The really great things I learned from PFAL were things I realized after leaving TWI. Like the life lessons one can garner after surviving some traumatic event. I will NEVER make the same mistake again! The poison of PFAL resides in some of its content, and some in its application. The following points qualify a successful PFAL graduate by challenging them to meet certain criteria:
1. The greatest sin a PFAL grad can commit: doubting PFAL.
2. The unforgivable sin of any PFAL grad: letting people know the teacher is a sexual predator.
3. The PFAL grad's basic spiritual problem is becoming aware of the lack of integrity of the teacher. Once a grad overcomes that "problem" – there are no other problems.
4. The PFAL grad learns to create their own "reality" through the law of believing equals perceiving. Though nothing actually changes in the real world, the perception by the grad that they can manipulate reality is all that matters.
5. The PFAL grad learns to interpret the Bible by being well versed in PFAL principles, always in the context of PFAL or by a previous teaching using PFAL principles.
6. The PFAL grad learns to receive anything from God, one must: Know what PFAL says is available, know how PFAL says to get it, know what PFAL says you should do with it after you've got it, have TWI's needs and wants parallel with PFAL principles, and believe mastering PFAL makes God willing and able to grant your every wish.
7. The PFAL grad believes the greatest secret in the world today is that PFAL is the will of God. And that VPW has some purpose for the things he says, where he says it, why he says it, how he says it, to whom he says it, when he says it - and doesn't care if he plagiarized it.
Based on the above criteria I have since disqualified myself from being a successful PFAL grad by reason of sanity.
ya know Socks, you could have just left it at that..
I learned you can re-use disposable coffee cups.
( If you can find a way to get the lipstick stains off 'em)
I mean--------REALLY!-------------Who'da ever thunk it?
Hey.. I was one of the poor saps that had to drink "stretched" coffee out of those things, and some of them still had lipstick stains on them, some even had bite marks..
In all fairness.. I think it is pretty close to reality.
7. The PFAL grad believes the greatest secret in the world today is that PFAL is the will of God. And that VPW has some purpose for the things he says, where he says it, why he says it, how he says it, to whom he says it, when he says it - and doesn't care if he plagiarized it.
I remember people sitting around counting how many times the vicster said "christ in you" or "throughly perfected" trying to attach some kind of spiritual significance to it..
or trying to analyze the class with "structures" like Bullinger did with the bible..
I remember sitting through the class, and thinking "well, what's the big deal.." when's the big payoff? Spiritiual wisdom and understanding? Mind blowing "revelation"?
"well, maybe you're not ready to really see what's in da class. Some people have to take it a number of times before Gawd can really get through to them.."
after about six or seven times, I had the thing practically memorized.. still, there was never a "rebirth" of understanding, or anything like that..
I remember sitting through the class, and thinking "well, what's the big deal.." when's the big payoff? Spiritiual wisdom and understanding? Mind blowing "revelation"?
Hamm, what particular (drug) nut were you chewing on at the time? The "payoff" was always in their lifestyle & maybe a little investment fund on the side??
How much do you think twi invested of everyone's money? Anyone know?
T-Bone, what a negative summary! How long did it take to figure out?
Thanks, Bumpy…As far as my points being negative – that’s just my viewpoint as an ex-TWIt. Someone who is still in TWI would find the list positive…perhaps even using the list to help him or her set some goals …I came up with the list in about 3 minutes - reflecting on some PFAL highlights, I then translated them into a typical PFAL grad experience.
Thanks, Bumpy…As far as my points being negative – that’s just my viewpoint as an ex-TWIt. Someone who is still in TWI would find the list positive…perhaps even using the list to help him or her set some goals …I came up with the list in about 3 minutes - reflecting on some PFAL highlights, I then translated them into a typical PFAL grad experience.
Hi T-Bone!
Do you realize we joined GS almost 1 year and 1300 members apart? 3 minutes, that's fast! Have you ever ridden on the back of a Triumph Daytona '68? It's a great California roadbike, especially when chromed-out! 0-100 in less than 3 min.
