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Its all in the presentation...you are the WOGFODAT arent you? Give em a verse or two, a bowl of rice krispies then set em to work--- the best part is its not even FREE Labor. As far as I can tell they PAY YOU to do it!..then give you a percentage of their income for eternity.... For all those spertchal seekers out there--I charge less if anyone wants to do my dirty worklearn from me, come on and clean up my riverfront, chop my wood , fix my trucks, learn the word

I'm considering a move to Colorado after my deployment to Aganistan, and I am looking for advice on the best places to live. Scenery, cost of living, jobs, etc...I'm also a wildlife kinda guy, so I'm taking that into consideration too. Sometimes I'd prefer to live among mountain lions, bobcats wolves & bears rather than the neighbors I have...LOL I know a little about the Ft Carson area, but thats about it. Any help is appreciated!

How do I get the powers that be in this website to totally delete my account?

Just the usual things, is a hole an absence of matter or does the earth define the hole . You know the usual stuff.

As I have been away for a few days, I was not surprised to see a large number of posts in this thread. I don't know if I should be surprised that SOWERS Grad hasn't posted in days. What I do want to know is, what the heck have the REST of you been fighting about? :) George

Wow! You've read the whole site? I'm impressed I agree that your opinion is meager. No...we devote all of our time crabbing and crying about things that happened years ago. All of my clothes have the Grease Spot logo on them. I have a chip embedded in my head that keeps me logged on to GS 24/7. The ministry? It makes me ill to hear TWI referred to as The Ministry Okay. Why would you think that someone would tell you that? Gee, all that I got was a yellow hat. Well I did get to make out with a gal named Jeannie while guarding Wierwille's home one night...that's better than a gun. I'm not your f---'n kid, SkippyWe should have some kind of automated response to these preachy b*st*rds, I'm tired of it myself.

The "cure" comes in bits and pieces. Sometimes it's through kindness and understanding. Other times it's through a swift kick to the mental derriere. Think of it like a puzzle. The pieces can all be there, spread out on the table. One day you get a few pieces to fit. Other days you get all the mountain done. You have to be looking and trying to solve the problem - but the work pays off and eventually you get a complete, whole picture. Who's to say when and where and how that moment of epiphany will come? People aren't cake mixes. You can't simply add milk and stir. Like Crystalclearblue said, there are some times that a one-on-one "get over it already" is appropriate and necessary... and most of all HELPFUL. The timing of those words is critical. They cannot be rattled off flippantly. There are times that someone has properly chosen to tell me to get over something and move on with my life. Those times have helped my immensely. The words always came from someone who had my best interest at heart and not just that they were tired of hearing me. When I stop bucking and listen - then I really find the areas where I am actually working against myself. Oh well... another $.02 to add to the pot.

Thank you for your response. I agree with you. Since I don't even know who I'm writing to I'd have to say "get over it" is too harsh and I apologize. I failed to mention that I and all my peers were trashed also. I think in my case I was raised by a very strong Dad who made more of an impression on me than VPW, which probably made it easier to leave. By the way , I wasn't a gun toting cowboy on a daily basis, it was just once, and Chris Geer set me up with it, and I didn't know how TWI abused women until after I left the thing. I actually didn't know that anywhere near the amount went on as I am finding out now. Once again, I apologize, and thank you for your response. Eagle

Dear Eagle 709. Sometimes people just need to talk. Sometimes it's hard to find people who understand what it was like. Each person is at a different place. There is not one quote or phrase that is a cure all. I think you have to really know someone before prescribing that they "get over it". I do know someone I wish I could say that to. She was hurt by the way. They never should have treated her the way they did. But she does get annoying because it's been almost ten years and I am sick of hearing about it. I'm also sick of hearing her blame her parents, her siblings, coworkers, spouse, me etc... for her life being miserable. She has worn me down because nothing has changed or become even a little better. She even once said that her kids would be permanently traumatized because of her life experiences. She's planning on upseting them with things that happened before they were born and don't have anything to do with. But she's like that. She enjoys feeling sorry for herself and likes holding grudges. But the reason I know this is because I have spent a lot of time with her. But I still haven't told her to just "get over It." Although I'm dangerously close. Point being, sometimes someone does need to be told to "get over it". But i would be very careful about who you say it to. What if they still need some time to talk and sort things out and you scare them off, thus making their recovery take that much longer?

