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Or perhaps old puke from last night's bad drunk. It's still fun to make fun of memories of them worshiping over the porcelain god and speaking in liquid screams. Shot 'o Drambuie anyone?

What happened to all my prayers? Ya know, before I ever heard of The Way, I had no idea my prayers were second rate. Then I got witnessed to and found out I had it all wrong. See, you can't actually talk to God like you talk to everyone else. You have to have this special language, that they speak in the land of Lo Shanta, or God won't have a clue what you're talking about.And, God can't talk back to you either unless you talk to yourself in this new language lots and lots every day. And you have to make a real effort to expand your vocabulary, too, or God will just keep telling you the same stuff over and over again. Heck, I've even heard people say they prayed to God for answers (without the Lo Shanta stuff) and, presto, someone from TWI appeared to invite them to Twig and sign them up for PLAF. But, how can that be if God can't understand your prayers in the first place? So then my question is this: What happened to all those prayers I said before I heard of TWI?

In my former splinter group (River Road Fellowship as led by V. Barnard) we did the whole, "We are a whole world unto ourselves, isolated in a rural area" thing and it $ucked bigtime. Every perception of truth was tightly controlled by the supposed Apostle. It seemed to me like over time things just got more and more warped. Eventually it was heresy to even question such "apostolic" blunders as him teaching the Lord would return in 1997, 2000, uh er...2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, and even the latest that I've heard on the grapevine 2011. Not to mention the oppressive atmosphere which led to such unfortunate things as teenage girls announcing in fellowship that,"I am married to the Christ in Victor." So while they constantly congradulate themselves among themselves it seems pretty obvious to me that they only grew more dangerous and absurd as time went on. And I really don't think they'd openly come around GSC to state their case either, but they'd say it was because of all they "unbelief" here at GSC I'm sure. But I am certain it is because that even though they imagine themselves to be winners that they would simply be confronted for what they really are. I feel justified in my concerns for Caleb and his fellows.

So without further response from Caleb is this how we are to see this exchange end? One young man takes a small step out of the Mississipi swamp and into a place where all his beliefs he must knew may be challeged. He gives an aggressive post with a direct threat while claiming he will be handling questions and conversations for months to come. And as soon as a teany little bit of heat arrives he steps out, omly to never be heard from again. OMG I would like to believe the young man is o.k., but nobody that knows anything is saying! Is he being shut in with a bunch of faithful for a patented TWI style "healing". Are they mad at us enough to foolishly desire to carry out the feelings of anger in the initial post? Is the young man strong enough to realize that our intentions were for his own good and it may be that his "manoGod" is the real villain? But even though v2p2 may well be carrying out that role I do personally feel compassion for a young man who himself has been indoctrinated into his supposed life's purpose. TOO MANY QUESTIONS, TOO FEW ANSWERS. IMO

Maybe irrelevant.

Its not old news for all of us that gave our time & money for a rot hole place called THE WAY INTERNATIONAL that claimed to be a place of god. It wont be old news until no one is standing for or preaching their crap and that land in ohio is washed away . and only then will it be old news !!

Oh for Pete's sake, Oldies..........quit SPINNING and DANCING around the room. Wierwille BETRAYED his committed followers......most notably, the WOWs and the Corps. As a young and naive WOW, catcup's sister came face-to-face with wierwille's sexual motorcoach lusts and, when she refused, she was kicked off the WOW field. And, its well documented on the forums how wierwille went after the Corps women..!!!!! Can't you see the snare...??? With no accountability for his actions......and being in a well-protected, multi-tiered yes-men hierarchy, wierwille's TRUE COLORS CAME FORTH. What he was.......behind closed doors..... was his TRUE CHARACTER. Those public appearances were just showmanship......no more, no less. Wierwille BETRAYED "his" corps........he sold many of us down the river. He couldn't even keep his commitment to us regarding THE CORPS CHALET. He gave it to his top yes-boy......craig. There is a HUGE chasm between............freely serving God without compulsion as opposed to being manipulated by a con-man who winks with his eyes and speaks with his fingers (Proverbs reference). But hey.........if you, Oldies, want to stay deceived about "the good ole way-daze" have at it. Doesn't look like too many folks here are buying what you are attempting to sell.

he's constantly vibrating . . . we could harness the energy of a billion of these . . .

