I remember being so scared to leave. What would I say? I was told (this was in '87) from Donna Martindale's sister about people leaving and how they were possessed and possibly not really born again of the right spirit, but of the wrong spirit. There was possibly death threats out on some of the leaders who had left. Athletes of the Spirit seemed to come out at the perfect time to show us that a person born again of the wrong spirit could be killed.
I was on my way to Gunnison, I was staying in Denver at the time, when I snapped. Someone, who had recently left TWI, asked me why we tithed. I never questioned this before. I realized I never really questioned anything. I freaked out!!! How could I go into the corps having all these questions and doubting everything I'd been taught? Two days before I was to show up at Gunnison I asked my very dear friend what I should say. And he said, "Tell them we're getting married." This sounded good enough for me. That way I was hoping I wouldn't be questioned. I actually wasn't! The two of us, along with my new fiance's brother went to Gunnison for a weekend to get all my belongings and tried talking many people out. We weren't very successful!
To answer your question about those last words. I was able to avoid it by moving to Fort Collins, CO with my husband-to-be and we followed John Lynn's group for a while. Interestingly enough, at our wedding we invited TWI folowers, Geer's followers, and John Lynn's followers. There was a mix of all these people at our wedding. I didn't find out till later the interactions between each of these groups. It was interesting to say the least. Donna Martindale's sister (Teresa) and her husband (Lou Guigou) came to my wedding. I lived with them for a few years. They didn't say anything to me about leaving. I think I just tried to avoid talking about this topic, even though I was scared something might be brought up. Nothing was!!
The last words.. hmm. I found myself face to face with a madman, with far more problems than I could even dream of having.. "just tell us, what's wrong with you.."
"hmm. well, I'll think about it. I'll get back with you."
I left, more or less, when the whole state that i was in got 'fired' at the time of the loyalty letter from Martindale, so I never had any personal last words with higher ups....it just wasnt there anymore.
I was still waybrained however and more or less interested for a few years afterward while I adapted to not having any Way Fellowships around.
About two years later I was in Florida on a business trip with a coworker and decided to look up a Twig to go to and to bring him to it.
I called the limb to find out where the nearest twig was-- some guy named Allan Li**t answered the phone.
Hi, Im in town where is there atwig near me?
I had to play the 900 questions with him for about 2 hours...Who's your limb leader? Who's your twig coordinator? How come you arent going to fellowship? Why dont you have the b*lls to stand with the MOG of our time...? on and on and on and on and on while he got hotter and hotter and louder and louder---making a huge deal of Martindale ...I got the feeling that I had to kiss his ring and genuflect or something, then, if I vowed my eternal allegiance they would allow me to maybe--just maybe--after a period of initiation to go....it was a real joke
...the weird thing was that at the time I wanted to go --I cant imagine what it was like for people on the inside.
That was my last official contact with TWI
I dont know what ever happened to that Li**t guy maybe he is enjoying his career as Craigs personal a$$wiper or something, as for me he did me a huge favor by showing me just how screwed up the place had become--I guess I owe him a debt of gratitude for not allowing me to come and having a mental fit in the process
" You are putting your children in the worst kind of peril and they'll be dead within two years. You are a huge disappointment to God and the memory of your husband"
The little LCM-wannabe where we lived at the time called us on the phone. We shall refer to him by the initials LDH (for "little dick head). It went something this:
LDH: "Let me speak to your husband."
Me. "I'm sorry, he's in the bathroom. May I have him return your call?"
LDH: "Oh. He's in the bathroom." Very sarcastic tone of voice, obviously with the firm belief that I am lying through my teeth.
me. "That's what I said. That's what I meant. Why would I tell you he is if he isn't? Would you like me to carry the phone back there so you can listen for sound effects?" (I am a smarta$$ to this day).
