Leaderboard

I like to think I wouldn't have gotten involved, either. Truth is, though, it was 50 years ago. I'm not the same person now that I was then. Don't beat yourself up over decisions you made so long ago.

I left twice. In 1982 I got married without the "blessing" of "leadership" with the added bonus of having failed to secure enough Corps sponsorship to get accepted into the 13th Corps. I got into a few arguments with the Limb Leader over various things and stopped going to Way functions. However, in my heart and mind I still believed it all and just chalked up the problems to bad leadership. Around 1990 my wife and I started considering going back. We were unaware of the turmoil that had been occurring. My oldest step son was about the right age for PFAL so we signed him up and started,

Brandeis made his famous statement that “sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants” in a 1913 Harper’s Weekly article, entitled “What Publicity Can Do.” But it was an image that had been in his mind for decades. Twenty years earlier, in a letter to his fiance, Brandeis had expressed an interest in writing a “a sort of companion piece” to his influential article on “The Right to Privacy,” but this time he would focus on “The Duty of Publicity.” He had been thinking, he wrote, “about the wickedness of people shielding wrongdoers & passing them off (or at least allowing them to pass th

Your entire post/comment resonates with me. I believe I've said the same thing about the authoritarian structure in different words, a number of times over the last twenty years. I saw it as the accountability in the social structure was bass-ackward in twi. In Acts, the elders held themselves accountable to the people who supported them. IMO, the entire Christian church, at least in the Western world, looks at authority in such a way that the elders were considered "leaders" who must be followed. That's dangerous stuff all around. And I believe that's why sexual abuse is pervasive regard

Grace – I know what you mean – I have thought the same thing myself many times…but the thing is, we are not all-knowing beings – so we are bound to make lots of mistakes. Actress Helen Mirren said something I thought was profound after winning an award (she’s won a lot of awards : Academy, BAFTA, Golden Globe, Emmy, Tony – so I don’t recall the occasion - but anyway she said) “If it were all truly known and planned and determined, life wouldn’t be worth living, just a giant to-do list waiting to be crossed off…” Something I wrote on another thread( see here ) got into “counterf

This post is golden, Waysider !!!!!!! “I'm not the same person now that I was then.” Wow! There’s something to that – and I don’t think about that as often as I should…A while back I reconnected with an old friend (by phone and email – since we live several states apart now) someone who was a good friend of mine from high school. We went on to separate colleges but still hung out together. It was about two and a half years into college that I got involved with TWI – and when I started witnessing to…and inadvertently scaring off…and sometimes even writing off my non-way friends. Long

T-Bone, yes! I agree with you, and Rocky. Future generations, need to know about cults, like TWI, so they don't get trapped in them. I wish I had known years ago, that the TWI was a cult. If I had known, I would never have gotten involved with it.

The museum idea came to me because of events last year around the country regarding removal of confederate monuments, which became a controversial issue. During a zoom meetup with historians facilitated by the Arizona Historical Society, some of them opposed removal. Others recommended the artifacts be preserved in museums dedicated to putting them in historical context so people now and in the future would better understand the changing times in our country. I'm all for preserving them, despite twi's practice of burning books and other objects they consider dangerous. Putting twi (and o

Not an endorsement of their message, but these gals are much more enjoyable to watch than the Renewed Mind singers.

Thanks for the link, Penworks that is a very engrossing paper you wrote; I think you still have an overstuffed quiver of arrows to arm folks against harmful cults – if we were talking a superhero franchise your Undertow book is like an origin story, only the beginning – so hopefully more books are in the works . Here’s a few of the things your paper got me thinking about...You wrote: “…cult leaders use symbols to control followers and how we can break the power of those symbols. As an example, I’ll use The Way International,™ the fundamentalist cult I escaped in 1987. High-control gr

With you mentioning that you and your wife were considering going back and then later getting the boot in 2001 – for some reason that made me think of a quote from the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey HAL 9000: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

In 1675, in a letter to his rival Robert Hooke, Isaac Newton wrote “If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants”…in 2021 a verbose post tried to reference that by gravitating towards the optics of what the sum of TWI-offshoots might add up to: If they have seen further into the darkness, it is by standing on the shoulders of sycophants who have had their heads up wierwille’s a$$.

