Guilt Trips

[Suda]

I’ve been posting at GSC for about 18 months now, and have been reflecting on what it has meant to me. My core beliefs about things spiritual, ethical, and moral are still the same. What I have gained is an insight into how and why different posters have come to the myriad of spiritual beliefs due to their time in both twi and the GSC. The reconciliations I have worked through have yielded a greater peace and confidence in my heart regarding my own beliefs, and an ability to comprehend very divergent beliefs from mine without a need to defend my own or feel threatened by theirs. It has brought more peace, understanding, and tolerance into my home.

Opinions of mine that have changed have come via reconciling the huge variances in experiences people underwent during their tenure with twi. And seeing that because of those experiences, they have come out on the other end with beliefs that fall along a very lengthy continuum. Where we land on that continuum is unique and personal to each of us. It is a culmination of a multitude of variables against which we weighed information and how we worked through the reconciliation process. There’s no “right” place to land on the continuum, there are merely landing sites that suit us at this particular time. And after further examination of additional information, our place on the continuum may continue to shift.

One particular matter I had trouble understanding was how and why people “surrendered” to the twi organization. The more I read, the more I see that it was a very gradual process and was probably imperceptible to, or suppressed by duress by, those who underwent it. Although I heard the threats of “if you leave the household (meaning twi), you will walk away from the protection of God, and your life will be ruined and/or destroyed”, and the like, I never bought into them. They went straight into the circular filing cabinet under “Bull Crap”, never even going through the “abeyance” filter. But why? It’s certainly not because I’m such a smart cookie (because I am not!). It must be because I am as stubborn as a mule when people try to send me on a guilt trip.

I can think of two, maybe three, guilt trips I bought into temporarily. And after that, I had reached my fill, and refused to go on anymore. The last one was not the worst one, but it sticks out in my mind because it is the one where I drew my line in the sand and said “Never again, no more.” I’ll give you the highlights here.

I come from a close-knit family, and one of our special times together each year was a week at the beach. One year, I learned that the Limb TC Advance would take place at the same time as my family vacation at the beach. I announced at the TC fellowship that I would be unable to attend due to the conflict. After the fellowship, my BC confronted me on this and questioned my commitment to God (I’m sure that sounds all too familiar!). Since I had accepted the responsibility to co-ordinate a fellowship, I had an obligation to be at this Advance. Not to attend was to put my earthly family above my commitment to God. I really struggled with that, and by the end of the confrontation had “surrendered” and agreed to go to the Advance. I regretted my decision from the moment I made it and really battled with it in my mind for quite a while afterwards. By the time the Advance came around I was at peace with myself. I realized I had allowed myself to be manipulated and coerced, had seen how it happened, and vowed I would do my best to never let it happen again. I rode there with my BC and told him that although I was looking forward to the Advance and knew it would be a beneficial weekend, I did not believe that it was where I was supposed to be. I should be on vacation with my family. Being a TC was only a portion of my life. I had the opportunity to be involved with twi every day of my life, but I only had a few opportunities to be with my family. And, imo, choosing to be with my family was as much as godly decision as choosing to be at a TC Advance. If he felt that my effectiveness and ability to co-ordinate a fellowship would be hampered by that opinion, then I would gladly relinquish the job to someone else. A short discussion ensued, I really don’t remember what was said, except that he disagreed with me, but understood that I was solid in my belief.

I never went WOW or entered the Corps program (was supposed to go into the 12th or 13th, but an auto accident and ensuing law suit saved me from that). But I can see now that if I had, I would have either had a very short tenure, or felt forced to swallow much of my independent thinking, and little by little “surrendered” to the organization. I’m sure I would have swallowed some early on, after earning and saving all the tuition money, and making the additional investments of time, effort, and energy. I’m thankful I never put myself between that rock and a hard place, and have great admiration for all of you who found yourselves in that position, and have survived and gone on to live full, successful lives.