I've been thinking about what Shellon wrote. I'm so sorry you and your kids and family were treated like that. Loss is hard enough in itself. But to have the people closest to you blame you is unthinkable. A therapist once told a friend of mine that she was having irrational thinking, because she was feeling guilty about her husband's death. He had been ill for a long time before he died. After he died she kept going back and forth between thinking maybe she didn't do enough to find a cure or maybe she let him suffer too long while she hoped for a cure. The therapist told her grief brings on irrational thinking. There was nothing she could have done to change the outcome. After she shared this with me, she asked me to help her when she started experiencing irrational thinking again. She would sometimes call in the middle of the night, and all I had to do was remind her how much she loved her husband, how much he loved her and he knew she did everything she could for him. That's all it took for her to get peaceful again. When she would go through this, it was as if she was being tortured. It's now four years later and she is doing very well. She is happy and healthy and even dating. But it took over two years for her to get healed. I honestly believe that if someone had tried to blame her or play that kind of a mind game on her, she would not have survived it. The therapist was right. It's irrational to blame ourselves or someone else for a death. It's part of the cycle of life. God can heal and deliver, I would never want to give up on believing that. I'll believe that until someone takes their last breath. But when it's done, we just have to help each other heal and love each other. No need for a "spiritual" autopsy. Shellon, you seem like a very strong person to have survived all that and to be in contact with the relatives. You probably understand how to really help people the way they truly need to be helped. I think the reason leaders blamed people so much is because they were terrible at their jobs. They had no clue how to minister to people. They liked to tout themselves as being a MOG with us knowing the truth greater than it had ever been known before blah blah blah. They should have known better than anyone how to minister. But for all their ego and holier than thou lectures, the were incompetant and inept. That's why they blamed.

Heh heh heh - well if some had there way it clearly would be - but thank goodness Paw ain't a group think kind of board owner.

What did you plan to do with the gun? Stop anyone who tried to ride away on one of Wierwille's many ill-gotten Harleys?

Geisha,For room and board a few might come,you could call it a working vacation. Hey little vic,Every day is a new day in the usa,your little outfit is not any better or any worse than any church that teaches the bible. Yours is not exclusive,god still is not a respecter of people,thanks god.

waysider New Testament: But Jesus waysider said to them, "There is no Prophet geisha without honour except in his her own country, and among his her own relatives, and in his her own home farmhouse."

You built the cult.

how about an option for "I found out about the corruption and left when it became clear the BOT did not intend to take responsibility."

Oh he!! yeah, my personal favorite are the people in the world who look at me (maybe to avoid having to look at their own selves) and remark something brilliant like "you know what's wrong with you?" then proceed to clue me in. What? like I just got my brain this morning and haven't read the instructions yet. Mean people suck, but once in awhile, they're kinda funny.

Boy, this is a good one. I can see the possibility of someone benefitting by a confrontation. but as the history of TWI proves to me that many or most times someone confronts someone it is just wrong-headed, counterproductive, and potentially damaging to someone's heart and mind. But the first post in this thread..... while I believe fits the afformentioned scenario to a tee, still is making me chuckle and sadly shake my head a little bit. GO FIGURE!

Hi Rascal, I am not sorry that you said anything, ever. When I first got here it was evident to me that you were fighting against things that I too found morally objectionable. And a little looking around convinced me that you have manged to actively resist and counter things that were being said for a long time. And also that for the most part you were willing to do it more or less on your own. So while I welcome any good growth or change of perspective the the Good Lord happens to bring your way I in no way even want to step on your toes, even if you are being ganged up on. But this last weekend I decided that I was pretty much tired or the double-team you were facing and had to say something. Now from what I have read sofar today, it looks like the conversation that I was referring to has ceased...good...but I'm going to finish reading first. But the reason that I don't mind you speaking at all is plain and simple, in many respects I consider you to be my better, as opposed to being my equal.

Umm..friend...uh ... No doubt, it is rather difficult to see past that beam protruding from your eye :(

word. total troll.

