Twinky

Wish I could watch this program, but it's not available here. Aha! Just found some items by Lalich on YouTube. Might be worth a look.

Don’t know about “moving the Word,” but it strikes me that as far as WoG=WoG goes, this is the Will of God: Ezekiel 33:11- Say to them: 'As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked should turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! And I Tim 2:3-4 - This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. I doubt that much that we did helped people make the decision to “turn from their ways,” nor “come to a knowledge of the truth.” Unfortunately (God forgive us), too much that we did moved people into mere existence, and not “life in all its fullness.”

Yeah, LCM is in prison - with his Bible with the hand-turned pages. Much good that did him. FRAUDS the frikin lot of 'em.

"And if you ever want to talk, if you every want to do anything, we're here." In other words, YOU come to us. We are not going to find you (and apologise). No, Jacque. YOU come here, you apologise. You will get a lot of flack. But you might find a little forgiveness or compassion, too, IF if if you are humble enough. You will need to LISTEN and not to (pretend to) preach.

Blessed putrid be the fruit!

Stupid jargon phrase. Anyway, I don't know anybody except TWI that uses that phrase. Maybe, "speaking the Word" or "speaking the gospel" is better. In church we talk more about "outreach" or "evangelism." One of my favorite "hated phrases" is "the Word of God is the will of God." Sounds good. Pretty meaningless, at least in the way TWI used it.

This wasn't under VPW's reign. This was under LCM's reign. I can't remember if the Bible was for him, but probably so. Maybe a gift to commemorate the filming of the live Advanced Class? Or maybe someone, and some event, quite different. Most of you folk posting here are from the VPW era. Please don't bring everything back to that; those who suffered under LCM suffered a different reign of terror and manipulation. Servitude with a different flavor. Much worse, I think. I look back now and think, how could I ever have got so sucked into that state of mind? But it was that slow turn of the screw, the "short sharp shock" when we started in rez (with the lying promise of relaxation later) and the slow laying on of further burdens. Anybody else here from being in rez in the post-fog years? No doubt leadership of the time had their own set of burdens and pressures; Skyrider has written of some of these.

Now come on, Outie. We got $30/month and a shared room in Founders Hall, and three meals a day. But weird. Gently turning pages, in a Bible, or which the recipient probably had at least one already. I am not going to peruse my Corps journals to try to find out why we did this inane thing.

A random thought this morning, well not so random as I carefully parted the pages of a map that had got wet. Anybody else remember carefully turning over one page of a new bible that was to be given to some leadership person? I remember once in rez that we all got to turn a few pages of a brand-new ultra-thin page bible, so that the pages would be easier for the intended paragon of ability to open when he came to read the bible (big assumption there, I'm thinking!). To turn these pages was considered a privilege for the turners, and a blessing for the recipient. Yeah, right.

What I think is so amazing is how these people thought it was okay not only to expel people (at will) from various programs, but to order them out of the state or the town. And the victims complied! This, to people who may have given up good jobs, sold property at a loss, moved hundreds of miles (if not to say, moved from another country), disrupted children's education, etc - probably having become alienated from their family and friends who would form a support group - and it's okay to tell people who have demonstrated so significantly their commitment to the cause, that they've gotta be out of town in a few hours. Talk about a power imbalance - "leadership" exercised unfettered "rights" and the victims were so bullied and weakened that they were unable to resist. All because they were being "obedient to God." Grr! It's easy to see to whom such leadership had demonstrated so significantly their commitment - to the one who steals, kills and destroys. God might have a few things to say to such bullies about obedience and meekness.

Wow, there's just nothing like comforting (coming alongside) the bereaved, is there? Just who the f--- did these people think they were? Yeah, who did they think they were? Get outta the state. Get outta the planet. The really crazy thing is, Wayfers felt compelled to OBEY such ludicrous commands.

Well, the Horneys learned their trade under the "leadership" of LCM; they were Corps Coords at more than one campus. As did the Stricklands - learned their trade - not ever "leadership." Why should R&R be different, where the leaders were all modelled on "f--k up leadership"? (In all senses of f- up.)

Possibly, especially if it's a white carpet.