LDH: "No, that won't be necessary. (Giggle, giggle, giggle, chortle chortle). I have discussed you and your husband with the other men of God and we have decided neither you, nor your husband, nor your son are to be permitted to attend twig fellowship. You can tell your your husband that when he gets out of the bathroom." (Here, he burst into laughter, chortles of joy, in fact.) Same sarcastic tone of voice. Apparently, this great and mighty man of God thinks he has gotten revelation that my husband is standing right there, too cowardly to pick up the phone and talk to the MOGFTCIEW.
Me. "Thank you very much."
It was 9:04 PM Pacific Standard Time. I hung up the phone and broke down completely. This same great and mighty one had his very self taught a few weeks previously that as a result of those words, the God in Christ in all of us had just died. Shortly thereafter our physical bodies would die also because it is impossible to exist outside the body of Christ. From the way he delivered this portentous message, I could tell at the time he was quoting the Man Of God For This Day And Time And Hour Unto The Entire World!
The worst part was his giggling and laughing throughout this entire conversation, except of course where he was being sarcastic about my husband's indisposition. Here this guy firmly believes he is killing the spirit within us and condemning us to spiritual and physical death, and he's LAUGHING! If he had walzed in the front door with a shotgun and blasted away, he probably would have been chortling with joy - the last thing I would hear before BOOM!
Looking back, it seems to me that this young man was a sick puppy. He made no secret of the fact that he passionately worshipped and adored LCM. His little cute wife had been Personal Assistant to the President her interim year, and I suspect there were some responsibilities she undertook that weren't written down in her job description.
Sadly, I still remember those words, that tone of voice, and in some ways I still believe them. But I don't really think that what God has given LDH can take away from me.
I honestly dont know what my ex twig leader and and Branch Leader said about me because I left so abruptly.
I did wander into twig a few times after that but it was never the same.
I met my ex twig leader one more time, she bummed $100 off me on the spot!
Afterwards I never got these kind of threats leveled towards me, I did however get labeled as being "tripped out" but that never bothered me, Ive been called worse.
Now I just feel sorry for them, all these gung ho people have left the way, and the ministry has been decapitated and now even refuses to mention Victor Paul Weirwille or Larry Craig Martindale on their website at all!
Perhaps I was lucky to never had gone into the Way Corps because it seems the pressure and mind control was so much stronger there....am I right?
About two and a half years before leaving for good I had been put on probation. My wife and I had been having some marital problems and I had made some stupid decisions that while serious, should have been between my wife and I. We were put on six months probation. We had to come to the twig meeting where the LC announced our probation to everyone. The LC declared that I was "treacherous". I had no infamous last words at that time, since I didn't exactly have the moral high ground and I wanted to prove them wrong and be allowed back in to TWI.
A few days before I was finally booted I was confronted by Tom and Dorothy Horrocks and my twig leader. They had printouts of some of my posts from GSC. I never found out if they had made the connection between some of the concerns that I had brought to their attention and had put in writing to a member of the BOT and what was being posted, or if someone ratted me out. (My wife at the time is my #1 suspect). They tried to get me to admit that I was "Twyril", the handle that I used back then (even asking me, seemingly innocently, how to pronounce "Twyril"), but I admitted to nothing.
Several doctrinal issues were brought up by me during this meeting that I felt could not be supported biblically, including the WayAP class segment about the devil impersonating a beautiful woman and having lesbian sex with Eve. I commented that someone either needed to show me where I was wrong, or the Trustees were going to have to change what they were teaching. Dorothy Horrocks said "that's not going to happen".
Several days later I was called by Tom Horrocks who informed me that I was no longer welcome at Way fellowships because I "didn't believe that the Trustees were leading the ministry in the right direction". I laughed and asked him if I was being thrown out for believing that the Trustees were capable of mistakes. He said no, and repeated his initial comment about me not believing the Trustees were leading in the right direction. I had long ago left TWI in my heart, but was sticking around to see if I could convince my wife to leave with me, so it was a relief to be kicked out, no longer having to live a double life.