10 will get your one the thread starter doesn't show up here again. Typical drive-by poster. ... Hit and run! <_<

I "got over it" years ago. Your opinion is in error. Yes I do. That's why I don't park myself on this website day in and day out. If you REALLY knew what was going on- the druggings, the rapes, the wholescale fraud- and you were complicit enough that you enforced the will of the fanged adders by the point of a gun- then I can see why you'd want us to "move on"- with "move on" defined as "never discuss the evil deeds performed then, and who did them." I know Kurt Waldheim was especially keen for people like Elie Wiesel to "move on"...

In TWI think, bitterness is a super spiritual emotion that renders everything a person knows, remembers, records, feels, experienced, studied etc inaccurate and spiritually suspect. Being bitter is alot like being possessed. Heavily influenced, at least. In fact, if a TWI leader did you great wrongs, and you are bitter, you then are actually more wrong and out of fellowship than the person who did you evil.Yup.

tagalong i was not "nice" to you but i am not a particularly "nice" person. i used to be but all that got me was victimized because i was so worried about being "nice" and "not offending" that i let myself get screwed over time and again. you came on "boldly" and spoke your mind and so did i. you judged harshly and so did i. you spoke your beliefs and i pointed you to your own standards. outside of that false and imaginary "household hedge of protection" where everybody agrees and nobody questions one another much less authority that's the way people are with one another. it's not a big deal and it's certainly not something to hide from because it's a sign of maturity and knowing your own self worth to be able to be questioned and disagreed with. i'm not so good at this type of communication yet but i'm better now than i was at first and i'll get better and better the more i do it. and i don't feel as attacked as when i first got here either and i also recognize that at least half of that feeling attacked was what i was bringing to the table from my own baggage. this is not a place to expect agreement and "bless you" until the cows come home but it is a place where you will find out more about yourself and your experiences than you would have ever believed and you will value the experience if you give it a chance.

And yet, you sound exactly like those that are still in the ministry. Ironic. Perhaps you might consider leaving the critical and elitist logic as well.

packed a gun because you knew what was going on and wanted to keep the kids in line because the spoon wasn't getting it?

Every good, loving, and God fearing Christian ministry needs a group of heat packing wannabees patrolling the grounds. Silly. Who else is going to be on the look out for angry fathers and husbands? Gee. . . duh??

It was the fear in the heart of the life of that man...

You packed a gun???? :o Why?

This is a common defensive tactic. When someone brings up a rational criticism of TWI, such as they all act elitist and support elitist doctrine, because they are themselves blindly involved their brain will not allow that logical criticism to remain. So in describing it, it's easier for their little self-justification to say "so-and-so hates the ministry and hates ministry people". Then they repeat it amongst themselves to the point that they all believe that. It doesn't really matter what reality is, they just define their own reality. It would be way too embarassing to say "so-and-so thinks the ministry's teaching of 'household' is elitist and egotistical in relationship to other Christians so chooses not to be involved with the ministry". You see that would establish the validity of any rational argument and decision. So they make up an irrational argument, state it as true, and act like it is true. The reality is most all of us here don't hate TWI or hate TWI members. But they will never accept that regardless of the truth of the statement. Yeah true - those mindsets run deep. She has chosen not to go to fellowship though. Part of this is all growing up and learning to survive on her own without her parents and their opinions mattering that much.

She sounds internally conflicted. I wouldn't take it personally. Yes, that's normal behavior, for wayfers. I once dated a girl who went on Waydale (the precursor to Greasespot). It wasn't pretty. Wayfers expect perfection. Their priorities are themselves first, second and third. Anything else, last. Your GF hasn't realized how deep "fellowshipping" actually is. Or, she's just beginning to realize how much she needs to sacrifice in order to truly leave.

