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Or perhaps old puke from last night's bad drunk. It's still fun to make fun of memories of them worshiping over the porcelain god and speaking in liquid screams. Shot 'o Drambuie anyone?

What happened to all my prayers? Ya know, before I ever heard of The Way, I had no idea my prayers were second rate. Then I got witnessed to and found out I had it all wrong. See, you can't actually talk to God like you talk to everyone else. You have to have this special language, that they speak in the land of Lo Shanta, or God won't have a clue what you're talking about.And, God can't talk back to you either unless you talk to yourself in this new language lots and lots every day. And you have to make a real effort to expand your vocabulary, too, or God will just keep telling you the same stuff over and over again. Heck, I've even heard people say they prayed to God for answers (without the Lo Shanta stuff) and, presto, someone from TWI appeared to invite them to Twig and sign them up for PLAF. But, how can that be if God can't understand your prayers in the first place? So then my question is this: What happened to all those prayers I said before I heard of TWI?

In my former splinter group (River Road Fellowship as led by V. Barnard) we did the whole, "We are a whole world unto ourselves, isolated in a rural area" thing and it $ucked bigtime. Every perception of truth was tightly controlled by the supposed Apostle. It seemed to me like over time things just got more and more warped. Eventually it was heresy to even question such "apostolic" blunders as him teaching the Lord would return in 1997, 2000, uh er...2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, and even the latest that I've heard on the grapevine 2011. Not to mention the oppressive atmosphere which led to such unfortunate things as teenage girls announcing in fellowship that,"I am married to the Christ in Victor." So while they constantly congradulate themselves among themselves it seems pretty obvious to me that they only grew more dangerous and absurd as time went on. And I really don't think they'd openly come around GSC to state their case either, but they'd say it was because of all they "unbelief" here at GSC I'm sure. But I am certain it is because that even though they imagine themselves to be winners that they would simply be confronted for what they really are. I feel justified in my concerns for Caleb and his fellows.

So without further response from Caleb is this how we are to see this exchange end? One young man takes a small step out of the Mississipi swamp and into a place where all his beliefs he must knew may be challeged. He gives an aggressive post with a direct threat while claiming he will be handling questions and conversations for months to come. And as soon as a teany little bit of heat arrives he steps out, omly to never be heard from again. OMG I would like to believe the young man is o.k., but nobody that knows anything is saying! Is he being shut in with a bunch of faithful for a patented TWI style "healing". Are they mad at us enough to foolishly desire to carry out the feelings of anger in the initial post? Is the young man strong enough to realize that our intentions were for his own good and it may be that his "manoGod" is the real villain? But even though v2p2 may well be carrying out that role I do personally feel compassion for a young man who himself has been indoctrinated into his supposed life's purpose. TOO MANY QUESTIONS, TOO FEW ANSWERS. IMO

Maybe irrelevant.

Its not old news for all of us that gave our time & money for a rot hole place called THE WAY INTERNATIONAL that claimed to be a place of god. It wont be old news until no one is standing for or preaching their crap and that land in ohio is washed away . and only then will it be old news !!

Oh for Pete's sake, Oldies..........quit SPINNING and DANCING around the room. Wierwille BETRAYED his committed followers......most notably, the WOWs and the Corps. As a young and naive WOW, catcup's sister came face-to-face with wierwille's sexual motorcoach lusts and, when she refused, she was kicked off the WOW field. And, its well documented on the forums how wierwille went after the Corps women..!!!!! Can't you see the snare...??? With no accountability for his actions......and being in a well-protected, multi-tiered yes-men hierarchy, wierwille's TRUE COLORS CAME FORTH. What he was.......behind closed doors..... was his TRUE CHARACTER. Those public appearances were just showmanship......no more, no less. Wierwille BETRAYED "his" corps........he sold many of us down the river. He couldn't even keep his commitment to us regarding THE CORPS CHALET. He gave it to his top yes-boy......craig. There is a HUGE chasm between............freely serving God without compulsion as opposed to being manipulated by a con-man who winks with his eyes and speaks with his fingers (Proverbs reference). But hey.........if you, Oldies, want to stay deceived about "the good ole way-daze" have at it. Doesn't look like too many folks here are buying what you are attempting to sell.