Do you realize we joined GS almost 1 year and 1300 members apart? 3 minutes, that's fast! Have you ever ridden on the back of a Triumph Daytona '68? It's a great California roadbike, especially when chromed-out! 0-100 in less than 3 min.
Hi Bumpy…So, you joined about a year after me – guess that makes me your older brother on GSC – which means you get hand-me-down coffee mugs …
Well, 3 minutes brainstorming time may seem fast to some folks – but check out the initial post time of my post # 52 – 1:21 PM…Now check out the final edit time – 1:41 PM…Sometimes I'll get ideas fast like a rabbit but edit at a turtle's pace. I've been known to edit a post long after the life has been wrung out of it .
I once road a friend's Triumph. I couldn't get used to the gear shift pedal being on the opposite side. At the time I owned a Yamaha 250 Street Scrambler – bought it used. It was sort of my W.O.W. motorcycle – no fuel pump [had to premix gas/oil] and it would foul out spark plugs if I didn't have the Volkswagen baffles in the tailpipe tuned just right…Similar to my writing process – that bike could tear up the road – but man oh man, a pit stop could eat up half a day.
It's fun but now and again your stomach wants to fly out of your nose.
Thanks also LIKEANEAGLE
Glad I'm not alone in some of my sentiments.
I appreciate your postings.
Hey exwaycorps...I hear all that you say. I think that some of the most wonderful people I ever met, had the privilege to know, still know, and now are filed under good memories, are from my years in the corps. The teachings from PFAL are part of me, integrated into who I am but not excluding me from new thoughts or contemplating ideas/viewpoints as having validity. What I am very thankful for now is not to have to aim the doctrinal shotgun. 'Cause I know now that I don't know it all, not even close.
I was a Christian before taking pfal, and since my upbringing was Baptist, I already believed "once saved always saved" = incorruptable seed. The trinity never made sense to me when I was growing up and I still don't believe Jesus Christ is God, but I certainly don't believe I'm any better than the people who think he is. I still believe the dead aren't alive now, but who knows?
I was so excited to have some "rock solid" answers in pfal, then after leaving twi I was equally exasperated to find out that there were so many errors (like the law of believing). I haven't given up on God, I just don't feel like I have to spend the rest of my life searching for answers. My theme is pretty much "farther along we'll know all about it"...
4. The PFAL grad learns to create their own "reality" through the law of believing equals perceiving. Though nothing actually changes in the real world, the perception by the grad that they can manipulate reality is all that matters.
I believe that things DO change in the real world. I have seen the dead raised, the sick healed, the mentally ill restored to sanity, etc. through the power of prayer and the truths contained in the Bible. I'm not sure that I (or any other Christian) can manipulate reality. I do believe that I have access to God through prayer and He CAN manipulate reality.
I remember much that I learned in PFAL with great fondness. As I have said before, I grew up in a very narrow-minded family and church, and most of what I learned in PFAL was very liberating for me (incorruptible seed, JC is not God, the dead are not alive, speaking in tongues, etc.).
It was a baby that fell into a swimming pool, and was underwater for approxiamately ten minutes. I am at least willing to leave the door open for the possibility that she woke up and experienced no brain damage was due to a miraculous intervention. BTW, she never received CPR. I have heard of other occurances from people I respect; also from people I do not respect and tend to discount their stories.
How many still believe four were crucified with christ and Peter denied Christ six times? How many believe the devil can get people born again of himself? How many still believe an actual born-again Christian can be possessed?
Just wondering...When I first took the class...to learn that I could get born again and have eternal life I was amazed!
To learn that Jesus Christ is not God...That made the perfect sense. To learn that when I die, I don't go to Heaven right away also made the perfect sense. These are really big things I never knew before the class and teach my children these truths.
I've heard there was alot of errors in PFAL, but these few things...do you still believe them to be true? Just wondering...
