Didn't the mixing of Way funds to help support Gahagan (I know I donated some money at ministry events to him) lead to the Way losing its tax exempt status for several years? POW-WOWS (Political WOWS) were sent to Maine to help get him and perhaps others elected, IIRC.
and since this is such an important political thread, i did want to add that veeps went to the presidential ball and he got mad or something -- i think because he wasn't at the head table
Didn't the mixing of Way funds to help support Gahagan (I know I donated some money at ministry events to him) lead to the Way losing its tax exempt status for several years? POW-WOWS (Political WOWS) were sent to Maine to help get him and perhaps others elected, IIRC.
I was told, by a branch leader that left the ministry, that what lead to the ministry losing its tax exempt status for several years is the Internal Revenue finding out about Saint Vic's and Craigmeister's extracurricular activities and using them as leverage in the negotiations.
You know the ol', "Youinns play ball with us or we'll let everyone know who youinns has been playing ball with. We're making you an offer you can't refuse."
I'd agree with you, mstar1. That or an attempt to water down his contact with the ministry. You know, like when kids try to excuse bad actions: "Yah, I did it, but then so do lots of people."
SoCrates
It ain't just kids that do that. It's very human and very common.
And I'd say it was likely intended to do both what Mstar said as well as to water down his experience with TWI.
He's involved in a non-profit "religious" organization, that backs him.
He makes a break from the "liberal" republican party, and makes an independent run for senate..
when he loses the race, pitifully, at that.. his involvement with the group ends "abruptly". By his admission, practically the second he lost the election..
too many unanswered questions here. Too bad he won't come by to post..
I only have a few questions.
1. The abrupt departure, was it on your terms, or on "theirs"? Was the victoid calm and understanding about your defeat? Or were you exposed to what could be described as "not his good side"? What was the last communication with hq like? Well.. this is all one question. Just needs a few details.. I'm sure you remember them, like they happened yesterday..
2. Did you previously buy into the victoid's wild conspiracy theories bought from the press of liberty lobby? Or currently?
I suspect that it was more his decision having seen how Wierwille got people in a religious organization to do political organizing field work. He may have gotten feedback from people in Maine who recognized the implications of that particular problematic arrangement.
It's not that other religious organizations haven't blurred (crossed) the line between political and religious activity (on both sides of the political spectrum). Rather, this was incredibly blatant given the fact that TWI was, at that time, a quickly growing, but still VERY small religious group.
And a more "mature" religious group probably would have had the smarts to find ways to make it less obvious that they were sending their religious volunteers to do political field work.
I vaguely recall that TWI came under sharp criticism for being involved in politics so their tax exempt status came under scrutiny. I might be wrong about that.
At the time, I do remember being shocked at how disappointed some people were at Gehagan's loss. I was at a meeting where the esteemed Gehagan said that running for Senate was, "an opportunity to take a stand." I never thought for a moment that he would win and I didn't think anyone else did either. I mean, when was the last time an independent won a Senatorial election? This was prior to Lieberman who did it just a few years ago. Anyway, it's not very common and the only time it's ever worked is when the candidate is well known having been a former member of a particular major party. Really, I thought the whole purpose was to inspire other believers to get involved in the political process. Silly naive me.
Do you remember who he was up against? It was Edmund Muskie, former Vice-Presidential candidate with Hubert Humphrey and very popular in Maine. He was nationally known for crying out loud. Gahagan actually thought he was going to beat him? I don't think so. Even TWI with its millions was no match for the coffers Muskie had at his disposal.
Do you remember who he was up against? It was Edmund Muskie, former Vice-Presidential candidate with Hubert Humphrey and very popular in Maine. He was nationally known for crying out loud. Gahagan actually thought he was going to beat him? I don't think so. Even TWI with its millions was no match for the coffers Muskie had at his disposal.
Another example of David like believing matching itself against a Goliath---and landing flat on it face.
Didn't the mixing of Way funds to help support Gahagan (I know I donated some money at ministry events to him) lead to the Way losing its tax exempt status for several years? POW-WOWS (Political WOWS) were sent to Maine to help get him and perhaps others elected, IIRC.
I'm pretty sure you're correct about this. Maybe Wierwille asked for his money back after Gahagan lost the election. Or maybe Gahagan asked for his money back from the PFAL class. Believing didn't equal Receiving. Maybe his needs and wants weren't parallel :-)
I'm pretty sure there was some kind of government investigation regarding TWI helping him and I have a friend who was involved and I will try to find out more. It seems this individual was told to lie to the FBI or whoever if asked certain questions, perhaps "Did this TWI organization tell you to campaign for him?"
