I was a relative new comer to the corps so was not around for Vic, or the forehead's either. However, I did spend a lot of time sneaking their old corps teaching's in-residence. With VPW there was a portion of the tapes that were actual bible teachings. But it usually seemed that a tangent was not far behind. Usually scolding the corps body for one thing or another.
Craig was just horrible. He would publicly defame people who had just left or had been dropped from the corps, or da ministry. He would rant and rave about this and that, scream, yell, shoot way off into left field. I mean from what I heard those teachings would have made any dictator proud of him.
Under Rosalie the teaching became a snore fest. Yelling would have been preferred. And following suit with the STS, teachers were assigned, read a transcript line by line - verbatim in a monotone voice, and the content was rehashed from "proven ministry research."
In short, I used to loathe the though of the approaching corps mornings. At least Rosalie is so old that she cut the meetings to once a month or so. Rosalie the Merciful
To answer your question. The teachings made no difference in my life and I did endeavor to apply what I could. IMHO - more empty promises and marketing to get people into the corps.
So what was the value of the Corps Teachings? ... Did it make a difference in your life? Or was it hours of pseudo-greek metaphoric figure-of-speech rambling?
The value is hard to say.. Was it anything "earth shattering" or some "hidden" holy grail of wisdom? No.. But to say there was no benefit would be like saying reading the scriptures has no benefit. But THAT about sums up the benefit. No more than an average person would have gotten reading the scriptures or going to "church" and listening to another sermon. Nadda, zippo, nothing more to see, you didn't miss out on anything. If there was some "pseudo-greek metaphoric FOS rambling", most just ignored it cause it really had no purpose. Like the one time he sat there for an hour trying to convince everyone there must be 7 FOS in a specific verse cause it just must be "spiritually perfect", so he went through many gyrations of posturing different FOS just to try and get that seventh one to fit (And no, he never figured it out that hour, and instead gave it as a Corps assignment..) ..
Ok, well, I did lie. You did miss out. Missed out on the harassing, vulgar, yelling, rants and raving that those in charge decided to throw at you. You missed out on more legality and life hampering ways. Yes, my friends, this you surely missed out on.. But don't feel bad, you can always join up and enjoy these "benefits".
Actually being in the Corps, and hearing these "Corp teachings", if you weren't drinking the kool-aid, you'd notice that there was actually more work you had to do to separate truth from error, since it was mixed so heavily in everything that was said.. Heavy indoctrination.
So what was the value of the Corps Teachings? I don't recall any significant discussion of them here or at Waydale. Did it make a difference in your life?
The centerpiece of corps teachings revolved around "Corps Night." In the '70s, corps night was scheduled on Tuesdays....like 7:30pm - 10:15pm. Around 1980 or so, twi moved the corps nights to Wednesday....because it came so quickly on the heels of Sunday Night teachings. Then, in 1995, when all corps were put on twi's payroll.....martindale decided to move this corps meeting to Wednesday mornings, so field corps would be available to their people on Wednesday evening, if needed.
Corps teachings covered the gamut:
...Dale Carnegie, The Greatest Salesman in the World, Life is Tremendous
...Memory pegs, Christian Communication, Competent to Counsel
...Jet-Style Packing, Menstruation Periods, Listening with a Purpose
...MAL-Packs, Survival Living, Red Dawn Scenarios, Hunter's Safety Course
...Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Keys to Research, Fig. of Speech, etc.
...JCOP, JCOPS, JC is Not God, Acts, Epistles, etc.
Corps teachings were designed for ONE PURPOSE -- TWI INDOCTRINATION.
Wierwille wanted fully-equipped class instructors to run his classes. Not leaders, not teachers, not decision-makers......but soldiers who would jump on command. The commander-in-chief barked his orders and all was right in "his" world.
Anyone who STILL touts this corps "training" as awesome....hasn't connected the dots, yet.
In one of the taped teachings I heard, Saint Vic was bemoaning the fact that many in the Corps were looking at it to build their ego. He said many thought they were great because they were ready to be limb leaders.
"Limb leaders!" he bellowed. "I created the corps to make good twig leaders."
In one of the taped teachings I heard, Saint Vic was bemoaning the fact that many in the Corps were looking at it to build their ego. He said many thought they were great because they were ready to be limb leaders.
"Limb leaders!" he bellowed. "I created the corps to make good twig leaders."
