Leaderboard

Or perhaps old puke from last night's bad drunk. It's still fun to make fun of memories of them worshiping over the porcelain god and speaking in liquid screams. Shot 'o Drambuie anyone?

What happened to all my prayers? Ya know, before I ever heard of The Way, I had no idea my prayers were second rate. Then I got witnessed to and found out I had it all wrong. See, you can't actually talk to God like you talk to everyone else. You have to have this special language, that they speak in the land of Lo Shanta, or God won't have a clue what you're talking about.And, God can't talk back to you either unless you talk to yourself in this new language lots and lots every day. And you have to make a real effort to expand your vocabulary, too, or God will just keep telling you the same stuff over and over again. Heck, I've even heard people say they prayed to God for answers (without the Lo Shanta stuff) and, presto, someone from TWI appeared to invite them to Twig and sign them up for PLAF. But, how can that be if God can't understand your prayers in the first place? So then my question is this: What happened to all those prayers I said before I heard of TWI?

In my former splinter group (River Road Fellowship as led by V. Barnard) we did the whole, "We are a whole world unto ourselves, isolated in a rural area" thing and it $ucked bigtime. Every perception of truth was tightly controlled by the supposed Apostle. It seemed to me like over time things just got more and more warped. Eventually it was heresy to even question such "apostolic" blunders as him teaching the Lord would return in 1997, 2000, uh er...2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, and even the latest that I've heard on the grapevine 2011. Not to mention the oppressive atmosphere which led to such unfortunate things as teenage girls announcing in fellowship that,"I am married to the Christ in Victor." So while they constantly congradulate themselves among themselves it seems pretty obvious to me that they only grew more dangerous and absurd as time went on. And I really don't think they'd openly come around GSC to state their case either, but they'd say it was because of all they "unbelief" here at GSC I'm sure. But I am certain it is because that even though they imagine themselves to be winners that they would simply be confronted for what they really are. I feel justified in my concerns for Caleb and his fellows.

So without further response from Caleb is this how we are to see this exchange end? One young man takes a small step out of the Mississipi swamp and into a place where all his beliefs he must knew may be challeged. He gives an aggressive post with a direct threat while claiming he will be handling questions and conversations for months to come. And as soon as a teany little bit of heat arrives he steps out, omly to never be heard from again. OMG I would like to believe the young man is o.k., but nobody that knows anything is saying! Is he being shut in with a bunch of faithful for a patented TWI style "healing". Are they mad at us enough to foolishly desire to carry out the feelings of anger in the initial post? Is the young man strong enough to realize that our intentions were for his own good and it may be that his "manoGod" is the real villain? But even though v2p2 may well be carrying out that role I do personally feel compassion for a young man who himself has been indoctrinated into his supposed life's purpose. TOO MANY QUESTIONS, TOO FEW ANSWERS. IMO

Maybe irrelevant.

Its not old news for all of us that gave our time & money for a rot hole place called THE WAY INTERNATIONAL that claimed to be a place of god. It wont be old news until no one is standing for or preaching their crap and that land in ohio is washed away . and only then will it be old news !!

Oh for Pete's sake, Oldies..........quit SPINNING and DANCING around the room. Wierwille BETRAYED his committed followers......most notably, the WOWs and the Corps. As a young and naive WOW, catcup's sister came face-to-face with wierwille's sexual motorcoach lusts and, when she refused, she was kicked off the WOW field. And, its well documented on the forums how wierwille went after the Corps women..!!!!! Can't you see the snare...??? With no accountability for his actions......and being in a well-protected, multi-tiered yes-men hierarchy, wierwille's TRUE COLORS CAME FORTH. What he was.......behind closed doors..... was his TRUE CHARACTER. Those public appearances were just showmanship......no more, no less. Wierwille BETRAYED "his" corps........he sold many of us down the river. He couldn't even keep his commitment to us regarding THE CORPS CHALET. He gave it to his top yes-boy......craig. There is a HUGE chasm between............freely serving God without compulsion as opposed to being manipulated by a con-man who winks with his eyes and speaks with his fingers (Proverbs reference). But hey.........if you, Oldies, want to stay deceived about "the good ole way-daze" have at it. Doesn't look like too many folks here are buying what you are attempting to sell.

I've been thinking about my perception of TWI leadership and sadly some of my impressions from the early days were far more relevant than I knew at the time. Playing politics to be in control. Handling serious biblical issues with spin, not substance. Deliberately destroying folks' lives for petty and twisted reasons. Deliberately demoralizing people into NOT THINKING FOR THEMSELVES. Turning a group of wonderful vital people into a group with about as much life as an ancient Egyptian crypt. Encouraging and thriving on the unthinking adulation that even a false reputation can bring them. Billing themselves as "THE MAN." Yes, even Rosie. The thing is that sometimes I wonder if these very human problems are still with us. Learned habits and feelings can be a real b1tch to deal with. And people still have a tendency to play politics and build a rep, not just in TWI, but even here possibly. I'd like to throw in just for good measure, please don't let folks who may still have these TWI patterns come after you in a multi-website feud of some kind. They probably are capable of wearing you down, they have a lot of practice doing so.