Hi GreaseSpotters, Hope you are doing well! Just a note to let you know my blog post today is a special report on QAnon and whether it is a cult. The research was done by a long-time cult researcher, author, and counselor. To read it, click here.

well...you're close it's Long Distance Guy just kidding You got it George ! that's probably the most uncomfortable scene to watch

must be a thread of a tangled web "Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive”

Yeah Grace, sometimes I wonder if the top leadership of The Way International like being “under the radar” (not very well known) to avoid unnecessary attention – I know they’re probably considered small potatoes compared to bigger destructive cults like Scientology - but maybe they like it that way…being more in the public eye would leave them open to public scrutiny, criticism…and who knows, maybe even widespread demands for accountability… I wonder how many TWI-followers would still trust TWI-leadership if they found out even just a smidgen of the sexual abuse that’s been going on – a

Yes !!!! A case in point is the riveting film Spotlight - IMDB's brief description of it - "The true story of how the Boston Globe uncovered the massive scandal of child molestation and cover-up within the local Catholic Archdiocese, shaking the entire Catholic Church to its core."

My community believes Phil, and other men trained as ministers in The Way International, are righteous, knowledgeable authorities and that the beautiful women they surrounded themselves with are lucky to be in their presence. This organization, a recognized cult, has significant claims of sexual and spiritual abuse, dating back to the 1970s. In this community, these are swept under the rug and brushed aside as “how men behave.” Is that how your community behaves? Where a man “teaches” sexually starved young women, who believe him to be a friend and mentor, by forcing his fingers inside their v

A long time ago on a calendar far, far away… A False Hope It is a period of civil unrest. An unscrupulous pastor striking it rich from plagiarism has won some converts by hijacking many of them from organized religion and the Jesus Movement. During battles to control his own followers certain brave souls had managed to break open the lock-box of dirty secrets as well as reveal the cult leader’s ultimate weapon, delusions of grandeur with enough power to destroy one’s grip on reality. Pursued by ridiculous threats of oblivion and devil possession, rebel ex-followers established c

Mark, Have you thought of publishing it as an eBook? I’ve put a couple of how-to links below. I can’t give you any advice on which way to go since I’ve never published anything – but as an end-user (I like to read books ) I tend to buy eBooks more than printed books. I know my wife appreciates the fact that our home doesn’t look like a book hoarder’s convention . Seriously though, I like the convenience and portability of eBooks since I have some study Bibles, commentaries, and Bible encyclopedias on my Kindle and iPhone Kindle App…You sound like you’ve done a lot of the footwork

The pfal Foundational class was billed as "foundational." It would be more fair to the material to point out that the class is a mix of material from BG Leonard's class, Bullinger's books ("How To Enjoy the Bible" early on, "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" later on) abd Stiles' "Gifts of the Spiirit" book, along with a few things tossed in here and there. Then it should look a little disjointed- because it IS. Look- I'm an eclectic. I LIKE the idea of drawing from diverse backgrounds. That's a SELLING POINT to me- you did the work and are trying to get the best, or the most rele

Their retirement accounts, of course!

Advances the illusion that Wierwille/Martindale/Rosie had a valid and legitimate model for advancing godliness but just somehow made a mistake along the way and didn't know how to right the ship. I don't believe that's what happened either in the beginning or at any time in the course of the cult's history. The social accountability was bass-ackward from the start. The model in the book of Acts seems to have been having leaders be servants of and to the followers. TWI, from the start seemed to make the followers believe that they should treat the "leaders" like gods. That's why every

I remember when it was forbidden to use ABS funds to buy postage ....to send your ABS funds to HQ.

