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By now, most people are familiar with the meaning of "grease spot by midnight". Way doctrine states that God puts a special "hedge of protection" around those who band together as "one true household". Leaving the household places one on the outside of the hedge and thus openly vulnerable to attacks by "the adversary". The common idea that was promoted was that once you were in the household, it would never be safe for you to venture outside. You could become a grease spot in the road by midnight. This concept is fairly straightforward and easily understood. As such, it is also easily debunked. You leave, it doesn't happen---end of story. However, there is another fear motivated concept, that I will call "the ribbon of fear", that is much more complex. It's woven throughout the PFAL series of classes. Simply stated, it's the concept that the devil can (and probably will) possess you unless you force your mind to conform to Way doctrine, otherwise known within the organization as The Word. Bits and pieces of this concept are strewn throughout the various classes. Starting in session seven of PFAL, we learn that Eve's folly was to give careful consideration to what she was hearing. The admonition here is that if one allows their mind to think freely, they could find themself in a perilous predicament just as Eve did. Thus, it is best to not even consider conflicting ideas. In the Intermediate Class, we learn that if our mind is kept preoccupied with speaking in tongues, the spirit inside us will grow stronger and thus repel such attacks. And, we must use endless repetition of Way doctrine to replace genuine thoughts. There are two classes, Dealing With The Adversary and Renewed Mind, that are expressly devoted to promoting this very doctrine. Then, in the AC, we learn that, even if a devil spirit is cast out, it can and will come back unless the person follows this doctrine. In fact, we learn that it will probably come back with addition friends and make the situation even worse. The solution? Never allow your mind to consider thoughts that contradict Way doctrine. Here are just a few examples of "sprinklings" from classes. page 19---AC "A born-again saved believer may become afflicted with evil spirits. The spirits may affect or possess mind and/or body, but not spirit." page 17---AC "They are the cause of mental and physical disease." "They can pass in and out of men and even animals." "Satan may enter divine presence at any time." page 7---DWA HOW WE STAND AGAINST THE DEVIL "You must know HOW God operates. (The PFAL classes have certainly outlined his step by step operation) You must have a spiritual connection line, a system for communicating with God. (The manifestations and their usage provide this.) You must have the proper keys for making yourself subject to God in your walk. (The Renewed Mind is your Key to Power.)" page 6---DWA The Battlefield is in the Mind The way to capture any man in anything is to get him to think like you want him to think. IDEAS CAPTURE MEN NOT WEAPONS. If we win a man's thinking in his mind, if we capture his thoughts, we can indicate and control his actions. It goes on and on and on, woven like a ribbon throughout all the classes. That's the stuff that's so hard to initially untangle from your own thoughts.

I took the Christian Family and Sex class in 1975 or 76; vp was teaching the class on video tape. I'm trying to remember what was taught concerning "Original Sin" and "abortion". I seem to remember that he said he believed the original sin was Adam masturbating (or maybe it was Eve) after they were together. They should have gone to each other if they wanted sex. vp said it was okay to masturbate if you were by yourself but once you had a spouse your spouse was to meet your need. hmmmmm!!! Concerning abortion, he said that life began when a baby took it's first breath not at conception. Of course he had his array of scripture to back up everything he said. I don't know if over the years any of those beliefs changed, or if I even remember it correctly. I didn't take notes, ha,ha, and if I did, I would have thrown them away a long time ago. Anyone remember? :wacko:

It's mid August, hot and frequent afternoon and evening thunderstorms. Ah yes, time to go down memory lane and relive Rock of Ages. Part county/state fair, part carnival/circus, part tent revival/camp ground meeting/evangelistic crusade, and part Woodstock/Sonshine Festival. How naive we were, deceived by food and decent Christian(Jesus People Folk music). Then Bless Patrol/Homeland Security popped up(Big Brother). Way Productions from 1979 on is more like Lawerence Welk(wonder how they would view Hillsongs(Darlene Zchevchk and Ruben Morgan), Chris Tomlin, Don Moen, Toby Mac, Brian Donerksen, David Crowder, Brenton Brown, Lincoln Brewster, Rebecca St. James, Casting Crowns, delirious?, Sonic Flood, Paul and Rita Balooche, Newsboys, etc.). Any comments, pro/positive or con/negative? I know, we have had this discussion before.

Nothing that happens to you, matters very much, or lasts very long; but the way you take it, matters a lot, and will last forever

First there was the "President of Greasespot???" thread. Apparently, Craig Martindale was listed as President here at the ol' GSC. But he always said he could be a successful executive. So what if he was? On last report, he was climbing the corporate (aluminum) ladder at Home Depot. So what WOULD life be like at Home Depot under a Martinpail regime? Stringing the paint cans in aisle 12? Check out girls in mini-skirts? All managers must wear smoking jackets? JT

I am a bit confused as to what LCM was ordained as, was he like supposed to have the gift ministry of a prophet? I know he has been stripped of all that, some form of ex-communication. But, if he was a prophet, wouldn't stripping him of his ministry be a watered down version? Wouldn't, if he were a prophet, wouldn't it be more correctly false prophet? Inquirying minds want to know, cause I got no clue and was wondering....michael

C'mon...be honest...how many of you guys believe even one lousy thing that came out of the piehole of Vic the lowlife Wierwille? Believing equals receiving? If you believe THAT one, you need professional help...the rest of it? The louse lost all credibility with me years ago... I see too many people paying lip service to "Doc's doctrines"...the guy was as phoney as a trombone player with a hair lip...(whatever that means )...C'mon, you guys don't still believe any of that crap...do you?

