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TrustAndObey

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Everything posted by TrustAndObey

  1. At least you have some fire, zeal, and emotions with that... Unlike the STS and other boring outlets that TWI pushes out these days.. I still can't understand how even one person still "in" would want to torture themselves by listening.
  2. As long as you keep the "deity of Christ" separate from the belief in the Trinity, then you are correct. As there are MANY megachurches these days that lean more to Oneness theology than Trinitarian and are very well promoted in Christian circles.. T.D. Jakes, with over 30,000 members, being one example. One statistics says over 1/4th of megachurches are non-denominational, and have very differing doctrinal views.
  3. I can't say as far as Walter Cummins or Wayne Clap, since I never knew them, but I can say that the majority (and that even includes Mr. Schoenheit of STFI) have little clue about Koine Greek (Geer and Lynn's inabilities in the languages are too evident). Ed. Horney was teaching Greek at TWI for the in-rez Corps when I was with them, and he had no clue and made countless mistakes in every hour of his teaching(s). The Greek handouts they gave out to the Corps had inaccuracies as Steve pointed out. And they never really taught Greek anyways. Mostly how to look it up in a concordance, transliterate, parse words using a lexicon, do word studies, and understand a few basic grammar principles (albeit many were inaccurate). It'd be like asking the "trained" in TWI what the aorist tense is used for, much less ask them why it has the past tense modifier mixed with the future tense modifier. No, they would give you an English grammar equivalent that is inaccurate because it was given in their "Greek handout". And Hebrew... lol.. At least Mr. Schoenheit has some better understanding there... But the rest.. Don't ask, their blind. Edited: I guess I'm being a little unfair.. Even a first year Greek student will learn basics that are then later refined and even basic understandings changed the more years you learn the language. What you once were taught was similar to the English Present tense no longer is the case later on. But for a beginner, you have to start somewhere. And that usually includes drawing similarities between what you know and what you don't. But TWI did the disservice of making their "trained" feel like they actually knew something, when a lot of it was just pure rubbish.
  4. Twinky, I "think" what they are trying to communicate, correct me if I'm wrong, but that while there is an idiom or multiple idioms relating to permission, such verbiage and terminology is not mainstream. It is Bullinger that uniquely relates to it using those distinct words, whereas it may be called something completely different to most everyone else, yet the idiom does exist. (
  5. Could that be why the "Fear of God" is the Beginning of wisdom.. Once it begins, the beginning uncomfortable fear melts away into awe/reverence?
  6. My expectations. I think the same as most.. Learn how to operate the other 6 manifestations... And maybe meet someone while there.. lol And what did they teach. The other 6 manifestations won't happen until the moon is blue, a new heaven and earth, hell froze over, pigs fly, oh and elephants too.. While that may not be their words, they did say A) It required YOU to do A.B.C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.K.L.M.... more if I think about it.. B) The other person that may be involved (wanting to be healed, etc..) to be doing A.B.C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.K.L.M.... C) God wanting and telling you to take action.... It was pretty much summed up like that so if it never worked for you, there was at least some variable that they could say, but.. that part wasn't right. You, them, God.. Someone wasn't perfectly in alignment. Their excuse, their out, of why nothing ever happens. And usually, it was on you! You weren't believing, you weren't SIT enough, you didn't have everything aligned, you weren't picturing it, you ... Long story short, you are not perfect, but you knew that! Oh, but you know those other 3 manifestations.. They happen irregardless. They're so simple an idiot can do it irregardless of the circumstance. Even when their raping women in their own congregation. Yes, even that doesn't stop you from manifesting. Oh the hypocrisy