Horrocks told me that if I was interested in getting back into the household I was to contact him for information. He then asked me to put my wife on the phone, but she was not at home, so he asked me to have her call him later. I kind of chuckled and said something like "Sure, whatever". He told me that it didn't sound like I was going to pass on the message and that I "needed to convince him". Now that made me laugh! I told him that by kicking me out he had abdicated what little authority that he had over me and that I would pass on the message if that's what I decided to do, I wished him a good day and hung up.
i don't know why i am shocked (nothing should shock me anymore), but i can't believe that ignorant twerp told you that "the God in Christ in you would die"... (and he was happy about it) =:~o
first off, God NEVER dies! (and it is the height of arrogance and heresy to claim such)... this guy is so full of pride that it sounds like he thinks that HE has the power of life and death... he has set himself up as his own "god" (just like many people did in twi)
i don't usually go around saying this kind of thing, but i will here...
i perceive that this guy is NOT born again... NO ONE with the spirit of God behaves this way - delusionally thinking that they have the power of life and death, and gleefully ready to use that power capriciously at their own whim and will... it is ludicrous to think that Gd would give that kind of power to ANY one... (and for the obvious reasons)
personally, i believe that A LOT of people in twi were NOT born again... if people got born again, it was in spite of the organization not because of it [people were already born again, OR got the knowledge via reading the bible for themselves)... because the organization itself did NOT teach anyone how to get born again!... the organization basically IGNORED repentance (and it is impossible to get born again without repentance)... twi simply focused on the mechanics of speaking in tongues (which CAN be counterfeited)...
twi was a cult, and it's "leadership" was a group of hedonistic, self-serving, self-made "gods"... it is a disgrace to true christianity!
watered garden, i pray that you never believe one word that came out of the mouth of this ignorant, delusional, arrogant, pathetic little self-made mini-"god"... and i pray that he turns to the true God and repents...
I was told (this was in '87) from Donna Martindale's sister about people leaving and how they were possessed and possibly not really born again of the right spirit, but of the wrong spirit. There was possibly death threats out on some of the leaders who had left. Athletes of the Spirit seemed to come out at the perfect time to show us that a person born again of the wrong spirit could be killed.
Lisa, did this relate at all to what the POP said about Ricardo C and attempts to murder him?
This is almost unimaginable that DM, et al, had gone this far in their minds to justify their actions against twi believ
WOW, well bless your hearts. I never heard of such a thing in all my life. I knew it was possible. But what happened to me was I did what I got kicked out for, so it was the right thing to do. And I must say, John Townsend was loving about it. I didn't start to condemn myself until I hit the road. This was October of 1984 and you are the first people I am telling this to. I stayed in a hotel in Illinios the first night. I was heading to Jersey. The second night I stayed at HQ. For some weird reason I was allowed to stay in the Corps Chalet. I did not see Craig or Donna, just people I didn't know in the living room all watching a porno flick. Now, I ain't no prude, but come on, Flesh Gordon, gimmee a break. I didn't know if they were trying to prove how unreligious they were or if they wanted me to join in. I grabbed my stuff and went to sleep and got out of there as quick as I could.
In 1987 after hearing all the crap from Corps week and the rumor mill starting up I decided this wasn't where I want to be anymore. It was a hard decision because I had a great time for the most part with people with the ministry. All the trouble stemmed from leadership whose egos got so big they couldn't fit in the big top anymore. I won't allow a leader I do not trust to teach me the alphabet let alone spiritual matters.
I am sorry for those of you who got so hassled, so confused, and so thrown into condemnation. That ain't what it was all about. What happened to the love?
Later on, I made the apparent mistake of talking to someone who expressed a desire to extricate themselves from the evil empire. I hadn't even set a date to talk further to this person when I got a phone call from one of the
local gang leaders.
It was approximately 11 o'clock at night. I had been asleep for about an hour. Therefore, I was fairly foggy for most of the phone call. The last thing this person said to me was,(and this is a paraphrase) "You better walk down the street looking behind your back".This was should I have continued talking to people who were dissatisfied with the status quo of the organization.
An obvious attempt at the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation. I've since learned, they tack on toward the household. Present truth abounds.
Ron: Oh, you're going to the Sports Page Lounge next Tuesday to watch me play darts? (I'd decided I'd had enough and was done with it and joined the local darts team)
T.W.: Huh?