Then look at the stiffi's.. they started their organization, on the basis of the worst arrogance that had ever embodied the way.. didn't sit around and read their bibles and stuff for a few years.. "we've left Egypt, and WE've got the GOLD...." and it got worse.. "personal prophecy" and all.. embracing the austerity of momentus..

oh it can indeed. the key is remembering to hate the right people when it gets chilly in the night. my ex for instance. or lcm. I get real warm fuzzies thinking about his fall from power and it puts me right to sleep, all cozy. vpw I somehow can't derive the same warmth from, unless I remember he died possessed by a devil, but somehow that doesn't seem like enough. hehe, I forgot I had that listed in my interests :)

Yeah, lying is the best way to put your best foot forward in a Christian organization.

:lol: ok I think we need to look at this like the whole kingdom of heaven in pfal.... you know, the fascist dictatorship/twictatorship was OVER ALL but each administration has its own special features that make it its own brand... like the victatorship was pretty consistent, but the next dictator morphed from a licktatorship to the loytatorship (god the horror) and then there's RR, who I really don't know what to say about at all because we mostly seemed to be sheep milling about under her direction as she stripped away most of the concentration camp features and left us only with the underlying theology that developed under previous dictators. when she croaks, do you think there will be anything democratic about twi? I think it's likely it will continue on as it is, just becoming less and less charismatically run until it fades into non-existence.

Hmm ok if we go with beavis and butthead "dick-tater" and we also consider the amount of sexual activity in the upper echelons of TWI (who we throw into a large canvas sack) and we consider how they have fragmented into dick-tating over multiple splinter groups with chips on their shoulders at each other group - do we have a bag of "Lays" dick-tater-chips? Sorry Potato - if you hadn't posted that long NOOOOOOoooooo I wouldn't have allowed the voices that come through the fillings in my teeth to end up here.

this is very typical and is rooted in vpw's motto "I have no friends when it comes to the Word", which is at the root of the dogma that you can only be "like-minded" with people who believe exactly as you do (twi doctrine) and to spend time on close relationships with people who you aren't "like-minded" with is to unequally yoke yourself with "unbelievers" and is a waste of your time and will hold you back from realizing your potential. however, I found after 20 years in twi that the only real friends I had within the walls of Zion were the fringe elements who valued real friendship regardless of twi status and who didn't consider people a waste of time if they didn't want twi, and once I made a few friends on the outside, I came to see how damaging twi's dogmatic approach to friendship can be. now put yourself into the equation. if she decides to throw herself into twi, she will have no friends when it comes to the word, because that's what you have to believe to be like-minded with the group. anyone not like-minded on twi doctrine can't be a real friend, including you. you will be regarded as a roadblock to her realizing her potential. that's a harsh truth, but since I left during the "new, more tolerant, softer" twi of Rivenbark, I know firsthand that the doctrine is ingrained in twi and in order to abandon it, the entire culture based on vpw's writings would have to be eradicated, but no one is going to do that. no one can change twi because twi IS vpw at its core. sorry, just realized I used Wayspeak and although you've had plenty of experience with twi I shouldn't assume this particular colloquialism was ever explained. being inside the walls of Zion was one of lcm's teachings, meaning you had to be completely within twi (God's chosen people), adhering to every doctrine, obeying every commandment of leadership, to be safe. otherwise the devil would getcha. yes, lcm was that arrogant.

If it's me, RumR, you may feel free to have at it. I give you my permission. :) Frankly, I think after a few years on here we can predict what a lot of people are going to say before they say it. Exsie, my friend (and I know you know I"m your friend and vice versa), I do see the evil. It's just not all I see. I'm glad you love me anyway, because I sure love you! 'Scuze me. I must go to prepare my next sermon.

Linda you need to re-read my post and untwist the knot in those panty hose. I gave examples without giving names - per your post-suggestion however - face it - if I gave examples of posts then the names (S/Ns at least) are revealed. I'm a little beyond that thank you. Brainfixed can see it on his/her own, not see it, or ignore me. Either way my evening marguerita tastes fine thanks. I accused no one. I implied no one. I pointedly stated that some people still have their pulpits. Brainfixed made it clear he/she was not interested in what sounded like "way exhortation." That is not veiled and neither was my response. It was about as plain as Dick, Jane and Sally - oh don't forget Spot.

it is possible, yes. difficult, absolutely. you can't erase it, but you can become more like the person you want to be every day. if that weren't true, I would be very different today. we grow new brain cells every day. how they grow depends on what we do. passive wishing doesn't change the structure of your brain. I saw myself becoming my mother and I changed it. my ideals are very different from hers. the way I treat my children is very different from the way she treated me. it took years and years and years to get her voice out of my head, but I did it. and the soul thing... people use it differently here, depending on how they believe. forget twi and their doctrines and think about whether "soul" or "self" are valid expressions for what you want to say. since I'm now a spiritual agnostic, I use them more or less interchangeably and twi can suck it if they don't like it.

