I don't know. I suspect the rule was put in place because people getting drunk cost TWI money and embarassement. Certainly there were some clergy that did have a drinking problem. OTOH, VPW probably did his best "work" after a couple of shots.
I think the two drink guideline is good in a cult and out of a cult.
Drinks are costly, often...and alcohol, no matter how cool you are, affects your rational thinking capabilities.
Yes, lots of folks can hold great groups of libation...they are so together...lol.
I am a bartender...albeit a really smart one...but a bartender, nonetheless. I see people excel at stupid on a regular basis. I am all for a good time, (and as a McCarthy, I bear verifiable proof of many proofs) but having a pre-designated designated driver is a wise precaution that can save a whole lot of hurt if you are planning to get cranked. "Just one more Jaeger...one for the ditch..."
As an overall guideline, when out and about, two drinks is not a squelching thing...it is a safe bet.
I lived with a 'clergy' dude for a while who, every 6 weeks or so, would go on an ouzo binge, drinking amazing amounts of the stuff. Afterwards, he would return to his legalistic , tightly wound self, until the need to break loose returned.
My boot out the door of the house began with him blowing his top over me drinking one, and only one, beer in the house. But that's a long, ugly tale.
Matilda, absolutely, it's a good idea to drink moderately, and alcohol fuels far too many dangerous or foolish situations. And a designated driver for a group night out is also a good idea.
Sticking to two drinks on an evening out (the scenario as presented was, one drink as an aperitif, followed by one glass of wine with one's meal) is a good plan. But to enforce it legalistically? Works! Requiring the substituting of someone's judgment for one's own (a well-known TWI habit). Particularly if there are favorites who are exempt from the rule - ie, not a "top down" example (I guess the higher-ups - such as HiWay mentions - would be "spiritually mature" in more ways than one? LOL).
HiWay, your tale sounds typical Way double-speak and maybe you want to start your own thread to enlighten us.
What I'm wondering on this thread is whether it was not just an attempt to restrict our imbibing and enjoyment of alcohol, but also an effort to ensure that we had more available cash to support TWI.
There's a good legal reason for a two drink limit when out in public. What you drink in private is not part of my post nor do I generally care.
Most states have adopted a BAC of 0.08 for DWI. According the the chart I get every time I get something from the CA DMV that is about two beers for a 150 lb person. DUI is even more arbitrary in CA. You can have one beer but if the patrolman believes your driving is impaired you can still get a DUI.
Tonight, debate night, I am off...woo hoo! I have enjoyed my two drink limit here at home whilst I am biden my time im-palin another shrimp on me barbie...ready to move on to three with no apologies...
I think the real discernable issue here...that TWI was wacked...is more than abundantly evident by the fact that leadership got their rocks off drinking, of all things....Ouzo.....lol.
Metaxa, Galiano, even Campari for goodness sake...even getting wrecked was problematic with the spiritually elite among us...rather on par with buying Beta...lolololol.
Metaxa, Galiano, even Campari for goodness sake...even getting wrecked was problematic with the spiritually elite among us...rather on par with buying Beta...lolololol.
Smirk - even when they did serve beer to the corps is was Coors or Bud. I bet they never heard of an IPA.
The 2 drink minimum, er-uh limit, was also for WOW's and I did my best to have no more then 2 40 ounce beers on Sunday doing my laundry... :)
On a more serious note, for an alcoholic 2 drinks is an annoyance it's more trouble then it's worth. Looking back it's a wonder how I stayed dry on the WOW field it was serious torture, every other Friday Sam would come over with a 6 pack of Micky's big mouth and I got two he got two and Mark got two. Just enough for a little buzz, but it took a lot of effort to keep me from walking to the circle K across the street, and buying more.
So for non-alcoholics it's easy to stop at 2. But then again why even have a rule? Rules are just for breaking anyway. Maybe that was the point.
Dooj - funny video. We'd all had spiritual lobotomies anyway.
Seth - you think the purpose of the two-drink limit was to give us another rule? So they could beat us up for breaking it?
