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Do any of you guys know about any letters sent out by the Way of GB about dismissing Geer?

Geer is rearing his ugly head in the states and I would like something to slow him down.

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Yeah, you guys, what is really going on in the UK that we haven't heard? Does Geer still have a following there? What is his status? Is he still considered the MOG or what?

It's hard for us in the US to get word of him.

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"Slow him down"? Paw, are you joking? Try... a rocket launcher into outer space. That'd get rid of him.

He has caused a lot of hurt here.

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What did he do? Most of what he did in Europe, we haven't heard.

There is a situation happening in Florida right now that places Geer in the middle of domestic violence.

I'd like to understand. And venting is a good process. I won't make anything public without asking you first.

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I think that Chris announced on a tape that he was planning on resigning from the WIGB and gave his reasons why on the tape. I'll try and dig out the tape if I can find it. If I can find it, I may be able to send you a partial transcript.

However, you have to realise that although Chris was technically an employee, he was pretty much considered by most people to be the man at the top in Europe. So when he left he took some of the European Corps with him.

If I remember right he claimed that the WIGB were looking for a reason to dismiss him, or at least that was the only reason that he could think of for them behaving the way they did, so he decided to pre-empt this by leaving first.

I never heard anything about Chris being arrested in the UK.

I've heard second hand that one of the girls who was in residence at Gartm0re was subject to abuse but I've never heard that Chris was involved with this. She lives in the States now and it's difficult to talk to her because she doesn't want to talk much.

I was never resident in Gartm0re, but I did go up for a few classes and things, including Chris's live Advanced Class.

I'm totally in favour of bringing everything out into the open, but we have to be careful to be sure that rumours can be substantiated by first hand accounts.

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Pete,

So when Geer left The Way Int., did most of Europe follow him, or stay with TWI?

Does Geer have any influence in Europe, especially the UK, currently? I suppose someone must be supporting him and his organization. I'm just wondering how prevalent his influence is among exwayfers there.

Is it the later corps who finished their training at Gartmore who support him now? And there any of the corps who were trained in the US still with him?

I know I have lotz of questions, but you know how nosy I am. :spy:

It's hard to get a sense of what happened in Europe after Pop. It's fairly easy to see what happened in the US, from an American perspective.

I have always wondered why on earth an American was sent to run things at Garmore?

Anyway, thanks for talking, Pete. :love3:

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At the time, I didn't know much about what was going on. These issues were not talked about as it was considered unedifying.

As far as I was aware, the Way in Great Br1tain was subservient to the Way Internat1onal. Robert W1lkinson was answerable to VP. At least you would think that given the public face presented.

I personally never thought of CG as having left TWI. The problem was between personalities at the top as far as I knew. CG never publically criticised Craig or the BOTs other than what was said in POP, and the subsequent follow ups. He didn't exhibit the same kind of ranting that Craig let off. In fact I believe he deliberately avoided lashing into Craig and others.

There was never a choice (as far as I am aware) for people at twig level who weren't accredited Corps, and if there was a choice to be made, it was never communicated to me.

As far as I remember, there were very few people who actually graduated from the Corps in Gartmore.

I remember one year that three people got to read out from their thesis (I think) at a meeting and I gathered from this that they were the only three to graduate that year, but I could be wrong on that. One of them was my WOW sister.

I don't have much to do now with people who are still with CG. I get a sick feeling in my gut whenever I'm near one of them. I'm not sure if my WOW sister is still with CG. Since I haven't had much to do with them in the past 5+ years I've lost touch with what some of them are up to now. Maybe I'll talk to Mike R and get the lowdown. Watch this space.

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I can only let you know what i had experienced,

In the late 80's, there was a split, Gartmoor went one way WIGB

and TWI went another, we ourselves were only a part of TWI, we had the leadership tapes

and were told not to have anything to do with the Gartmoor crowd, as far as i know there

is no Gartmoor anymore, gartmoor was sold off, and no-one knows where the money went,

I do know the way international tried to win court cases to get the money from the sale of gartmoor

but lost and didnt recieve a penny, but i do know that TWI is still up and running here in the UK,

the headquarters are in Southampton, and is being run by, reese miller and grace, they run it for

the way international in new knoxville, also bob moyihan is involved there also as he was

seen there at a meeting one weekend when they were trying to recruit old way believers.

I didnt attend but a very good friend of mine did he went just to see what was going on.

this is all i know for the moment.

Edited by marypoppins

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Mary Poppins

Hope you have a jolly holiday in Finland and welcome to the European area! :)

It's interesting to hear your side of the story.