All, If you saw the thread started by a new grad of the SOWERS program, there seemed to be a swarm to fresh meat. It kind of made me feel like an old grad at twig when (miraculously) a new person showed up. 13 pages (and counting) of posts but only a few from the guy who started it. He seemed to drop off fast and we just kept it among ourselves. Have we talked TWI to death yet? Or is there still more or new things to cover? As an irregular poster, others here may be better able to answer. JT

I wonder if they like millet.

This new SOWERS program is proof that the beast's heart is still beating. It's like a stinking time machine, designed to go back and start The Corps and Fellow Laborers all over again. They seem to have completely disregarded any valuable lessons that might have been gleaned from TWI history. Sure, it looks harmless enough today, but what assurances are there it will turn out any different when, in fact, the very principles it has been fashioned after have been proven to be defective and dangerous? In fact, how do we really know it isn't a phantom effort of the monster that spawned it? TWI is still current news, IMO.

Thanks Act2 and congrats to you. It is exciting and daunting all at the same time but I am glad i have this opportunity.

hmmm

i want to say something really disgusting regarding rosie but i refrain i love you potatorchip ;)

i can't help but to hear that quote running through my brain every time i read this thread. how does it go? "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke) many "good" twigites stood by silently and did nothing when children were repeatedly smacked with the wooden spoon, and many "good" people stood by silently and did nothing when people trying to help those children were "reproved" loudly and frequently and at length with terrible insults and dire threats to their well being, and many "good" people stood by silently and did nothing when their "sisters in christ" told them what was happening in the motorcoach, and i could go on and on but i just can't help to wonder how "good" those "good" folks really were at the time?

Really? An individual cannot distinguish himself from the TWI he was raised in? All his thoughts, beliefs, actions emotions etc are lock step with TWI? The best they can hope for is to suppress their twi nature? No healing, no growth, no understanding, no escape? Interesting. Is that what you are doing, Bolshevik? Suppressing?

thank you to the anonymous writer for taking the time to put that together. it sounds like the same twi I left in 2006, only more mummified.

some were abusers well before 18, and some who've left still are abusers, so what? and sure, as far as we went along with the witchhunts and unreasonable expectations, as far as we carried out orders from above, we unfortunately were party to the abuse. it's called abuse by proxy, in case anyone is interested. I personally was used to browbeat people into doing "the word", after being browbeaten myself. was I a victim at the time? yes. did I victimize others? I tried, thinking I was saving their wayward souls. thank god most of them didn't listen to me. one girl I know went through a lot of emotional abuse of which I'm afraid I was minimally involved, and if I ever see her I will apologize for it. she put up with a lot at the hands of the branch coordinator who was a snake, because she wanted to be right with god. the rest of my guilt is composed of sticking my nose in other peoples' business by order of the limb coordinator or obeying the M&A's. does that make me an abuser, right here, right now?

wtf is innocence or the 60s 70s 80s 90s 00s people believe what they want i did as much as it was screwed up i'm done analayzing it although i might share some of the weird sheeet that happened with that old man who was the man of god in my day and mind

it's when you put a hash in front of a word, like #theway or something like that, so people can find tweets about certain subjects. I read it's been successfully used for organizing rallies and other stuff, like the #amazonfail hash brought attention to amazon's catalog mess. made me wonder if there are any hashtags in use for twi subjects.

I agree with you, but I bet he could have passed a lie detector test if he was in his narcissist zone. I think he had delusions of grandeur and creating stories was no different for him than giving a factual account of what he had for breakfast.

We're talking about a dead person. I can't dig up his grave or desecrate his body. I believe that's the extent of his personal rights. The people of the US have rejected the alternative to a presumption of innocence within the context of the LEGAL system's jury system. The media tries to avoid bias by using the word "alleged." They are under no legal obligation to do so. There are ethical reasons to do so. They often report on facts as they see them. In any case, ordinary citizens in ordinary circumstances aren't held to that standard.