Ron: Never mind....bye.
T.W.: Bye
Second time 1996 in Oxley, Arkansas (on the phone from Little Rock)...
M*nte H*bb*s, Arkansas LC: I understand from Rev. Pl*t*g that you have problems with obeying and you left California without his permission.
Ron: Yeah.....and? (HP and I had that conversation earlier and it was kind of unpleasant as I reminded him that I was 47 years old and could and would do as I damn well pleased as long as it didn't violate any state, local or federal laws or regulations and punctuated the conversation with the same thing Bride of JC said in her post on this thread)
MH: I need you to take the Way Magazine and read every article faithfully and subscribe to the SNS tapes and listen to them faithfully while working the collaterals, the PFAL book and Rev. Martindale's "Rise and Expansion" book over the next six months and move down here to Little Rock where you can be near people and move the word.
Ron: Yeah.....and?
MH: Then call me and we'll discuss you coming back.
Ron: gotcha....bye.
MH: Bye
Six months later, I was still living here and had done nothing of what I'd been told. MH, however, had gone in residence in a federal penitentiary and so I figured since he was probably only allowed one phone call, I'd spare him the trouble of it being wasted on me.
THW, Oakspear - you had some presence of mind, good for you! You seem to have escaped without too much wallowing in self-condemnation.
Well, when you say it like that, it sounds cool... but I was far from cool. I was a wreck. I was terrified. I was lost. But I was also mad. And that gave me the strength to be defiant. I didn't know what I was going to do next but I knew it was going to be MY choice, not theirs.
They begged me to stay. Called 10, 12 times to see if I was sure about what I'd decided. Sent leters, and more letters, even after I'd said my decision was final. They wanted some stuff back, but I'd paid for it so I refused. There was a lot of hurtful things said, then apologies when they realized they'd been said out of sheer grief at the idea of me leaving. For months I cried a lot. I'd hear some of the same things I'd said and heard for so many years and it would bring back floods of memories and it would start all over again.
Then they finally stopped calling, although I continued to get newsletters once every few months, with little notes saying "Miss you!" and "Hope you're doing well, keep in touch, we miss you!" It was kind of touching really, and even sometimes today I....I....Oh. Wait a minute.
They begged me to stay. Called 10, 12 times to see if I was sure about what I'd decided. Sent leters, and more letters, even after I'd said my decision was final. They wanted some stuff back, but I'd paid for it so I refused. There was a lot of hurtful things said, then apologies when they realized they'd been said out of sheer grief at the idea of me leaving. For months I cried a lot. I'd hear some of the same things I'd said and heard for so many years and it would bring back floods of memories and it would start all over again.
Then they finally stopped calling, although I continued to get newsletters once every few months, with little notes saying "Miss you!" and "Hope you're doing well, keep in touch, we miss you!" It was kind of touching really, and even sometimes today I....I....Oh. Wait a minute.
I didn't know what I was going to do next but I knew it was going to be MY choice, not theirs.
Exactly! I had, in the last year, lost my husband and my brother, and taken on some massive abuse from twi in that regard. I had two children, ages 16 and 3 and I was now able to do whatever I wanted, whatever the hell that was.
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polar bear
They told me I was not welcome to attend any fellowships.
I told them I wouldn't come back if they gave me a million bucks and then told them they were @@@ holes.
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Lisa
I remember being so scared to leave. What would I say? I was told (this was in '87) from Donna Martindale's sister about people leaving and how they were possessed and possibly not really born again of the right spirit, but of the wrong spirit. There was possibly death threats out on some of the leaders who had left. Athletes of the Spirit seemed to come out at the perfect time to show us that a person born again of the wrong spirit could be killed.