Speaking of Bob Richards, I recall that he was exposed to twi in some way. Maybe he was taking pfal or something and either LCM or VP dissed him about something. After that he was gone. LCM said "too many Wheaties". If they did something like that to Hayes Gahagan...just wondering.
In the fall of 1978 I lived in Columbia, MO and we all had to help this guy who was running for state rep. Went door to door for the guy. He lost, but during that same time we heard about similar political activity in Kansas where a twi believer was running for office. Some doors just never seemed to open for twi people.
Speaking of Bob Richards, I recall that he was exposed to twi in some way. Maybe he was taking pfal or something and either LCM or VP dissed him about something. After that he was gone. LCM said "too many Wheaties". If they did something like that to Hayes Gahagan...just wondering.
In the fall of 1978 I lived in Columbia, MO and we all had to help this guy who was running for state rep. Went door to door for the guy. He lost, but during that same time we heard about similar political activity in Kansas where a twi believer was running for office. Some doors just never seemed to open for twi people.
I think the person in Kansas you're referring to may have won. I could be wrong though. Anyway, were you around when Bobby Richards spoke at a Corp week? I don't recall there being so much a rift as much as a lack of interest on Richards' part. I heard he was given the tapes of PFAL and after a long time of not listening to them, they asked for them to be returned which he did. Anyway, sorry to derail the thread, now, back to our scheduled program.
After 11 years, we returned to Maine. Linda is from the Portland area. We lived in North Sebago, registered to vote, enrolled in the Republican Party and served on the Cumberland County Republican Committee. A few Cumberland County Republicans actually remembered me and joked about all the political and religious sparks that had flown around my campaign for national office.
You can be sure that the POWOWs were stumping for Gahagan and witnessing for TWI at the same time, which would quickly become an embarrassment to Gahagan. As to TWI's run-in with the IRS, yes, one of the few things you cannot do as a nonprofit is officially endorse a political candidate, and Wierwille's encouraging support from the podium, sending WOWs to Maine to work for the campaign, distributing literature that encouraged contributing to Hayes' campaign, and perhaps sending abundant sharing to the campaign were enough to put TWI in deep doodoo. They didn't need any more dirt than that.
I remember being sent (I think our whole branch went) to Maine to go door to door campaigning for Gahagan. It was just for one day. We were told not to let people know we were from out of state. I thought that was pretty ridiculous. It was the first time many of us (myself included) had even been to Maine. What were we supposed to say when people asked where we were from? All I remember about that awfully long day was that I didn't feel well. My stomach was upset. I handed out the literature and tried to avoid answering questions because I didn't want to lie to anyone.
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hiway29
If his cult involvement keeps him from ever getting elected to anything, then I have to admit the Way accomplished something worthwhile after all.
mstar1
I asked that on the last page and got no answer yet--I think its probably politicspeak for "I was the only one but I want you to think that I was one of hundreds. I'm a politician -its my job to s
waysider
People have told me I'm a dead ringer for George Clooney.
(Mostly blind people...)
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Ham
blind is better, isn't it?
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excathedra
who gives !!!!! lol
he is NOT a dead ringer for googoo
who's name is easier to spell i want to know
my grandmother's family name is geoghegan which of course is as irish as paddy's pig (as my mom says)
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So_crates
Paddy's pig rolled the watermelon out of the lake?
(see the maslow thread)
SoCrates
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excathedra
i don't know socrates i scrolled thru that thread and couldn't find paddy's pig or don't get it sowwy
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DogLover
Didn't the mixing of Way funds to help support Gahagan (I know I donated some money at ministry events to him) lead to the Way losing its tax exempt status for several years? POW-WOWS (Political WOWS) were sent to Maine to help get him and perhaps others elected, IIRC.
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waysider
If a watermelon fell in the lake and there were no cats Paddy's pig wasn't around to push it back out, did the watermelon make a splash?
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excathedra
ohhhhhhhh now i get it
--
i remember something about that doglover
i knew a lot of POW WOWs
--
and since this is such an important political thread, i did want to add that veeps went to the presidential ball and he got mad or something -- i think because he wasn't at the head table
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So_crates
I was told, by a branch leader that left the ministry, that what lead to the ministry losing its tax exempt status for several years is the Internal Revenue finding out about Saint Vic's and Craigmeister's extracurricular activities and using them as leverage in the negotiations.
You know the ol', "Youinns play ball with us or we'll let everyone know who youinns has been playing ball with. We're making you an offer you can't refuse."
SoCrates
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Shellon
LOL sticky dude
Only once about 4 ish years ago, ha!