Seems like once the first a guilt trip is bought into, it gets gradually less difficult to buy into the next one, until finally the guilt has enslaved us and turned to fear. We buy the guilt as truth and are fearful because we are unable to reconcile the great gulf between our inner gut feelings and what we’ve come to believe is truth.

The first incongruency I had to tackle here at GSC was the public and “inner sanctum” personna’s of VPW. I had been aware of the sexcapades of twi leadership since my early twi days, but was under the impression it was all consensual, not forced. I had questioned the growing of the bureaucracy, and the big stink over why all the money had to be sent to hq versus staying in the field with no accountability due to the “abundant sharers”, but always chalked it up to probably being related to the IRS non-profit status. I had heard rumors about the plagiarism, but had remembered VPW often saying he had learned things from other sources, and had even been shown the sources where he took some information from during classes, study sessions, etc., so never felt he was “hiding” anything. All of those opinions have changed dramatically.

I despise the evil in the man, but am thankful he made PFAL available to me. My vision of him can no longer be limited to his public persona of the kind, grandfatherly teacher who wanted only the best for us, and whose primary desire in life was to teach us how to understand the Bible and how to apply it daily to our lives, as well as how to tap into the power of the holy spirit and make it a living reality in our lives. That vision perished with the knowledge of his other self(ves). I once loved his public persona; now I love only the truth he taught and the man he knew to be. I do believe that he loved God, and that his love for God shaped the image of the man he knew to be. That same image forced him to realize and admit he fell far short of mark in becoming that man. The man he knew to be, and strived to be in his public persona, is the part of VPW I continue to have compassion and tenderness toward, because I believe God worked through that part of him to teach the truths of the Bible he knew. To paraphrase ExWayCorp in the “A Few Big Things I Learned Taking PFAL, Do you still believe them?” thread, the teacher is not what I cherish, but rather the subject matter.

Had there not been twi, would I have found the truth that set me free? Probably so. God will reach us and teach us by any means available. Would I have the enjoyed the sweet and tender fellowship with the caliber and great number of “true” believers I met in twi? Probably not. To quote Socks in the “Why some people don’t get the abuse stories” thread , “When I look back to even the earliest years I was in the Way, I see there were good people throughout, faith, good times, hard work. When you have that kind of environment, good can come out of it. The fact that VP pi$$ed his part away doesn't mean the Party stopped. It was going on around him all the time.” And DotMatrix in “Adultery versus Soul Stealing”, I got delivered from the word in the class despite the man who taught it.” Shazdancer adds another gem of understanding with, “I like what you said about God reaching out to people no matter what organization they are in. Then can we say that we are thankful for that corrupt organization, or thankful for God? I am thankful for many people who belonged to TWI who helped me. I am thankful for many people who never heard of TWI who helped me, too.”

I have never believed that everything taught in PFAL was “God’s honest truth”. I always viewed it as having many gems of truth, but being a research project in the “work in progress” state. A starting place to begin my own study, research, and understanding of the Bible. My thoughts on VPW’s PFAL are well summed up in one of my first posts here, “He (VPW) died, but the truth he taught never will.”

It will be interesting to see where I am 18 months from now.

Suda (sure that her astrological sign should be a mule, not a bull)

Edited July 18, 2007 by Suda

[smarter]

One of the first and most subtle steps in my "surrendering" process was health food. The person that witnessed to me had said that the Way was about learning Biblical principals, not rules and regulations. The fellowships taught about our freedom in Christ. Meanwhile, I was already being told what I should eat, if not for my own good, then for the good of the planet.

Since the Garden of Eden, people (or spirit beings) have always attempted to get control over people by saying that it's for their own good.

[ChasUFarley]

Someone may call me biased here, or whatever... but here it goes....

It much easier for women to surrender to the ministry and leadership because of the teachings (i.e. husband is the head, leadership is the MOG, etc.) than it is for men to surrender.

Giving up free will choice is easy and happens slowly over time.

Example:

Please let leadership know when you're going to be out of town, in case we need to call you.

Please let leadership know one week ahead of time, when you're going to be out of town, in case we need to call you.

