TrustAndObey

Looks like the Yanks came through.. Only I was rooting for Detroit on that one, and they still might win the series.. In the AL, I don't see the Rangers being much of a threat if they win the ALCS with their terrible pitching that is sometimes good but mostly just mediocre or bad. And NY is the same.. Detroit, I don't know that much about..

Interesting data... I wasn't aware it was always that one sided... Course, I agree with you this year.. the AL just doesn't seem to have anything that great. Not compared to the Phillies that is..

While I wish that were the case.. They still have over a 1000 deluded folks. This last summer, about 50 attended their Adv. Class.. Yes, that's right.. Only around 50. And just so it didn't look so pathetic, they had it at Gunnison where everyone fit perfectly into that small auditorium there.. And just like last year, mostly teens and tweens. The numbers are dropping.. So, maybe a year or two you might be right.. One for every fellowship.. At least they are partially honest.. They could have just out and out lied and say they are living God's way. But they are a smart one, they are, that way they are not liable for those who misunderstood what they are really saying so clearly. It's TWI's way.. TWI's words. Most people have woken up to that truth by now.

I wouldn't even try and dissect the spirit into 9 manife-whatevers.. What, just cause 9 are listed in 1 Cor, that's all the capabilities?! I think the spirit/God is much bigger and capable than that. More than we could ask or think or relate or describe or hypothesize. And with no verse saying the number of these shall be nineteen, thus the number shall be nineteen.. !plop! Oopps, sorry, nine it shall be... Not ten anymore, or eight, unless you continue to nine.. Yeah. I just don't see the need to splitting and spit and sputter and whatever.... Now I'm babbling , I know..

Scary... There they go again.. I'm really just curious how they actually get people in this day and age where the truth is out of the bag.. Or maybe these aren't computer/internet savy folks. And did I see a big red "SIT" stop sign sticker in one of their bibles? I'm wondering if TWI has the trademark/copyright on that... Lots of questions... I'm fine with no answers.

I would say they are pretty well opposites on this point at least.. The Way has, at least since Rosie took over, been depending on outside contractors to do more and more of the work at the locales. Due to the loss of trained individuals, esp Corp, and especially the numbers dropping off of those willing to work at the locales, they have been increasing their outsourcing and have now become very dependent on those "unbelievers".

I can just feel the love in some of these posts... Contradictions and inaccuracies or immaculate writings... I think we can at least agree the reception isn't immaculate, or else what's the point of all the infighting?! But it is clear, there are inaccuracies.. Whether that be due to transmission, interpretation, etc.. Heck, just take the simple list of numbers in Nehemiah 7 vs Ezra 2 vs Esdras 5... All three lists are so far in disagreement, even our resident mathematician would consider it a failure. Ok, maybe not.. I shouldn't speak on a squirrel's behalf. I'm just wondering why it should matter whether a brother or sister takes what Paul or Peter or Moses or others have written about the Creator as whether they were our Creator's exact precise accurate and immaculate words or not, when it is the relationship that is the key. Black and white ink, while great for a help and a guide, it certainly to me isn't worth the tearing down of one another over it. God still is. What He said is true, and whether or not I know all He said, well, He can tell me what I need, right?! I just don't see the reason for idolizing the black and white, rather than being honest. It has inaccurate information! And if you say it doesn't.. Tell me again the number in each tribe of those who returned from exile(Ezra 2/Nehemiah 7/Esdras 5)?

For those who may be or will be starting a blog, a forum, or another website, it's good to be aware of this... Seems a loophole exists currently where you can be sued for infringement irregardless of rules,notices, and such, if someone posts copyright material on your site. That is, unless you pay $105 to file an agent of takedown record with the government. -------------------------------------------------------------------- A federal judge in Colorado has stayed proceedings in 35 pending lawsuits in that state brought by Righthaven against alleged copyright violators. The Las Vegas, Nevada-based company has built a reputation for itself by using a loophole in copyright law to sue blogs for copyright infringement when they post excerpts of previously published material. Righthaven says it is suing on behalf of the copyright holders. The judge says that before allowing the cases to proceed, he wants to be sure that Righthaven has the legal standing to bring the lawsuits. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/05/judge-halts-every-righthaven-case-in-colorado.ars http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/05/righthaven-brouhaha/

It sounds like you know quite a bit about those darn debil spirits than TWI... Last I recall they did bite them in the @$$ and had been living large at TWI HQ since the drunkin' rapist moved in... And since they haven't been removed since, I'd say that's a pretty accurate statement! As far as causing them pain, it's more like they fed them until the government forced a few to leave. Not sure how big they've grown since, but I'd say they are still livin large on vacation at TWI!

Glad some are being honest about what it says....

Hmm.. Did he redo his own Adv Class? I could've sworn in '95 when I took it, it was his.. Still remember him walking down the aisle making jokes about how that was him on the screen and messing around with the group while i was trying to listen and felt like telling him to shut up so I could hear! lol.. As if I would.