I was on my way to Gunnison, I was staying in Denver at the time, when I snapped. Someone, who had recently left TWI, asked me why we tithed. I never questioned this before. I realized I never really questioned anything. I freaked out!!! How could I go into the corps having all these questions and doubting everything I'd been taught? Two days before I was to show up at Gunnison I asked my very dear friend what I should say. And he said, "Tell them we're getting married." This sounded good enough for me. That way I was hoping I wouldn't be questioned. I actually wasn't! The two of us, along with my new fiance's brother went to Gunnison for a weekend to get all my belongings and tried talking many people out. We weren't very successful!
To answer your question about those last words. I was able to avoid it by moving to Fort Collins, CO with my husband-to-be and we followed John Lynn's group for a while. Interestingly enough, at our wedding we invited TWI folowers, Geer's followers, and John Lynn's followers. There was a mix of all these people at our wedding. I didn't find out till later the interactions between each of these groups. It was interesting to say the least. Donna Martindale's sister (Teresa) and her husband (Lou Guigou) came to my wedding. I lived with them for a few years. They didn't say anything to me about leaving. I think I just tried to avoid talking about this topic, even though I was scared something might be brought up. Nothing was!!
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Ham
The last words.. hmm. I found myself face to face with a madman, with far more problems than I could even dream of having.. "just tell us, what's wrong with you.."
"hmm. well, I'll think about it. I'll get back with you."
"Duuuuuhhhhhh, okay..."
those were the last words.
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jen-o
i was told i was rebellious!
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WhiteDove
None .......I believe that I had the last word..they had nothing to say, what could they?
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lindyhopper
lets see...
... unequally yoked....
... no no wait don't be rash you don't have to leave...
... we're just making suggestions not dictating....
... hedge of protection reminder...
... "fronts of the adversary" reminder...
... just come over and lets talk this over...
... hey uh, so when ya coming over to talk about this?...
... so you know, you can always come over and talk...
... you know we'd love to talk, we always have an open door...
Tiny Elvis what do you think?
"a little less conversation a little more action"
Thanks tiny E!
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TheHighWay
Hmmm...
First I was asked what gave me the right to disobey my leadership?
(in turn I asked, what gave them the right to tell me what to do in my private life?)
Then I was told I always did try to wear the pants in my family.
(to which I responded, if my husband had worn them like he was supposed to I wouldn't have to)
We then proceeded to:
Rebellious
Unremorceful
Wicked
and finally
Mark and Avoid
(at that point I was so convinced I was right that I actually smiled at my mini-mog and said, thank you)
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mstar1
I left, more or less, when the whole state that i was in got 'fired' at the time of the loyalty letter from Martindale, so I never had any personal last words with higher ups....it just wasnt there anymore.
I was still waybrained however and more or less interested for a few years afterward while I adapted to not having any Way Fellowships around.
About two years later I was in Florida on a business trip with a coworker and decided to look up a Twig to go to and to bring him to it.
I called the limb to find out where the nearest twig was-- some guy named Allan Li**t answered the phone.
Hi, Im in town where is there atwig near me?
I had to play the 900 questions with him for about 2 hours...Who's your limb leader? Who's your twig coordinator? How come you arent going to fellowship? Why dont you have the b*lls to stand with the MOG of our time...? on and on and on and on and on while he got hotter and hotter and louder and louder---making a huge deal of Martindale ...I got the feeling that I had to kiss his ring and genuflect or something, then, if I vowed my eternal allegiance they would allow me to maybe--just maybe--after a period of initiation to go....it was a real joke
...the weird thing was that at the time I wanted to go --I cant imagine what it was like for people on the inside.
That was my last official contact with TWI
I dont know what ever happened to that Li**t guy maybe he is enjoying his career as Craigs personal a$$wiper or something, as for me he did me a huge favor by showing me just how screwed up the place had become--I guess I owe him a debt of gratitude for not allowing me to come and having a mental fit in the process
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Shellon
" You are putting your children in the worst kind of peril and they'll be dead within two years. You are a huge disappointment to God and the memory of your husband"
I wrote it down and look at it from time to time.
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brideofjc
CLICK!
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Watered Garden
The little LCM-wannabe where we lived at the time called us on the phone. We shall refer to him by the initials LDH (for "little dick head). It went something this:
LDH: "Let me speak to your husband."