Please let leadership know one week ahead of time, by filling out this form, when you're going to be out of town, in case we need to call you.

Please let leadership know one week ahead of time, by filling out this form, and putting in on the weekly schedule you submit, when you're going to be out of town, in case we need to call you.

Please let leadership know two weeks ahead of time, by filling out this form, and putting in on the weekly schedule you submit, when you're going to be out of town, in case we need to call you.

Please let leadership know two weeks ahead of time, by filling out this form for us to review and sign, and putting in on the weekly schedule you submit, when you're going to be out of town, in case we need to call you.

(Oh, and don't do this too often - or we'll think you're placing family/friends above the ministry.)

[johniam]

The thing about guilt trips illustrates to me how complicated TWI became. In the 80s I clearly remember LCM once getting all riled up over giving to something other than TWI. His spin was that most other things you could give to tried to play on your guilt. Why should you feel guilty just because you have a roof over your head, food, clothes, etc.? He said, "I don't care if it's the will of God Almighty for you to give to something other than TWI; just DON'T do it out of GUILT!"

Yet, beginning with the debt purge in spring of 1994 and forward, all TWI was mandated to give based on guilt. Give 15% ABS, give up your mortgage for a rental unit, give up your long standing relationships with "copped out" believers if leadership says so, etc. Even region cordos felt the guilt, and some have broken free.

[TheHighWay]

Suda, thanks for a great post!! Much to think about.

I think one of the big keys to surrendering to the incremental indoctrination of twi, was how much you thought you needed their intervention in your life... I mean, I was a very insecure person. I was book-smart, and seemingly outgong, but much of that was bluff and bluster. My family and others around me had great expectations of me, which I had serious doubts I could fulfill. I felt that I needed someone's help in guiding me, helping me be better, be more self assured, be more EVERYTHING. This attitude, more than any other, is what held me to the path laid out by twi. I was afraid I couldn't do it on my own. I thought they had the answers. I was willing to trust what they told me, and deny my own thoughts, mostly out of a fear and distrust of my own judgement. Even though I had never been victimized before, I was exactly what predators look for...

[excathedra]

i'm not sure what i want to post, yet, but i wanted to say i love ya suda

[Bumpy]

Suda, thanks for a great post!! Much to think about.

I think one of the big keys to surrendering to the incremental indoctrination of twi, was how much you thought you needed their intervention in your life... I mean, I was a very insecure person. I was book-smart, and seemingly outgong, but much of that was bluff and bluster. My family and others around me had great expectations of me, which I had serious doubts I could fulfill. I felt that I needed someone's help in guiding me, helping me be better, be more self assured, be more EVERYTHING. This attitude, more than any other, is what held me to the path laid out by twi. I was afraid I couldn't do it on my own. I thought they had the answers. I was willing to trust what they told me, and deny my own thoughts, mostly out of a fear and distrust of my own judgement. Even though I had never been victimized before, I was exactly what predators look for...

Brilliant Post. For me, says it all!

[bowtwi]

Very interesting subject, here.

For me personally, I was from "the wrong side of the tracks" so when those nice, clean-cut folks who clearly had hotlines to God, welcomed little ol' me, why, I was ripe for the pickin. They had all the answers I'd been looking for and were patient and kind with my "unbelieving believer husband at the time," I was so thankful to be included in the household of God, not just the everyday family of God.

I think it was Oak that once talked about boiling a frog by raising the water temperature slowly, just a little bit at a time, and that's stuck with me whenever I've felt it had been weakness in my character that allowed me to be suckered by twi. It wasn't a weakness in me - it was a weakness in twi leadership.

Also, speaking just for myself and my experience - the way I knew for my first 14 years' involvement was nothing like the way of my last 6 months, which was an episode worthy of the Twilight Zone series. I left in the fall of '94, so I didn't even get the really intense micromanagement I'd heard of starting in '94, '95. I was one of the wows they said was a homo infiltrating the program and then of course, bringing that contamination into "their" corpse household.

Fortunately for me, they threw me out - else I might not have noticed what was going on ever and could be one of those still in today!!!