What or whom exactly on this site has zero integrity?

Likewise with the in-clusion of the graphic photographs that were accompanied with comments like, "Aren't her breasts just bee-u-tee-ful!" and a lengthy list of street terms for genitalia and sex acts that he chuckled and made light of. What exactly is "neutral" about showing photographs of various shapes of penises to 13 year old girls? And just so we don't deviate too far from the theological implications, Wierwille taught that the original sin was that Eve masturbated "and did eat, and gave also to her husband with her; and he did eat." He offered no scriptural verification. He said "Father showed it to me." (paraphrased)--- "You'll just have to trust me on this one." Then he took it a step further and said that masturbation was not acceptable for married people unless it was a mutual activity, because it could not give true release from sexual tension. I guess you were supposed to read between the lines. He also said "Intercourse is always a spiritual event." Who would be a better partner in a "spiritual" experience that the MOG, himself? He was setting the stage for his future indiscretions. My point is that he deliberately gave theological significance to sexual release.

I know there are devout christians who are inclusive, not exclusive, who have empathy rather than egotism regarding their beliefs. so yeah, I wasn't implying that faith in jesus is equal to being afraid of looking at other points of view. the brand that twi taught us was so incredibly exclusive. we were taught to avoid anything that contradicts it, in other words to reject it as a valid source of information. without even considering it! because you know, Eve got in trouble by considering the words of the serpent. so you keep a certain rule of faith and practice intact, with no room to adjust according to Truth. because, you know, we can't know the Truth, just bits of it. so how will we learn more, if we isolate ourselves from the rest of the world? because the MOG has a direct line to god, so we're covered, people! when Mike made his call to get back to vpw's teachings as they concern the "only rule of faith and practice", I realized that what he was saying was probably simply no longer valid, even for those who continued to embrace christianity. I mean I assumed at least some of you guys decided to expand your understanding of your own faith, and that's what I'm finding to be true in the responses here. it applies to christians and non-christians, really. twi demanded narrow-mindedness from all of us. that's just not healthy, no matter what your spiritual beliefs.

that's why I was really relieved to get kicked out, and we didn't even have a fire drill.

it doesn't matter, it still won't be a good comparison unless the criminal is dead and the victims are living and telling their stories. this looks like a red herring. we already established that this is an academic exercise since vpw can't be taken to court, we've already established that he's not entitled to presumption of innocence, nor does he have constitutional rights, and we've established that his victims DO have a constitutional right to free speech and if they're lying, they can be taken to court for libel. so why haven't they been? in a historical case, eyewitness testimony is acceptable, especially when there are multiple witnesses, and in the absence of contradictory evidence, there's no reason to declare the words of these women libelous.

My post was in response to this statement: "Show me a confirmed charge of a crime and I'll shout it from the roof tops."

exactly. that would be a tall order indeed.

must correct myself, should not summarize research when running a fever! criminal court should read civil court!

I often times find that it is worthless to argue with some people over points that do not apply here like sophmorically missapplied legal standards. But I do remember what I do when I perceive that several thugs are trying to make one woman shut up. Do you remember White Dove?

or the frog just gets so used to the hot water it doesn't realize when it starts to boil. maybe some people loved it for the high (I think my ex did) but most of us didn't didn't have an addiction. we just learned to keep our heads low to survive.

Who says you can't claim guilt in public comment? This is a made up standard you have set for everyone else here. There is no law that says we can't make a statement of guilt. Where is that law we are being held to?? There is no law that says we can't know something to be true unless a guilty verdict is rendered. There are no mind police stopping us from deciding for ourselves the truth of a matter. For some of us, credibility and eye witness accounts supporting each other, mingled with our own personal experience, are enough to decide what is true. If it makes you feel better to call it "just" an opinion. . . do so. . . call it FRED if you like. Doesn't make it so. . . just makes it what YOU want to call it. It in no way negates the reality behind the conclusion. I don't really think I want to hear the other side of rape or drugging. It is pretty self-evident it is an evil and criminal act. The act speaks for itself. Loudly. Now, if you are calling peoples accounts into question as to truthfulness. . . just say so. Quit hiding behind all this legalese.