I don't believe any of it anymore. Every day I'm reminded of something from it and have to grab hold of reality.
It's really annoying.
Maybe the only valuable thing I still hold onto that Vic taught was "either you believe it all or chuck the whole thing" good advise I chucked the whole thing.
I remember sitting through the class, and thinking "well, what's the big deal.." when's the big payoff? Spiritiual wisdom and understanding? Mind blowing "revelation"?
It's interesting that you say that, because it was all the little details that impressed me. I had never seen anyone take so much time to talk about the specifics of the Bible, having come from one of those churches where the paster read 2-4 verses, closed the book and talked for 45 minutes on the "life lessons" of those verses.
However, I'm with you on the rest:
"well, maybe you're not ready to really see what's in da class. Some people have to take it a number of times before Gawd can really get through to them.."
after about six or seven times, I had the thing practically memorized.. still, there was never a "rebirth" of understanding, or anything like that..
There are only so many times you can sit through it without wanting to curl up and take a nap!!
I heard about a pig that got raised from the dead. The story goes someone needed to sell the pig for $ to attend the ROA, but then the pig died so they raised it from the dead so they could sell it for $ to attend the Rock.
Gotta ask this.
... How many still believe an actual born-again Christian can be possessed?
How many still believe four were crucified with christ and Peter denied Christ six times?
I guess I do because I don't know enough to argue against it, and, I don't really see why it's important anyway. So I haven't looked into those two things at all.
How many believe the devil can get people born again of himself? How many still believe an actual born-again Christian can be possessed?
If there is a devil I don't know what powers he really does or does not have. I would assume he influences people somehow.
It doesn`t take pfal to see a baby brought back from drowning. My friends 2 yr old was found submerged and unresponsive, and it had been far longer than ten miniutes......and they nobody in that group were grads. Yeah ...thank God, it was miraculous....but not due to anybodies operation of particular formulas or prayers.
Some times they make it, sometimes as in the case of my husbands baby brother ...they don`t. Special knowledge doesn`t seem to be a factor.
The thing that I see in hind sight is that so many many people took that class became arrogant in their *knowledge* We had ALL the answeres to life and Godliness donchaknow?
The results were sporadic, at best.
It was nearly 20 years later before I saw God start working again ...and that was when I admitted that I really knew nothing.
Knowledge puffeth up ...I get it now
All of that knowledge and all of those scriptures learned and all of those principles operated didn`t help prevent people from becoming incredibly evil, nor inspire them with the heart of a true christian to love one another.
We knew the word, we didn`t HAVE to act as a christian. It was ok to destroy and consume one another like ravening wolves....
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Mark Clarke
I still believe those few things, with one qualification. We were taught we didn't go to heaven "right away" as you put it. But they were rather vague about what happens in the end. I believe we do
Catcup
Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God.
GrouchoMarxJr
Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not
T-Bone
The really great things I learned from PFAL were things I realized after leaving TWI. Like the life lessons one can garner after surviving some traumatic event. I will NEVER make the same mistake again! The poison of PFAL resides in some of its content, and some in its application. The following points qualify a successful PFAL graduate by challenging them to meet certain criteria:
1. The greatest sin a PFAL grad can commit: doubting PFAL.
2. The unforgivable sin of any PFAL grad: letting people know the teacher is a sexual predator.
3. The PFAL grad's basic spiritual problem is becoming aware of the lack of integrity of the teacher. Once a grad overcomes that "problem" – there are no other problems.
4. The PFAL grad learns to create their own "reality" through the law of believing equals perceiving. Though nothing actually changes in the real world, the perception by the grad that they can manipulate reality is all that matters.
5. The PFAL grad learns to interpret the Bible by being well versed in PFAL principles, always in the context of PFAL or by a previous teaching using PFAL principles.
6. The PFAL grad learns to receive anything from God, one must: Know what PFAL says is available, know how PFAL says to get it, know what PFAL says you should do with it after you've got it, have TWI's needs and wants parallel with PFAL principles, and believe mastering PFAL makes God willing and able to grant your every wish.