[excathedra]

makes me sick ((((((( bow )))))))

[Ham]

by the time I left in 96.. it got to the place they were trolling for a half a reason to work somebody over and put them on some kind of spiritual "leave", or some kind of "correction" program of sorts.

"we know something is wrong here. If you knew what was good for you, you'd spill your guts and tell us. "

I think some people made stuff up.. "Yes, yes.. I'm a homo, AND I'm possessed, AND I'm an idolater, AND.."

The only thing I ever honestly told this sycophant was that I really couldn't trust him. But I was nice about it.

Somehow, the "inquisitor" expected the poor slobs in these "meetings" to provide evidence for their own guilt and lynching..

[excathedra]

it "seems" to have gotten worse since i left

but maybe not really -- it's always horrifying to be shamed and humiliated, blatant or not

[Ham]

Actually, I don't think it got worse.. they just took what was at the root level, and spread it around a little..

hmm. maybe that is worse..

If you can imagine a couple hundred Geers give or take, hitting the field with a vengeance.. that's pretty close to what happened.

[waysider]

I left the organization in about 1991.

It wasn't dramatic. I drifted away due to family obligations.

By that time I was only involved at the twig level and completely in the dark about a lot of what was really going on.

Still, I felt guilty that I had forsaken the household. I never felt like I had forsaken God or that He had forsaken me. I just felt like I had let him down by not remaining committed.

I continued to hold forth what I thought at the time was The Word.

I never told people about twigs and branches and whatnot.

Wouldn't know where to even send them if they would have wanted to go.

I found this place while I was searching to replace my PFAL book which someone had failed to return.

I went through half a dozen copies that I used to lend out a lot.(won't do that again!)

So, I guess what I'm saying is that the biggest guilt trip I was on was probably self imposed, at least to some degree.

Don't know if that makes sense to any of you but it does to me.

[cinderpelt]

I left the organization in about 1991.

It wasn't dramatic. I drifted away due to family obligations.

By that time I was only involved at the twig level and completely in the dark about a lot of what was really going on.

Still, I felt guilty that I had forsaken the household. I never felt like I had forsaken God or that He had forsaken me. I just felt like I had let him down by not remaining committed.

I continued to hold forth what I thought at the time was The Word.

I never told people about twigs and branches and whatnot.

Wouldn't know where to even send them if they would have wanted to go.

I found this place while I was searching to replace my PFAL book which someone had failed to return.

I went through half a dozen copies that I used to lend out a lot.(won't do that again!)

So, I guess what I'm saying is that the biggest guilt trip I was on was probably self imposed, at least to some degree.

Don't know if that makes sense to any of you but it does to me.

If you take a closer look, where did the idea of having forsaken the "household" come from? The "household was erroneously defined by TWI.

It was a great epiphany for me, the day I was cruising down a country road with my wee babies in the back seat, and happened upon a local Christian radio Station and was truly edified by the tune I heard. I said out loud, "These are my brothers and sisters in Christ!!!"

[potato]

Someone may call me biased here, or whatever... but here it goes....

It much easier for women to surrender to the ministry and leadership because of the teachings (i.e. husband is the head, leadership is the MOG, etc.) than it is for men to surrender.

Giving up free will choice is easy and happens slowly over time.

there was a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle pressure to be a godly woman, and godly women did not make their husbands look foolish in public or in private, so our job was to ego-stroke, always, whether he deserved it or not. I can't count the number of times I was talked to about my house, how it needed to be ready to entertain at any moment, how it was my responsibility on top of my children and my full-time job to make sure my husband had ample time to prepare for the responsibilities of the day because he was my overseer. always hearing about how I should appreciate him (which of course meant he was complaining about me to leadership). so much bondage resulted. "meetings" that destroyed my soul.

I don't want a "head" anymore. I don't need one. I want a partner, an equal.