I always did feel a bit creepy doing that. Will the Russians attack?! Where are the guns!

And therein lies much of the TWI falacy where they could not discerned what "the" new man really is. And so to the deathbed they go. With VP "wishing he were the man he knew to be". Or so someone says. Who knows. Or who cares! Did he really live up to that statement? Did he really wish... Was that all he could muster up! A wish he could do better before screwing everyone over. No believing action.. Maybe that deathbed statement is true after all! lol.. Oh, but this is about Bullinger, right.. So I heard he also said that I should be given all his estate after he died!

I'm sure it's miles apart from Oral Roberts Univ.. And a boat load of others. However, when I first left TWI and the Corps, that was one of the first things I did as I was looking to get some 'REAL' training with a real degree. But what I found out was it's as varied as anything else.. Some are very structured like the normal collegiate system. But there were quite a large amount of "other" Christian training programs similar. And no, I didn't hook up with any of the "others" after having my share of the Corps. Although a good amount of the less class structured ones seemed to be in Europe. Not sure why..

Only, don't stop and think about that one too long.. Rosie and LCM were "Corps" too... IT"S THEIR FAULT.. Oh wait, I thought about it.. The first mistake of ......

Never had regrets about it, but certainly saw I needed to make a change of plan! For what it's worth, I actually enjoyed my entire time. Once I knew I wasn't staying, I ignored TWI leaders plans and did my own thing (of course working within the boundaries they enforced). While I knew what I was signing up for, in regards to loyalty, commitment, etc.. That loyalty and commitment was to an honest ministry that I thought actually helped people. And going into the Corps I had no issues, as OldSkool put it, "blissful ignorance". This was even after spending a year at HQ!! But after my apprentice year was up and in-rez I went.. I would say it took a month before I knew.. The first few days and weeks I was more trying to figure out what was expected, where things were at, getting used to a new schedule.. The usual. Then.. I hear LCM make this ridiculous statement during a Corps teaching, "I don't care how one has to finagle the pronouns[in scripture], such and such happened..". This event which LCM was so certain happened in scripture was doctrinally inconsequential. It's like picking at dung and trying to force one to accept it was green, who cares. But his callousness with scripture is what caught me off guard. And there was no way one could wrestle with the pronouns to get it to say what he wanted either. We met in our groups afterwards to go over the teaching. And everyone was upbeat, no one cared he made that statement and agreed with his deep "insight". But I just wanted to make sure I heard it right. So.. I got with my coordinators, and on up it went to the corps coord, who gently sat me down, didn't deny it (later was verified by tape), but instead told me how "loyal" they are to the man. Didn't care what he said, they trusted his life to him. And that statement.. Just ignore it, and trust da prez.. That was just the beginning. Just one of the first signs that all was not well in the camp.

The value is hard to say.. Was it anything "earth shattering" or some "hidden" holy grail of wisdom? No.. But to say there was no benefit would be like saying reading the scriptures has no benefit. But THAT about sums up the benefit. No more than an average person would have gotten reading the scriptures or going to "church" and listening to another sermon. Nadda, zippo, nothing more to see, you didn't miss out on anything. If there was some "pseudo-greek metaphoric FOS rambling", most just ignored it cause it really had no purpose. Like the one time he sat there for an hour trying to convince everyone there must be 7 FOS in a specific verse cause it just must be "spiritually perfect", so he went through many gyrations of posturing different FOS just to try and get that seventh one to fit (And no, he never figured it out that hour, and instead gave it as a Corps assignment..) .. Ok, well, I did lie. You did miss out. Missed out on the harassing, vulgar, yelling, rants and raving that those in charge decided to throw at you. You missed out on more legality and life hampering ways. Yes, my friends, this you surely missed out on.. But don't feel bad, you can always join up and enjoy these "benefits". Actually being in the Corps, and hearing these "Corp teachings", if you weren't drinking the kool-aid, you'd notice that there was actually more work you had to do to separate truth from error, since it was mixed so heavily in everything that was said.. Heavy indoctrination.

Don't feel so bad, I think VP and LCM didn't have a clue either, cause we know the "gap" they were plugging.. And the current regime at TWI seem to think it has more to do with kissing this "gap".. But all the while, the rest of the "regulars" who think someone is standing in the gap is really ......... Well, anyways.. This is getting too deep for me. And Twinky gave a great description so no need for me to add to it.

Ol Vic didn't care about the songs either.. It took the copyright holders getting a hold of TWI and asking for $$ that set them straight.. Too bad all the guys Vic stole his PFAL material from didn't do the same..

Money.. It's all about the money.. And TWI wasn't willing to shell any of it out just so we could sing those songs that TWI felt needed reworded anyways.. Sure, they paid some money out once they realized they were committing copyright infringement with printing all those early song books with other people's copyrighted works. And once they realized that was going to cost them money. All the songs got scaled back and no more extras unless TWI held the rights. And to print the actual scores, why that would cost even more $$....