7. The PFAL grad believes the greatest secret in the world today is that PFAL is the will of God. And that VPW has some purpose for the things he says, where he says it, why he says it, how he says it, to whom he says it, when he says it - and doesn't care if he plagiarized it.
Based on the above criteria I have since disqualified myself from being a successful PFAL grad by reason of sanity.
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Ham
Hey.. I was one of the poor saps that had to drink "stretched" coffee out of those things, and some of them still had lipstick stains on them, some even had bite marks..
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Bumpy
T-Bone, what a negative summary! How long did it take to figure out?
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Ham
In all fairness.. I think it is pretty close to reality.
I remember people sitting around counting how many times the vicster said "christ in you" or "throughly perfected" trying to attach some kind of spiritual significance to it..
or trying to analyze the class with "structures" like Bullinger did with the bible..
no kidding.
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Ham
I remember sitting through the class, and thinking "well, what's the big deal.." when's the big payoff? Spiritiual wisdom and understanding? Mind blowing "revelation"?
"well, maybe you're not ready to really see what's in da class. Some people have to take it a number of times before Gawd can really get through to them.."
after about six or seven times, I had the thing practically memorized.. still, there was never a "rebirth" of understanding, or anything like that..
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Bumpy
Hamm, what particular (drug) nut were you chewing on at the time? The "payoff" was always in their lifestyle & maybe a little investment fund on the side??
How much do you think twi invested of everyone's money? Anyone know?
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Ham
I kinda thought the almonds tasted a little "funny".. hmm.
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T-Bone
Thanks, Bumpy…As far as my points being negative – that’s just my viewpoint as an ex-TWIt. Someone who is still in TWI would find the list positive…perhaps even using the list to help him or her set some goals …I came up with the list in about 3 minutes - reflecting on some PFAL highlights, I then translated them into a typical PFAL grad experience.
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Bumpy
Hi T-Bone!
Do you realize we joined GS almost 1 year and 1300 members apart? 3 minutes, that's fast! Have you ever ridden on the back of a Triumph Daytona '68? It's a great California roadbike, especially when chromed-out! 0-100 in less than 3 min.
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T-Bone
Hi Bumpy…So, you joined about a year after me – guess that makes me your older brother on GSC – which means you get hand-me-down coffee mugs …
Well, 3 minutes brainstorming time may seem fast to some folks – but check out the initial post time of my post # 52 – 1:21 PM…Now check out the final edit time – 1:41 PM…Sometimes I'll get ideas fast like a rabbit but edit at a turtle's pace. I've been known to edit a post long after the life has been wrung out of it .
I once road a friend's Triumph. I couldn't get used to the gear shift pedal being on the opposite side. At the time I owned a Yamaha 250 Street Scrambler – bought it used. It was sort of my W.O.W. motorcycle – no fuel pump [had to premix gas/oil] and it would foul out spark plugs if I didn't have the Volkswagen baffles in the tailpipe tuned just right…Similar to my writing process – that bike could tear up the road – but man oh man, a pit stop could eat up half a day.
[edited just to prove my point - ]
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debbieb
Hey exwaycorps...I hear all that you say. I think that some of the most wonderful people I ever met, had the privilege to know, still know, and now are filed under good memories, are from my years in the corps. The teachings from PFAL are part of me, integrated into who I am but not excluding me from new thoughts or contemplating ideas/viewpoints as having validity. What I am very thankful for now is not to have to aim the doctrinal shotgun. 'Cause I know now that I don't know it all, not even close.
Love you
d
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JavaJane
WELCOME, debbieb!!
Can I get the head waitress over here to get ya a cup of coffee?
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tonto
Hi Doreen,
I was a Christian before taking pfal, and since my upbringing was Baptist, I already believed "once saved always saved" = incorruptable seed. The trinity never made sense to me when I was growing up and I still don't believe Jesus Christ is God, but I certainly don't believe I'm any better than the people who think he is. I still believe the dead aren't alive now, but who knows?