Not just that.. but isn't it LAME? Where's the "boldness", in him or in the *wonderful* administrators of the program? Lame, and pathetic.. they won't visit anywhere, it seems, where their arrogance just might be challenged.. anything that is said, is likely only to a controlled audience. I really think, When the old man, mac and the few other "old timers".. whoever they may be are gone, this little venture will turn into a wierwille brothers (and cousins) club.. there will be a whole family of numbnuts who can't be voted off.. if it ever makes it that far. why they want to sow that kind of corruption in their own family is beyond me..

Maybe "old hat" would be a better way to describe the organization.

"Stand clear of the wheat berries and no one gets hurt!"

Mark wa22ace,You are a smuck,Since when is lying acceptable?Do your research,in the old t it was probably some kind idiom God is not a liar duh,Remember if it aint true to fact it is a figure?In your case go figure.

LOL @ excie

I think you're doing just fine. we all process this stuff differently. I myself had to take a "total immersion" approach and embrace my anger... I guess one could say I'd cut part of myself off and locked it away in my head, and all the hurt and anger with it, and reintegrating was really hard and has taken years and I'm still not done. after years of therapy, I think I managed to get to a place where I'm as mentally healthy as I was before I got tangled up in twi, and thanks to some recent developments I'm looking forward to growing beyond that. when I first got here, it was the people who described things in strong terms that helped me the most to realize how bad it actually was, and that I'd better stop excusing what was done to me. that realization helped me leave twi when I was too scared to. the kindness of people like excathedra, doojable, bowtwi, belle, dmiller, rumrunner, and many others were so vital to my survival that I'm not sure I can actually describe how indebted I am to them. I was a right mess back then :) but that's why I'm not so concerned with the good times in twi. every memory of twi has pain associated with it. maybe someday it won't, but that doesn't really matter... I just I hope I don't ever lull myself into forgetting the bad and idealizing the good so that I can't hear a brother or sister's pain.

my god this makes me so angry! I heard that vpw choked up when he talked about his brother for years after he died. if that's true, then vpw entertained a big-time devil spirit. what hypocrites! my grandmother died when I was 18 and it took many years before thinking about her didn't cause intense pain and often tears because I missed her so much. grief is not devilish.

LCM a victim?!?! Isn't that like calling Goebbels, Goering, Mendele, Eichmann victims because Hitler ran the thousand year Reich?!?!?! CRIMINALS - ALL OF THEM! LCM is a criminal too; as are others of the depraved Vic's henchmen - as is most any one else whether in TWI, the local street corner, or on GSC who still follows and propounds the depraved Nazi's "teachings" rather than debunk his debaucherous and nefarious mythologies.

they use myspace, but as far as I can tell their profiles are all set to private. I don't know how much the "internet is a devilish place" doctrine still rules. there was one idiot coordinator in Washington (the guy who actually sealed my decision to leave twi because of his arrogant pontificating about the internet) who claims to be a web designer but I haven't seen any of his work so I don't know. I do know that when I was working as a writer via the internet, the area coordinator tried to pressure me to quit (via my now-ex-husband, the @$$hole didn't even have the balls to tell me to my face) but I wasn't about to give up the income I made working from home so I told my now-ex-husband that if dude wanted to tell me to quit, he could tell me to my face. I don't know where I found the brass to stand up to him... I guess it was knowing how close skated every month to the edge of keeping it together financially because of his low wages and no benefits from his "believer" employer. somehow, shockingly, that was the end of it.

has anyone run across twitter hashtags used by twi members? I know they don't like the internet, but I've seen some of them on myspace and it seems the younger crowd might not be as averse as lcm's old cronies.

was there a signed contract, though? the arrangement you're describing has not stood up in court. you cannot print in the materials any limitations on transfer after "first sale" (which actually means the transfer from distributor to customer, and includes gifts) and expect that to hold up in court. if there isn't a signed lease, the tapes weren't leased. if there isn't a signed rental agreement, the tapes weren't rented. if there isn't a signed lending agreement, the tapes weren't loaned. if twi did not meet the conditions of licensing their tapes, then they had no legal right to show up on anyone's doorstep and demand them back, regardless of what their records say. in fact, they shouldn't have been allowed to reclaim their property without a warrant and a sheriff in attendance, after proving in court that they had a claim on the tapes. you think that I think I'm an attorney? how do you know I think that? I asked how you know the tapes belong to twi and how they're avoiding the first sale doctrine. they can claim ownership all they want, but without a contractual agreement, copyright law prevails over twi's delusional ideas of ownership.

