anotherDan

Well, TG, I'd like to add my welcome to Rainbowsgirl and others. Often people who come in here without "lurking" and reading for a long time get off on the wrong foot, because they don't understand the place. (Ask me how I know!) Maybe you've done a lot of reading already. A wonderful way to start out is to post to the "My Story" thread. Some of the stuff you posted, above, is a great icebreaker... some of what you've been through and what you're dealing with now. I would not be surprised if you found some real wonderful friends here. You don't have to write your whole story at once.... just a short introductory thing... others will greet, ask questions, etc, and you can fill in with subsequent posts. Something you've already said that struck a chord with me is about the altercation with your father. My father is not a believer, but I hit that same bump a while ago.... realizing that I was really not "living it," and, to be truthful, I realized that Jesus was NOT my lord (long story.... hey, it's YOUR thread!) -- not actively, anyway. The ministry's teaching of "no condemnation" was badly, badly flawed. "No sin consciousness"! My God! When I sin, I WANT to be conscious of it! But it's a process.... when all these things come tumbling at you, you feel like you've lost your foundation (and you have!) and it's easy to get swept up with what Paul called "overmuch sorrow." But not all you learned is wasted. God loved you, and He loves you. A beloved son, He corrects. I hope you hang around and that some of the folks here will be a real blessing to you. Love and peace, Dan Belle, the second link (on the other thread) does not work for me, either. I get a 404 not found.

scroll past the video... it's bad didn't like the live version, so I picked this Norah Jones I've Got To See You Again

this one

bump

"Triune God" (I have to put that in quotes, since I don't feel comfortable calling anyone that -- not even anyOne!) Thanks for dropping in. I'd be delighted to hear what you think about the subject. Dan

George beat me to the punch. "beady little eyes."

Larry, I emailed you October 15. Here's what it said: You never responded. What's up?

Thank you, Roy. I enjoyed pondering your new thread this morning. Only one part, I'd like to respond to, as you asked. It is in regard to God being light, "and in Him is no darkness at all." The Way ministry boxed that one up, too, and too tightly, I think. I will have to dwell further on your comment that darkness is "outside" of God, and this is the opportunity for Him to fill that too with His light, His love. But as you say, and as God himself says via John, "in Him" there is no darkness.

I hear that, Belle. Holding someone to their own code is quite reasonable. I worry sometimes that I'm not clear enough in my communications. I'm sure I appear to waffle or send mixed signals. Things do not appear to me in black and white, but shades of gray, and I try to understand and be fair to all. I'm sure there is much more to the story, on "both sides." I'd rather not impose on your time to assemble further documentation on the conflict. I'd feel like I had to read it all! But I appreciate the offer, and I may ask you in the future if I feel I need more info on a certain topic, or this one. I've come to appreciate you the more I get to know you.

Groucho, you make some valid points, and how you view me is up to you, as is how you view what DWBH is doing, and what John Lynn is doing. I would be pleased, by the way, if I was indeed pious. You apparently meant it as a judgment, though, that I seem to you to have a put-on pious appearance, without the substance of piety. This is often quoted in defense of the idea that teachers/leaders are "held to a higher standard." I'm not sure I agree with that any more. Perhaps that's what it does mean, that they will be judged "more strictly." But I think that that may be reading something into verse 1 that isn't there. Perhaps they are held to the SAME standard, but judged "more harshly" because they affect so many other people. Funny, the people who teach that sorta let the "little ones" off the hook, as if they're judged by a lower standard. Is that right? On another thread, someone implied that another GSer was a "nazi" simply because he'd been in the Corps at one time. Guilt by association. Maybe the accused did get caught up at times in ugly attitudes that wafted through the ministry and the Corps. Same thing happens here, you know. It's cool to judge leaders at the GSC. Protector of the people, you know. Hot stuff. Champion of the cause. Hold their feet to the fire. Power to the people. Way Corps and GSers, Catholics and wiccans -- I kinda think we'll all be held to the same standard. If we teach, is our teaching true? If we judge, is our judgment true? Whatever we do will be put to the test, and whatever remains after being tested will result in our reward. Everything else will be "burned." How Dr. Wierwille or Groucho or or John Lynn or anotherDan will fare is yet to be fully seen, though sometimes we get what we deserve right here and now. Obviously, the "crisis" at CES is the result of leadership who made mistakes, same as with the Way Ministry, and same as with Catholic priests/pedophiles. I've got no argument with that. That's good. And the CES leadership has apparently paid dearly for their education. People like DWBH may be an important part of the process. Dr. Juedes, Pawtucket, and others, I believe, have real ministries. Maybe DWBH is doing a great thing, here, too. My observation in my last post simply reflected a little pathos toward JL and others who are still, apparently, embattled, and, it would seem that it is because of their own blunders. They aired their dirty laundry here. They were harshly judged by people who posted. Maybe rightly in many ways. And now DWBH wants an update. My earlier comment in which I attempted to put myself in their shoes was intended to be frank, that when I am embattled myself, I sometimes avoid those who will judge me. That's all. Your point, Groucho, about being unafraid of inquiry is a fine virtue. I've tried to live that way myself. My impression is the JL did his best in the earlier thread to do that. I don't think he was trolling for converts, but trying to be open with how he was trying to make sense of the mess. If DWBH wants to keep knocking on their door with his demands for an update and further examination and judgment by the GS community, that is up to him. As I've said before, I wouldn't respond. That would be my call.