I was so excited to have some "rock solid" answers in pfal, then after leaving twi I was equally exasperated to find out that there were so many errors (like the law of believing). I haven't given up on God, I just don't feel like I have to spend the rest of my life searching for answers. My theme is pretty much "farther along we'll know all about it"...
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Jeaniam
I believe that things DO change in the real world. I have seen the dead raised, the sick healed, the mentally ill restored to sanity, etc. through the power of prayer and the truths contained in the Bible. I'm not sure that I (or any other Christian) can manipulate reality. I do believe that I have access to God through prayer and He CAN manipulate reality.
I remember much that I learned in PFAL with great fondness. As I have said before, I grew up in a very narrow-minded family and church, and most of what I learned in PFAL was very liberating for me (incorruptible seed, JC is not God, the dead are not alive, speaking in tongues, etc.).
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excathedra
who have you seen raised from the dead, please ?
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Jeaniam
It was a baby that fell into a swimming pool, and was underwater for approxiamately ten minutes. I am at least willing to leave the door open for the possibility that she woke up and experienced no brain damage was due to a miraculous intervention. BTW, she never received CPR. I have heard of other occurances from people I respect; also from people I do not respect and tend to discount their stories.
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excathedra
thank you jeanyam
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Eagle
Gotta ask this.
How many still believe four were crucified with christ and Peter denied Christ six times? How many believe the devil can get people born again of himself? How many still believe an actual born-again Christian can be possessed?
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Seth R.
I don't believe any of it anymore. Every day I'm reminded of something from it and have to grab hold of reality.
It's really annoying.
Maybe the only valuable thing I still hold onto that Vic taught was "either you believe it all or chuck the whole thing" good advise I chucked the whole thing.
Seth
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TheHighWay
It's interesting that you say that, because it was all the little details that impressed me. I had never seen anyone take so much time to talk about the specifics of the Bible, having come from one of those churches where the paster read 2-4 verses, closed the book and talked for 45 minutes on the "life lessons" of those verses.
However, I'm with you on the rest:
There are only so many times you can sit through it without wanting to curl up and take a nap!!
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What The Hey
I heard about a pig that got raised from the dead. The story goes someone needed to sell the pig for $ to attend the ROA, but then the pig died so they raised it from the dead so they could sell it for $ to attend the Rock.
Well, if you're refering to yourself ...
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Bolshevik
I guess I do because I don't know enough to argue against it, and, I don't really see why it's important anyway. So I haven't looked into those two things at all.
If there is a devil I don't know what powers he really does or does not have. I would assume he influences people somehow.
I hear he eats dust and crawls on his belly.
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Imagine
I don't care if there were four crucified with Christ.
I don't care how many denials Peter made.
I don't care if you go to heaven when you die.
I don't care if there is a trinity.
I don't care if I am a possessed Christian or just a troubled one.
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rascal
It doesn`t take pfal to see a baby brought back from drowning. My friends 2 yr old was found submerged and unresponsive, and it had been far longer than ten miniutes......and they nobody in that group were grads. Yeah ...thank God, it was miraculous....but not due to anybodies operation of particular formulas or prayers.
Some times they make it, sometimes as in the case of my husbands baby brother ...they don`t. Special knowledge doesn`t seem to be a factor.
The thing that I see in hind sight is that so many many people took that class became arrogant in their *knowledge* We had ALL the answeres to life and Godliness donchaknow?
The results were sporadic, at best.
It was nearly 20 years later before I saw God start working again ...and that was when I admitted that I really knew nothing.
Knowledge puffeth up ...I get it now
All of that knowledge and all of those scriptures learned and all of those principles operated didn`t help prevent people from becoming incredibly evil, nor inspire them with the heart of a true christian to love one another.
We knew the word, we didn`t HAVE to act as a christian. It was ok to destroy and consume one another like ravening wolves....
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