Me. "I'm sorry, he's in the bathroom. May I have him return your call?"
LDH: "Oh. He's in the bathroom." Very sarcastic tone of voice, obviously with the firm belief that I am lying through my teeth.
me. "That's what I said. That's what I meant. Why would I tell you he is if he isn't? Would you like me to carry the phone back there so you can listen for sound effects?" (I am a smarta$$ to this day).
LDH: "No, that won't be necessary. (Giggle, giggle, giggle, chortle chortle). I have discussed you and your husband with the other men of God and we have decided neither you, nor your husband, nor your son are to be permitted to attend twig fellowship. You can tell your your husband that when he gets out of the bathroom." (Here, he burst into laughter, chortles of joy, in fact.) Same sarcastic tone of voice. Apparently, this great and mighty man of God thinks he has gotten revelation that my husband is standing right there, too cowardly to pick up the phone and talk to the MOGFTCIEW.
Me. "Thank you very much."
It was 9:04 PM Pacific Standard Time. I hung up the phone and broke down completely. This same great and mighty one had his very self taught a few weeks previously that as a result of those words, the God in Christ in all of us had just died. Shortly thereafter our physical bodies would die also because it is impossible to exist outside the body of Christ. From the way he delivered this portentous message, I could tell at the time he was quoting the Man Of God For This Day And Time And Hour Unto The Entire World!
The worst part was his giggling and laughing throughout this entire conversation, except of course where he was being sarcastic about my husband's indisposition. Here this guy firmly believes he is killing the spirit within us and condemning us to spiritual and physical death, and he's LAUGHING! If he had walzed in the front door with a shotgun and blasted away, he probably would have been chortling with joy - the last thing I would hear before BOOM!
Looking back, it seems to me that this young man was a sick puppy. He made no secret of the fact that he passionately worshipped and adored LCM. His little cute wife had been Personal Assistant to the President her interim year, and I suspect there were some responsibilities she undertook that weren't written down in her job description.
Sadly, I still remember those words, that tone of voice, and in some ways I still believe them. But I don't really think that what God has given LDH can take away from me.
WG
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Steveo
I honestly dont know what my ex twig leader and and Branch Leader said about me because I left so abruptly.
I did wander into twig a few times after that but it was never the same.
I met my ex twig leader one more time, she bummed $100 off me on the spot!
Afterwards I never got these kind of threats leveled towards me, I did however get labeled as being "tripped out" but that never bothered me, Ive been called worse.
Now I just feel sorry for them, all these gung ho people have left the way, and the ministry has been decapitated and now even refuses to mention Victor Paul Weirwille or Larry Craig Martindale on their website at all!
Perhaps I was lucky to never had gone into the Way Corps because it seems the pressure and mind control was so much stronger there....am I right?
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Oakspear
About two and a half years before leaving for good I had been put on probation. My wife and I had been having some marital problems and I had made some stupid decisions that while serious, should have been between my wife and I. We were put on six months probation. We had to come to the twig meeting where the LC announced our probation to everyone. The LC declared that I was "treacherous". I had no infamous last words at that time, since I didn't exactly have the moral high ground and I wanted to prove them wrong and be allowed back in to TWI.
A few days before I was finally booted I was confronted by Tom and Dorothy Horrocks and my twig leader. They had printouts of some of my posts from GSC. I never found out if they had made the connection between some of the concerns that I had brought to their attention and had put in writing to a member of the BOT and what was being posted, or if someone ratted me out. (My wife at the time is my #1 suspect). They tried to get me to admit that I was "Twyril", the handle that I used back then (even asking me, seemingly innocently, how to pronounce "Twyril"), but I admitted to nothing.
Several doctrinal issues were brought up by me during this meeting that I felt could not be supported biblically, including the WayAP class segment about the devil impersonating a beautiful woman and having lesbian sex with Eve. I commented that someone either needed to show me where I was wrong, or the Trustees were going to have to change what they were teaching. Dorothy Horrocks said "that's not going to happen".
Several days later I was called by Tom Horrocks who informed me that I was no longer welcome at Way fellowships because I "didn't believe that the Trustees were leading the ministry in the right direction". I laughed and asked him if I was being thrown out for believing that the Trustees were capable of mistakes. He said no, and repeated his initial comment about me not believing the Trustees were leading in the right direction. I had long ago left TWI in my heart, but was sticking around to see if I could convince my wife to leave with me, so it was a relief to be kicked out, no longer having to live a double life.
Horrocks told me that if I was interested in getting back into the household I was to contact him for information. He then asked me to put my wife on the phone, but she was not at home, so he asked me to have her call him later. I kind of chuckled and said something like "Sure, whatever". He told me that it didn't sound like I was going to pass on the message and that I "needed to convince him". Now that made me laugh! I told him that by kicking me out he had abdicated what little authority that he had over me and that I would pass on the message if that's what I decided to do, I wished him a good day and hung up.
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jen-o
watered garden,
i don't know why i am shocked (nothing should shock me anymore), but i can't believe that ignorant twerp told you that "the God in Christ in you would die"... (and he was happy about it) =:~o
first off, God NEVER dies! (and it is the height of arrogance and heresy to claim such)... this guy is so full of pride that it sounds like he thinks that HE has the power of life and death... he has set himself up as his own "god" (just like many people did in twi)
i don't usually go around saying this kind of thing, but i will here...
i perceive that this guy is NOT born again... NO ONE with the spirit of God behaves this way - delusionally thinking that they have the power of life and death, and gleefully ready to use that power capriciously at their own whim and will... it is ludicrous to think that Gd would give that kind of power to ANY one... (and for the obvious reasons)
personally, i believe that A LOT of people in twi were NOT born again... if people got born again, it was in spite of the organization not because of it [people were already born again, OR got the knowledge via reading the bible for themselves)... because the organization itself did NOT teach anyone how to get born again!... the organization basically IGNORED repentance (and it is impossible to get born again without repentance)... twi simply focused on the mechanics of speaking in tongues (which CAN be counterfeited)...
twi was a cult, and it's "leadership" was a group of hedonistic, self-serving, self-made "gods"... it is a disgrace to true christianity!
watered garden, i pray that you never believe one word that came out of the mouth of this ignorant, delusional, arrogant, pathetic little self-made mini-"god"... and i pray that he turns to the true God and repents...
peace,
jen-o
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now I see
Lisa, did this relate at all to what the POP said about Ricardo C and attempts to murder him?
This is almost unimaginable that DM, et al, had gone this far in their minds to justify their actions against twi believ
ers...
Is this for real?
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Twinky
Wow, same-old, same-old but more vicious. Some of the last words are really vicious.
THW, Oakspear - you had some presence of mind, good for you! You seem to have escaped without too much wallowing in self-condemnation.
Lindy - the usual rubbish
WG - bizarre, I think on top of the teaching (?) you mentioned that's the weirdest thing I've heard
Shellon - not putting you on a guilt trip, then. Did they offer to drive the motor car that ran the kids over?
mstar1 - interrogated to go to twig? (Freely availing oneself of fellowship, then...)
Worst of it is, some of us were so Waybrained we believed this rot, or at least didn't dare to disbelieve.
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lucyvanpelt
WOW, well bless your hearts. I never heard of such a thing in all my life. I knew it was possible. But what happened to me was I did what I got kicked out for, so it was the right thing to do. And I must say, John Townsend was loving about it. I didn't start to condemn myself until I hit the road. This was October of 1984 and you are the first people I am telling this to. I stayed in a hotel in Illinios the first night. I was heading to Jersey. The second night I stayed at HQ. For some weird reason I was allowed to stay in the Corps Chalet. I did not see Craig or Donna, just people I didn't know in the living room all watching a porno flick. Now, I ain't no prude, but come on, Flesh Gordon, gimmee a break. I didn't know if they were trying to prove how unreligious they were or if they wanted me to join in. I grabbed my stuff and went to sleep and got out of there as quick as I could.