well.......... I live in Colorado, and have for the last 33 years. Currently I am in Gunnison for the week. cost of living here is reasonable, and easy access to the things you listed. Hunting and fishing would be the prime sports, followed closely by skiing. Over dinner tonight, my friend mentioned a bear or lion got her goat yesterday. Personally I would like Boulder, but you need to be of at least a bit of a liberal bent to truly enjoy yourself there. It is known as the People's Republic of Boulder for a reason. Rock climbing, hiking, bicycling are the favorite pastimes. Housing is overpriced, but most everything else is typical front range cost. As someone mentioned, its setting by the Flatirons is remarkable. Colorado Springs is nice, but you are familiar with it. It is largely conservative christian,and also military (which still provides its economy base). Home to Focus on the Family and other mega groups of that ilk. Not my type, but I don't know your interests. I am not sure why Rum was dissing the size of Fort Collins (maybe he was thinking of ColoSpgs). It is HARDLY a large town, and the oldtown activities, restaurants and flair is remarkable. A good bit more conservative than Boulder, a moderate would be quite comfortable there. It has much more of a cowboy, western freedoms appeal than Boulder. Politically the area has the liberal flair of most college towns, but heavily tempered by the very conservative ideals of its important rural economic supporters. It has a good strong economy balanced soundly with technology, breweries (Bud and more importantly, New Belgium) and many other employment choices. FoCo has easy access to the northern Colorado mountains recreational hunting and fishing areas, Rocky Mountain National Park, as well as being an even one hour drive for the occasional jaunt into the "big" city (denver) (pssst. I have a house about ready for sale outside of Fort Collins in Laporte. Even better access to the mountains there) You might also consider Grand Junction, but the Coasters have discovered the place and it ain't what it used to be price wise. Durango is high priced housing but totally absolutely georgeous. Steamboat Springs is sweet too. From what you have mentioned so far, it sounds more like you'd rather be in the hills or near them more than out on the plains. Tell me more about your likes concerning winter and summer weather, and activity preferences, your job interests, cultural interests, housing expectations and I will try to hook you up with some ideas. I am leaning towards northern or western Colorado as my advice for you at the moment. ~HAP

Colorado Springs...pretty much the same s aRR said.. it is beautiful located at the foot of Pikes peak.. lots of good stuff there DO Not under any circumstances move to Pueblo.. Just saying... I lived there for a while ...My Brother and his family still lives there .. IT has always been difficult to find employment there and it is a steel Mill town which pretty much says it all. Grand Junction is nice too

Dear Tagalong, I see by the latest "shouts" that you intend to leave this site.Personally it is no fun to see you go. I would rather get into some issues and try to work through them. The doctrinal section is available to consider scriptures and doctrinal points anytime. And in the PM's that you invited me to do in the "new member" section I did bring up a couple of pretty straightforward scriptures as concerning the general matter of some of the topics at the Greasespot to you. And a couple of things regarding how not to put people down when quoting an important scripture. (Swine and pearls) And how I would feel if you did so again. But I did not quote them and give the references either. So whether or not you know which scriptures I was refering to at least for you it is honest for me to say that I'm certain somebody has brought up relevant scriptural points to consider. And since it is an open site you have the right to come to any conclusions at all and take your leave. But it is one thing to talk about power. Just pick a television minister and you will likely get the same lecture. But it is something else entirely to prove it as the scriptures record many doing. And I do not feel bad at all about doubting the talking about power, it is only talk after all. But oftentimes the conversation here goes toward the topic of how wicked people can be while selling the concept of God's power to people. And based on the experiences that I have read here that topic of conversation is perfectly reasonable to me.

mine lay (lie? lol) dormant when i'm asleep -- well actually not really -- i dream like a mother :)

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha i'm sowwy. that just got me !!!!!!!

jerk

Speaking of Rozilla, what is being done with the corpse chalet since she moved donna out of it and into founder's hall?

the courts have established that no sale is necessary for a change in ownership to have taken place. if Disney can't stop someone from doing something, twi sure can't. what I really want to know is if there was a contract specifying the use of the tapes when they were given to the individuals. you said there was something they signed regarding care of the tapes and running the class, but was it a contract for the return of the tapes when specific conditions were met? because if it wasn't, then twi did not retain any legal ownership rights. and just to clear up any possible confusion, copyright ownership is separate from ownership of a legally distributed copy of something. a copyright owner cannot control the distribution of a legally made copy past their own transfer of it to someone else. the exception to "first sale" termination of control of a tangible object is if it becomes subject to lending under the terms of a written and signed contract at any point in the distribution chain.