Sound like they were just trying to emulate Vic's egotism.
....Craig was just horrible. He would publicly defame people who had just left or had been dropped from the corps, or da ministry. He would rant and rave about this and that, scream, yell, shoot way off into left field. I mean from what I heard those teachings would have made any dictator proud of him....
yup - that's what i remember most about corps teachings - LCM on a rampage about something. Often a social commentary or pop culture critique. 2 statements from him that still stand out in my mind. calling Tina Turner a wrinkle in high heels and referring to the athletes in Special Olympics as freaks of nature....yeah, the latter one especially so - since we're very proud parents of a young lady with down syndrome - she swims like a fish and has a bunch of Special Olympic medals to prove it!
As for a smattering of scholarly details [if you want to call them that] of the Bible text - there was always Wal+er C*mmin teachings. His teachings were generously seasoned with references to PFAL and homages to vp. It was like having vp teaching vicariously through wally in this our day and time and hour.....why, there were many times when God would make it snow right there on the PA system just to give us a sign ..........that someone had left one of the Chapel windows open.....dang, winters are cold in Rome City, Indiana!
referring to the athletes in Special Olympics as freaks of nature...
What? He said this? He actually said this aloud? What an absolutely Godless, bloodless, heartless, and cruel thing to think, believe or to say. What kind of immoral and heartless God did they think they were glorifying with speech like this?
Yep, LCM's teachings were major rants. Soon after I went in rez he spent the two hours or whatever going on and on and on about how devilish homosexuality was. "Well," I thought, "If anyone had doubts or actually did that stuff, they surely know now how wrong it is." The same again next week. I thought: "There must be something very serious here. Who is not listening?" Then the next week. And the one after. And for some months.
I learned more than I care to know about what LCM says homosexuals do. Is any of it true? Who knows?
And the defaming...I've shared here before about a Rev whose daughter died (I believe she'd got into drugs in an effort to cope with her TWI upbringing). Instead of compassion, LCM banned anyone from speaking to Rev and his wife. Rev was clearly not fit to be a minister because he didn't have good oversight of his household. Anyone who spoke to them was to be M&A'd. (You can tell LCM had a longsuit in compassion and empathy, can't you?)
Another man's wife died in childbirth (the child survived). It was the parents' (epecially the wife's) fault because she didn't listen to some TWI-head of a doctor. And the wife was too egotistical and insisted in giving birth in the way she wanted to. (There's that longsuit in compassion again!)
I could go on...
Yet sometimes he could bring that energy into expounding a piece of scripture. And then it seemed (to me, at the time) to be rich and passionate. ('Course, I had serious Waybrain then.) Some of it was genuinely interesting. I thought it awesome at the time. When he stopped being so angry and settled down to teach in a reasonable manner, it could be very interesting.
Does it have some value now? I'd have to say, just reading and spending time thinking, meditating, reflecting...has far more value. And is far more memorable.
Remember, under LCM's reign of terror, we were taught to be confrontational. We had a responsibility before God to confront error.
I think it only impressed, really, because I'd heard too many wishy washy sermons in a previous church life and no church minister seemed passionate for God. I remember how he presented - not what he presented.
But now...
...if I were to listen to any Corps Night teaching now...what would I think? Probably, this guy's a nutter. God doesn't deal with people like that. JC didn't condemn the mass of people like that, only the hypocrites. JC's disciples didn't condemn people but reached out with practical help. And this man who yells and gets red in the face, spittle flying...has what part, exactly, in the ministry of reconciliation?
The value of "Corps Teachings" was widely touted as one of the main reasons why a follower should join the Way Corps.
IMO.....corps teachings were a small subset of the corps experience.
The corps experience
1) Isolation from family, friends and loved ones
2) Top-down command and follow orders -- military-style
3) Rigid scheduling, nights & weekends included
4) Surprise red-alerts, fire drills at 3am
5) Sleeping quarters with 18 men in room
6) Very little choice in food served
7) $20 per month spending and budget every penny
8) Aerobic points / Floss chart
9) Twig mtg / Branch mtg / Dorm mtg / Project mtg
10) Work duties / Work bosses
11) Elder corps on campus overseeing younger corps
12) Lightbearers / Major Events / LEAD
13) Assigned & Travel to other campuses
14) Reseach Prep / Research Paper
15) Relationships / Mass Weddings / Graduation
The corps are bonded together via the "corps experience"....not the teachings per se. Sure, there's that tinge of elitism in "being corps"......but more than that, spending two years together in close proximity with rigid directives, doctrines and assignments, cemented relationships and associations. Lots of stuff that's been discussed infinitum.
What? He said this? He actually said this aloud? What an absolutely Godless, bloodless, heartless, and cruel thing to think, believe or to say. What kind of immoral and heartless God did they think they were glorifying with speech like this?
oh, he11 yeah!!!!!
...and i bet Tonto and i are probably the only ones to remember him saying that, for some odd reason <_<. interesting how some insidious barbs seem to operate by a time-delay. we heard that while in residence and left the ministry during our practicum year.
2 years later our daughter was born. So, imagine two cult escapees in the early stage of prying ourselves loose from an entrenched mindset - which by itself is a daunting task - and compound the turmoil with those words of craig looming in our heads.
all i've got to say is that we're thankful - so very very thankful to be out of that sick heartless crap - not just for the personal freedom - but i doubt that our daughter would have been able to enjoy a normal life if we were still in.....Tonto and i often kid that our daughter has more of a social life than we do - of course, we have a lot to do with seeing that she has a social life...and i'm ok with that.....heck we're a couple of old fuddy duddies who work then come home and blob out in front of the TV......and here's the kicker - we're all happy.
Fellow Laborers of Ohio was supposed to be focused on doing a two year, in-depth study of Acts and then returning to our hometowns as better equipped leaders. Instead, we lived in, what was, essentially, a commune..... not the flower power, free drugs and sex kind you see in movies and the like. (In fact, drugs and sex outside of marriage were forbidden) There was very little academic study at all. We spent most of our time tending the garden, repairing the grounds and buildings, maintaining the food co-op and keeping our living quarters clean and organized. The blatant lack of any real academic pursuit was, by far, the most disappointing aspect of the program. And, yet, I see people on-line, gushing about the great "spiritual truths" they learned by pulling weeds and such. Were there any valuable lessons to be learned from the experience? Sure, you can learn at least "something" from virtually any experience in life. But, was there any academic value in the teachings? I would have to answer with a resounding "NO".
...and i bet Tonto and i are probably the only ones to remember him saying that, for some odd reason <_<. interesting how some insidious barbs seem to operate by a time-delay. we heard that while in residence and left the ministry during our practicum year.
I remember that, but it was in 1981 during an Advanced Class at RC. Yeah, he definitely said they were freaks and something about America glorifying weakness or some such drivel.
(In fact, drugs and sex outside of marriage were forbidden)
But apparently not for the Limb Coordinator, right? Except that the "drugs" would be alcohol.
I was in the Way Corps. My first year VP did the teachings, my final year Walter did them. I don't recall much about the Corps teachings to be honest. I liked the debriefing we did after the meeting, though.
It's kind of funny, but 4 years prior to being in the Corps, I was in the College Division and I do remember those teachings. Some of those classes were useful like O.T History, N.T. History, and Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ. Probably because those classes, at least at that time, were pretty basic. There wasn't anything taught in those classes that wouldn't have fit in any other Bible College. At least that's the way I remember it. By the way, Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ was really just kind of a class that looked at the parables. Again, that's my memory.
Reading that put a smile on my face...I am so glad you both enjoy each other and your wonderful children. :)
Every once in awhile I read something on here that perfectly exposes TWI for what it was....evil. That quote of LCM's .... that simple statement.....says all anyone really needs to know about The Way. You know, if it was the Aryan Brotherhood....or maybe something from one of Hitler's speeches...it would still be despicable, but the source would be obvious. Consider, this hate speech was from someone who claimed to be a Christian. He really did learn from VP. Is there any question anymore about what kind of bible they teach?
I don't want to drag this thread off topic too much, but I have to say this...all I can think of after reading this and Twinky's post is about many wonderful gay couples who adopt unwanted children....kids with challenges...and these couples provide them with amazing love, support, security, care, and they know to teach them tolerance of others.
Prior to graduating from high school I was at a party where there was a lot of alcohol and I was consuming as well. The problem was, I was underrage along with a few other people. There were Fellowlaborers present, one of whom later became a reverend. This would have been before you were in FLO, Waysider. Anyway, the Limb Coordinator at the time, made an appearance, took a look around and left without saying a word. The Fellowlaborer's eyes became wide as saucers! The guy who later was ordained just kind of hung his head and went, "Oh no". I heard later they got popped pretty good. In retrospect, I don't know why he just didn't end the party right there and say for the benefit of us all what was wrong. Hey, I thought we were all just having fun, I knew I was.