Exactly the point you comment based on accounts YOU READ yet you question validity supposedly based on second and third hand accounts where you arrived at that conclusion one will never know. Somehow that voids my right to post yet insures yours ,in your mind. Your commenting on something you have not witnessed, yet seem to think I need to post under different rules. My documentation at the least is the same as yours first hand accounts. At the best it is my own observations first hand. Somehow you seem to think I need to be geographically present to have a valid post ,yet you can simply read an opinion and follow along the crowd and we are supposed to not question your validity.

This is a statement that was made recently on another thread regarding people who were adversely affected by the depraved lifestyle of VPW. ********************************** "You see we did not select VPW to "put it all together" and distribute it around the world. God selected Dr to get the job done and it got done. Anyone hurt in the process would have probably gotten hurt some other way, and either way God is there to help them get healed if they want it." *********************************** I'm personally at a loss to understand the sort of rationalization it would take to accept this statement. Any comments?

Geisha is of the female persuasion. . . did you just call me clueless, a devil, take the Lords name in vain, call me self-righteous and a failure all in the same breath? You must be tired now. LOL Classic!

I would like to submit at this time that vpw's obvious psychological issues compelled him to negate the validity of internal debate because of his own discomfort with it, and to construct an artificial system requiring submission to a single source that replaces multiple centers of reference (or learning). such a system eliminates the need for critical thinking. it eliminates the need to study other points of view. very convenient for the lazy.

There's statements made that at least imply the snowstorm can be disproven based on records of the weather. That would be great for simple arguments with simple people. This may not be true and it's misleading. Just want to clear it up.

Why would it be? I post here to expose the evils of twi...

It seems to me they are trying to sound a little "mainstreamed." I think their sympathy for those in debt is a little overstated. I never got anything but hard-core grief from TWI. We had to sell stock in Pepsi-Co to pay hospital bills because we didn't have insurance when I was diagnosed with IDDM. This after getting screamed at by the MiniMOG for owning stock in the first place. On the other hand, the little WC queen who was our twig leader had elective surgery and wrote it off to Medicaid. Different rules for the elite, I guess; we were not offered that option by the MiniMOG of the hour in that city. The last year they had the ROA, we were ordered to attend. Never mind we didn't have any money and I had been diagnosed with IDDM and a long car ride would be a bad thing for me. So we used a credit card to buy airplane tickets and went, stayed with family, and truth be told, spent as little time at the ROA as possible. Later on, we applied to go to WIB. Well, as our finances were investigated it was discovered by the detectives of TWI that we had (GASP!) used a credit card and were in DEBT! The stuff hit the fan and spread all over the place. How dare we use credit cards and then expect to be allowed the privilege of attending WIB? Who did we think we were! Well, they knew who we were, we were Ananias and Sapphira all over again and they had no idea why God hadn't struck us dead. "Hey, you know what, we never tried to hide the fact, and besides you TOLD us we had to go!" That as you may guess, fell on deaf ears. The money was returned to us (how nice) along with an ABS check upon which I had written the wrong month. That was also an exceeding great sin. Did I understand what a huge inconvenience that was for everyone concerned, including Mr. HA himself? That was such a worldly thing to do! Who in hell did I think I was? Once again, weighed in the balance and found wanting. And I have a word for Ms. Martin: We own a home and pay a mortgage because THAT IS WHAT WE DECIDED WE WANT TO DO! And you know what, Cookie? When we are dead and gone, our child can raise his family in this house, and his children can remember when they played on our porch! Who says you have to rent? Who says you have to have a cult telling you what to think, say and do, anyway? WG

