Leaderboard

This is just my opinion, but I think the real cornerstone of Wierwille's plan was to establish a base of followers who would consistently tithe, providing him with an endless stream of income. No work required beyond cashing the checks. Funds resulting from sale of the classes and books were icing on the cake. That's why "Christians Should Be Prosperous" became the focal point of those early sessions. There was no internet, no instant access to information. Who was ever going to find out the true nature of a scheme cooked up by a guy in the middle of rural Ohio? Or so he might have thought. I don't think he ever envisioned how big the ministry would become, but, when it did, he was perceptive enough to recognize the opportunities, some quite sinister, unfolding in front of him. It snowballed out of control and overwhelmed him. It grew like a cancer. And here we are today.

I think it's cute that opposition to this thread is confined to "I refuse to read the thread or post a rebuttal on a thread whose subject interests me greatly, but I want to debate a factual point. Not any that actually matter, I want to call into question what year Mrs W said vpw first claimed the 1942 promise." Nothing on any significant point, not on anything that's beyond any reasonable refutation. Usually, that means the rest of the points are unassailable. Why else would someone FIXATE on the exact year vpw began expounding his lie, and not whether or not it was a lie, and why it's so obvious it's a lie? But this way, someone can PRETEND they refuted something of substance, and flee the thread, never acknowledging the rather obvious point that they're now basing their life on something PROVEN to be a lie. "I'd rather have an ugly truth rather than a pretty lie." - Me.

Who is my neighbor? Jesus explained that one with a parable about a Jew who needed help, and, of all people, one of those stinking, lousy, no-good, low-down SAMARITANS was the person who helped him. Jesus made it clear that SAMARITAN was the one who "was neighbor" to the Jew who needed help. It was such a noxious concept that the Jew who asked him couldn't bring him to say "the SAMARITAN who helped him", but said "the one who showed mercy on him." Jesus, having told the parable of the Good Samaritan, said to do like that guy. "Go and do thou likewise" is how the KJV renders it. So, who's your neighbor? According to Jesus, you can't exclude that Muslim, that Jew, that Black guy, that Asian guy, that Pakistani, that African dude, that redneck, that smug anti-Christian, that Pastafarian, etc. Jesus set the standard very high, and said to do that.

Jesus summarized the entire Jewish law with love - love for God and love for others . He did NOT simplify the law. There is a difference! Jesus spoke of the first and great commandment and the second is like unto it - to love God and to love neighbor - He said the entire law and the prophets hang on that. That is a summary- He indicated all prohibitions to sin - i.e., to NOT commit adultery, to NOT lie, to NOT steal, etc., He recapitulated all the main points of the law showing how they all relate to loving God and neighbor. In PFAL wierwille taught it WRONG! He simplified it - he said Jesus reduced all the law down to just 2 commandments. To reduce or simplify is to eliminate or lessen components. Knowing about wierwille’s moral depravity, it makes perfect sense he would like to blur boundaries and obfuscate what is right and wrong. There’s no specifics…it’s left up to the individual to determine what is right and wrong….That’s how he could commit unconscionable acts and rationalize sin out of it by saying “anything done in the love of God is okay” Jesus didn’t teach THAT! He summarized! It’s like He drew a big umbrella over all the specific prohibitions and said the love for God and others are the prime directives - that love covers every scenario! If you love God and others you should not commit adultery, you should not lie, steal, etc. Love was the basis for the law! The summary does not eliminate any components - it merely gives the big picture of how we conduct our lives should always reflect loving God and others.

I think these ECNs that Mike goes on about must mean EGREGIOUS COUNTERFEIT NOTICES. Where he highlights one egregious counterfeit doctrine and announces its replacement (which is probably some other egregious counterfeit).

There was a strong sense of religious duty that kept me involved for 12 years in the pseudo-Christian cult, The Way International Rock of Ages 1978 Bob M. was walking the grounds recruiting attendees to go W.O.W. He asked me “Have you thought about going W.O.W.?” I replied, “I’ve already been W.O.W. a couple of years ago – and I’m married now and have a cat.” Bob snapped back “You know you can go W.O.W. again – with your experience you might even be a W.O.W. coordinator this time.” When I talked to my wife about going W.O.W. again (FYI she was in my W.O.W. family btw, got married after our year was up) she looked at me like I was nuts – and thank God, she talked me down. And it’s not like we had a spectacular year – but we stuck it out – being faithful to a commitment - and that's a big deal in TWI. Further down the road we decided to go in the 11th way corps program. But my wife got pregnant and so we put that off for a few years – finally going into the 11th Family Corps. FYI - we had to leave our cat with her dad - cats are not considered corps material. ~ ~ ~ ~ It was not like I was getting so much out of PFAL, or any of the other classes, TWI-doctrine in general, or any of their programs. Most of that was bait-and-switch stuff anyway – and some biblical-sounding fluff thrown in for good measure. The beneficial claims and hype held so much promise – but it was all relative to my believing. ~ ~ ~ ~ Probably the biggest factor that kept me involved in a pseudo-Christian cult for 12 years was a sense of religious duty. A motivating awareness of responsibility. I felt I owed something to God and the ministry that taught me “The Word”. Even before I took PFAL I began to develop a serious concern for getting back to authentic Christianity. The girl that got me signed up for the class shared from the TWI-authorized book one of wierwille’s significant supernatural experiences. On page 178 of “The Way Living in Love” she read this to me: “I was praying. And I told Father outright that He could have the whole thing, unless there were real genuine answers that I wouldn't ever have to back up on. And that's when He spoke to me audibly, just like I'm talking to you now. He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others. Well, I nearly flew off my chair. I couldn't believe that God would talk to me.” The subtle implication of wierwille’s claim shifts the Bible’s mandates away from the text-in-context and onto wierwille’s assumed authority. Considering wierwille’s claim that God would teach him “the Word” as it had not been known since the first century – it is worth noting that Christians back in that apostolic age had no Bible – the New Testament had not been written and the Septuagint was not circulated. But that never occurred to me back then. There’s a lot of factors in play to keep people trapped in a pseudo-Christian cult – and they vary depending on one’s makeup, needs and goals: love-bombing, intimidation, isolation, fear of punishment from God, fulfilling the need to belong, etc. A sense of religious duty is a real sneaky one though. I brought it on myself – I had a strong drive to follow the direction of wierwille and LCM because I felt it was what God wanted me to do. Even if some stuff didn’t make sense to me or was inconvenient – I figured that’s what faith was all about. ~ ~ ~ ~ See also: Why People Stay Trapped in Cults: Survey | Cult Escape (cult-escape.com) 10 Psychological Reasons Why People Join Cults - Listverse 5 reasons why "normal" people join cults - and why they stay - The Tempest Why Did NXIVM Members Stay? The Psychology Of Cults (refinery29.com) Why do people stay in cults after they have joined? - Quora

I've posted something of the following previously, but it was a while ago and not on this thread. The radio program that I mostly listen to has, or used to have, a programme between two people of diametrically opposite views, often about quite controversial subjects. It was a series, with different people and different areas of argument, each week. The first party, let's say A, had about 10 mins to state their case, during which the other, let's say B, could not interrupt. I think they could ask limited questions afterwards to clarify, but not to argue. Then B presented their PoV, again without interruption (and if B got to ask a few questions of A, then A got to ask a few questions of B). But argument as such was not allowed; participants could not say the other was wrong. And then, A and B had to summarise the view of B and A. Each other party could say whether they thought their viewpoint had been properly summarised, and if not, why not. Usually, the summaries were accepted as reasonably accurate about the other party's PoV. Finally, A and B were both asked if the discussion had caused them to change or moderate their own view. And in every case, they said hearing the other party's view had caused them to consider things they hadn't before. Nobody, as far as I know, changed their mind, but they all moved to a more middle place than they had been previously. Listen with interest to what others say, people. They just might have a point, or something you can learn from.

http://www.alexandrastein.com/uploads/2/8/0/1/28010027/cults_final_ttsep16.pdf

Be sure to stay tuned for upcoming editions of award winning Greatest Secrets In The World Today. . In future episodes, we'll take a more detailed look at the cryptic, spiritual symbolism of The Poky Little Puppy and The Little Engine That Could. (Be sure to get plenty of popcorn ready.)

It's actually a relatively short T-Bone post. And the WordWolf post is short, also. You could easily read them while dropping a deuce or eating pistachios.

Would this be an African or a European swallow?

Mike bit in purple. Seriously, Mike, after all these years - dacades! - you have never considered that loving your neighbour as yourself is like loving God? And to make sense of that, you have to put it in a "Deep Ponder Folder" (where you will conveniently forget all about it?

I stayed too long out of a sense of religious duty. I wasted many years of my life trying to support change from within. I think all the RNR brethren feel the same. They finally got a collective letter together and appeared on a video so they could be shunned by TWI. Suckas don’t want no help suckas don’t get no help. Go cry come home somewhere else TWI losers.

Believe Utopian lies, and become a pack mule.

Pleasure Island. Story old as time.

VPW's words are completely emotional. There's no logic. It's a guilt trip. "I'll teach you if you teach others" Oh boo hoo. I was constantly told to serve because I was thankful. . . . For what? I'd ask. . . . . I was told I would understand when I'm older. I was given the turd. There's no basis to "The Ministry" whatsever.

Thanks for confirming the whitewash I have been telling you has occurred. It never contradicts pflap68 because it's the same class with material missing...why would they remove material mike? Why would the greatest class on earth need to have hours of material removed? Could it be that the way internationl is still coverin wierwille's plagaristic tracks? Or maybe they remove outright lies and inconsistencies...thats what a lot of the editing has been about over the years. Clean up the works of a narcissisctic drunk who used the Bible for his own greedy base gain and lusts.