I'm not sure if Watered Garden was in FLO then, but I know her husband was. He was not at that party, but I'm certain he would remember the incident.
It's kind of funny, but 4 years prior to being in the Corps, I was in the College Division and I do remember those teachings. Some of those classes were useful like O.T History, N.T. History, and Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ. Probably because those classes, at least at that time, were pretty basic. There wasn't anything taught in those classes that wouldn't have fit in any other Bible College. At least that's the way I remember it. By the way, Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ was really just kind of a class that looked at the parables. Again, that's my memory.
That's the kind of thing I had hoped for. Something academic, not homiletic. Instead, we got lessons in the proper soaking of wheat berries and a scream-fest every Wednesday (or was it Thursday?) evening at fellow laborer night. Constant reminders of how totally worthless and incompetent we were. Yeah, that helped a lot. One of the things we were taught was that you can have "joy" regardless of your circumstances. Now,that's not a totally bad thing. It is bad, though, when you use it to rationalize a situation you should be trying to correct, not forebear. If you convince yourself you're happy, no matter what the circumstances, what initiative will you ever have to seek improvements?
One day they teach you....
Good, Better, Best
Never let it rest
Until your good is better
And your better best
The next day they teach you....
You should find joy in a job shoveling horse poop.
So if Mr. Garden was in FLO then, that LC would have been **rl B****n. The one who caught the drinkers, that is.
I remember the fellow to whom I think Waysider refers having been somewhere out of state, then coming back on a weekend when we hapless souls were all harvesting from the garden. I met him coming up the stone steps as I was going down them, on my way to report for squash collection, and he had a paper cup in his hand, holding not coffee or beer. I must have given him an inquiring look, as it was about 10 am or so, and he muttered something about jet lag. I think he had been on the West Coast. Problem is, jet lag mostly kicks in flying east to west, not west to east, or at least that's been my experience.
Incidentally, I don't remember a single word of the socalled classes in FLO. I do remember a couple that were tape classes of the advanced series; one was about manners and customs of the Bible, and one was about manners, period. In the first, I amused myself by watching the future Mr. Garden (which I of course did whenever possible anyway). He would start to bend forward, slowly at first, then steadily until he jerked awake just before he fell entirely asleep. The second I watched a fellow fellowlaborer, neither Mr. Garden nor Waysider, do the same thing, accompanied by a thick string of drool that eventually landed on his Bible. It was fairly entertaining.
I did like the garden, though, as Mr. Garden was there my first year and very impressed that I knew a radish from a weed. :D
Was the horse poop for the garden? I remember mulching with piles of straw that had been out all winter and having mice run down my arm when I picked up a bunch of it. That was a real thrill.
Martindale's "teachings" were like the ravening rantings of someone whose brain has been truly fried. He was heartless and mean-spirited.
I remember very little about my three months of he11 in FWC. I do remember Corps Nights, and the only difference between the Corps Night excoriations and the FLO bitching and complaining was the voice.
Him yelling and screaming and the FWC coordinator's high pitched castrato echoing it with particulars concerning us lowly FWC.
It was a bad dream wrapped in a nightmare draped in madness.
He would start to bend forward, slowly at first, then steadily until he jerked awake just before he fell entirely asleep. The second I watched a fellow fellowlaborer, neither Mr. Garden nor Waysider, do the same thing, accompanied by a thick string of drool that eventually landed on his Bible. It was fairly entertaining.
In my Corps, we collectively decided that the drool thing is what Moses was referring to when he warned about the "botch of Egypt". So, when it says, "Thou shalt be stricken with the botch of Egypt", it means you're going to fall asleep and drool in front of everybody during meetings.
In the first, I amused myself by watching the future Mr. Garden (which I of course did whenever possible anyway). He would start to bend forward, slowly at first, then steadily until he jerked awake just before he fell entirely asleep. The second I watched a fellow fellowlaborer, neither Mr. Garden nor Waysider, do the same thing, accompanied by a thick string of drool that eventually landed on his Bible. It was fairly entertaining.
This incident, paired with a thread on the value of "Corps Teachings", reminds me of a neat little prank initiated by the late Donnie Fugit. During a Corps night teaching, a fellow partipant sitting next to Donnie fell asleep. After a certain period of time in the middle of the teaching, Donnie elbows the guy in the ribs and whispers loudly in his ear, "Stand! Speak in Tongues, and Interpret!" The poor unsuspecting victim finds himself partially awake and regaining consciousness at the same time he is standing up all alone and loudly speaking in tongues and interpreting right in the middle of Corps night.
Now there's some value!!! Only Donnie's mind could twist up into something that perfect in all categories of entertainment value!!!
The value of the corps teachings were non existent...unless you had them in written form and then you could line the bottom of your bird cage with them.
The value of the corps teachings were non existent...unless you had them in written form and then you could line the bottom of your bird cage with them.
So...you're saying there's no value in the 4 hour teaching on the word, "of"?
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OldSkool
I was a relative new comer to the corps so was not around for Vic, or the forehead's either. However, I did spend a lot of time sneaking their old corps teaching's in-residence. With VPW there was a portion of the tapes that were actual bible teachings. But it usually seemed that a tangent was not far behind. Usually scolding the corps body for one thing or another.
Craig was just horrible. He would publicly defame people who had just left or had been dropped from the corps, or da ministry. He would rant and rave about this and that, scream, yell, shoot way off into left field. I mean from what I heard those teachings would have made any dictator proud of him.
Under Rosalie the teaching became a snore fest. Yelling would have been preferred. And following suit with the STS, teachers were assigned, read a transcript line by line - verbatim in a monotone voice, and the content was rehashed from "proven ministry research."
In short, I used to loathe the though of the approaching corps mornings. At least Rosalie is so old that she cut the meetings to once a month or so. Rosalie the Merciful
To answer your question. The teachings made no difference in my life and I did endeavor to apply what I could. IMHO - more empty promises and marketing to get people into the corps.
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TrustAndObey
The value is hard to say.. Was it anything "earth shattering" or some "hidden" holy grail of wisdom? No.. But to say there was no benefit would be like saying reading the scriptures has no benefit. But THAT about sums up the benefit. No more than an average person would have gotten reading the scriptures or going to "church" and listening to another sermon. Nadda, zippo, nothing more to see, you didn't miss out on anything. If there was some "pseudo-greek metaphoric FOS rambling", most just ignored it cause it really had no purpose. Like the one time he sat there for an hour trying to convince everyone there must be 7 FOS in a specific verse cause it just must be "spiritually perfect", so he went through many gyrations of posturing different FOS just to try and get that seventh one to fit (And no, he never figured it out that hour, and instead gave it as a Corps assignment..) ..
Ok, well, I did lie. You did miss out. Missed out on the harassing, vulgar, yelling, rants and raving that those in charge decided to throw at you. You missed out on more legality and life hampering ways. Yes, my friends, this you surely missed out on.. But don't feel bad, you can always join up and enjoy these "benefits".
Actually being in the Corps, and hearing these "Corp teachings", if you weren't drinking the kool-aid, you'd notice that there was actually more work you had to do to separate truth from error, since it was mixed so heavily in everything that was said.. Heavy indoctrination.
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skyrider
The centerpiece of corps teachings revolved around "Corps Night." In the '70s, corps night was scheduled on Tuesdays....like 7:30pm - 10:15pm. Around 1980 or so, twi moved the corps nights to Wednesday....because it came so quickly on the heels of Sunday Night teachings. Then, in 1995, when all corps were put on twi's payroll.....martindale decided to move this corps meeting to Wednesday mornings, so field corps would be available to their people on Wednesday evening, if needed.
Corps teachings covered the gamut:
...Dale Carnegie, The Greatest Salesman in the World, Life is Tremendous
...Memory pegs, Christian Communication, Competent to Counsel
...Jet-Style Packing, Menstruation Periods, Listening with a Purpose
...MAL-Packs, Survival Living, Red Dawn Scenarios, Hunter's Safety Course
...Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Keys to Research, Fig. of Speech, etc.
...JCOP, JCOPS, JC is Not God, Acts, Epistles, etc.
Corps teachings were designed for ONE PURPOSE -- TWI INDOCTRINATION.
Wierwille wanted fully-equipped class instructors to run his classes. Not leaders, not teachers, not decision-makers......but soldiers who would jump on command. The commander-in-chief barked his orders and all was right in "his" world.
Anyone who STILL touts this corps "training" as awesome....hasn't connected the dots, yet.
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So_crates
Skyrider, i would agree with you.
In one of the taped teachings I heard, Saint Vic was bemoaning the fact that many in the Corps were looking at it to build their ego. He said many thought they were great because they were ready to be limb leaders.
"Limb leaders!" he bellowed. "I created the corps to make good twig leaders."
SoCrates
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OldSkool
Sound like they were just trying to emulate Vic's egotism.
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T-Bone
yup - that's what i remember most about corps teachings - LCM on a rampage about something. Often a social commentary or pop culture critique. 2 statements from him that still stand out in my mind. calling Tina Turner a wrinkle in high heels and referring to the athletes in Special Olympics as freaks of nature....yeah, the latter one especially so - since we're very proud parents of a young lady with down syndrome - she swims like a fish and has a bunch of Special Olympic medals to prove it!
As for a smattering of scholarly details [if you want to call them that] of the Bible text - there was always Wal+er C*mmin teachings. His teachings were generously seasoned with references to PFAL and homages to vp. It was like having vp teaching vicariously through wally in this our day and time and hour.....why, there were many times when God would make it snow right there on the PA system just to give us a sign ..........that someone had left one of the Chapel windows open.....dang, winters are cold in Rome City, Indiana!
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geisha779
What? He said this? He actually said this aloud? What an absolutely Godless, bloodless, heartless, and cruel thing to think, believe or to say. What kind of immoral and heartless God did they think they were glorifying with speech like this?
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Twinky
Yep, LCM's teachings were major rants. Soon after I went in rez he spent the two hours or whatever going on and on and on about how devilish homosexuality was. "Well," I thought, "If anyone had doubts or actually did that stuff, they surely know now how wrong it is." The same again next week. I thought: "There must be something very serious here. Who is not listening?" Then the next week. And the one after. And for some months.
I learned more than I care to know about what LCM says homosexuals do. Is any of it true? Who knows?
And the defaming...I've shared here before about a Rev whose daughter died (I believe she'd got into drugs in an effort to cope with her TWI upbringing). Instead of compassion, LCM banned anyone from speaking to Rev and his wife. Rev was clearly not fit to be a minister because he didn't have good oversight of his household. Anyone who spoke to them was to be M&A'd. (You can tell LCM had a longsuit in compassion and empathy, can't you?)
Another man's wife died in childbirth (the child survived). It was the parents' (epecially the wife's) fault because she didn't listen to some TWI-head of a doctor. And the wife was too egotistical and insisted in giving birth in the way she wanted to. (There's that longsuit in compassion again!)
I could go on...
Yet sometimes he could bring that energy into expounding a piece of scripture. And then it seemed (to me, at the time) to be rich and passionate. ('Course, I had serious Waybrain then.) Some of it was genuinely interesting. I thought it awesome at the time. When he stopped being so angry and settled down to teach in a reasonable manner, it could be very interesting.
Does it have some value now? I'd have to say, just reading and spending time thinking, meditating, reflecting...has far more value. And is far more memorable.
Remember, under LCM's reign of terror, we were taught to be confrontational. We had a responsibility before God to confront error.
I think it only impressed, really, because I'd heard too many wishy washy sermons in a previous church life and no church minister seemed passionate for God. I remember how he presented - not what he presented.
But now...
...if I were to listen to any Corps Night teaching now...what would I think? Probably, this guy's a nutter. God doesn't deal with people like that. JC didn't condemn the mass of people like that, only the hypocrites. JC's disciples didn't condemn people but reached out with practical help. And this man who yells and gets red in the face, spittle flying...has what part, exactly, in the ministry of reconciliation?
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skyrider
IMO.....corps teachings were a small subset of the corps experience.
The corps experience
1) Isolation from family, friends and loved ones
2) Top-down command and follow orders -- military-style
3) Rigid scheduling, nights & weekends included
4) Surprise red-alerts, fire drills at 3am
5) Sleeping quarters with 18 men in room
6) Very little choice in food served
7) $20 per month spending and budget every penny
8) Aerobic points / Floss chart
9) Twig mtg / Branch mtg / Dorm mtg / Project mtg
10) Work duties / Work bosses
11) Elder corps on campus overseeing younger corps
12) Lightbearers / Major Events / LEAD
13) Assigned & Travel to other campuses
14) Reseach Prep / Research Paper
15) Relationships / Mass Weddings / Graduation
The corps are bonded together via the "corps experience"....not the teachings per se. Sure, there's that tinge of elitism in "being corps"......but more than that, spending two years together in close proximity with rigid directives, doctrines and assignments, cemented relationships and associations. Lots of stuff that's been discussed infinitum.
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T-Bone
oh, he11 yeah!!!!!
...and i bet Tonto and i are probably the only ones to remember him saying that, for some odd reason <_<. interesting how some insidious barbs seem to operate by a time-delay. we heard that while in residence and left the ministry during our practicum year.
2 years later our daughter was born. So, imagine two cult escapees in the early stage of prying ourselves loose from an entrenched mindset - which by itself is a daunting task - and compound the turmoil with those words of craig looming in our heads.
all i've got to say is that we're thankful - so very very thankful to be out of that sick heartless crap - not just for the personal freedom - but i doubt that our daughter would have been able to enjoy a normal life if we were still in.....Tonto and i often kid that our daughter has more of a social life than we do - of course, we have a lot to do with seeing that she has a social life...and i'm ok with that.....heck we're a couple of old fuddy duddies who work then come home and blob out in front of the TV......and here's the kicker - we're all happy.
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waysider
Fellow Laborers of Ohio was supposed to be focused on doing a two year, in-depth study of Acts and then returning to our hometowns as better equipped leaders. Instead, we lived in, what was, essentially, a commune..... not the flower power, free drugs and sex kind you see in movies and the like. (In fact, drugs and sex outside of marriage were forbidden) There was very little academic study at all. We spent most of our time tending the garden, repairing the grounds and buildings, maintaining the food co-op and keeping our living quarters clean and organized. The blatant lack of any real academic pursuit was, by far, the most disappointing aspect of the program. And, yet, I see people on-line, gushing about the great "spiritual truths" they learned by pulling weeds and such. Were there any valuable lessons to be learned from the experience? Sure, you can learn at least "something" from virtually any experience in life. But, was there any academic value in the teachings? I would have to answer with a resounding "NO".
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Broken Arrow
I remember that, but it was in 1981 during an Advanced Class at RC. Yeah, he definitely said they were freaks and something about America glorifying weakness or some such drivel.
But apparently not for the Limb Coordinator, right? Except that the "drugs" would be alcohol.
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waysider
Yes, there was one such LC that I recall.
(For us peons, there was no alcohol, either.)
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Broken Arrow
I was in the Way Corps. My first year VP did the teachings, my final year Walter did them. I don't recall much about the Corps teachings to be honest. I liked the debriefing we did after the meeting, though.
It's kind of funny, but 4 years prior to being in the Corps, I was in the College Division and I do remember those teachings. Some of those classes were useful like O.T History, N.T. History, and Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ. Probably because those classes, at least at that time, were pretty basic. There wasn't anything taught in those classes that wouldn't have fit in any other Bible College. At least that's the way I remember it. By the way, Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ was really just kind of a class that looked at the parables. Again, that's my memory.
Some of the classes were pure garbage.
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geisha779
Reading that put a smile on my face...I am so glad you both enjoy each other and your wonderful children. :)
Every once in awhile I read something on here that perfectly exposes TWI for what it was....evil. That quote of LCM's .... that simple statement.....says all anyone really needs to know about The Way. You know, if it was the Aryan Brotherhood....or maybe something from one of Hitler's speeches...it would still be despicable, but the source would be obvious. Consider, this hate speech was from someone who claimed to be a Christian. He really did learn from VP. Is there any question anymore about what kind of bible they teach?
I don't want to drag this thread off topic too much, but I have to say this...all I can think of after reading this and Twinky's post is about many wonderful gay couples who adopt unwanted children....kids with challenges...and these couples provide them with amazing love, support, security, care, and they know to teach them tolerance of others.
TWI is just absurd.
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Broken Arrow
Prior to graduating from high school I was at a party where there was a lot of alcohol and I was consuming as well. The problem was, I was underrage along with a few other people. There were Fellowlaborers present, one of whom later became a reverend. This would have been before you were in FLO, Waysider. Anyway, the Limb Coordinator at the time, made an appearance, took a look around and left without saying a word. The Fellowlaborer's eyes became wide as saucers! The guy who later was ordained just kind of hung his head and went, "Oh no". I heard later they got popped pretty good. In retrospect, I don't know why he just didn't end the party right there and say for the benefit of us all what was wrong. Hey, I thought we were all just having fun, I knew I was.
I'm not sure if Watered Garden was in FLO then, but I know her husband was. He was not at that party, but I'm certain he would remember the incident.
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waysider
That's the kind of thing I had hoped for. Something academic, not homiletic. Instead, we got lessons in the proper soaking of wheat berries and a scream-fest every Wednesday (or was it Thursday?) evening at fellow laborer night. Constant reminders of how totally worthless and incompetent we were. Yeah, that helped a lot. One of the things we were taught was that you can have "joy" regardless of your circumstances. Now,that's not a totally bad thing. It is bad, though, when you use it to rationalize a situation you should be trying to correct, not forebear. If you convince yourself you're happy, no matter what the circumstances, what initiative will you ever have to seek improvements?
One day they teach you....
Good, Better, Best
Never let it rest
Until your good is better
And your better best
The next day they teach you....
You should find joy in a job shoveling horse poop.
:wacko:
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Watered Garden
So if Mr. Garden was in FLO then, that LC would have been **rl B****n. The one who caught the drinkers, that is.
I remember the fellow to whom I think Waysider refers having been somewhere out of state, then coming back on a weekend when we hapless souls were all harvesting from the garden. I met him coming up the stone steps as I was going down them, on my way to report for squash collection, and he had a paper cup in his hand, holding not coffee or beer. I must have given him an inquiring look, as it was about 10 am or so, and he muttered something about jet lag. I think he had been on the West Coast. Problem is, jet lag mostly kicks in flying east to west, not west to east, or at least that's been my experience.
Incidentally, I don't remember a single word of the socalled classes in FLO. I do remember a couple that were tape classes of the advanced series; one was about manners and customs of the Bible, and one was about manners, period. In the first, I amused myself by watching the future Mr. Garden (which I of course did whenever possible anyway). He would start to bend forward, slowly at first, then steadily until he jerked awake just before he fell entirely asleep. The second I watched a fellow fellowlaborer, neither Mr. Garden nor Waysider, do the same thing, accompanied by a thick string of drool that eventually landed on his Bible. It was fairly entertaining.
I did like the garden, though, as Mr. Garden was there my first year and very impressed that I knew a radish from a weed. :D
Was the horse poop for the garden? I remember mulching with piles of straw that had been out all winter and having mice run down my arm when I picked up a bunch of it. That was a real thrill.
Not really.
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Watered Garden
Martindale's "teachings" were like the ravening rantings of someone whose brain has been truly fried. He was heartless and mean-spirited.
I remember very little about my three months of he11 in FWC. I do remember Corps Nights, and the only difference between the Corps Night excoriations and the FLO bitching and complaining was the voice.
Him yelling and screaming and the FWC coordinator's high pitched castrato echoing it with particulars concerning us lowly FWC.
It was a bad dream wrapped in a nightmare draped in madness.
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Broken Arrow
In my Corps, we collectively decided that the drool thing is what Moses was referring to when he warned about the "botch of Egypt". So, when it says, "Thou shalt be stricken with the botch of Egypt", it means you're going to fall asleep and drool in front of everybody during meetings.
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chockfull
This incident, paired with a thread on the value of "Corps Teachings", reminds me of a neat little prank initiated by the late Donnie Fugit. During a Corps night teaching, a fellow partipant sitting next to Donnie fell asleep. After a certain period of time in the middle of the teaching, Donnie elbows the guy in the ribs and whispers loudly in his ear, "Stand! Speak in Tongues, and Interpret!" The poor unsuspecting victim finds himself partially awake and regaining consciousness at the same time he is standing up all alone and loudly speaking in tongues and interpreting right in the middle of Corps night.
Now there's some value!!! Only Donnie's mind could twist up into something that perfect in all categories of entertainment value!!!
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Watered Garden
So did VPW kill him or just make him wish he was dead?
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GrouchoMarxJr
The value of the corps teachings were non existent...unless you had them in written form and then you could line the bottom of your bird cage with them.
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Broken Arrow
So...you're saying there's no value in the 4 hour teaching on the word, "of"?
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