  7. I'm going to have disagree on that on.. That's so 1600s... Today he would have said, You &^%#$ 67%@#*@^....
  8. Eagle, I appreciate your honesty.. But from my view, Schoenheit really has lost credibility, at least with me. Every interaction I have had with the man, ends up being he is unwilling to even mention one breath about about something different than his beliefs yet alone think differently. And there's plenty of old TWI beliefs he holds onto. The whole "adultery" paper I think is made more of a fiasco than it was. It wasn't "new truth" or "groundbreaking" research in any way. Just an basic honest biblical truth paper on a basic subject that was rejected and he got the boot for it. To give Schoenheit actually a medal for writing the paper, nah, he didn't know he'd be rung through the cleaners for it. And it wasn't anything "great". Maybe he's willing to discuss things with you, but I have yet had the opportunity. Oh, there have been plenty of opportunities I've tried, but Schoenheit himself sticks with what he thinks, and doesn't care to discuss otherwise unless it's just dissing other views. Humility is a big necessity to lead any "Christian" organization IMHO.. And I just have yet to see it from him. T&O
  9. Personally most of the things he puts out these days isn't worth much, IMHO.. His only worthwhile books were his early ones.. Rethinking the wineskins, the original Pagan Christianity (not co-authored), Who is your covering... Those are pretty decent.. The latest groups of books, Reimagining Church, How to start a ? church, the newer Pagan Christianity, etc, etc.. are more watered down.. Course, with the early books, you have to ignore most his ramblings about Apostles. That was when he was being mentored by Edwards in his cult group, and they had a very slanted view of one. It also was the cause of much devastation in the Edwards group, and specifically Viola's handling of a few home churches he "helped" spoil. Would make ol' VP proud, redefining terms and all to set yourself up as some MOG. But once Viola started to become a celebrity outside of Edwards group, and even within, he did much like ol Vic did, some power plays here and there, and soon, he left ol' Edwards and was given helm of a larger house church movement that usurped some of the Edwards group. Then Viola started a rewrite of his earlier books with more "politically correct" terminology, removing many of his views. Some good (like the apostolic junk) but others just to help solidify his celebrity position.
  10. Wasn't it during AC '98 that LCM got caught by some NOT in the know. And that produced a whole backlash of cover ups, write offs, and good byes?! I wished I would have had the learning they gleaned from the class! Keep your wife away from the MOG! Would have saved me a good number of years had I known!
  11. Being outside of God's will was TWI's problem.. Removing Christ as the proper head, rather than a doctor/reverend/pastors/elders/bishops/deacon/etc, is still their problem as well as their offshoots. And denomination's are not much better, IMHO.. I've been a part of, and seen too many other denominational congregations (Baptist and Assembly of God personally) be ripped to shreds by pastors gone astray. And it isn't until after decades, their worldly ways are found out and the devastation revealed to the rest of the congregation.. Not much different with ol Vic.
  12. Having associated extremely loosely with his previous "group" (the one he was being trained in when he wrote those books), which is a cult of it's own, although I can't say it was the reason Viola left. Differing opinions are a non-issue as long as Christ is your head, meaning you make him your Lord. As Christ is recorded as saying, "Why call me Lord, and yet don't do the things I say?". The cult he was a part of basically worshiped the books from this fictional book writer, Gene Edwards.. Viola was being mentored by him. I personally went a number of times because I had read Viola's books and wanted to talk to Viola personally who was known to visit this one house group from time to time where I lived. And while there isn't "hierarchy" so to speak in that group and now the "house movement" he is involved in, there is accountability within the church. There are elders among the church and within each gathering, but they are not suppose to be "over" the people or any portion of the church. Rather they are their as helpers and guides "within" for those who seek help, and they are to be on watch over what is happening and if things begin to move away from the things of Christ - they admonish the church back, but they have no power or authority except what the whole assembly allows. Course in practice it doesn't always work out that way. As as long as we all see the scriptures through the veiled eyes and perception we've been given ("as through a dark glass"), everyone has their own idea of "right".. And groups will always divide and form where pride and "my way" reigns. The latter being the purpose the book by Viola was written, to try and show how those end up removing the Lord from his rightful position as head in the body.
  13. Great book if you ask me.. VPW wanted control.. Wanted to be the head.. And we allowed it.. If anything, that book is all about removing the artificial heads that have decapitated and tried to usurp control over this one body God's called us to.. The best book of his to get would be the out of print "Rethinking the wineskins"..