While I may have worked at HQ and even oversaw a "department" for a short stint, there was nothing that I ever saw while working there that told me they even had a clue. Having worked in the real business world prior, although never overseeing anything in the secular realm [at the time], it was still clear to me that TWI hadn't a clue. Maybe it was more cause I was a little punk in my 20s who was hoping when he went to HQ he'd actually learn something from these great and wonderful leaders.. And only to be disappointed and finding out that instead of them teaching me anything, I was having to show them how to do everything I learned in my short stint in the real world.. But then. I do have to be fair.. I see the same thing in these Fortune 500 companies of today.. They end up sending to the top, managers who have no clue. That ends up stifling most of their workers cause their supervisors haven't a clue and restrict them from really branching out and learning. And then, well, they end up outsourcing which is fine with me since it keeps my businesses booming. And that's exactly what I saw when I was at HQ.. They were starting to outsource more and more the things they would do in house. And one might think that was just due to down sizing.. But I don't think that was the "only" factor. (Part, sure). But the largest part was, their "leaders" were being stifled by the top dogs, and these stifled leaders ended up stifling everyone else, and now, it's just a cesspool that hopes it can recruit newbies to help em out. Yeah, they'll be looking for these fresh kids in their 20s again, to help them out. IMHO of course. Of course, I do have to admit, my stint in TWI has helped me in the real world. Just not in the areas of any specific trade. Since they are clearly behind the times. And certainly there is nothing "resume" worthy. Some of what I learned is actually the opposite.. As in, I've learned to NOT do things like as in TWI. (Yes, I'll admit that was after trial and error and finding out, their ways didn't work! lol).

You know, this probably should go into "Theological/Doctrinal". But just as an FYI, God does the reconciling,not us. What God has "given" is the good news, the words, the opportunity to serve in sharing the good news that God has reconciled the world unto Himself through His Son.. You and I are only ambassadors. Those who share the good news. Not the ones who actually "reconcile men to God".. God already wants to reconcile, and any willing person that comes to Him is reconciled, but you and I are just there to share the news and help point the way if they willing want to go and reconcile.. If you want to call that help, reconciling, well, it's your business. And in just that, some feel they ought to be paid to share the good news.. Sure.. Go be a sale person. Have fun selling those newspapers, classes, and magazine subscriptions.. For the most part, they're preaching to the choir. TWI and exTWI folks. Heck, most churches. If people were actually giving money to help the sharing of the good news, they ought to give it to those who ain't sitting in their nice little enclave and groupie friends, but rather is out there amongst those who have never heard of Christ and what God has done. Else.. Well, waisted money. Trying to convince people their egocentric view is better than the last. Waisted $$ I say..

Well it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that it must be God... I mean.. Gee, didn't you see the white snow on the gas pumps? Or was it the black snow.. Or was it so much snow you couldn't see the gas pumps... Ugg.. If only God would just make it clear, I mean, give us a written and signed certificate of who He is placing in charge here. Anyone see one of those? *scribbles on piece of paper* MOGFODAT

And that sums up quite a bit about most ministry leaders, offshoots, and church pastors.. No, not all, but a good majority. Not to pass blame, since I also acted the same when in TWI. I remember a number of good ol' witnessing adventures thinking I had the answers. But I'm glad to say now, I don't, and honestly, I don't care to have all the answers, I got better things to do than try and put the whole world into this box called my brain.

While I realize people like to "think" they own that precious green paper and the elemental pieces of stuff it can be traded for.. Isn't it really all God's? And if one were to say they "work" for Him, do what He wishes... Sure, I have a problem with these paid "clergy".. Granted, if they help you, there's no doubt they ought to be worthy of compensation. (AFTER they have helped). For surely then they have received their reward already in full, but those who give in secret will be rewarded by their Father. (Matthew 6) If you want to help, help. If you want money, just state it plainly instead of hiding it behind a veil. If that's their desire, to try and take money from those who have not, all in the name of "helping them know God". What you do, your actions, speak loudly of who you are. And these offshoots tell me enough that I realize I want nothing of them. Actually I lump many a churches, ministries, and the like in the same. For they show the same. But my further beef with many of these groups, is that many try and dictate what it is God has said and meant in the Christian writings as if they are in the know and everyone else ought to look up to them. I mean, really, are they God? Every last one of them has changed their beliefs over time, so why should I think what they have to say is any more accurate than what they've already discarded. All this jive about present truth, time tested, and proven doctrine is just a bunch of bs in my opinion. When there's an opposing view with just as must time tested proven bs.. Sure, someone might be right. But the ego in it all.. I just couldn't stomach it after I left TWI. The pyramid structure is not a structure of love and care IMHO. And I've only found it's used for the two things I could care less about. One, to try and keep "doctrine" pure (or should I say, their egocentric view pure). And the other is to be the largest servant, (read: Lord of God's people) I mean helpers yeah.. The ultimate guider, whereas ultimately, they become the ultimate receivers and beneficiarys lauded with great praise and adoration for what reason? Cause they started a 501.c, put themselves under the governments rules, and lauded their views.. :PUKE: