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My FC would proudly admit that if victor was wrong and was going over the cliff, he would follow him right off the cliff to his peril - that’s how commuted he was to his beleeef in vpw. I think he wanted me to be impressed. I was. I was impressed with how incredibly stupid such an admission sounded.

I was surprised to receive the card today myself.....a measly 25 years or so after being marked and annoyed. What was missing though, was the apology. Not that an apology would make me believe that the real me would be welcome there. It would be quite nostalgic to check the old place out again though. However, nothing would be worth going back to putting on the blinders. they no doubt picked this program up from the Roman Catholics, who have been promoting a 'come home' program for some time now.

Says the guy who stops reading posts because they don't match twi's doctrine. You're being hypocritical don't you think?

VPW presented such a wager in PFAL. "If heaven doesn't exist, we will have had the best time going." Well, it hasn't always been what I would call the best, so I think we lost the wager.

He healed no one. His was not a healing ministry. His was a Biblical search again ministry. There is no reason to believe that story is true. Victor paul wierwille did not establish himself as a man of credibility or integrity. it's as fantastical and bullshonta laden as the 1942 fraud.

These matters being presented are akin to questions we may all have encountered when witnessing to someone for the first time all those years ago. How is it possible to be no closer to being able to provide logical answers after having 50 years to ponder them?

If you read the link Chockful provided their definition of cult is much broader than that. You're describing a subset of cults they refer to in a Christian context. https://www.gotquestions.org/cult-definition.html

Mike you didn't respond to what I wrote about the word "hid" being used in comparison to being "taken up or received." Instead you begin again with the being hidden doctrine - "Besides hidden" - and then you moved on to a difference verse (2 Cor 5:16) which speaks for itself. "Seated at the right hand of God" and "Appointing us as his ambassadors" does not mean Jesus is hidden. I know from scriptures about Jesus before the ascension and I know from scriptures about Jesus after the ascension. You keep talking about his personal presence because it supports twi's doctrine of the presently absent Christ.

The Ever UnPFLAPable Completely and Totally Anti-NumbSkullable Companion to Grease Spot Café Threads Under the adjunct entry for The Absent Christ? thread: Absenteeism = the practice of regularly staying away from the point without good reason; absenteeism has been viewed as an indicator of poor individual performance, as well as a breach of an implicit contract among all Grease Spotters involved in the discussion. Absentia = the term in absentia is an adverb or adjective that means in absence - used in legal systems when referring to someone being absent from defending their own case. May be used as in the form of disfigured speech – “I’m there in spirit but not in truth” – meaning one is online trolling the discussion but frequently attempts to undermine the conversation. Absolutely = A cognitive distortion; Often pronounced in a thick punch-drunk-Rocky-Balboa-speech pattern to convey the sentiment “When it comes to PFAL, I have no friends”; Absolute thinking is an unusual difficulty or inability to acknowledge and/or cope with life challenges and/or criticism of wierwille or PFAL; It can be a symptom of serious mental or physical illness such as depression anxiety, or even diseases such as Parkinson's, or simply that the absolute thinker has a hidden agenda. Absolved = Free from blame, guilt, or responsibility – something every cult-follower desire for themselves as well as the cult-leader; the jury is still out on exactly why some fans of wierwille want this – the attraction may be that one simply finds a religion that allows you to do whatever the hell you want irresistible. Absinthe = Absinthe is a Kool-Aid infused ‘spirit’ derived from several plagiarized works, eclectic ideologies, delusions of grandeur and includes select pages from How to Win Friends and Influence People; its greenish-black color resembles the PFAL signup card and is flavored with wormwood a star that fell from the sky and polluted the fountain of living waters. It is unknown how many cult-followers will suffer as a result.

Like I said, you're more interested in being right than transmitting any message from God.

You have captured the essence of Way Theology. Well done.

Well you have to believe it will work before you can believe it will work.

I am thankful for your resilience. And for your voice. Because both of those things MATTER greatly.

Dead on with what I experienced.