WG, Waysider - a no-drink limit? I don't recall that on its precursor, the WoW field. So - no witnessing in bars, then?
RumRunner - exactly; what you drink in private shouldn't be of concern. Unless it made you completely "out of oder."
Maybe Seth is right. Make another rule, then you can beat on someone for breaking it. Pharisee-ism. Maybe it wasn't about the money [that TWI didn't get] after all.
Heck, one of the fruits of the spirit is supposed to be temperance or self-control. Looks like they didn't trust the holy spirit in us.
Whereas those who enjoyed debauchery (a work of the flesh) knew they couldn't trust their "holy spirit" and needed a rule to control their habits.
Gal 5 in The Message is pretty cute. Or shocking. :)
Although the two-drink rule has its benefits......I tend to think that "the benefits" favored twi in terms that "the ministry be not blamed" AND keeping followers in their place as "adolescents."
Yet, wierwille's drambuie-coffee sipping during those late night corps meetings was well-known. Like father like son.....when don wierwille would smoke at those staff meetings. In other words, DRINKING and SMOKING is not good.....don't do it (yet, THEY did).
Ironic, isn't it? Wierwille could be so specific about the two-drink limit.....but couldn't address adultery in the CF&S class.
In fact, we didn't do much witnessing as we were there to work at the limb.
Any witnessing we did was door-to-door and mall witnessing.
We turned those leads over to the local twigs to follow up and undershepherd.
Of course, we were supposed to use our day jobs as a vehicle to witness but it's pretty tough to get close to co-workers when you're not allowed to hang with them, have no free time and live a regimented schedule.
Tilda - Thought of you when I heard this on a radio show:
(from the MIT newsletter....)
This Thursday! A debate for the ages! Two contestants, one vice presidency! Who will earn the honor of succeeding Dick Cheney?
In the blue corner Joe “I take the train home” Biden. In the red corner Sarah “I can see Russia from my house” Palin.
Blue Team Rules
¶ For every mention of Scranton, Pennsylvania: Take a sip.
¶ When Biden begins the “I take the train home everyday story” being drinking. Don’t stop ’till he finishes.
¶ When Biden questions Palin’s inexperience: Drink something you’ve never had before
¶ When Biden makes an obvious gaffe: Spill your neighbor’s drink
¶ When Biden uses X words when Y will do: Drink X-Y seconds
¶ When Biden patronizes or self identifies with the working class: Down some brew (Bonus points if you use Miller Highlife)
¶ When Biden lambastes Washington Insiders: Make a toast to his 35 years of experience in the United States Senate
The Joe Biden checklist. If he mentions all of the following, finish your drinks: Blue Collar, Golden Parachute, Little Guy, Washington Insider, Working Class, Clean
Red Team Rules
¶ Every time Palin cites Alaska’s proximity to Russia as “foreign policy experience”: Take a shot of vodka
¶ When Palin claims she said “Thanks but no thanks” to the Bridge to Nowhere: Demand a new drink from your hosts, say “thanks but no thanks,” and then when no one’s looking, take it anyway, then claim you never wanted it.
¶ When Palin recounts putting the governor’s jet on eBay: Auction off a beer to your friends
¶ When Palin insists that governing a small town in Alaska is in fact experience: Give your friend a shot glass of beer when he/she asks for a pint and insist it’s the same thing.
¶ When Palin points out that Biden thought Obama was too inexperienced for the job: Finish your drink and say, “Oh Snap!” If you’re a democrat, follow this by crying.
¶ When Palin claims that Washington’s problems can be solved by small town know how and common sense: Drink a Labatt Blue as you read up on how to become a Canadian citizen.
¶ When Palin talks about being the most popular governor in the country: Go to a room by yourself, realize you’re the most popular person in the room, then finish your drink.
The Sarah Palin checklist. If she mentions all of the following, finish your drinks: Bush Doctrine, Snow Machine, Moose, Lipstick, Hockey Mom, Family Values
Much as I usually jump on the "follow the money" bandwagon, I have to say I don't really think this was the case with the two-drink limit. I think that twi leadership realized that they had a group of "free-thinking" young people who by the early 80s they were trying to make look more "legitimate" and professional.