[Bumpy]

there was a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle pressure to be a godly woman, and godly women did not make their husbands look foolish in public or in private, so our job was to ego-stroke, always, whether he deserved it or not. I can't count the number of times I was talked to about my house, how it needed to be ready to entertain at any moment, how it was my responsibility on top of my children and my full-time job to make sure my husband had ample time to prepare for the responsibilities of the day because he was my overseer. always hearing about how I should appreciate him (which of course meant he was complaining about me to leadership). so much bondage resulted. "meetings" that destroyed my soul.

I don't want a "head" anymore. I don't need one. I want a partner, an equal.

Possibly the little lady in the picture below would agree with you? However I don’t think she was in your corps regiment.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k234/jol.../ATT4952161.jpg

“Beaver, tell your brother Wally it’s time for dinner”! (and tell that damn father of yours his a$$ is grass!)

[Suda]

Misplaced Guilt

Some posts here at the GSC have made me wonder if some posters might be suffering from misplaced guilt. The most common one I sense seems to occur after someone has learned of all the horror and pervertedness of the higher echelons of twi. It can be so shocking it really messes up our thinking patterns as we try to untangle the incongruencies. Some seem to come to the conclusion that since they supported twi financially, and actively recruited more followers who also gave financial support, that their support enabled the evil that was perpetrated on innocent victims, and so they are in someway responsible for those evil acts. I think this is misguided guilt. The only ones guilty of wrongdoing, are those who committed the evil, or those that knew of the evil and condoned it or aided the wrongdoers, or those who knew of it, and kept silent. No one else need feel any guilt or shame. Anger, yes! Outrage, yes! Misplaced guilt, No.

Let me give an analogy. As a citizen of the USA, I gladly pay my fair share of taxes to support the privileges of citizenship. My tax dollars pay for the salaries of national, state, and local government officials that I vote to put in office (my vote counts even if my candidate doesn’t win.) If they misuse these funds, is that my responsibility? No. Once I have given it to them, it is their responsibility to use it wisely. If I do not like their decisions, it is my responsibility to vote them out of office at the next election. If some officials voted into office decide to take bribes on the side, get blow jobs in the Oval Office, etc., did I enable their vile behavior? No. I am in no way responsible for their actions. I can feel anger and outrage, but guilt would be a misplaced emotion.

Any thoughts?

[gladtobeout]

Misplaced Guilt

Some posts here at the GSC have made me wonder if some posters might be suffering from misplaced guilt. The most common one I sense seems to occur after someone has learned of all the horror and pervertedness of the higher echelons of twi. It can be so shocking it really messes up our thinking patterns as we try to untangle the incongruencies. Some seem to come to the conclusion that since they supported twi financially, and actively recruited more followers who also gave financial support, that their support enabled the evil that was perpetrated on innocent victims, and so they are in someway responsible for those evil acts. I think this is misguided guilt. The only ones guilty of wrongdoing, are those who committed the evil, or those that knew of the evil and condoned it or aided the wrongdoers, or those who knew of it, and kept silent. No one else need feel any guilt or shame. Anger, yes! Outrage, yes! Misplaced guilt, No.

Suda,

Yes, that's me. I have been suffering with that, but I think I'm gradually getting better.

[RainbowsGirl]

Dear Suda,

Thank You for the love and the time it took to share your heart here; It certainly helps me to improve my perspective from where I had been and from where I am at right now!

Incidentally, Suda, I respect and admire You greatly for Your charm, wisdom, understanding, sense of humor and compassion; I think You are both, strong as a bull" and the right kind of "stubborn as a mule"! You have such a genuinely sincere attitude and heart!

[gladtobeout]

Suda,

I didn't have much time to post earlier. I have had terrible trouble with guilt and condemnation for reasons you described. I didn't sleep very well for 3 years because of it and was in a pretty bad state of depression. I am getting better, but I still fight it. I has been real helpful for me checking in here at the gspot. Thanks for your sharing.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

In hindsight, I believe that the public persona that Wierwille displayed, was a facade. When the curtain went down, he was a drunk and a womanizer with little or no regard for other people. In that sense, he was a phoney. He was able to pull it off because of his years as a minister, his charismatic personality, and his background in studying homeletics...he also studied other people and copied their style. In my opinion, his priorities were always self serving.

