One of the things that exasperated me when in TWI was the writing style. Everything was written as though it were an epistle. I got to the point where I couldn't ever finish a letter or an article because of the wordiness and expounding on minutiae. Most things took a translator to get to the point.
Was this by design?
This was probably a lack of education. Real writing uses different styles, each with their advantages.
I'm not the MOST educated person there, but my own writing style, I think, is effective, and it's as
idiosyncratic as they come. (In other words, people don't wonder if I copied over someone else's
work, as nobody SOUNDS like me.)
Of course, I could still have pulled a vpw and rephrased someone else's work to my own, but as a point of
pride, and a point of honesty, I always did my own writing. Besides, most people's writing reflects a
"regression towards the mean", it's "average." Copying an "average" paper, or in the case of this thread,
an "average" style, will limit you. It's laziness, and it started with vpw, who copied the work AND
the style of others entirely. It's sad but true that many ministers copy the STYLE of others- I consider
that laziness rather than developing your OWN style. But to copy the SUBSTANCE over is laziness as well
as a crime.
If the Corps and the College Division REALLY measured up to the hype vpw and lcm gave them- the academic
claims, at least- then the graduates would all be good communicators, having learned to write effectively.
However, both programs were designed with lazy shortcuts, and the material never rose to the level of
community college. Some of the students did anyway- but there will be those who rise above their education
no matter what the education is.
=================
The wordiness and expounding on minutiae, I'd expect, would be more a reflection of lcm than vpw.
vpw copied- entirely- the work of competent writers and communicators. (He plagiarized their level of
communication with the material.) lcm, on the other hand, always seemed to think that adding words to
anything was an improvement. Look at the corps principles and the definitions of the manifestations.
Under lcm, both got a lot wordier, sometimes doubling in length.
I've noticed that my own style of preparation for a live teaching requires a minimum of 5 hours to
prepare the material to my minimum expectations. I generally prepared a minimum of 6 hours, and each hour
after the 5th SHORTENED the teaching, tightening the wording, cutting out wasteful comments, focusing
the subject more precisely in the wording, and so on. In other words, I preferred a shorter, focused
teaching on a subject rather than a long one, if I could manage it.
==================
EDIT:
This also applies to the "literal translations according to usage"
and "expanded literal translations according to usage" lcm used.
For those wondering, the "literal translations according to usage"
seem to have been plagiarized from other Bible versions.
The "expanded translations" were incredibly long-winded additions
to a verse where lots of personal opinion was inserted.
Example of a "literal translation according to usage":
Philippians 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."
"Literal translation according to usage":
"I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him who infuses inner strength into me."
(I can't even type it without humming it, anymore.)
Amplified Bible:
"I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me (I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me; I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency)."
Anyone who thinks this MIGHT have been a coincidence, I have one question for you:
If twi actually did their own work,
why did "Christ" become "Him" when the Greek clearly says "Christ"
but the Amplified says "Him"? Is it just an amazing coincidence?
One of the things that exasperated me when in TWI was the writing style. Everything was written as though it were an epistle. I got to the point where I couldn't ever finish a letter or an article because of the wordiness and expounding on minutiae. Most things took a translator to get to the point.
Was this by design?
Wow, good question Tzaia, it is definitely food for thought to me.
For a while now I have been considering that the manner of how TWI taught the scriptures has served to hide the truth. IMO in any situation where people have been taught that a certain style is equal to substance they will make mistakes. One might think.....well, he didn't quote the scriptures enough or write in a fashion that proves to me that he knows what he's talking about, heck, he didn't even put "GOD" at the top of the page.
By style alone they are judged to be "not good enough."
IMO any ministry that was started by a narcissistic sociopath like Wierwille would grow exceedingly good at tricky B.S.
But as to any one individual, I wouldn't know if they were just following the pattern they learned or if they knew what they were doing.
But somewhere along the line it would seem that any normal person would have some kind of conscience pangs that came with the b.s. they were speaking.
This was probably a lack of education. Real writing uses different styles, each with their advantages.
I'm not the MOST educated person there, but my own writing style, I think, is effective, and it's as
idiosyncratic as they come. (In other words, people don't wonder if I copied over someone else's
work, as nobody SOUNDS like me.)
Of course, I could still have pulled a vpw and rephrased someone else's work to my own, but as a point of
pride, and a point of honesty, I always did my own writing. Besides, most people's writing reflects a
"regression towards the mean", it's "average." Copying an "average" paper, or in the case of this thread,
an "average" style, will limit you. It's laziness, and it started with vpw, who copied the work AND
the style of others entirely. It's sad but true that many ministers copy the STYLE of others- I consider
that laziness rather than developing your OWN style. But to copy the SUBSTANCE over is laziness as well
as a crime.
If the Corps and the College Division REALLY measured up to the hype vpw and lcm gave them- the academic
claims, at least- then the graduates would all be good communicators, having learned to write effectively.
However, both programs were designed with lazy shortcuts, and the material never rose to the level of
community college. Some of the students did anyway- but there will be those who rise above their education
no matter what the education is.
=================
The wordiness and expounding on minutiae, I'd expect, would be more a reflection of lcm than vpw.
vpw copied- entirely- the work of competent writers and communicators. (He plagiarized their level of
communication with the material.) lcm, on the other hand, always seemed to think that adding words to
anything was an improvement. Look at the corps principles and the definitions of the manifestations.
Under lcm, both got a lot wordier, sometimes doubling in length.
I've noticed that my own style of preparation for a live teaching requires a minimum of 5 hours to
prepare the material to my minimum expectations. I generally prepared a minimum of 6 hours, and each hour
after the 5th SHORTENED the teaching, tightening the wording, cutting out wasteful comments, focusing
the subject more precisely in the wording, and so on. In other words, I preferred a shorter, focused
teaching on a subject rather than a long one, if I could manage it.
==================
EDIT:
This also applies to the "literal translations according to usage"
and "expanded literal translations according to usage" lcm used.
For those wondering, the "literal translations according to usage"
seem to have been plagiarized from other Bible versions.
The "expanded translations" were incredibly long-winded additions
to a verse where lots of personal opinion was inserted.
Example of a "literal translation according to usage":
Philippians 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."
"Literal translation according to usage":
"I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him who infuses inner strength into me."
(I can't even type it without humming it, anymore.)
Amplified Bible:
"I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me (I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me; I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency)."
Anyone who thinks this MIGHT have been a coincidence, I have one question for you:
If twi actually did their own work,
why did "Christ" become "Him" when the Greek clearly says "Christ"
but the Amplified says "Him"? Is it just an amazing coincidence?
I give WW an "A" for style, clarity, and precision. No split infinitives, proper use of as and like, etc. I have to give a "B" for content, though.
The Greek text at my disposal, The Greek New Testament (K. Aland, et al., 2nd Ed. Wurttemberg Bible Society, Stuttgart, W, Germany. 1968.) does not have "Christ" in Phil. 4:13 at all. The verse reads (I assume that there is a way to import the Greek alphabet, but I don't know how to do it. I am using w in place of omega):
panta ischuw en tw endunamounti me
all things I can do in the one who empowers me (In Koine Greek, en often means "by means of.")
Aland's text also includes any significant variants, and there are none here. It is possible, though, that some text may have Christ in it.
Open a Word document, while in Word, pull down the "insert" menu and then the "symbol" submenu, you will find Greek letters that you can insert one at a time. Then copy the whole thing over to a post
Yeah – good one Excathedra – you've inspired my funny bone - so here goes...
TWI writing style in various business contexts....
Late bill notice:
"Greetings & blessings to you in the name of our wonderful Redeemer, who paid in full the price for our sins. Unfortunately, he didn't cover your cable bill."
Response from IRS to a TWI follower's income tax filing:
"Please be advised altering tax forms is a serious matter. It has come to our attention that on your 2007 tax form, you crossed out 'married filing separately' and wrote in 'together with yet distinctly independent of'."
Notification of an out of stock item:
"We are sorry to inform you that one of the items on your order is presently unavailable due to factory cutbacks. In an effort to lessen cost overruns to our shipping and handling departments impacted by filling partial orders we have decided that your entire order will be held in abeyance until every item on your order is completely, completely, absolutely completely available."
Investment opportunity ad:
"Mining company seeks investors to finance re-opening of abandoned mine believed to have several untapped veins. We look forward to working with those who have the love of gold in the renewed mine in manifestation."
Advertisement for how a new wonder drug works:
"The memory pill works both thoroughly and throughly by ineffable greatness in accordance with the exceeding abundantly above and beyondness of all other redundancy in the great principle with and/or without distinct exception. The memory pill remembers the memories you should remember. They now become the pill's memories, and the pill's memories remind your memories of things to remember, then it becomes manifested along memory lane as you remember. It's just another amazing breakthrough from Lokbox Pharmaceuticals."
[ps. this upgrade takes some serious getting used to...]
I dunno.. I found a lot of twi's materials rather intellectually un-stimulating. The rise and expansion book, which I no longer have a copy seemed full of dull, lifeless drivel, with an occasional sprinkling of a few Greek words, or a little known or noted figure, like symperesma. Maybe it was mainly the loyster's supposed works.. so full of chaff and drivel, it was a genuine labor to try to milk anything worthwhile out of it..
a kindergarten book.. "Dick and Jane learn how to flush the potty" would prove intellectually superior..
short, maybe one or two examples.. and then to the point..
and then you don't labor the point for another sixty pages..
"Now, due to Dick and Jane's adherence to the present truth and one true household, miracle self-flushing potties are sprouting up in ordinary places, like malls, shopping centers, and gas stations.."
Very amusing. I started using Stylewriter a year or so ago to tighten up the writing for my college papers. For an example of TWI-style writing, I'm posting some screen shots of JAL's last letter and what Stylewriter had to say about it.
Here's a legend:
Red sentences are any sentences over 35 words.
Dark red words or phrases indicate passive verbs, cliches, overused words, or overwriting.
Bold black words are confused words, misused words, confused hyphens
Yep.. but this last "great" epistle of sorts.. my opinion.. it was like someone took the broken ramblings of a drunken sailor, regarding lost love or something, and just ran it through the spell checker..
as far as grammar and spelling.. it passes the microsoft first hurdle..
I really thought about sending a copy of that to one of my former english professors, and see what he had to say about it, but I didn't want to see him have a heart attack..
I give WW an "A" for style, clarity, and precision. No split infinitives, proper use of as and like, etc. I have to give a "B" for content, though.
The Greek text at my disposal, The Greek New Testament (K. Aland, et al., 2nd Ed. Wurttemberg Bible Society, Stuttgart, W, Germany. 1968.) does not have "Christ" in Phil. 4:13 at all. The verse reads (I assume that there is a way to import the Greek alphabet, but I don't know how to do it. I am using w in place of omega):
panta ischuw en tw endunamounti me
all things I can do in the one who empowers me (In Koine Greek, en often means "by means of.")
Aland's text also includes any significant variants, and there are none here. It is possible, though, that some text may have Christ in it.
George
I'm glad people are checking behind me. This shows you how long ago it was that I looked
this up. I ignored the nagging voice that says "check before you hit "reply" "earlier,
"God bless you abundantly in the powerful blessed name that is above all names whom God knew before the foundations of the earth, our living lord and saviour who died for our sins that we might have exceeding power by which we might be blessed exceedingly abundantly above all we could ever ask or think, the man, the second Adam who prevailed over the Adversary our enemy who comes not but for to seek to steal, kill, and destroy, the most blessed name that is above all names . . . Jesus Christ the savior . . ."
Why use a simple salutation when you can use a run-on sentence?
I agree with whoever said Martindale exceeded Wierwille in general wordiness. Now I've got nothing against using "big words", I like to trotting out a variety of words and, especially in writing, try to use words that convey nuance and shades of meaning. But Martindale frequently tossed out "big words" that either were pronounced wrong or were used incorrectly. It was embarrassing sometimes if there was a new person at a tape hookup. His analysis of King James English was even worse. Two examples are his expositions on "rereward" and "reins". "Rereward" was an archaic spelling of "rearward", which meant something like rear guard; it's pretty from the context. But he was teaching it as if it was pronounced re-reward, like a reward again. He'd teach it at Corps night, then you'd hear the stupid local Corps regurgitating it without thought. The other was "reins", which referred to kidneys (where they get renal from I guess). Hebrew often used body parts metaphorically, like heart of compassion, bowels of mercies, etc.
He taught it as if it referred to a horse's reins. <_<
I agree with whoever said Martindale exceeded Wierwille in general wordiness.
<snip>
that's why I couldn't read that awful thing he supposedly wrote. that book. R&E or whatever it was. I feel really sorry for anyone who had to ghost-write to his standards.
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T-Bone
Yeah – good one Excathedra – you've inspired my funny bone - so here goes... TWI writing style in various business contexts.... Late bill notice: "Greetings & blessings to you in the name of ou
Tzaia
One of the things that exasperated me when in TWI was the writing style. Everything was written as though it were an epistle. I got to the point where I couldn't ever finish a letter or an article bec
waysider
Actually, the TWI version was "Dick and Jane BELIEVE For The Potty To Flush Itself"
Posted Images
WordWolf
This was probably a lack of education. Real writing uses different styles, each with their advantages.
I'm not the MOST educated person there, but my own writing style, I think, is effective, and it's as
idiosyncratic as they come. (In other words, people don't wonder if I copied over someone else's
work, as nobody SOUNDS like me.)
Of course, I could still have pulled a vpw and rephrased someone else's work to my own, but as a point of
pride, and a point of honesty, I always did my own writing. Besides, most people's writing reflects a
"regression towards the mean", it's "average." Copying an "average" paper, or in the case of this thread,
an "average" style, will limit you. It's laziness, and it started with vpw, who copied the work AND
the style of others entirely. It's sad but true that many ministers copy the STYLE of others- I consider
that laziness rather than developing your OWN style. But to copy the SUBSTANCE over is laziness as well
as a crime.
If the Corps and the College Division REALLY measured up to the hype vpw and lcm gave them- the academic
claims, at least- then the graduates would all be good communicators, having learned to write effectively.
However, both programs were designed with lazy shortcuts, and the material never rose to the level of
community college. Some of the students did anyway- but there will be those who rise above their education
no matter what the education is.
=================
The wordiness and expounding on minutiae, I'd expect, would be more a reflection of lcm than vpw.
vpw copied- entirely- the work of competent writers and communicators. (He plagiarized their level of
communication with the material.) lcm, on the other hand, always seemed to think that adding words to
anything was an improvement. Look at the corps principles and the definitions of the manifestations.
Under lcm, both got a lot wordier, sometimes doubling in length.
I've noticed that my own style of preparation for a live teaching requires a minimum of 5 hours to
prepare the material to my minimum expectations. I generally prepared a minimum of 6 hours, and each hour
after the 5th SHORTENED the teaching, tightening the wording, cutting out wasteful comments, focusing
the subject more precisely in the wording, and so on. In other words, I preferred a shorter, focused
teaching on a subject rather than a long one, if I could manage it.
==================
EDIT:
This also applies to the "literal translations according to usage"
and "expanded literal translations according to usage" lcm used.
For those wondering, the "literal translations according to usage"
seem to have been plagiarized from other Bible versions.
The "expanded translations" were incredibly long-winded additions
to a verse where lots of personal opinion was inserted.
Example of a "literal translation according to usage":
Philippians 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."
"Literal translation according to usage":
"I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him who infuses inner strength into me."
(I can't even type it without humming it, anymore.)
Amplified Bible:
"I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me (I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who infuses inner strength into me; I am self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency)."
Anyone who thinks this MIGHT have been a coincidence, I have one question for you:
If twi actually did their own work,
why did "Christ" become "Him" when the Greek clearly says "Christ"
but the Amplified says "Him"? Is it just an amazing coincidence?
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
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JeffSjo
Wow, good question Tzaia, it is definitely food for thought to me.
For a while now I have been considering that the manner of how TWI taught the scriptures has served to hide the truth. IMO in any situation where people have been taught that a certain style is equal to substance they will make mistakes. One might think.....well, he didn't quote the scriptures enough or write in a fashion that proves to me that he knows what he's talking about, heck, he didn't even put "GOD" at the top of the page.
By style alone they are judged to be "not good enough."
IMO any ministry that was started by a narcissistic sociopath like Wierwille would grow exceedingly good at tricky B.S.
But as to any one individual, I wouldn't know if they were just following the pattern they learned or if they knew what they were doing.
But somewhere along the line it would seem that any normal person would have some kind of conscience pangs that came with the b.s. they were speaking.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I give WW an "A" for style, clarity, and precision. No split infinitives, proper use of as and like, etc. I have to give a "B" for content, though.
The Greek text at my disposal, The Greek New Testament (K. Aland, et al., 2nd Ed. Wurttemberg Bible Society, Stuttgart, W, Germany. 1968.) does not have "Christ" in Phil. 4:13 at all. The verse reads (I assume that there is a way to import the Greek alphabet, but I don't know how to do it. I am using w in place of omega):
panta ischuw en tw endunamounti me
all things I can do in the one who empowers me (In Koine Greek, en often means "by means of.")
Aland's text also includes any significant variants, and there are none here. It is possible, though, that some text may have Christ in it.
George
Edited by GeorgeStGeorgeLink to comment
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waysider
I think (only my opinion) that the oral styles that proliferated had a greater impact than the written.
Everybody wanted to sound like a clone of VPW or Donnie F.
Even a recently posted thread, regarding prayer, seems to fit this homiletic mold.
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excathedra
everything of god is by design, if you are walking in the spirit
-- quote something from bible goes here --
if you are not walking in the spirit, you are, by choice, not walking in the spirit
and by now you should be walking in the spirit
you are a mature believer
-- quote something from bible goes here --
it saddens me that you have turned away with your hatred and hostility toward the one true god and ministry
-- quote something from bible goes here --
lovingly,
in his service,
-- bible quote goes here --
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waysider
"Bible quote goes here."
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Oakspear
αγαπη
Open a Word document, while in Word, pull down the "insert" menu and then the "symbol" submenu, you will find Greek letters that you can insert one at a time. Then copy the whole thing over to a post
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potato
that was brilliant, excie.
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T-Bone
Yeah – good one Excathedra – you've inspired my funny bone - so here goes...
TWI writing style in various business contexts....
Late bill notice:
"Greetings & blessings to you in the name of our wonderful Redeemer, who paid in full the price for our sins. Unfortunately, he didn't cover your cable bill."
Response from IRS to a TWI follower's income tax filing:
"Please be advised altering tax forms is a serious matter. It has come to our attention that on your 2007 tax form, you crossed out 'married filing separately' and wrote in 'together with yet distinctly independent of'."
Notification of an out of stock item:
"We are sorry to inform you that one of the items on your order is presently unavailable due to factory cutbacks. In an effort to lessen cost overruns to our shipping and handling departments impacted by filling partial orders we have decided that your entire order will be held in abeyance until every item on your order is completely, completely, absolutely completely available."
Investment opportunity ad:
"Mining company seeks investors to finance re-opening of abandoned mine believed to have several untapped veins. We look forward to working with those who have the love of gold in the renewed mine in manifestation."
Advertisement for how a new wonder drug works:
"The memory pill works both thoroughly and throughly by ineffable greatness in accordance with the exceeding abundantly above and beyondness of all other redundancy in the great principle with and/or without distinct exception. The memory pill remembers the memories you should remember. They now become the pill's memories, and the pill's memories remind your memories of things to remember, then it becomes manifested along memory lane as you remember. It's just another amazing breakthrough from Lokbox Pharmaceuticals."
[ps. this upgrade takes some serious getting used to...]
Edited by T-BoneLink to comment
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Ham
I dunno.. I found a lot of twi's materials rather intellectually un-stimulating. The rise and expansion book, which I no longer have a copy seemed full of dull, lifeless drivel, with an occasional sprinkling of a few Greek words, or a little known or noted figure, like symperesma. Maybe it was mainly the loyster's supposed works.. so full of chaff and drivel, it was a genuine labor to try to milk anything worthwhile out of it..
a kindergarten book.. "Dick and Jane learn how to flush the potty" would prove intellectually superior..
short, maybe one or two examples.. and then to the point..
and then you don't labor the point for another sixty pages..
I mean.. enough is enough, isn't it?
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waysider
Actually, the TWI version was "Dick and Jane BELIEVE For The Potty To Flush Itself"
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Ham
hmm.
"Now, due to Dick and Jane's adherence to the present truth and one true household, miracle self-flushing potties are sprouting up in ordinary places, like malls, shopping centers, and gas stations.."
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Tzaia
Very amusing. I started using Stylewriter a year or so ago to tighten up the writing for my college papers. For an example of TWI-style writing, I'm posting some screen shots of JAL's last letter and what Stylewriter had to say about it.
Here's a legend:
Red sentences are any sentences over 35 words.
Dark red words or phrases indicate passive verbs, cliches, overused words, or overwriting.
Bold black words are confused words, misused words, confused hyphens
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Ham
But the vast majority passes microsoft word spell checker.
heh.. I think that merely shows what a NOVICE jl is.. even after all these years..
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Tzaia
Actually, he's gotten worse. His earlier stuff at least scores "good" in a couple of areas.
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Ham
Yep.. but this last "great" epistle of sorts.. my opinion.. it was like someone took the broken ramblings of a drunken sailor, regarding lost love or something, and just ran it through the spell checker..
as far as grammar and spelling.. it passes the microsoft first hurdle..
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Ham
I think one would normally have a trusted, honest individual review something like that before publishing it.
Was there even any kind of review here? Maybe he's *above* that.. not how he thinks *god* breathes or something..
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Ham
I really thought about sending a copy of that to one of my former english professors, and see what he had to say about it, but I didn't want to see him have a heart attack..
"death by composition"..
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WordWolf
I'm glad people are checking behind me. This shows you how long ago it was that I looked
this up. I ignored the nagging voice that says "check before you hit "reply" "earlier,
as you can tell.
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act2
T-bone, thanks for the morning laugh!!!!!!! Excie, your reply is good, also.
Tzaia, I will check out your post later. It should be interesting.
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Bolshevik
Why use a simple salutation when you can use a run-on sentence?
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Oakspear
I agree with whoever said Martindale exceeded Wierwille in general wordiness. Now I've got nothing against using "big words", I like to trotting out a variety of words and, especially in writing, try to use words that convey nuance and shades of meaning. But Martindale frequently tossed out "big words" that either were pronounced wrong or were used incorrectly. It was embarrassing sometimes if there was a new person at a tape hookup. His analysis of King James English was even worse. Two examples are his expositions on "rereward" and "reins". "Rereward" was an archaic spelling of "rearward", which meant something like rear guard; it's pretty from the context. But he was teaching it as if it was pronounced re-reward, like a reward again. He'd teach it at Corps night, then you'd hear the stupid local Corps regurgitating it without thought. The other was "reins", which referred to kidneys (where they get renal from I guess). Hebrew often used body parts metaphorically, like heart of compassion, bowels of mercies, etc.
He taught it as if it referred to a horse's reins. <_<
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RumRunner
He was a horse's what?
Interesting that in academic publishing the wordier pubs are easily ignored as blustering which often cannot be repeated in a laboratory.
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potato
that's why I couldn't read that awful thing he supposedly wrote. that book. R&E or whatever it was. I feel really sorry for anyone who had to ghost-write to his standards.
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