Pure fabrication ,never stated such what I said was I'm not by the way seeing many here posting. You seem to be claiming guilt exactly how many rapes did you witness? I thought so you read an opinion and decided you like it. Strawman--------I never claimed to have witnessed a rape. Do you have a vested interest in the controversy you incite?

Excuse me?? I didn`t misrepresent anything Dove, My post wasn`t directed to you...What *I* was referring to was a previous post where it was said that people here falsified facts. As far as what you personally choose to believe? I`d personally would call it something else entirely, however that is your affair....what I do have a problem with is attempts to silence peoples experiences and input because they don`t measure up to some goofy made up standard. I understand that in order to continue the masquerade that the ministry was a legitimate christian organization, or that vpw a genuine Christian, a man of the spirit...in order to feel validated in ourselves and our belief systems...indeed what we dedicated our lives to, we must try to eliminate the evidence of the fruit in his life...the clear indications that give evidence to the evil man that he was...I get it..I really do, I understand that one must make the folks with experience to the contrary as somehow untruthful...or lacking legitimacy, in order to maintain ones personal perceptions.

....aaaaand this information is considered *stretched* and *false hoods* because it doesn`t match up with the way one personally wishes to view things? I don`t like what you wrote, or the implications it has to my belief system..so there for you MUST be lying...eh? I personally find it surprising that people are willing to call hundreds of posters liars whom have related their personal experiences, people they don`t know all in defense of men whom the accusers in all likely hood never met or spent time with on a personal basis either. The finger pointers don`t know the guys they are defending any better than the people they are accusing of false hoods....yet it is a lot easier to label the victims as liars then to examine ones critical thinking and perceptions of beliefs. Thanks Pawtucket for providing these forums. I had been out of twi for 5 years before gs, and had really not progressed at all in my critical thinking, or changed my beliefs. It was in the discussion of ideas amongst other people that didn`t exactly think like I did, having to defend my notions, learning to read and consider others...that I began to heal, to question, to grow again. All I can say is that your efforts have made a huge difference in one family.

I only watched high country caravan on video. I didn't like them, but I never like hee-haw either, and they seemed like a direct rip off of the whole idea. yeah, like the SERMONS? those were just like side-show performances. talk about ego.

We used to have unannounced, middle of the night room inspections in Fellow Laborers. They even inspected underwear drawers to insure that everything was folded and stored properly. (Of course, it never was. <_< ) And yes, male leaders rifled through the females unmentionables. How nuts was all that?

"Yes they do being dead does not exempt one from accusation of libel" huh? if you're dead, you're not exempt from accusations of libel? I guess not, but I don't see anyone accusing vpw of libel.

It isn`t liable if what we say is true. I have yet to see any of the *consequences* you refer to in ten years of people reporting the abuses that would indicate that the experiences related, the books written, the broadcasts taped, were not factual and truthful. I`ll bet there are a good many of us that wish it all were a lie...that the mistreatment never happened :(

.you said it when you said their testimonies were non-factual. if they are non-factual, then they are fantasy, so must be fabrications or hallucinations. weird, this is what it says when I look it up: naturally synonyms for "convicted" would be of interest here if the word "convicted" was relevant.

Yeah potato, like Kristen Skedgil did as a victim of vpw`s criminal behavior. Dove, I have told of my experiences in twi here at Greasespot...I havealso related what programs I participated in....look it up if you are really interested. I have discussed the experiences of others who shared here of crimes the committed against them....that is what we DO here. What happened to us IS criminal whether the perpetrators are ever brought to justice or not :( That is telling *The OTHER side of the story* the one we were never allowed to tell while in twi. That is the stated purpose of this site. It seems as if you personally have waged a non stop campaigne to once again silence the victims.

Okay, Whitedove...........according to your admission (or silence) on GS posts, you have NOT gone wow, you have NOT been inresidence corps, you have NOT been staff at twi's hq, THEREFORE......you answers would be in RED See........it's not that hard to answer a question with either 'yes' or 'no.' :)

geisha, Forgive me for not engaging in total. Have you ever thought through how the relatives of Uriah, a literal murder victim, must have felt in how to receive the Psalms of David? I have, and a lot. Now it's time to move on to the goodies, that waysider is patiently waiting for. No problem Mike, much is going on in this thread. To be honest, no I have not given it deep thought. Now, in turn, have you considered what the bible tells us to watch out for in ministers and teachers? What to avoid? You don't need to answer, I realize you are making another point. I just hope you have thought through the requirements for a true minister.

oh my god, I hear angels singing hallelujah!!! I completely agree with your post, OM. I don't think that's ever happened before. the tax deduction of mortgage interest is a good point. I've saved thousands of dollars on state and federal taxes the last few years, and one of these days my mortgage will be far smaller than prevailing rents. good stewardship, indeed. pay a little extra up front, reap hella benefits down the road. that's what "investment" means.