During my time in twi, I was always able to seperate twi from God. I enjoyed the teachings but never felt that twi "owned" them or had any special monopoly on truth. I was always bothered at how they seperated themselves from the rest of the body of Christ and I always kept my options open in terms of my allegience to twi...I held back. Because of this, I didn't buy into their guilt trips or fear tactics as much as other around me did...while in the corps, I usually kept my thoughts to myself.

I went into the corps with the goal of completing 4 years of training...that was it. I had no aspirations of taking assignments or climbing the way tree. When lcm would go into one of his face melting rants, I felt somewhat detached and was only upset because of how it effected those around me. I thought he was a jerk.

...and yes, here at GreaseSpot we see a wide variety of belief systems. People have left the group think mentality of twi and have found their own ways in life. There is no consensus here. We all share the common experience of twi and we come here for various reasons.

I am thankful to God for the things in my life that He has shown me...I am NOT thankful to Mr. Wierwille for his class that was full of destructive errors (that he stole from others for his own gain)...I have no guilt trips concerning my time with twi...and I highly encourage others to eliminate their own (if they have any) by whatever means works for you...they were a cult and not worthy of doing that to you.

Edited July 20, 2007 by GrouchoMarxJr

[johniam]

quote: If some officials voted into office decide to take bribes on the side, get blow jobs in the Oval Office, etc., did I enable their vile behavior? No. I am in no way responsible for their actions. I can feel anger and outrage, but guilt would be a misplaced emotion.

Any thoughts?

Good analogy.

quote: Possibly the little lady in the picture below would agree with you? However I don’t think she was in your corps regiment.

Be a little gay??? Nothing wrong with a wife having the house immaculate and having dinner ready and even having a ribbon in her hair as long as it's consensual, but today women don't have time for that stuff; neither do men. I remember from my pre school days my mom scrubbing linoleum floors on her hands and knees, always baking stuff, and she did so dutifully. But that was 50 years ago. Different era now.

[WordWolf]

Misplaced Guilt

Some posts here at the GSC have made me wonder if some posters might be suffering from misplaced guilt. The most common one I sense seems to occur after someone has learned of all the horror and pervertedness of the higher echelons of twi. It can be so shocking it really messes up our thinking patterns as we try to untangle the incongruencies. Some seem to come to the conclusion that since they supported twi financially, and actively recruited more followers who also gave financial support, that their support enabled the evil that was perpetrated on innocent victims, and so they are in someway responsible for those evil acts. I think this is misguided guilt. The only ones guilty of wrongdoing, are those who committed the evil, or those that knew of the evil and condoned it or aided the wrongdoers, or those who knew of it, and kept silent. No one else need feel any guilt or shame. Anger, yes! Outrage, yes! Misplaced guilt, No.

Let me give an analogy. As a citizen of the USA, I gladly pay my fair share of taxes to support the privileges of citizenship. My tax dollars pay for the salaries of national, state, and local government officials that I vote to put in office (my vote counts even if my candidate doesn’t win.) If they misuse these funds, is that my responsibility? No. Once I have given it to them, it is their responsibility to use it wisely. If I do not like their decisions, it is my responsibility to vote them out of office at the next election. If some officials voted into office decide to take bribes on the side, get blow jobs in the Oval Office, etc., did I enable their vile behavior? No. I am in no way responsible for their actions. I can feel anger and outrage, but guilt would be a misplaced emotion.

Any thoughts?

I think that's quite an observation, and I'd like to add one of my own.

(Not original, but I'm relating it here, anyway.)

Some people, I think, are internalizing that MISPLACED GUILT, and saying

"Well, since I refuse to be held responsible for their sins,

I'm going to belittle or deny the harm they did, since this is the sole way

to absolve me from wrongdoing",

when the wrongdoing was most likely none of theirs to begin with.

[Suda]

Interesting observation, WordWolf.

Thanks for your kind remarks, Rainbow's Girl.

Suda