Did you hang out with Trendy then?

I thought WIGB owned Gartm0re? But you say there was a split between WIGB and Gartm0re. How did that work, then? Do you mean a split between WIGB and CG?

I was on the CG side of the fence back then, but we weren't told not to have anything to do with TWI as far as I remember. We just hung out with the CG crowd. Then there was another disruption when JL came along - we were told not to have anything to do with him, and definitely NOT to read his letter. Anyone who read his letter was in BIG trouble because they'd had their minds POISONED. OMG!

You'll have to tell us about Finland. Are you meeting HP, EP & family?

Ex10 is busy with a BBQ so she might not be on here right now. Hope she saves me some ribs!

Nice to see you here, say hi to L.

Cheers!

Pete

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:offtopic:

Hey Pete

Can we do our next Greasespot BBQ at your house? :)

I'll bring J and he'll be the grill meister. And your lovely Mrs. and I will chatter about with everyone. And you can be in charge of Beer. ;)

Back to our regularly scheduled program........

Edited by ex10

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Hmmm ....... I like the idea of being in charge of the beer. Alright then.

Can't do it at our house as all the neighbours are too close and don't like everyone talking at 4 o'clock in the morning. I may have an alternative venue where we can all stay which has a big kitchen and a barbecue.

I will check out some possible dates.

:beer:

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Just an update on CGs resignation: the tape on which he announced his resignation was played at fellowship meetings and I believe that the tape had to be posted back to him after it had been played. That explains why I don't have a copy.

The tape went into a few things but without really explaining all the facts. One thing mentioned was that the WIGB apparently told CG that he had to go for a meeting with them (possibly a disciplinary hearing?) on a date which they already knew he had planned to be out of the country, and he implies that they were doing this as an excuse to fire him when he didn't attend. So he was pre-empting their actions by resigning himself.

According to RAW, CG was asking them to adopt policies that, if adopted, would result in the possiblity of the charities commission stepping in, closing down the company and seizing/transferring all their assets.

I suppose that CG would benefit from this as he would mop up the loose believers after the WIGB was closed down, but this is just speculation on my part. Maybe RAW could fill in the missing pieces, although he wouldn't explain much to me over the phone when I asked him for all the details (that was some time ago). There was a meeting held by the WIGB at about that time to explain to people what was going on, but I didn't go as I was involved in a CG fellowship at the time and it was sort of a loyalty thing - anyone know anybody that was there?

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Paw - sorry for the delay in replying - I've not done much internetting recently. Can't get on due to teenage daughter, etc. Will have to get a laptop, I think.

OK, I've not really given you the full background from my point of view.

At one point, RA Wilk..n stepped down as "spiritual leader" for TWIGB, although he continued as a director and had a house fellowship in Macclesfield, UK. I suppose I just assumed that everything was happening for a good reason and never thought for one minute that there was a lot of politics going on behind the scenes.

C K*nt was a strong leader in TWIGB and had/has a lot of respect at grass roots level. He lived not far from Robert. Once when I spoke to him it became obvious that there was a problem between him and CG, although specifics weren't discussed.

So RA Wil..n continued to take legal responsibility, although he presumably didn't want the spiritual responsibility (go figure it out, I can't). So CG was at that point effectively the spiritual leader for the UK and for the European Corps for anyone not directly linked to TWI, although technically, as an employee, he answered to RAW. CG started to issue weekly audio tapes from Gartm0re which came to replace the ones sent from TWI for many. This happened whilst he was still in the employ of the WIGB. He also distributed audio courses taught by himself, and books which he edited from VP's teachings. In addition, there were, at one time, live Advanced Classes taught by CG at Gartm0re which also included as part of the course recorded classes by WA Cumm1ns and (incredibly) LCM.

There were many who felt a bond of fellowship to CG, and those who considered him to be the MOG.

I think that "Future Considerations" was set up by CG whilst he was still employed by the WIGB. The original company was superseded by "Word Promotions", I think.

I've also found that people who were close to what was going on are unwilling to discuss the details of what happened. Perhaps partly because we've always been taught not to magnify the negatives. Partly, perhaps, because they might themselves be incriminated by the facts, who knows?

I'm going to have to go back and try and put some dates to these events so that they can be presented in chronological order. It's obviously very confusing just reading the above. I'll have to review this and put it in a more digestible form, but this goves you some of the background to be chewing on.

Cheers

Pete

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This is a great overview, thanks.

As the goings on over here were unknown to you, the same was for us with goings on over there.