And to think some of the Ar$ewipes are now starting 'same $hit diffen't day ministry' at Restoration and revival (including my bro-in-law)...hmmnnn...what are they 'reviving' I wonder ?!

LOL yes I did mean adulterous. Autocorrect strikes again. I was out WOW when I walked into a certain Reverend fooling round with a 19 year old woman. I told my friend and he had seen them too. The Rev's wife was upstairs and Rev was in his office with his secretary, a new PFAL grad, "working on a teaching". I then found out from the child of this leader that this had been going on for a while. I sat on that information for a while. A few weeks later, that leader took the teen fellowship out for ice cream "his treat". He had me go to his office and grab some of the ABS to pay for the ice c

Hi WordWolf, I have thought more about that letter and that time and what you guys have said in response to my post, thanks. . I myself was pretty much sheltered from the fallout , but it must have been horrible for everybody in the way corps. Easy for me to look back from 35 years distance and think about what if, maybe, and (my personal favorite) shoulda coulda woulda. But today, I am so grateful that was then and this is now.

Exactly what I started to figure out when I decided to leave. "wait a minute...we are paying to work AND getting reproved by very angry leaders who cheat on their wives. WHAT THE..." You should have been there when a friend and I went to Craig to let him know we had "discovered" an adulatory and theft problem among some leaders. I thought he was going to punch me.

Hello, Grace and Mercy! Sadly, releasing POP back then would have accomplished little of worth. The document, if true, details vpw complaining about how twi was tossing him aside the way he'd tossed aside so many before that. So, with lcm- vpw drone 1- neglecting vpw, vpw went to cg- vpw drone 2, who soaked up everything with fervent vpw worship. So, vpw ranted about how the leadership, in forsaking vpw, the broken cistern of twi's doctrine and practice, were destroying twi. He made a bunch of predictions that ALL failed to come to pass. (It shouldn't surprise anyon

Some misguided soul in Belize seems to have put this together. Must have taken some work. Pity the author didn't spend that amount of time doing something useful - personal Bible study, for example. Or reading this website.

that's some good points JohnJ !!!!

Welcome to Grease Spot, Grace and Mercy ! I love your comprehensive and expressive story – thanks for sharing. You’re right, there were a lot of good folks trying to walk with God and serve others – and your last line “That the organization still exists is a wonder to me” made me re-think the upheaval of 1986 after the reading of The Passing of the Patriarch. A common analogy on Grease Spot often draws a comparison to some dedicated folks rearranging the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic. But in actuality this TWI-tanic never sank. So the survivors got off and returned to the real worl

The whole SP thing was yet another scam. SPs were supposed to provide for your funding and everything else. It was "godly" to support people through their Corps training. And some people who could better have used the money to support their families did help sponsor in-rez corps through the training indoctrination. A lot of money was paid for the training, which included of course the accommodation (free to TWI, they owned the land and buildings) and food (at minimal cost, since they grew quite a bit of it). But the cost for the training... it wasn't training. Your mother shouldn't h

It's hard to accept that reality. But you're right. Those of us who grew up in TWI, we didn't join. We were dragged along and then left when we got older, so it's really hard to see how this could even happen. It's hard to let go, it's hard to know how to handle this, who to be mad at, if anyone. But I saw plenty of terrible abuses, thefts and lies in TWI so why am I surprised? I know this, TWI didn't care where that money came from as long as the pyramid scheme kept the money rolling in and the vulnerable people were there for them to take advantage of.

One of the most liberating things when I left TWI was the realization the Sh1t Happens.

Hi Annio… …what a courageous and honest post !!! …somehow I missed this thread - so I just wanted to add my 2 cents now… You got me thinking about a few of ways that a double standard played out in TWI. A double standard is a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people than to another group. One aspect of the double standard in TWI is the misogynistic tendencies as you mentioned. In the bigger picture as we all know, this is something not just confined to TWI – but at least in the outside world there have been some br

VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.