Yes, Larry, that is a condescending tone. Extremely.

good one (I think they are lipping it... sounds like the original recording, and there are no horns there) nice to see the vid anyway. Tom's up?

I need an emoticon called ::throws-up-hands:: Dan <--- raising holy hands

For various reasons, I show up where I'm loved and not where I'm judged and challenged. Sometimes it's just because I'm not ready to deal with it. Sometimes it's because the people who are "challenging" me and "holding me accountible" have their heads up their own azzes.

way cool

ooh ooh ooh

I think sometimes we just have to let people own their own problems / their own disfunctionality. You know, Larry, we're not trying to fix you, we're trying to be friends with you. (most of us, anyway) Functional relationships require functional participants. The amount of tolerance and good will that has been shown toward you is huge, and you apparently don't see it. We're all disfunctional in various ways. We're all trying to be "grown up" and "healthy." It's pretty hard for me! I'm very glad you returned, but not in the way you returned. I was hoping some distance would give you some good perspective... maybe a little soul-searching. What's happening is that you're hitting the same wall that was here before you left, and it's not the wall's fault. You may legitimately find fault with some people and some posts (if that's your aim) but the majority of the mass of the wall you're hitting is coming from a place in people's hearts that is honest and healthy. And these same folks are willing to forgive, to forbear, to be patient. But like Belle said, you're not recognizing your end of the responsibility. edit: WW, you are amazing. My respect for you has grown and grown.

I'd like to add something to what Paw said. The threads are often self-regulating, which is as it should be. The community works. But as you remember, Larry, you posted like 75 times in a "snipey" way (cowgirl... is that a word?) until the thread, which was not about you, became about you, because you so annoyed the community that was trying to discuss a subject. You didn't get that. You refused to hear what others were telling you, and it escalated until you got moderated. The system works. Now here you are playing the victim. You were the aggressor, bro. It's useful "processing" to interact with the range of personalities here at GS. Conflict is going to happen. People are at varying stages of healing and growth. But a measure of civility and care is necessary. There are boundaries. They're way out there; one would think Christians wouldn't even get near them, much less cross them.

Here's an original song by my daughter Sarah based upon Psalm 139: Wings of the Morning. Haven't posted this before. She's playing an original Fender Rhodes piano, which we no longer have. The second song is Sarah, too. (Volume is only half way up. Hover over speaker icon to adjust)

Telling someone who is bound in emotional pain to "get over it" is like telling an addict to quit, or a cancer patient to "get well." Uh, yeah, I'd like that! Could you tell me how? It is not a sin to be sick or hurt. Like Rascal said, it may be uncomfortable for others to be around the hurting person, but what a blessing when others love you enough to be "with you" in whatever you're going through. Getting "over it" is what we should, in fact, do, but it's not merely an act of the will. And repressing it, ignoring it, bottling it, denying it will never do. It needs to be dealt with and resolved. The Lord is truly the healer of broken hearts. As children of God, sometimes we have the privilege of cooperating with the Lord to bless or heal someone. But it's the Lord himself from whom all the blessings flow.

WG.... don't take any wooden nickels!

I tried to do that at Microsoft.com but there doesn't seem to be a link for WMP for Vista. Tried once and it wouldn't install. Have given up for now, and getting used to iTunes. But I used to use WMP for burning and playlists, and liked it. If anyone knows how I can download and install WMP for Vista, let me know. danhspot-signup@yahoo.com Hey, have y'all tried Pandora Radio on the web? My daughter turned me on to it. Type in an artist to start a new "radio station" that plays their music, and music like it. Under the window is a "guide us" button, choose "add more kinds of music" and type in other artists to add to the station. Outstanding! You can have multiple stations. Easy and free.

PB, My Windows Media Player took a crap, and I can't seem to fix it. Have to jump through hoops to listen to MP3s via iTunes. OK, I officially hate Vista. XP was better. Listened to three: Blue Bayou Come Monday Pretty Woman They all sounded great. Clean recordings at decent levels. Voice and guitar nicely done. I'm a duffer on both guitar and recording, so I know how hard it is! I used to do open mic nights for a while. Thanks for sharing. I'll check out the others later. Dan EDIT: pretty neat filesharing site. I uploaded my cover of Lisa Tracy's "Treasure in an Earthen Vessel"

Nicole, I'm glad you posted your perspective. It's helped me to see things in a better light, and I wish you all the best in your journey.

I know what THAT feels like (somewhere, as a distant memory!) (((((((( abi )))))))))