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Rocky
It ain't just kids that do that. It's very human and very common.
And I'd say it was likely intended to do both what Mstar said as well as to water down his experience with TWI.
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Rocky
I suspect that it was more his decision having seen how Wierwille got people in a religious organization to do political organizing field work. He may have gotten feedback from people in Maine who recognized the implications of that particular problematic arrangement.
It's not that other religious organizations haven't blurred (crossed) the line between political and religious activity (on both sides of the political spectrum). Rather, this was incredibly blatant given the fact that TWI was, at that time, a quickly growing, but still VERY small religious group.
And a more "mature" religious group probably would have had the smarts to find ways to make it less obvious that they were sending their religious volunteers to do political field work.
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Broken Arrow
I vaguely recall that TWI came under sharp criticism for being involved in politics so their tax exempt status came under scrutiny. I might be wrong about that.
At the time, I do remember being shocked at how disappointed some people were at Gehagan's loss. I was at a meeting where the esteemed Gehagan said that running for Senate was, "an opportunity to take a stand." I never thought for a moment that he would win and I didn't think anyone else did either. I mean, when was the last time an independent won a Senatorial election? This was prior to Lieberman who did it just a few years ago. Anyway, it's not very common and the only time it's ever worked is when the candidate is well known having been a former member of a particular major party. Really, I thought the whole purpose was to inspire other believers to get involved in the political process. Silly naive me.
Do you remember who he was up against? It was Edmund Muskie, former Vice-Presidential candidate with Hubert Humphrey and very popular in Maine. He was nationally known for crying out loud. Gahagan actually thought he was going to beat him? I don't think so. Even TWI with its millions was no match for the coffers Muskie had at his disposal.
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So_crates
Another example of David like believing matching itself against a Goliath---and landing flat on it face.
SoCrates
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taxicab
I'm pretty sure you're correct about this. Maybe Wierwille asked for his money back after Gahagan lost the election. Or maybe Gahagan asked for his money back from the PFAL class. Believing didn't equal Receiving. Maybe his needs and wants weren't parallel :-)
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Watered Garden
I'm pretty sure there was some kind of government investigation regarding TWI helping him and I have a friend who was involved and I will try to find out more. It seems this individual was told to lie to the FBI or whoever if asked certain questions, perhaps "Did this TWI organization tell you to campaign for him?"
I will see if the person remembers anything.
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excathedra
how old is that wayfer politician now?
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Ham
He has to be at least 58 or so.. at least one would think.
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johniam
Speaking of Bob Richards, I recall that he was exposed to twi in some way. Maybe he was taking pfal or something and either LCM or VP dissed him about something. After that he was gone. LCM said "too many Wheaties". If they did something like that to Hayes Gahagan...just wondering.
In the fall of 1978 I lived in Columbia, MO and we all had to help this guy who was running for state rep. Went door to door for the guy. He lost, but during that same time we heard about similar political activity in Kansas where a twi believer was running for office. Some doors just never seemed to open for twi people.
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Broken Arrow
I think the person in Kansas you're referring to may have won. I could be wrong though. Anyway, were you around when Bobby Richards spoke at a Corp week? I don't recall there being so much a rift as much as a lack of interest on Richards' part. I heard he was given the tapes of PFAL and after a long time of not listening to them, they asked for them to be returned which he did. Anyway, sorry to derail the thread, now, back to our scheduled program.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
not sure what Sarah would say to that.
non poison
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Ham
I dunno. To me, they seem to have very similar facial features.. admittedly, he seems to have a certain "puffiness" not exhibited by k*vin..
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shazdancer
On his blog, HG also said:
You can be sure that the POWOWs were stumping for Gahagan and witnessing for TWI at the same time, which would quickly become an embarrassment to Gahagan. As to TWI's run-in with the IRS, yes, one of the few things you cannot do as a nonprofit is officially endorse a political candidate, and Wierwille's encouraging support from the podium, sending WOWs to Maine to work for the campaign, distributing literature that encouraged contributing to Hayes' campaign, and perhaps sending abundant sharing to the campaign were enough to put TWI in deep doodoo. They didn't need any more dirt than that.
Shaz
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hampshire73
I remember being sent (I think our whole branch went) to Maine to go door to door campaigning for Gahagan. It was just for one day. We were told not to let people know we were from out of state. I thought that was pretty ridiculous. It was the first time many of us (myself included) had even been to Maine. What were we supposed to say when people asked where we were from? All I remember about that awfully long day was that I didn't feel well. My stomach was upset. I handed out the literature and tried to avoid answering questions because I didn't want to lie to anyone.
I still don't like politics.
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