Whited sepulchre

Good post, T-Bone. Authenticity Yes. I can't even begin to think of Christians that should be doing this. Lk 12:42ff seems on point, about a master finding his servant(s) doing the right thing. Also, Deut 25, about giving proper value and not cheating. Although this applies to physical weights, I think it appropriate to apply it to "the weight of time" and giving good value for what an employer is paying for. 13“You must not have two different weightsf in your bag, one heavy and one light.g 14You must not have two differing dry measures in your house, a larger and a smaller. 15You must have a full and honest weight, a full and honest dry measure, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. 16For everyone who does such things and acts unfairly is detestable to the LORD your God. I think that compassion coupled with vision for improvement is important for Christian leaders. Compassion - everyone needs that! Vision - because it's not just seeing a need, but having the vision to see a way through and beyond the need,so as to lift the needy person(s). Also, the ability to communicate that vision, and get others enthusiastic and alongside. "Communication"" isn't just words (especially not fancy words) but will include action that brings forth results (healed and helped people). Of course, nothing will go anywhere without a deep reliance on the power of God to energise, but that can't be seen directly, only by its outcomes - showing faith by one's works.

Wish the "quote" function worked better -I know I set it up correctly - but no doubt people here can work out what's from 1 Tim 3 and what's from a less capable source.

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum, but i don't want the aggression of About The Way, and it's not really Open, either. So: what is “Christian leadership”? We have a Corps principle that says we should “go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need,” which is in itself a good principle, but it was twisted to suit TWI’s concerns, interests, and greed. We have the R&R bunch who’ve set themselves up as “leaders” of some other sort of TWI-clone. As to Biblical suggestions, there are some qualities listed in 1 Tim 3, regarding “bishops” or “overseers” and “deacons,” which I’m including here because if I don’t include it, someone else will post it.

Since it belongs more on this thread than on the Ted Talk thread, I thought I'd copy in what Don'tWorryBeHappy said about an hour ago on that TT thread:

Love it! We have our own gravedigger (maybe ex-gravedigger?), who knows where the bodies are buried. Go for it, DWBH. I didn't know any of the stuff you posted about. You know stuff about some of the others, too, I think. Allan, who posts here occasionally, can tell you his own tales about the Str1cklands, co-signatories to the T&T letter. Allan knows rather a lot about the Str1cklands.

R&R want to bring Paul into it? Fine. Get out of the ivory tower or the gilded cage, or wherever they hang out, and study to challenge themselves. Then, get out there into dangerous, hostile and risky situations, and preach the gospel. Is any one of them prepared to be falsely imprisoned? To face a real risk of death? To actually die for their beliefs? For sure, if there were a real risk of death, one would want to be sure one's lifestyle were beyond reproach and be sure that one's beliefs were rock solid - truly held and not second-hand acquired-by-rote niceties. Paul knew the hurt and damage he'd caused. I'm certain he did everything he could to learn from that, and ensure he never again blindly followed what he'd been taught without really, really, really thinking it through. Sounds like a lot of work, to me!

It would be appropriate for this R&R bunch to show us their faith by their deeds. Not by their words, of which there are many. But by their acts of selfless kindness, compassion, and genuine service to those who can respond only with a word of thanks (and maybe not even that). Let them do that for a few years. Then perhaps they will have something to say that's worth listening to.

Jesus Christ? What has he to do with anything? Isn't he off someplace playing a harp, or fishing, or some such?

Maintaining accountability ... Yes, everyone was accountable to some supposed higher level - branch, limb, etc - but the BoT (as it was when I was around), or BoD nowadays, didn't consider itself accountabe to anyone or anything. They accounted for none of their actions, for none of the consequences of any words or "doctrine," and not for the money given to them in trust. I love that churches I know of here have a proper structure and no one is left unaccountable. That also means that leaders, vicars, etc, aren't left feeling either Godlike in power, nor, conversely, unsupported by those they serve. There's a lot to be said for accountability and orderliness.

Yes, I remember something vaguely like that. And "Ephesians - the breakfast of champions." Or some such. But --- want some kool-aid with that? How about: "PFAL - the sedative for all your worries"? Or: "PFAL - for the pi$$ that passes all understanding"?