He had a Ministry of Extreme Narcissism, as well one of Self-Delusion. He was very very strong and even "gifted"in those areas... there may be others

Is "skirt chaser" a ministry? I'm just sayin'------

VeePeeWee was a common grifter, not an apostle. Trying to assign some sort of spiritual significance to his efforts is an indication that one is still, to some degree, being influenced by the deception. (IMO) Elsie Em, on the other hand, was a grifter's apprentice, not a prophet, who didn't have what it takes to master the confidence trade and got tossed out of the apprenticeship program.

Probably demonstrating screwing in Aisle 12.

How many of us, in everyday situations, despite our fantasies of mayhem, actually ever hit anyone? Other than schoolyard scuffles I've laid hands on another person twice, both times at a job site and got fired both times. The first time I was 19 and the second time I was old enough to know better. :blush: Most Americans don't just go around hitting people that .... them off, the ones that do are usually unemployed or incarcerated. Our culture is such that people find other ways to deal with the daily annoyances of life. I'm sure, at least on some level, that TWI leaders knew this, knew that even the biggest ex-football player types among us probably were going to put up with their crap, either that or just leave. The yelling and intimidation worked because we're conditioned culturally for it to work. Add to that the religious aspect and you have a "leadership" made up of bullies and thugs.

You have a good memory, taxicab, even without the notes.

I'm not sure anyone (at least not me) is saying that human nature is evil. What is being said is that the true nature of the cult was evil. In other words, no one would have joined the cult if they knew they were joining something evil. Even that statement is probably not entirely true but I think is is true in the majority of cases.

Previous discussions....

"President of Greasespot?".. http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=13147815 Is this a joke? Paw.. don't tell me you sold us down the river..

Contrary to Calvinist and other fundy dogma, human nature does not equal evil nature. I dropped that outdated, outmoded, and downright controlling steaming pile of excrement a l-o-n-g time ago.

Which makes them different than standard evangelical/fundamentalist due to the becoming part.

There's also the question of why so many ex-wayfers came by, both the sane and insane. Linders says it's cause they are attracted to their "spiritual home". "spiritual home", what the heck is that? Isn't that what heaven was supposed to be?

I'm afraid I must disagree with this statement. An error in judgment, while making a left turn, may matter a great deal and have very long lasting effects, regardless of how you "take them".

yes and no

The aforementioned information that was applied to many brains across the world has been recalled. The information has been proven to be fundamentally defective. Application and ingestion has been discovered to be harmful and even toxic. Do not apply or take internally under any circumstances. Keep out of reach of children. If accidentally ingested, immediately flush with the light of day and several gallons of Greasespotcafe "foglifter" brand, strong, black coffee, straight from the forums. Follow with a liberal application of free thought.

I think it was in 1982 when I became aware of beliefs that were being circulated around corpse that were not "available" to the rank and file twig member, such as myself. These things were not written down, nor were they circulated in Sunday tapes. I was told that one had to be a corpse member to learn these things. Later I discovered that some of this stuff didn't even make it to all corpse. Perhaps there was a corpse within the corpse and some of the super-secret stuff leaked out by mistake.

evil nature. Then again-----

human nature?

can we say how many of that 80% went off to be part of "splinter groups" of one form or another? I think they taught us in WayD to do stuff like this. It's about being able to "change gears" quickly.

So was I. Bolshevik's experience of twi was different from ours. vpw intentionally targeted the young of the counter-culture movement, partly because they were young and naive, partly because of their exposure to free sex. By marketing his stuff as counter-culture, he appealed to their anti-establishment bent. Doesn't mean every kid twi appealed to at the time joined for that reason, or that everyone joined as kids or for those reasons even if they WERE kids. I'm pretty confident vpw would have preferred never to have seen people like me join up. Smart enough to connect the dots if I can see the dots, unable to be bought off, and good enough at Bible recitation to climb the ladder to where I'd be able to see and connect the dots, that's a formula for vpw's cadre being exposed. But he was already dead when I'd first heard of him, so he had little say about me joining. And I wasn't high enough up the ladder for lcm to have heard of me when he drew his line in the sand in '89, which was error-ridden enough to induce me to leave. Ironically, if I'd stayed, I would have been a lot higher up the ladder all of a sudden- since 80% or more of the people higher up the ladder than me had all walked off in disgust.

Me too. I was looking for TRUTH.

INTERVIEWER--- Tell me a bit about yourself. MARTINDALE--- Why, I can lick any man in town! INTERVIEWER---Sir, we frown on that sort of activity in the workplace.

When those guys came around we were told they were to be on the ground in cuffs. Never happened. Linder did possess the power to caste the devil spurts out of them. He didn't bother though, because they didn't keep their heads on the werd. So, as soon as they were caste out, the dang spurts would just jump back in again, causin' all sorts of silliness. See how this works? On second thought, let's not go to Camelot . . . It is a silly place . . . I take that back, I forgot, yes it did.