Im 100% with you on the entire post but the part I put in bold was exactly where I found myself once I fell out of favor and hit the exit back in 2008. It all resulted in sever depression, anxiety, and alcohol abuse to numb it all out. While I take full responsibility for all of my actions, especially the alcohol abuse, I was set on a path of ruin from the get go. And because of the law of believing garbage I was unable to accept loss and move on --- that would have been a negative confession. And if it took all of that for me to be where I am today then so be it because I have a REALLY good life and am very thankful and happy. Peace!

Here's some philosophical wisdom that readers may or may not relate to, but I see it definitely as concerns twi: There is SOOOOOOOOOO much more knowledge about so SOOOOOOOOOOOO many, many things in life today than there were when we were enchained by TWI.

Rearranging the deck chairs on the HMS Titanic didn't count as change, either. (Even without using string to arrange the chairs.)

So on the cults topic this is nothing new the Way has faced this criticism from forever, back when I joined and before and up until this day. I remember when I was in how I used to think it was so unfair to compare the Way to all these other groups like the JWs, Scientology, the Mormons. I used to think “they don’t know us at all we are nothing like that”. Why did I flip my views? I guess over time I gradually started paying attention more to the actions and results of the group and less to their sales pitch. And personally I experienced my average fellow community member caring more for my life as proven upon many occasions than the leadership of the group I had dedicated my life to showed. When you look at the fruit as Jesus taught and tune out the static it starts to emerge more clearly. A small exclusive group at the top. No outside oversight. A free proselytizing force. Money flowing one way on the wings of obligation. The fleecing of the sheep for as much wool as exists on the coat, regardless of the upcoming winter for the sheep. Hamster wheel like activity for self perpetuating motion. Excommunication and shunning. Isolation, even from others of similar cause. All those things exist in common for cults. The schtick varies, from L Ron Hubbard and the self enlightenment path, to Joseph Smith and his golden tablets from the angel Moroni and sessions in a hat, to a Watchtower Society of the 144000 in the end times, to a fictional snowstorm and a promise to know scripture hidden since the first century. Everybody has got a pitch. What happens in the delivery of the goods though?

Mid report. So far I am enjoying this cult class from the city on a hill church. I always wondered when in the Way why it got lumped together with other groups like JWs, Mormons. In this class The Way was first. And delved into logically then other groups. It is a feel thing. The tactics and methods of operation are uncannily similar between these cultish groups, regardless of what it is they are teaching, a fundamentalist Bible, an angel delivered golden template, or a method where the mind heals itself and people ascend. They all abuse underlings similarly. They all set up hierarchies of Pharisees who only deal with other Pharisees and insulate themselves from contact with lay followers. They all lie. They all excommunicate and shun others. They all subject followers to menial tasks to show them their place in the hierarchy. They all control the money. They all set up free proselytizing programs that they don’t participate in. From what I am learning in this series I think this is what Jesus meant when he said you know people by their fruit, not their words.

Cults S4 the Jehovahs Witnesses ok watching this session I think the JWs are like the big brother example to the Way in how they function. They have 1.3 million followers, a lot larger in the US than the Way ever hoped to be - the Ways numbers in USA were like 2500 or so - even if that was 4x underestimated the order of magnitude of the JWs is a lot larger. They have 13000 Kingdom Halls built around the world. Everything is centrally controlled in NY the Watchtower society. They put out the awake publication which features teachings by the “diligent and faithful servants” who are the Watchtower society. They keep all central records and tabs on people. Local Kingdom Halls are driven by leadership who schedules service for the people - door to door witnessing. Members are supposed to do duty witnessing for Jehovah. Their org structure is pretty much a sales quota type of activity organization. The Way also set up the USA trunk office to function in a similar fashion with Sales quotas, all set up by a former salesman Bo Reahard. Instructions today carry the same kind of direction - endeavor to run a class at designated times per year - 2-3 classes - quota based expansion by free labor proselytizers. Organized service or witnessing accosting people in malls in public and door to door. I participated in this nonsense for over 20 years. All to press play and magnify “The Teacher” vomit. Heres the link