  14. While I can't attest to any detail of where he received formal training.. I had heard him in the past tell of incidents from his college/seminary(?) years (unassociated with TWI) where he took formal theological courses and not some paper mill. I don't recall the college, but from his incidents, I would say he still holds the same view.. He thought they didn't have a clue then, and still thinks his view reigns supreme.
  15. I receive mailings.. But their still splinters.. Doing what normal splinters do. They try and insert themselves into people's lives even though no one wants them.. They harm most they touch.. Yup, nothing has changed.. LTF finished filming some boring class.. The only interesting part of it might be noticing how goofy the teacher and his "SMILE" shine and his weird hand movements.. And of course he is still hoping some "RICH" person might bless him with loads of cash so he can buy his own motorcoach, but in the meantime, he'll make do with people's handouts for plane tickets. STFI.. Well, their still stiff.. Losing members. Still trying to stop the gaping drain hole, but not dynamic enough to make it work yet. Changing their look here and there, but nothing enough to attract newbies that are willing to stay for much. And now, back to our regular broadcast.
  16. Fear.. Respect.. Awe.. Maybe this helps.. Maybe not.. Quoted from a Hebrew source: Personally, IMHO these guys have no respect or fear for God when they continue to cause chaos, and never accept responsibility for it. Maybe they are hoping God will overlook the mess behind them with their bright smile.
  17. But is it ever to late to dream a new one? My dream was squashed, but from it blossomed a new one. Maybe the same can happen for you!
  18. Well, you definitely called game 3... A slugfest it was.. Interestingly, the Rangers didn't win that. The Rangers only need to pull one more win out of that hat. Even with their "mediocre" pitching, they just might do it.
  19. I still recall being a WOW and given a face melting because I wanted to give someone the class fee so he could take it. How dare I not allow him to believe to raise his own dough. I did anyways, secretly.. Course, now that I think about it, it probably would have been better not to have indoctrinated him. What did I know! And when I was giving my notice to leave the Corps, that was one of my biggest complaints. They are run like a business, with no care for those in need. Only, I didn't get any objections. They agreed whole heartedly they were a business and giving stuff to people didn't, doesn't, and won't work. According to the then Prez, Rosie-lie, Wierwille tried, but it didn't work, so he turned it into a business, and they must continue in his footsteps.
  20. Thanks for clarifying.. Makes sense, the tensions that is for some of those things. Thanks! Although, I still have to admit, I don't see the tension in Jesus.. But maybe that's because I don't see a human and a divine in Jesus. Maybe I'm missing the "divine". Or maybe it's the fact that the word itself is too generic to describe anything IMHO that is based on reality and not Greek mythology.
  21. I agree, the "absent Christ" and removal or the "divine" function of Christ is not as good as the Trinity.. It was probably one of the most harmful things in fact, because with an absent Lord, who is our Lord, oh yes, the dufus from OK.. And while that was never said directly , it WAS said that he was our LEADER and Overseer and the one to whom God works through ultimately if we didn't hear God's voice the first time, thus setting him up as ... Lord. Of course, personally of all mankind, the one I don't see any tension in is Christ himself. Anymore than I actually see a "divine" component or a human component. I see one Christ. Is there a tension or 2 separate components that I miss? I do see a tension between the "divine" functioning and the human functioning. But that is in all man kind or even living thing. But then maybe I misunderstand you. Since you went from a quote about the "divine" component of Jesus to a "divine" functioning that Wierwille removed.