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After PoP, TWI demanded the return of all their books and materials. This was everything to which TWI held copyright or published through American Christian Press. Eventually and only after the threat of legal proceedings, a huge crate of publications - VPW books, class materials, and the like - were all returned to HQ.

The legal proceedings that were threatened included threats to complain to the Charities Commission and have them investigate WayGB or WayUK or whatever it was called at that point (others were later appointed loyal to TWI but not as a legally incorporated organisation, and it became the other, Way UK or WayGB).

But no doubt by then CG had copied (or simply retained) at least one copy of every publication so that he could plagiarise the plagiariser.

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Paw

I don't know about that. I'd heard that he had some material that VP had given to him, but I only heard this second hand.

Many congratulations for the new site layout. It looks fab!

Pete

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Slightly "off topic" but ...

I've just been packing to move home and - you know those padded envelopes you can buy - they're always useful to keep. I dug into my bag of padded envelopes and pulled out a useful one and as I was packing something into it, noticed it was from WayGB - Gartmore(!). The postage strip across the top proudly announced:

"Europe's first line of Defence - the Power for Abundant Living Class"

in a nice prominent box, the place where a firm's logo or name and return address might sit.

Europe's first line of defence? HELLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!

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I heard something that VP gave Geer the European rights to all his books.

In fall of 1986 Geer held a meeting of all clergy at way world in Ohio. He reamed out Craig and the board of trustees and I think (memory fades after a while) that's when he put 2 more people on the board - Townsend and Cabalero. After that Craig and the gang were compliant to Geer for a while. I suspect they would have put him in charge of the whole enchalada if he'd asked for it but he didn't.

My understanding was that in that compliant time, they gave him European copyrights to all the the way stuff. I bet they regretted it later.

Pete and others - thanks for sharing more of the time line of what happened in Great Britain after that.

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Guest Guest_Daggoo_*

This past Summer CG "separated himself" from his followers in Maine. He told me this.

He goes to Scotland once a month or so (has apt. in Glascow), others fly in from Scotland to Maine.

He has income ftrom something and published a two-volume book recently.

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In fall of 1986 Geer held a meeting of all clergy at way world in Ohio. He reamed out Craig and the board of trustees and I think (memory fades after a while) that's when he put 2 more people on the board - Townsend and Cabalero. After that Craig and the gang were compliant to Geer for a while. I suspect they would have put him in charge of the whole enchalada if he'd asked for it but he didn't.

My understanding was that in that compliant time, they gave him European copyrights to all the the way stuff. I bet they regretted it later.

Pete and others - thanks for sharing more of the time line of what happened in Great Britain after that.

I heard LCM say he was ready to give it up. He was walking over to the OSC to turn in his resignation. Then he says he runs in to a woman along the way who said "God bless you Rev. Martindale." He said those words made him realize that the ministry needed him, and he changed his mind about resigning.

He was pretty vicious about CG. It was then he came up with "CG has familiar spirits" and all that crap.

My sister went the CG route, and I went the LCM route. Today we both realize they were both crazy.

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This past Summer CG "separated himself" from his followers in Maine.

Can you eloborate on this??

Did he separate from his fellowship that he runs where he lives, or the whole of Maine?  And for what reasons, was he too busy, or he doesn't want to be with them?

What is the two volume book about?

Do you know if he's put together the advanced class he's been working on for the last 23 years?

If so, is the content a carbon copy of the vicsters?

Is he lightening up at all regarding his hero worship of his father in da verd?

Thanks...

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This past Summer CG "separated himself" from his followers in Maine.

How is it I can just smell the arrogance of the *man*..

it just sounds like a ploy the vicster would use.. "wah wah, you all don't really believe me.. I'll "unbless" you by removing my presence, and go somewhere else.."

I'm suprised anybody else would receive him with open arms..

I think probably about the only reason he can even function.. he flies as low as he can below internet radar.

Looks like, not for much longer..

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How is it I can just smell the arrogance of the *man*..

it just sounds like a ploy the vicster would use.. "wah wah, you all don't really believe me.. I'll "unbless" you by removing my presence, and go somewhere else.."

I'm suprised anybody else would receive him with open arms..

I think probably about the only reason he can even function.. he flies as low as he can below internet radar.

Looks like, not for much longer..

Bumpy wishes to report rodent “body” parts (sorry Ham!) have been discovered under the family Jaguar in Western, New York…that’s Buffalo Bills Country for the uneducated! Back to France with Zarko on Sunday! Love to all at GSC! Le Bump

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