TWI rode the same current of popular opinion that was starting to crack down on drunk drivers and decided that if we were going to be examples to the world, then this was just one more area to discipline.
Same as when DocVic and LCM decided on the spur of the moment that the corps would be non-smoking, stating that if you wanted to be on the front lines for God you could certainly discipline yourself enough to stop smoking. (of course, they did talk about the cost of cigarettes being a factor, now that I think about it)
When I was in-rez you could smoke as long as your tuition was paid up. If you were behind, you were expected to quit and use the money you'd spend on cigs towards your training...
Agree with all the wizenhimers who have said it was a good rule, the right thing to do, and had little or nothing to do with trying to control people's money.
I'm a light drinker, 1 or 2 if we're out and I feel like it. Home, not much at all. I've kept myself to a 2 drink limit with very few exceptions and like it. Plus, after all the people I've seen make fools of themselves keeping to the alternate "5 drink and counting" limit, I have less to remember. Or forget.
I also agree the two drink limit isn't too much to ask since a drink or 2 for most people is not a problem. This was probably a good way to keep wows and corp from drunk dialing people and witnessing. Having your followers known as crazy drunks would have been counter-productive.
Recommended Posts
Jim
I don't know. I suspect the rule was put in place because people getting drunk cost TWI money and embarassement. Certainly there were some clergy that did have a drinking problem. OTOH, VPW probably did his best "work" after a couple of shots.
Edited by JimLink to comment
Share on other sites
MATILDA
I think the two drink guideline is good in a cult and out of a cult.
Drinks are costly, often...and alcohol, no matter how cool you are, affects your rational thinking capabilities.
Yes, lots of folks can hold great groups of libation...they are so together...lol.
I am a bartender...albeit a really smart one...but a bartender, nonetheless. I see people excel at stupid on a regular basis. I am all for a good time, (and as a McCarthy, I bear verifiable proof of many proofs) but having a pre-designated designated driver is a wise precaution that can save a whole lot of hurt if you are planning to get cranked. "Just one more Jaeger...one for the ditch..."
As an overall guideline, when out and about, two drinks is not a squelching thing...it is a safe bet.
Now, who's buying the next round?
Edited by MATILDALink to comment
Share on other sites
hiway29
I lived with a 'clergy' dude for a while who, every 6 weeks or so, would go on an ouzo binge, drinking amazing amounts of the stuff. Afterwards, he would return to his legalistic , tightly wound self, until the need to break loose returned.
My boot out the door of the house began with him blowing his top over me drinking one, and only one, beer in the house. But that's a long, ugly tale.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jim
There's nothing GSers like better than a long, ugly TWI tale...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Matilda, absolutely, it's a good idea to drink moderately, and alcohol fuels far too many dangerous or foolish situations. And a designated driver for a group night out is also a good idea.
Sticking to two drinks on an evening out (the scenario as presented was, one drink as an aperitif, followed by one glass of wine with one's meal) is a good plan. But to enforce it legalistically? Works! Requiring the substituting of someone's judgment for one's own (a well-known TWI habit). Particularly if there are favorites who are exempt from the rule - ie, not a "top down" example (I guess the higher-ups - such as HiWay mentions - would be "spiritually mature" in more ways than one? LOL).
HiWay, your tale sounds typical Way double-speak and maybe you want to start your own thread to enlighten us.
What I'm wondering on this thread is whether it was not just an attempt to restrict our imbibing and enjoyment of alcohol, but also an effort to ensure that we had more available cash to support TWI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
Was that two beers or two pitchers? :blink:
FLO was dry as a 200 year old bone. So two drinks sounded wonderful.
WG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
There's a good legal reason for a two drink limit when out in public. What you drink in private is not part of my post nor do I generally care.
Most states have adopted a BAC of 0.08 for DWI. According the the chart I get every time I get something from the CA DMV that is about two beers for a 150 lb person. DUI is even more arbitrary in CA. You can have one beer but if the patrolman believes your driving is impaired you can still get a DUI.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MATILDA
Tonight, debate night, I am off...woo hoo! I have enjoyed my two drink limit here at home whilst I am biden my time im-palin another shrimp on me barbie...ready to move on to three with no apologies...
I think the real discernable issue here...that TWI was wacked...is more than abundantly evident by the fact that leadership got their rocks off drinking, of all things....Ouzo.....lol.
Metaxa, Galiano, even Campari for goodness sake...even getting wrecked was problematic with the spiritually elite among us...rather on par with buying Beta...lolololol.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RumRunner
Smirk - even when they did serve beer to the corps is was Coors or Bud. I bet they never heard of an IPA.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ljn698
There's nothing GSers like better than a long, ugly TWI tale...
Gasp! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
As WG said, there was a "no drink" limit in Fellow Laborers.
Zip. Zilch, Nada.
And they could conduct a "house inspection" anytime of the night or day.
(Or decide, on a moment's notice, that everyone had to move to different houses---NOW!)
Even your underwear drawer was subject to inspection.
Nope, no "al-key-hall" for us.
(Unless, of course, you happened to be the limb leader. <_< )
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
... still...I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Seth R.
The 2 drink minimum, er-uh limit, was also for WOW's and I did my best to have no more then 2 40 ounce beers on Sunday doing my laundry... :)
On a more serious note, for an alcoholic 2 drinks is an annoyance it's more trouble then it's worth. Looking back it's a wonder how I stayed dry on the WOW field it was serious torture, every other Friday Sam would come over with a 6 pack of Micky's big mouth and I got two he got two and Mark got two. Just enough for a little buzz, but it took a lot of effort to keep me from walking to the circle K across the street, and buying more.
So for non-alcoholics it's easy to stop at 2. But then again why even have a rule? Rules are just for breaking anyway. Maybe that was the point.
Seth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Dooj - funny video. We'd all had spiritual lobotomies anyway.
Seth - you think the purpose of the two-drink limit was to give us another rule? So they could beat us up for breaking it?
WG, Waysider - a no-drink limit? I don't recall that on its precursor, the WoW field. So - no witnessing in bars, then?
RumRunner - exactly; what you drink in private shouldn't be of concern. Unless it made you completely "out of oder."
Maybe Seth is right. Make another rule, then you can beat on someone for breaking it. Pharisee-ism. Maybe it wasn't about the money [that TWI didn't get] after all.
Heck, one of the fruits of the spirit is supposed to be temperance or self-control. Looks like they didn't trust the holy spirit in us.
Whereas those who enjoyed debauchery (a work of the flesh) knew they couldn't trust their "holy spirit" and needed a rule to control their habits.
Gal 5 in The Message is pretty cute. Or shocking. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Although the two-drink rule has its benefits......I tend to think that "the benefits" favored twi in terms that "the ministry be not blamed" AND keeping followers in their place as "adolescents."
Yet, wierwille's drambuie-coffee sipping during those late night corps meetings was well-known. Like father like son.....when don wierwille would smoke at those staff meetings. In other words, DRINKING and SMOKING is not good.....don't do it (yet, THEY did).
Ironic, isn't it? Wierwille could be so specific about the two-drink limit.....but couldn't address adultery in the CF&S class.
Hypocrits and adulterers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Twinky
Nope, no bar witnessing.
In fact, we didn't do much witnessing as we were there to work at the limb.
Any witnessing we did was door-to-door and mall witnessing.
We turned those leads over to the local twigs to follow up and undershepherd.
Of course, we were supposed to use our day jobs as a vehicle to witness but it's pretty tough to get close to co-workers when you're not allowed to hang with them, have no free time and live a regimented schedule.
No alcohol permitted in the townhouses.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
We did "bar witnessing" here in the early '80's. We weren't supposed to go over the two drink limit.