Perhaps that's what we all seek post-TWI - the real me. I used to be quite honest, but I learned to keep my mouth shut and do as I am told. That's starting to loosen up a little bit. I still fear any kind of personal entanglement with a church-type organization - our community group leader keeps talking about really getting to know each other within the group, and I think that's scary, for me anyway. WG

I sincerely hope that by RIP you meant Rot In Puke not Rest In Peace...

Hey, get this. I just googled ""The Way International" scumbags" and my thread in the "new member" section was number six on the list. Thanks for the inspiration Tater! Take Care.

how do you know that? I already asked if there was a signed contract stating terms of use. if there wasn't, then twi only had first sale rights and after that they cannot control where a tape or set of tapes or a syllabus goes.

Would an admission by Wierwille himself be enough? You see, Wierwille made such an admission when he graphically described, to a roomful of people, how he fondled an adolescent, to "teach her about sexuality". In Ohio, that is, what was referred to at that time, as Statutory Rape. Today, there may be other crimes that are attached to it as well, such as sexual molestation, unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, etc. ************************************************** Ohio Statutory Rape Laws Having sexual relations with a person deemed a minor is illegal in most states. This crime is called statutory rape. While the crime is not violent and does not usually take place under threats of physical force, it is considered a violation of the victim. The reasoning behind the law is that a person who is considered to be a minor is legally incapable of making an informed decision to consent to sex. Ohio statutory rape laws define a minor as anyone who is between the ages of 13 and 16 years old. So, my work researching Ohio statutory rape laws revealed that if you are 18 years old or older, and you engage in sexual activity with someone between the ages of 16 and 16 who is not your legal spouse, you are committing the crime of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. This is a felony in the fourth degree. However, if you have sexual relations with a person who is age 13, 14, or 15 and you are less than four years older than that person, you can only be charged with a misdemeanor, according to Ohio statutory rape laws. A more serious charge will be leveled against you if it is determined that you engaged in sexual activity with a person between the ages of 13 and 16, and you are 10 years older than the victim. Some states are very specific in regard to the gender of victim and offender. However, I did not find that Ohio statutory rape laws specify the gender or either victim or offender. Therefore, you can be charged with or be a victim of this crime regardless of whether you are male or female. Ohio statutory rape laws carry significant punishments. The crime is considered a felony and can result in severe financial penalties or time spent in prison. Source: http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/2006/10/21/oh...tory-rape-laws/ ********************************************************** Ohio statute 2907.04 Unlawful sexual conduct with a minor (A) No person who is eighteen years of age or older shall engage in sexual conduct with another, who is not the spouse of the offender, when the offender knows the other person is thirteen years of age or older but less than sixteen years of age, or the offender is reckless in that regard. Source: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...19103318AA06GAt

You are mistaken. About Us Welcome to the GreaseSpot Cafe! GreaseSpot Cafe is a gathering place, bringing together people and information. We welcome all who have an interest in The Way International, including former followers, current followers, and those who may have friends or family members who are involved. Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery. We want people to be able to make informed decisions regarding their past, present, and future affiliations with The Way International (TWI). Whether you are standing with TWI, thinking about leaving, trying to help someone else get out, or looking for support from others who have left, we believe the information here is highly relevant and well worth considering. Look at our WayDale Documents section and see for yourself what information has come to light as a result of lawsuits against TWI, resignations of various limb and branch coordinators, letters from Martindale to the Way Corps regarding controversial issues and policies, notes from actual Way Corps meetings, and much more. Consider the longstanding patterns of conspiracy at the trustee level, questionable doctrines and practices, ongoing cover-ups, and sexual abuse of numerous women at the hands of certain TWI leaders. It's no wonder that TWI is desperately trying to shield their followers from this information by warning them off the Internet. We think that if you give this information an honest reading, you'll see that you haven't been told the whole story. Browse through our forums and read what people are saying about their experiences in TWI. Find old friends or make new ones. Elicit support or offer an insight. Share information or simply read and consider. The opinions expressed here are often passionate and while disagreements are not uncommon, the online Ex-Way community is a great arena for conversing and connecting with others. You may get caught in a food fight now and then, but unlike TWI, GreaseSpot Cafe is a place where questions are encouraged and people make up their own minds.