Advise from a man who had no clue, whatsoever, how to honor his own marriage vows. His marriage would be the absolute last prototype I would ever try to use as a pattern for my own.

mchud please go back and edit your post with the ladies email and put the spaces back in it. That is done as a courtesy for people so they do not get inundated with SPAM mail from bots. there is software out there that searches for emails on line. I know you are trying to make it easier for people to email her but it was unnecessary just telling them to remove thte spaces is all that is necessary

Double income no kids,The Martins are like I was,It is a lie,They are obligated,threrefore in debt,They signed a lease,promising to pay for so such and such.Whilst I was in it was ok to lease a car,You still make an obligation.Tithing?buy into the lie... Twi lives in the eternal now,A house is an asset,sure you have to work on it,what do you not have to work on? Owe no man anything?context.....oh well twi makes up the rules..At least I do not have to ask anyone for permission.

rascal, I went back and read seaspray's posts from 5 years ago and the most offensive thing I found about him was his troll behavior and his insults to you and Raf. he's a vpw-worshipper and he's made that abundantly (in fact, MORE THAN abundantly) clear.

no, seriously. the coulters might be nice to look at (probably why they were picked to be the teachers), but let me tell you they drone on and on, and they droned on and on about celibacy if you're single, and also about how no believer should look outside of the household for a mate, and if there isn't a mate for you, then no sex, ever. since I was already dating an "unbeliever" who I really liked, I had a conversation with god about it, I can tell you. the class the coulters taught was all about what you can't do.

maybe that's why I don't remember it. I was required to listen to so many tapes in so many special meetings, they all just run together now.

It appears that you're indulging in a bit of projection again. I'm not yearning for much of anything right now, certainly not some sort of explanation for why a disparate collection of old fables doesn't "fit like a hand in a glove". I find religious arguments to be among the most absurd of mankind's endeavors, and yours especially so. Sorry...

So, if I'm understanding correctly, Almighty GOD, who created the entire universe and everything therein, who knows every being in that universe intimately, down to keeping a running tally of the amount of their operable hair follicles, can't quite seem to figure out how to push "print" on his cosmic Xerox machine. NO! It's up to us to play "magic decoder ring" and make all sorts of profound guesses and surmisings to determine what His will REALLY is. It's beyond absurd. Ludicrous, laughable, nonsensical, I dunno, words fail me when it comes to the yawning gap between religious dogma and basic, barnyard variety, common sense. I guess ultimately, none of us is doing anything really meaningful (when viewed from a perspective of "eternity"), but do you really wanta spend your few years on earth totally absorbed in superstitious nonsense? Yer choice I guess...

google adwords contextual ad placement is an amazing beast. I have to admit to deliberately placing words in forums sometimes just to see if I can change the ads that pop up. like if we started talking about the bagpipe player being scottish, and all the things scottish people do, like smoke pipes, drink scotch, play golf and wear kilts, what would the ads do? p.s. I apologize to any scottish people who may be present for so narrowly generalizing.

Potato do you hear it in your head in VPW's voice too. ?

ah! I vote for 5 :)

Well, I'll be dipped. I was drawing on my extensive research from a 7th-grade book report. I guess my memory isn't what it used to be. Geeze, I remember even pasting a picture of the statue in my little folio thingy. Now all I can find is a vague reference to a statue of Christ that Borglum planned, but never executed. Hmmm...

IIRC, that stature was carved by Gutson Borglum, the same guy who carved Mt. Rushmore...

oh hey you people who served as WOWs! don't forget where the money for class refreshments came from. I don't know if in the earlier days WOWs got any help from local believers, but when I was a WOW we basically had no contact, which meant as well as paying our bills, we were on our own for financing outreach and classes. we absorbed ALL twi business expenses related to their outreach program.

Now then can't we all pull up a cup of coffee and move on to a new subject. holds out chocolate cookies as a peace offering.

Lindy, WONDERFUL POST!!!! Many quotables in there~ Cheers buddy!

Excellent, SkyRider !!!!!!!!!!! I love it when you guys nail some detail of TWI's bs arsenal!!!!!!!!!!!

gingie lange ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha crimes of the heart cursewords worse crimes editing love, sissy

excellent!! question: where did that little thingy go that says how many members there are i was enjoying watching your tribe increase