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Kids still get the short end on that one. One could argue that "others second" includes your kids. Well sorry - a little too general for me. My kids have their own category of priority and it is not generalized by the word "others." I'm down to three sandwiches left, two children and me - then comes a knock at the door - hungry neighbor begging for food - a polite smile followed by "Sorry you're outta luck knocking on this door" Then my kids and I eat the sandwiches. Substitute my "best friend" for hungry neighbor. Same response. Substitute self-centered arrogant self-proclaimed MOG from TWI demanding "his due" and that I should put the MOG above the children...and the response does indeed change a little...something like "F*** you. Go starve twit."

I didn't hear it used in twi either..... ...but in "Lifelines", that was attributed to vpw like everything else. "God is first, others second, I am willing to be third." Which is rather rich to attribute to a man who was never willing to be SECOND, let alone THIRD. To him, serving God was equated with making vpw first. Never in such direct terms, however...

I would have loved that ROA. Children bring us all back to earth.. it is hard to be thinking bogus ethereal thoughts while changing a diaper. I love it when there are kids around .. they are so much fun.

After reading that last little bit there is something that I'd like to add. Since Christianity is a walk of faith and not by sight there seems to be an element of proving all things that is necessary. So for the unbeliever it is not sound to call voices, hunches, or miracles God. I do believe however it comes out in the wash that truth will pass the test of believers or unbelievers, because truth stands on it's own. So on one level there needs to be a split between those that hear God and those who don't. But on another level there is room for people with clear consciences to agree that some such statement is either true or false, no matter how they feel about God. In practice it seems to me that a little meekness and a slow fuse is a good thing on both sides of that bacic, inevitable disagreement. And a healthy sense of humor helps a lot too. But if someone chooses to believe the scriptures, then perhaps the saying, "Let God be true, but every man a liar:" may apply. As a believer I just have to root for those of you who believe in God. It seems to me that if according to this saying from Rom ch3 it is innevitable that we will find out that God is true, but at times teachers and our own selves will be wrong. Since what this verse is discussing is ourselves overcoming the inevitable judgement of God this mindset will be important to us. With our own mistakes and sin, it seems that the kind of things that are being discussed here involve years and even decades of our own lives in the working of these things out. If it is any comfort, even after the things that Job suffered he managed to come to a place where God was magnificent in his eyes. And for the folks who deny anyone hearing God, I would simply answer that whether or not you believe in the specifics of these possibilities that from a perspective of the human psyche I tend to be more comfortable around folks who see themselves as small and the universe to be big; humbleness is much more pleasant than anyone who thinks that "they are the truth." And the one and only who I believe deserved to say, "I am the truth" was also my example of humility! (edited for grammar)

While I agree that it's not a pretty sight (horrifying is the adjective I'd use for the treatment of that young man), I disagree that "this is the natural progression of things" or that one must "abandon reason" to embrace faith. My Christian faith isn't even on the same planet--no, not in the same universe--with behavior like that shown in the video. We get your point, George. You've made it often enough that my two dogs ought to be able to get it. I think even my cat (she's a little slow) is catching on.

Actually, the TWI version was "Dick and Jane BELIEVE For The Potty To Flush Itself"

Yeah – good one Excathedra – you've inspired my funny bone - so here goes... TWI writing style in various business contexts.... Late bill notice: "Greetings & blessings to you in the name of our wonderful Redeemer, who paid in full the price for our sins. Unfortunately, he didn't cover your cable bill." Response from IRS to a TWI follower's income tax filing: "Please be advised altering tax forms is a serious matter. It has come to our attention that on your 2007 tax form, you crossed out 'married filing separately' and wrote in 'together with yet distinctly independent of'." Notification of an out of stock item: "We are sorry to inform you that one of the items on your order is presently unavailable due to factory cutbacks. In an effort to lessen cost overruns to our shipping and handling departments impacted by filling partial orders we have decided that your entire order will be held in abeyance until every item on your order is completely, completely, absolutely completely available." Investment opportunity ad: "Mining company seeks investors to finance re-opening of abandoned mine believed to have several untapped veins. We look forward to working with those who have the love of gold in the renewed mine in manifestation." Advertisement for how a new wonder drug works: "The memory pill works both thoroughly and throughly by ineffable greatness in accordance with the exceeding abundantly above and beyondness of all other redundancy in the great principle with and/or without distinct exception. The memory pill remembers the memories you should remember. They now become the pill's memories, and the pill's memories remind your memories of things to remember, then it becomes manifested along memory lane as you remember. It's just another amazing breakthrough from Lokbox Pharmaceuticals." [ps. this upgrade takes some serious getting used to...]

everything of god is by design, if you are walking in the spirit -- quote something from bible goes here -- if you are not walking in the spirit, you are, by choice, not walking in the spirit and by now you should be walking in the spirit you are a mature believer -- quote something from bible goes here -- it saddens me that you have turned away with your hatred and hostility toward the one true god and ministry -- quote something from bible goes here -- lovingly, in his service, -- bible quote goes here --

Gayle Sayers said The Lord is first, my friends are second, and I am third in the book I Am Third. There was a movie about it too, called Brian's Song. I think that was the name, anyway. But I don't believe I ever heard it used in The Way. Maybe it was, I just don't remember hearing it myself.