Memories good, bad or indifferent... I was just thinking a few days ago, as I prepared to visit a friend (in my "bubble") for our very quiet NY Eve celebration (a meal, a bottle of good wine, and a glass of port) than we once used to have to go to a massive Event in the auditorium. Way Prods would put on a show (sometimes quite good) and there'd be few comedy bits. And then it'd all cool down and there'd be prayers to bring in the new year. Do they still do that, I wonder? Can they even fill the front row in the auditorium nowadays? Or do they all "social distance" and sit 6 or 16 r

After I left TWI, I realized my pre-TWI life was just as valid as during TWI. As posted above, we were taught to disavow our previous life as "old man" etc. i came to see my life a single thread, not a before and after. I reclaimed my previous life. I made a pie chart of my life with time in TWI highlighted. It's about a fifth of the pie and this point. As time goes by, the TWI section gets smaller and smaller....

Well, hopefully........some decent folk with use those critical thinking skills and realize that they are being played (again). I mean, c'mon......how many times do you have to spend your hard-earned money to hear the same class material? Whether it takes you two days of drive time or extra money flying into Denver and then getting shuttled over to Gunnison.......it STILL is nearly two weeks away from work and money out of your pocket for a re-run class. Plus, it's going to be 1) intense and 2) condensed.......meaning, the ac grad students are AGAIN going to have their butts in seats fo

This is not surprising. At age 80.....I would imagine that Rosalie is tired, truly tired, of keeping up daily pretenses. And, looking in her mirror.....it was time to face the reality that her aged body is not camera-ready without a lot of constant work. The daily grind of details.....who quit, who exited, and who is going to go in and do damage control. Hundreds of corps have exited since 2005. And, that 2017 exodus took a swath of "big-names" (moynihans, forts, horneys, magnellis, fredericks, etc.) many who'd been involved since the early 70s. Even for Rosa-lie.....that had to

meh...

The path of JAL through those controversies- and others- can be traced through entire discussions we've had here, and they're NOT hard to find. It's peculiar to know to come here to discuss JAL but not know we've discussed any of those before.

Hoping for a good outcome for you.

You know why I come here? To be judged by people who don't know who we are, why we're here, what motivates us. I love being called bitter by a total stranger making a blanket statement in a drive by post. Welcome to Greasespot, Your Honor.

Thanks Grace, I haven't been around here much for a long time, and had never seen that link from Penworks (Thx, Penworks, BTW), but on all the other pretty current. I was at the reading of POP at corps week in '86. Have read portions since. My gawd, that poor man, look at the burden on him and how he really serves and shields the MOGFOT and how he tries so hard, and no matter what he just keeps trying, and the hurt and pain of OUR beloved MOGFOT, oh, I wish I had been there.....sob sniff tears.....NOT. I also know two fellas, 8th and 10th, who flew to Gartmore with ano

People it has been like 30 years since most of this stuff went down what the hell are you people doing here still discussing VPW and the rest [I noticed you "necro'd" a thread inactive more than a decade, just to say your peace on a long-dead discussion. If you cared about the subject, 30 years would be no barrier to you. But people were hurt, people died, and people are processing all the information NOW to get their healing and move on. Last of all, new people hear about twi, and they come here to learn about it- then steer clear. We help people by discussing all of this.]

Nice summary. I think that hit the mark.

Taxi, I think if JAL had done "some actual research," he would know that most of VPW's teachings about the Bible were off! If VPW was wrong, than JAL would be wrong, because he followed after VPW. I don't think JAL would ever publicly admit that most of what he has been teaching, is wrong. John has a huge ego, and he isn't a humble person; God forbid that he admit to being an ordinary person like you, and I.

With TWI's focus on abundance as well, I thought this youtube video by JP Sears about The Law of Attraction has some good points as well. If you accept that The Law of Attraction and The Law of Believing are essentially the same thing.