In 1987 after hearing all the crap from Corps week and the rumor mill starting up I decided this wasn't where I want to be anymore. It was a hard decision because I had a great time for the most part with people with the ministry. All the trouble stemmed from leadership whose egos got so big they couldn't fit in the big top anymore. I won't allow a leader I do not trust to teach me the alphabet let alone spiritual matters.
I am sorry for those of you who got so hassled, so confused, and so thrown into condemnation. That ain't what it was all about. What happened to the love?
Lucy
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Shellon
Ah, what they said AFTER I left.........well, now, that's another animal isnt it?
This is a family show and some are probably eating their evening meal, I'll not tell that part.
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Sushi
This is from my post in My Story...........
Later on, I made the apparent mistake of talking to someone who expressed a desire to extricate themselves from the evil empire. I hadn't even set a date to talk further to this person when I got a phone call from one of the
local gang leaders.
It was approximately 11 o'clock at night. I had been asleep for about an hour. Therefore, I was fairly foggy for most of the phone call. The last thing this person said to me was,(and this is a paraphrase) "You better walk down the street looking behind your back".This was should I have continued talking to people who were dissatisfied with the status quo of the organization.
An obvious attempt at the love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation. I've since learned, they tack on toward the household. Present truth abounds.
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Ron G.
First time in 1987 in Universal City, Texas...
T. W*ll*nb*rg: G'nite, Ron. See you next week!
Ron: Oh, you're going to the Sports Page Lounge next Tuesday to watch me play darts? (I'd decided I'd had enough and was done with it and joined the local darts team)
T.W.: Huh?
Ron: Never mind....bye.
T.W.: Bye
Second time 1996 in Oxley, Arkansas (on the phone from Little Rock)...
M*nte H*bb*s, Arkansas LC: I understand from Rev. Pl*t*g that you have problems with obeying and you left California without his permission.
Ron: Yeah.....and? (HP and I had that conversation earlier and it was kind of unpleasant as I reminded him that I was 47 years old and could and would do as I damn well pleased as long as it didn't violate any state, local or federal laws or regulations and punctuated the conversation with the same thing Bride of JC said in her post on this thread)
MH: I need you to take the Way Magazine and read every article faithfully and subscribe to the SNS tapes and listen to them faithfully while working the collaterals, the PFAL book and Rev. Martindale's "Rise and Expansion" book over the next six months and move down here to Little Rock where you can be near people and move the word.
Ron: Yeah.....and?
MH: Then call me and we'll discuss you coming back.
Ron: gotcha....bye.
MH: Bye
Six months later, I was still living here and had done nothing of what I'd been told. MH, however, had gone in residence in a federal penitentiary and so I figured since he was probably only allowed one phone call, I'd spare him the trouble of it being wasted on me.
See how nice I am?
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TheHighWay
Well, when you say it like that, it sounds cool... but I was far from cool. I was a wreck. I was terrified. I was lost. But I was also mad. And that gave me the strength to be defiant. I didn't know what I was going to do next but I knew it was going to be MY choice, not theirs.
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socks
They begged me to stay. Called 10, 12 times to see if I was sure about what I'd decided. Sent leters, and more letters, even after I'd said my decision was final. They wanted some stuff back, but I'd paid for it so I refused. There was a lot of hurtful things said, then apologies when they realized they'd been said out of sheer grief at the idea of me leaving. For months I cried a lot. I'd hear some of the same things I'd said and heard for so many years and it would bring back floods of memories and it would start all over again.
Then they finally stopped calling, although I continued to get newsletters once every few months, with little notes saying "Miss you!" and "Hope you're doing well, keep in touch, we miss you!" It was kind of touching really, and even sometimes today I....I....Oh. Wait a minute.
Wait. That was my Amway group.
Never mind. Sorry, wrong thread.
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brideofjc
What a hoot! You too?
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Shellon
Exactly! I had, in the last year, lost my husband and my brother, and taken on some massive abuse from twi in that regard. I had two children, ages 16 and 3 and I was now able to do whatever I wanted, whatever the hell that was.
But it was mine!
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