You are absolutely right...there is no wonder why they would bolt at 18...The twi culture has always been repressive and controlling towards young people...kids were never allowed to be kids. I feel for you guys that were raised in twi...not quite the same as eating a lot of lsd and listening to Jerry Garcia.

The last ROA('95) there was a huge number of small children. When you have an RV full of preschoolers, someone can't volunteer, someone can't hit all the meetings and you might bring your own boxes of mac & cheese for meals (I know we did!) I think that was one of the reasons they canceled the ROAs--demographics had changed so much.

For sure........ANYTHING that separated you from having your butt in a plaf-class chair was of the devil.

This is all content in the Christian family classes taught. okie and donna had their class they taught, which had this content of course. But there was no place in teaching segments for where the harem fit in, or the side relationship with r0s@lie o'donnell. So that was replaced with a more vanilla version taught by the C0ulters which is where it's at now. The funny thing is when people actually try to live those concepts. Try missing a class due to children or spouse priorities. Then you'd hear some blockhead sputter about how the class is really part of your relationship with God and guilt you into it. Really? I thought that was my reading / prayer time. The funny part - okie and donna's class talked about toddlers and bedtimes and suggested like 7:30 or 8 as a bedtime. Oh, but that's during fellowship. Again getting to hear blockheads sputter. In reality the best way to live a Christian family is to avoid TWI. Read / teach the Bible at home, be an example as a parent and keep people out of your family business. You mean except for when they had a policy where no Corps or Staff could get pregnant because they couldn't afford it.

Oh yeah.....what a crock. Imagine how challenging it would have been to cart around five or six kids to every twig, every branch function and rock of ages? Sure, I remember two or three families like this........but it certainly wasn't the norm. And, when corps were assigned to different locations every three years.......moving kids from school to school would be crazy instability. Of course, I suppose home schooling would have its advantages in this type of lifestyle. Children have a way of bring you some reality to life. :)

That is just really really heartbreaking!

And yet we were supposed to have a "quiver full" of children.

I always go back to when Dorthia W. talked about her and vp going to India, and how she was forced to give up JP, her 6 mo old son, so as she could accompany vpee on his journey. I believe she said that was the hardest thing she'd ever had to do. I think it's very telling statement on how important vpee's own children were to him, it says it all. I could not conceive of doing that to a child of mine and handing him over to someone else at such a young age. You could tell from what ms w said that she didn't want to do it.....so sad really.

Does anybody remember the teachings when wierwille thought that russia was going to take over? How we were told that if it was a question of survival, let the kids die...that we could always have more, but that we would be the only repositories for the word and that must survive. How about abortion being required for babies conceived while involved in a twi program? Children were always expendable in twi.

When our kids were small but in primary grades they recieved a year,s end reward--tickets to an amusement park--for good behavior and good grades. The tickets were for the same time as HHF, so we reported our plans to not be there but take the kids to the park. Our HFC was adamant about us going to HHF instead. Can you imagine telling three little kids they couldn't have their reward because we needed to get to HHF? Other kids from the school were there at the same time, it was like a party.We went to the amusement park and had rides, cotton candy, the whole deal. That night hubby and I drank a six pack of beer and had the first really long talk about TWI we'd ever had, and a few months later we left. That was a real eye opener for Hubby.

On so many levels............twi-cult life is just regimented boredom and hypocrisy. In hindsight, I tend to see how this poverty level lends itself to all sorts of emotional abuse..........few friends, wayfer-hypocrisy zone, no music lessons, few school events, always sitting in twig meetings or "babysat" during classes, once turned 12 then expected to sit in class, always on the threshold of being reproved, very little freedom for childlike fun, etc. etc. etc. What about when the twi-teenager turns 16? A car to drive? Movies? Dating? Video games? Cell phone? School sports and events? In running to every twi activity for 15-20 years.........few twi parents had any extra money for their kids. Just scraping by for so many. No wonder the kids bolt when they turn 18.

spiritual abuse emotional abuse mental abuse physical abuse child abuse

I have a friend that grew up in TWI. Before I knew that, she told me that she endured more pain than 5 people should ever endured. At the time I had no idea what she meant. From what she told me (and she was very vague) about her pain. As she told me, my thoughts were that she was "abused". I took it as physical. I never really thought about the abusive "childhood" that she went through. I could sense her emptiness and aloneness. My eyes shed a tear for her often. I think it's hard for her to understand that I'm just trying to support her. I can't imagine how hard of a life she has had. since her parents were in it and she grew up in it. It must be hard also because if she choose to make some changes as an adult, she puts at risk her family. It has to be hard.

or Benatars "Hell is for Children"

Im not a card carrying christian believer or even a true believer of any type that I can tell or define, but I have to admit that i agree with geisha. I might word it differently but the belief is basically the same.. Im never getting any 'voice' thats says "blah blah blah"--do such and such" , but life unfolds, observations are made, ideas connect and there is a certain guidance or path somewhere underneath it all --sometimes i see it, sometimes I dont. Sometimes big ideas (or very simple ideas) just slam into me for no reason other times things just seem to run in a subtle undercurrent. I dont know if I'd call it God talking to me or something else but generally the experience is there if Im not too locked up in my own little world and too busy to notice...

I am so glad your heart is comforted. . . if someone has a problem with that. . . it is just too bad for them. Yes, God talks to me. . .maybe not in the way we learned about in TWI. . . but . . . when He does talk to me. . . . . . there is no question or guessing about it. I think He speaks to all of us. The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.