There was a two-drink limit but no limit on doobies...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
Tilda - Thought of you when I heard this on a radio show:
(from the MIT newsletter....)
This Thursday! A debate for the ages! Two contestants, one vice presidency! Who will earn the honor of succeeding Dick Cheney?
In the blue corner Joe “I take the train home” Biden. In the red corner Sarah “I can see Russia from my house” Palin.
Blue Team Rules
¶ For every mention of Scranton, Pennsylvania: Take a sip.
¶ When Biden begins the “I take the train home everyday story” being drinking. Don’t stop ’till he finishes.
¶ When Biden questions Palin’s inexperience: Drink something you’ve never had before
¶ When Biden makes an obvious gaffe: Spill your neighbor’s drink
¶ When Biden uses X words when Y will do: Drink X-Y seconds
¶ When Biden patronizes or self identifies with the working class: Down some brew (Bonus points if you use Miller Highlife)
¶ When Biden lambastes Washington Insiders: Make a toast to his 35 years of experience in the United States Senate
The Joe Biden checklist. If he mentions all of the following, finish your drinks: Blue Collar, Golden Parachute, Little Guy, Washington Insider, Working Class, Clean
Red Team Rules
¶ Every time Palin cites Alaska’s proximity to Russia as “foreign policy experience”: Take a shot of vodka
¶ When Palin claims she said “Thanks but no thanks” to the Bridge to Nowhere: Demand a new drink from your hosts, say “thanks but no thanks,” and then when no one’s looking, take it anyway, then claim you never wanted it.
¶ When Palin recounts putting the governor’s jet on eBay: Auction off a beer to your friends
¶ When Palin insists that governing a small town in Alaska is in fact experience: Give your friend a shot glass of beer when he/she asks for a pint and insist it’s the same thing.
¶ When Palin points out that Biden thought Obama was too inexperienced for the job: Finish your drink and say, “Oh Snap!” If you’re a democrat, follow this by crying.
¶ When Palin claims that Washington’s problems can be solved by small town know how and common sense: Drink a Labatt Blue as you read up on how to become a Canadian citizen.
¶ When Palin talks about being the most popular governor in the country: Go to a room by yourself, realize you’re the most popular person in the room, then finish your drink.
The Sarah Palin checklist. If she mentions all of the following, finish your drinks: Bush Doctrine, Snow Machine, Moose, Lipstick, Hockey Mom, Family Values
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
Much as I usually jump on the "follow the money" bandwagon, I have to say I don't really think this was the case with the two-drink limit. I think that twi leadership realized that they had a group of "free-thinking" young people who by the early 80s they were trying to make look more "legitimate" and professional.
TWI rode the same current of popular opinion that was starting to crack down on drunk drivers and decided that if we were going to be examples to the world, then this was just one more area to discipline.
Same as when DocVic and LCM decided on the spur of the moment that the corps would be non-smoking, stating that if you wanted to be on the front lines for God you could certainly discipline yourself enough to stop smoking. (of course, they did talk about the cost of cigarettes being a factor, now that I think about it)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
doojable
When I was in-rez you could smoke as long as your tuition was paid up. If you were behind, you were expected to quit and use the money you'd spend on cigs towards your training...
"What kind of training?!'
"Aaaarmmmeeee... Spurt-ull training Sir!"
Edited by doojableLink to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Funny Chas
Sir! Yes SIR!
Agree with all the wizenhimers who have said it was a good rule, the right thing to do, and had little or nothing to do with trying to control people's money.
I'm a light drinker, 1 or 2 if we're out and I feel like it. Home, not much at all. I've kept myself to a 2 drink limit with very few exceptions and like it. Plus, after all the people I've seen make fools of themselves keeping to the alternate "5 drink and counting" limit, I have less to remember. Or forget.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
so it was
I also agree the two drink limit isn't too much to ask since a drink or 2 for most people is not a problem. This was probably a good way to keep wows and corp from drunk dialing people and witnessing. Having your followers known as crazy drunks would have been counter-productive.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.