No they don't. Eternal truth: thou shalt not commit adultery....oh yeah wierwille changed that to spiritual adultery and ran through every young lady he could get on the motor coach. Yeah - eternal truths don't change - unethical people change the Bible to suit their lusts.

Rome conquered Judea. So a whole book is titled "Romans". Nobody has a problem with that? Sorry

Not much of a teacher, either. Not really. Left confusion in people's minds. And not much of a teacher because he couldn't even teach himself to believe for what he needed.

It also played to his strengths. You can plagiarize your way into faking a TEACHING ministry, but you can't plagiarize your way into a HEALING ministry. He could take the work of others, stand up, and with the skill of the barker fake a teaching ministry because it looked like he was really a teacher. He couldn't use the skills of a barker and plagiarizing the writings of others to fake HEALINGS. That's often been a weakness of twi, and some point to that as why its founder wore glasses when he supposedly could believe for perfect eyesight, and he died YOUNG of extensive cancer as the result of decades of chain smoking and heavy drinking when he supposedly could believe for perfect health.

This may be a new idea TO YOU, but it's an old idea to nearly 100% of everyone who ever took a pfal class, because they all left twi and did something else. Many left to join smaller, decentralized groups, if only for a time. So, let the people who care more about the organization than about what God said and what the Bible ACTUALLY said have the buildings and pay the rent, and the rest went off to serve God somewhere else. This is an old idea that goes all the way back to the book of Acts and the School of Tyrannus.

In short, if you love God with everything you've got, and love your neighbor like you love yourself, nobody has to tell you not to steal, not to kill, etc,- BECAUSE YOU'LL AVOID DOING THEM WITHOUT SPECIFIC RULES. vpw's own rule was different: "If you love God, and you love your neighbor, you can do as you fool well please." He started with loving God and neighbor, but changed that you would follow the rules automatically (which is interesting because he mentioned that quickly in passing.) Why the difference? vpw went in small steps from what the verses said, to what he WANTED the verses to say. He went from "If you love God and love your neighbor, you'll follow the whole law automatically" to "so long as you love God and love your neighbor, you can do as you fool well please" to "anything done with the love of God is pure" "to the pure, all things are pure" etc. In small steps, he went from "obey the law out of love" to "you can do whatever you want and it's fine". Why did he want that? He wanted to justify doing whatever he wanted and wanted to pretend God Almighty was fine with that. It's no different than when he told Jim D00p that God Almighty was fine with ORGIES and tried to use a verse to justify it. For those who wonder where you've seen the small steps before, it's a very old technique. Someone went from "Has God said 'you shall not eat of every tree in the garden?" step by step to go from "you shall surely die" to "you shall not surely die". Whose techniques did vpw copy? BTW, did vpw do that knowing enough about the Bible to know whose work he was copying (knowing he was copying the devil's playbook to rationalize the sin he himself wanted to do) or was vpw that deficient in the meaning of Scripture that he ripped off the devil's own techniques, techniques mentioned right in pfal, out of ignorance? It was either one or the other. (Usually, when there's a conundrum like this, where all possible answers are bad, someone makes a personal attack on me, so it's probably time for that very thing now, for those arriving late.)

We're talking past each other, again. When you say greatest commandment, I think of Jesus's explaining of the greatest commandment: love God; and like it, love your neighbor as yourself. What you are talking about, I understand, but please know, your word choice can be confusing for those of us keeping it simple. Please consider an alternate wording of the greatest commandment simplification. Because, what you are talking about is NOT the greatest commandment as revealed by Christ. Maybe sin simplification would be more throughly effectual. I never, ever, believed there were any saint goodydoody types to be found. And I never heard nor considered the guilt trip of being habitually guilty of the greatest sin. That guilt trip was first taught to me and laid on me in the class. My heart isn't desperately evil. Paul wasn't accurate about EVERYTHING. I never heard the guilt trip of falling short of the glory of God, and was never taught I was dead in sins until I took the class. You can't tell me I live my life focused only on my pleasure and not focused on God. You, nor victor, nor the priestly class, nor the clergy, nor Saul of Tarsus, knows anything about me. This is religious, gaslighting dogma that I reject. We can agree to disagree on your religious, doctrinal dogmatism.

Remember so-called boy bands from the 90s? Backstreet Boys, NSynch, et al.? You know what would be a great name for a boy band in 2022? Specifically, a Christian boy band.... a Christian rockabilly boy band.... a Christian rockabilly boy band specializing in weddings... The ECNs

Yes. Finally we have conclusive proof that Green Bay Packers fans are born of the seed of the serpent. Led by their father the prince of darkness Aaron Rodgers. The princes QB ratings are down though.

WHO did Jesus look on with anger? Who did he address angrily? WHO are you to even have the most minute awareness of anyone's hardness of heart?