The secret chamber pot in PFAL

I don't see you starting WW3 WD. However... Edited again - I stand corrected by potato - it was your question to skyrider I was referring to.... Since you and I disagree on a number of issues - please do not take my comments as starting a personal WW3 with you either. I think the obvious answer to your question for potato is rather simple. You know, as well as I do, that a significant percentage of people (I'd wager some number >50%) were wrapped up in that organization enough to feel guilty about NOT doing as told. This is not isolated to TWI - you can trace it to plenty of other organizations - even those non-religious - heck you can extend it to some 1960's hippie communes. There have been plenty of posts here from people "admitting" to feeling bad about decisions/actions they made/did "back in the day." It is clearly not an isolated phenomena - and those who posted that thinking here on GSC tend to have a more activist mentality. I wonder how many people felt that way and just drifted off without coming here - without posting - and did whatever (hopefully got a life). I have a somewhat personal perspective on rebellion within the ranks - since I had a reputation for it even while still in but I am not going to post it publicly. Edited for some grammar errors

not really looking for the old "if you're not a christian, you're going to hell" type of discussion. courtesy of Mike: the 1967 version that we all heard in segment 31 Session 7 of THE CLASS: vpw contends that the truth must be your only rule for faith and practice. the problem is, the truth is defined by him in PFAL, thereby making PFAL and all derivative teachings the truth which must be our only rule for faith and practice, thereby limiting us to one source for truth: twi. it's the pitfall we all fell into if we stuck around more than a couple of days. truth isn't so easy to get an absolute grasp of, IMO. the final arbiter of truth is god, I suppose, if god exists. or math, if god doesn't exist. while we wait for the answer to that unknown, I wanted to explore vpw's assertion that we must have one rule for faith and practice.

do we think humpty was an egg for the same reason we think jesus was a white guy with blue eyes? illustrated children's books?

signs of a liar: I saw a lot of these in vpw's videos, and even more so in lcm's.

I noticed in session three, he scratched his nose 3 times with his right hand at 3 different points during the teaching. I think that means that his words in that session were completely, completely, completely blessed. Shhhhhhh!!------It's a secret. The DaVictster's Code Coming soon to a theater near you.

LOL I knew somone would make a joke

Well, I've mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating. "Snowstorms" were a frequent fallback position for Mr. Wierwille. In 1975 he and Howard were supposed to be in Seattle for a branch meeting or somesuch, and most everyone in the state had converged on a party room at some apartment house in the 'burbs of Seattle for a chance to get a glimpse of His Holiness. We were all packed into the somewhat smallish room breathlessly awaiting the appearing of God's Chosen One, when we got an announcement from the Limb Leader (J#e Co#lt@r) that His Emminence, with great regret, had called from Reno and informed us all that he and Howard were snowed in and NO planes were flying out at all. Gosh, He sure wanted to be there with us, but, sometimes these things happen. (A few lines from PFAL about "believing" and such like flipped through my mind, but HEY!, this was TMOGFODAT, and you know how much the DEVIL was trying to thwart His efforts!) Anyway, the Blessed DOCTOR did a little teaching over the phone, and we paid our respects and homage to His Greatness, and the meeting sorta petered out. Well, the next day a somewhat more cynical member of the congregation called up the airlines to see if there really weren't any flights out. Lo and behold, NONE of the airlines had canceled ANY flights due to ANY sort of snowstorm in Reno. When this news was communicated to the limb, rather than thanks for the investigative work, the lowly believer got his azz handed to him (Can't ya just FEEL the LOVE?). I've since heard of at least two other similar incidents from other ex-Wayfers, and read of one or two others in posts here or on WayDale. It seems like it was just a stock excuse that our Father-in-the-WURD utilized, maybe when he had a bad case of the Brown-Bottle Flu or somesuch. I wonder if the Missus still believed them?

A self imposed hallucination,brought on by delusion of grandeur,not mentioned for years.... Then,when in the mogfot,he introduces it,Why some will think I am crazy.... Always have to have somthing that no one else has,showed how spurtual he was,smoking like a fiend,drinking drambuie from a coffee cup.messin with the women,he was supposed to protect..... He was full of it,a snakeskin oilman promisin the world...knew it was to good to be true.... Daddy told me a good one,from his reachin up to the cookie jar,he spoke to me audibly,wonder how long he sat on that one?

Pretty strange way to interpret that post .