  22. I agree Abigail.. We have to be wiling to look. Willing to question. That's probably one of the most harmful things TWI teaches people. Keeping them from asking those questions, questioning, that first step that Eve supposedly screwed up in. Yes, it is the most healthy thing that even the different writings(Christian/Hebrew) talk about. For me, I see a God who created all things good and perfect. In the beginning. But then came choice. He gave us a choice. Without choice, the creation would have continued since the beginning. Functioning the way God designed it, perfect. Like a man creating a clock and all it's gears. It works. But try giving those gears the ability to do as they choose and you can't expect them all to choose to do what you created them to do. So Adam and Eve decided they didn't either. They decided the good God said was good, wasn't what they wanted was good, they chose to make their own set of good/evil Instead of the gear going right now, I'm going to go left. And we expect that clock to still work perfectly. Or the clock maker to just throw those gears in the trash. But for me, I trust He's a bit wiser then me. He has a reason. Whether it be God knows the broken gears decide later down the road to change their direction, or being just/righteous in allowing them the result of their choice which is eventual gear failure/death. Which leaves us asking why he lets all us suffer because that one gear that decides it wants to go haywire. Love comes to my mind. Just as a parent continues to love their kids despite them ignoring their parent, praying each day they might change. How many times have we heard a mother talk about how Johnny is such a good boy, he would never had killed those folks, he just was in the wrong place. A delusional mother most would think.. Or is it?
  23. I don't know JJ... Even when I was in TWI I can recall a few times, yes they were only few, but that the uppers admitted there was a mistake. They allowed it, and now we needed to stand together for the sake of the "CHURCH".. Typical drivel if you ask me when someone is caught, to try and save position, I mean face... I just don't buy it anymore. The true church(the people) don't need an organization to promote itself or Christ. I'm not saying an organization can't help, but it certainly isn't necessary IMHO, but at least 9 times out of 10 (I want to say all 10, but statistics.. lol), that organization ends up corrupt, if not from the original founders, then the successors..
  24. 21 PEOPLE that licked, err I mean liked him?! OMG.. Are they nuts! I think that same list of people should be taken the nearest asylum for checkups.
  25. Interesting topic.. Interesting thoughts.. Thanks everyone! Thanks Abigail for bringing it up! As for me.. I'll have to agree with socks that it's just too huge a universe to grasp it all.. I do think God is love (and just). Heck, I think the very definition of love is God. But then I probably screw the word up doing so. From the Hebrew word 'ahav'. Aleph Bet is the Father, and in the middle is the Hey.. The little guy with his hands waving, come and see! Come and see the Father.. The aleph, strong one of the bet, house. Yeah, well, ignore my rantings. So I'm mostly convinced God created this universe with love in mind. But at the same time I don't see how God's plan could ever be accomplished without pain and suffering. Maybe that's the chaos. I dunno. I don't think God's will is the pain and suffering. But, as I understand his plan(or my irrational idea of it), since creation, were to create those who would love and care for this earth and take care of one another. But as with the creation of light, comes the possibility of the negative, the darkness. Those who are selfish, unloving, carers only of themselves. And with that we have destiny in our hands to help or destroy. Sometimes we destory while trying to help. I think of while in TWI all those who had a good heart, but ended up hurting others. While those who aim to destroy sometimes help. Yet in the end you have those who lay traps for men/women. And those who aim to rid earth of those traps. All the while I think God desired the earlier to be gone, and maybe assists at times. But I'm weird in that I do think He limits himself, allowing them to destroy themselves till the end. And in the midst, we are stuck with traps laid by men that we fall into. But back to why.. I dunno.. Why doesn't this loving God keep us out of those traps. At least let us know before we fall in em. Maybe he did. Don't trust man! lol.. I dunno, all the stupid and idiotic things that happen to me, I see where I'm partially responsible. Made terrible choices. Didn't investigate enough. Damnit, I'm just naive, OK! I forget there's those booby traps everywhere. And I get caught. Why should I blame someone else for my own stupidity. But you're right, what about those caught in the 9/11 towers. Or the world wars.. I dunno. Too much death and destruction, can I just leave! As Paul said, I would rather to be out of this flesh and with Christ. But the world needs people to clear these there traps, you know. And death.. No, I don't see it so much an enemy. As a paraphrased Ecclesiastes talks about, those who died are blessed to not have to deal with the evil, yet it was even better had they never lived to see evil (I think, aborted fetuses - those lucky kids)! It's an enemy only in the sense that the world has one less light. Well, for some deaths. But the second death. Yes, I believe in the resurrections and a final death, the final extinguishing of what God didn't want when he created this thing. That enemy, that evil, that death that it all brings.. I can't wait till it's gone! And there I go raving again..
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