I have read of two separate accounts of girls being given drinks and waking up in VP`s bed on the motor coach. John L*nn confirmed that drugging and rape went on. Damned right I`ll call vpw a rapist, a serial sexual predator and pig.

wouldn't dogged adherence to information proven untrue be APEITHEIA?

Interesting that you would use a logical fallacy to support your opinion. Is the only difference between you and the lawyer who wrote the piece is that you aren't tired of people calling you on your stance?

Wierwille having tantrum about drinking?!?!?! Hello kettle, this is pot. You look black to me. And the drunken sexual predator VPW was not performing?!?!?!

Stepping up to the microphone is a bit like stepping up to the plate in baseball. You have to have a certain confidence that you are about to hit one out of the park. Call it ego if you want but it is a vital part of making a connection with the audience. Some people are so incredibly talented, like Eva Cassidy, they can pull it off without that confidence. They are the exception. Taking away that confidence is like telling a right handed batter he has to bat left.

I was not afraid to have another viewpoint. What I was afraid to do was say it out loud. One didn't dare say one had a different take on a verse or concept. Once I was out of TWI, talking and arguing about doctrine became like the "endless geneologies" of the bible. I found I was placing far too much value on doctrine and not simply keeping it simple. I don't do that anymore. Recently, I find myself getting annoyed when there's too much focus on how correct the Christian religion is and how superior it is to other religions.

why is it, WD, that you feel you have to one-up rascal all the time? you didn't go through corps training, and her statement was correct. spouse corps didn't go through the grueling 3 years of slavery (my entire apprentice year was easier than the week I spent in residence), from what I could see being spouse corps was at the worst like being apprentice corps, where you live to do the leadership bidding day and night and constantly prove yourself good enough... yeah I can see that. BUT, you didn't get the in-residence experience by osmosis just because you got married.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. This whole thread is about the presumed innocence of VPW?

I don't believe that they've technically accused vpw of a crime, either because he's dead, or the statute of limitations ran out, or because they exercised their freedom not to press charges. this argument is academic, since vpw is dead. he cannot be "accused" in the sense that you're using, because he can't be taken to court. therefore, no one has accused him of anything. however, their testimony IS documented. once it's published, it's a document. at this point, in order to declare their testimony untrue, it would require taking them to court to prove libel. until someone produces a guilty verdict against vpw's victims showing that they've libeled him, their testimony stands.

why should I have reason to doubt what excathedra or Kristin have testified?

ok, I misunderstood you. after re-reading your opinion, I see that you mean one can take the testimony as factual OR non-factual, not that you take it either way. actually, what I did was paste in the entire definition, so that people could see that guilt is not just a legal term, but can be a point of fact. I did not cherry-pick the definition that fit my argument, which you did, and apparently improperly cited as well. for what?

I don't see anybody trying to prove they are "holier-than-you-know". What I see are some people who are offended by this statement: "You see we did not select VPW to "put it all together" and distribute it around the world. God selected Dr to get the job done and it got done. Anyone hurt in the process would have probably gotten hurt some other way, and either way God is there to help them get healed if they want it."

thanks you guys. I would have done it myself if I hadn't had to fly out the door, and I would have hated to see that post disappear before it could be discussed. so gawd (watch out, wayspeak in use) in his foreknowledge knew that women would be raped and drugged and the time and money of good-hearted people would used to buy toys for the man of gawd, so it MIGHT AS WELL HAVE BEEN VPW since it was going to happen anyway, and gawd would heal them if they wanted it and were meek enough so it's ok, and we all gotta remember that AT LEAST WE GOT "THE WORD" because obviously, only vpw had the right heart to receive what gawd had to tell him. excuse me while I puke.

David Blaine breaks world record for holding breath. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...b=Entertainment I'll bet even he wouldn't be foolish enough to think he could hold his breath until he got a logical answer here.

thank you :wub: I'm a huge proponent of a woman having her own accounts, too. and, if she's SAHM, then part of the paycheck should be deposited in her personal savings. why? because she has no social security, should she find herself divorced and disabled, she has no unemployment insurance should she find herself divorced and unemployed, and she's put her own professional skill-building on hold to care for family, ensuring that she'll re-enter the job market at a lower pay level. and in my experience, most guys are not decent about paying alimony. they grumble about every cent, when there's no way their ex-wives can go out and earn for themselves what they need because those wives did everything possible to put their husbands in a position to provide for the family. my own experience was even worse. my ex is a deadbeat, pure and simple. if I'd had 9 months of living expenses in my OWN account, me and the kids wouldn't have ended up homeless.

according to vpw, the original sin was masturbation. according to lcm, it was homosexuality.

"You're the best" While on one level I think that this is a true statement, it at least implies kindness and support on Wierwille's part. I'm certain that everyone who was bullied or otherwise abused by Wierwille and his chosen kids think that he lied when he said it. (edited for clarity)

I think it already did-----figuratively speaking.

WARNING!! Off topic for this thread But----- I must interject that I most definitely saw people "kicked out". Early 1970s in Cleveland. Mainly people with mental health difficulties. One young lady (student) was escorted to the door during the "Christ in you" session and told to never, ever return. She openly (and vocally) questioned something that was being taught Was her behavior out of line for group participation?. Probably so, if you use Way standards to gauge appropriateness. But bear in mind that she was mentally ill and seeking help. Leadership claimed she was "possessed", being used by the adversary to disrupt the movement of Gawd's Word. At least 4 or 5 others come to mind as well, though their exits were nowhere near as dramatic as this one.

If entire teachings were copied word-for-word, and if Wierwille's writing style was sophmoric, then yes, the writing style of the original author would necessarily also be sophmoric. I've seen side-by-side comparisons that showed how certain sections of books by Stiles and Leonard were copied pretty close to word-for-word, with a few terms or some words changed here and there, but have not heard or seen anything to indicate that whole chapters, books or teachings were copied wholesale. As far as error-ridden teachings of Wierwille being derived from others; sure, that does mean that the underlying teachings are error-ridden as well. Although I've seen several instances where Wierwille used Bullinger to back up his teachings, but misunderstood or misrepresented what Bullinger actually wrote, thereby changing the teaching.

When martindale was ramping up the "genuine suspicion doctrine"........after the homo purge (1994,95) was the destructive evil purge, then the unproductive evil purge, then the debt purge, then the dissenters purge who didn't agree that the word was over the world, then the full-time corps purge, then the not-crossing-over-the-bridge-to-the-promised-land purge, etc. Yeah................stupeeedd leader yields more stupeeedder region guys. Of course..........today, the smiles and invites are back. But golly gee..........who in their right mind would ever want to go back to this cornfield cult???

cheranne, are you an artist? I am, and my kids are way into graphic novels. graphic novels seem like an ideal format for telling some of the scary and ridiculous sh!t we went through. I've been drawing a lot more fantasy art now that I'm out of twi. no more farmers and cornfields or leafy trees and rainbows... at least not without scantily clad winged creatures hovering about.

I'm gonna pass on clicking the link because I remember ck too well now, but I encourage newcomers to do so. ck's writing is a good example of what happens to your brain when you make a man into a god. anyway, ck's "reviews" have been appropriately commented on, so I doubt anyone looking at buying the book would take them very seriously.

I thought SkyRider's post # 1 was very insightful - in its entirety...OldiesMan in his post # 8 quoted only the first part which I highlighted in bold red and then he said this about it: Just couldn't let this one sneak by…It figures you'd pick out the first part of SkyRider's post that describes only the innocent looking tip of this life-sucking iceberg [a.k.a. TWI]. While TWI's doctrines and programs are powerfully effective in their indoctrination and manipulation process – it is an insidious operation in that it has a gradual and cumulative effect – one that takes TIME – which was the point of the rest of his post!…I'll give you the benefit of a doubt – perhaps you don't see the correlation. Some people don't see the relationship between years of smoking and having major health issues either…Perhaps they're stuck on figuring out another mystery they've stumbled upon – that people who have more birthdays live longer.

yo mama's so hairy, Bigfoot took a picture of her

is anyone copying or archiving this dang ?

WHAT!!! you are not going to spoon-feed us we need MILK not MEAT ha ha ha ha ha ha love you