Greasespot Cafe and its patrons

[skyrider]

Greasespot Café is an open dialogue and lively place. Many of the regular customers here,

the patrons, like coming here for a variety of reasons. Heck, there's a back hallway and

basement for the deep thinkers and their books, the doctrinal types.

New people are always welcome. You got questions? You got viewpoints? You deeply entrenched

into your way of thinking? Fine. If you want to strongly state your case, most here will

gather around and listen.....to a point. We love open dialogue. That's the thing that separates

this joint from everyone else in wayworld and splinterworld.

We were not allowed to publicly question the pfal class after session 12. Twi has always railroaded

their classes and agenda without open dialogue or consideration of the individual. Wierwille's brand

was authoritative dogma and mandates. We left. Things splintered into hundreds of different corners.

Even places like the CES/STFL, CFF, Geerites, Finnyganites, Panarelloites......where is there

OPEN DIALOGUE and PUBLIC DISCOURSE?

This place is special. The doors are always open.

Like I stated yesterday...."After 15 years of Waydale and GSC.....I would be surprised if there

is anything new that hasn't been covered 50 times or more. And, we've had our share of scuffles,

food-fights, hotheads, drive-byes, righteous rivals, disgruntles, those who flame the corps/clergy

and those who claim everyone at this café is possessed."

If you come into the café and want to be left alone [lurk]....fine.

If you want to engage in some lively, thought-provoking dialogue.....have at it.

If you like to be brash and confrontational? Heck, we've seen it plenty of times.

If you think that you can push people around, you might want to rethink that.

This 21st Century cyber-café gives everyone a voice.

And......anonymity is our "nametag."

[Bolshevik]

. . .

We were not allowed to publicly question the pfal class after session 12.

How was this? Did they call the cops?

Like I stated yesterday...."After 15 years of Waydale and GSC.....I would be surprised if there

is anything new that hasn't been covered 50 times or more. And, we've had our share of scuffles,

food-fights, hotheads, drive-byes, righteous rivals, disgruntles, those who flame the corps/clergy

and those who claim everyone at this café is possessed."

. . .

I assume this is hyperbole. Otherwise it's a very sad statement, a myopic viewpoint even. Times change, new things SHOULD come up.

[skyrider]

Times change, new things SHOULD come up.

Like what?

Examples?

[chockfull]

This 21st Century cyber-café gives everyone a voice.

And......anonymity is our "nametag."

I think that's pretty good actually, don't you guys? If everyone has a voice, can connect, and can discuss the part of our story that intertwined with TWI for the purpose of making sense of our individual story and growth and continuing our story and growth?

Of course I say this now being all conciliatory and tomorrow I'll be off on another rant somewhere probably. ;)

[Bolshevik]

Like what?

Examples?

I've sent you PMs about it before.

(or at least tried to)

Edited January 27, 2016 by Bolshevik

[skyrider]

I've sent you PMs about it before.

(or at least tried to)

Nope. Not one.

What "new things" or examples?

[Bolshevik]

Nope. Not one.

What "new things" or examples?

hmmm . . . how to deal with wayfers.

[skyrider]

This 21st Century cyber-café gives everyone a voice.

And......anonymity is our "nametag."

The Café gives everyone a voice.

1) Tell your life story

2) Go to friend-tracker to locate someone

3) Sharing of someone who has deceased

4) Questions, answers, books, dialogue

5) Never a part of twi, but dating someone who is

6) Why should you join or avoid twi

7) What was good in pfal

8) What was wrong in pfal

9) Things about WOW, Fellow-Laborers, Corps, Clergy

10) Personal incidents, observations, confrontations, etc.

11) Someone who ran into a post-twi prez lcm

12) Someone who lurks here and NEVER posts

13) WayGB who keep their eyes on this place

14) Those who like to connect the dots of twi's evil

15) Etc. etc. etc.

Whatever your reason for walking thru the GS doors, you've entered a unique place.

Many have tried to duplicate its prestige, but pressured out of existence for one

reason or another.

With 143 pages of thread in the By The Way forum alone,

you can see the vastness of subjects that have been discussed

thru the years. Many, many posters have come and gone....but

their words embed the wisdom of a multitude of counsellors.

Doors are always open.

[Bolshevik]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prestige

noun pres·tige \pre-ˈstēzh, -ˈstēj\

Simple Definition of prestige

: the respect and admiration that someone or something gets for being successful or important

Full Definition of prestige

1

: standing or estimation in the eyes of people : weight or credit in general opinion

2

: commanding position in people's minds

pres·tige·ful play \-fəl\ adjective

Seems like you're promoting GSC much like "The Class" was. "We may not have all the Truth, but we know where to find it"

BS meter is dinging. Just saying.

GSC can help some I'm sure. On the forums, certain groups of people are more certainly accepted than others.

[skyrider]

You don't think GSC has been successful in exposing twi's underbelly?

[Bolshevik]

You don't think GSC has been successful in exposing twi's underbelly?

Why would I think it has?

[Raf]

Waydale, and to a lesser extent GSC, was crucial in exposing the truth of TWI and providing its former members a place to gather and share thoughts. That TWI is a shell of its former self can at least PARTLY be attributed to this site and its predecessor. However, let's not exaggerate our influence. TWI was on a downward spiral long before we came along.

[Bolshevik]

Waydale, and to a lesser extent GSC, was crucial in exposing the truth of TWI and providing its former members a place to gather and share thoughts. That TWI is a shell of its former self can at least PARTLY be attributed to this site and its predecessor. However, let's not exaggerate our influence. TWI was on a downward spiral long before we came along.

I can agree with that.

One thing I learned was there isn't much posted that wasn't well known back in the 1970s. The big questions are why people pretend not to know for so long, or admittedly say "It's not a big deal".

[Raf]

A lot of stuff was known, but not a lot was widely disseminated and very little was available in one place for handy dandy reference.

[skyrider]

Waydale, and to a lesser extent GSC, was crucial in exposing the truth of TWI and providing its former members a place to gather and share thoughts. That TWI is a shell of its former self can at least PARTLY be attributed to this site and its predecessor. However, let's not exaggerate our influence. TWI was on a downward spiral long before we came along.

Raf....sure, that's fair.

But for those of us who've been around these threads since like 2000......

lots of folks have come to this forum and THANKED GSC because they felt

1)ashamed, 2)guilt-ridden, 3)confused, 4)etc. for leaving twi.

No, let's not exaggerate its influence.......BUT it seems fair to say

that hundreds upon hundreds have walked out of here MORE CONFIDENT,

MORE ASSURED, and MORE ADAMANT to not get sucked into a cult again.

It matters not to me who poo-poos the Greasespot Café website.....

some just haven't connected the dots of a cult's devastation, rape,

incest, and life-long turmoil. Read: The Subtle Power of Spiritual

Abuse.

Yeah....ABUSE. That's twi.

And, I will gladly stand against its evil.

[TLC]

I can agree with that.

One thing I learned was there isn't much posted that wasn't well known back in the 1970s. The big questions are why people pretend not to know for so long, or admittedly say "It's not a big deal".

It was probably far less known than you seem to think, even among corps and staff.

[Raf]

My personal belief: A lot of people knew a lot of things, but few people knew "everything." Not that anyone knows everything now, but we have MUCH more of the puzzle pieces in place than we did when we were in.

I knew, for example, that Dubofsky and Lynn were no longer associated with TWI when I got in/out in the late 1980s. But I didn't know why. I knew that there were rumors about weapons training, but I didn't know the truth about them. I knew there were allegations of plagiarism, but I had never seen it documented. I knew that Passing of a Patriarch was a big deal, but I had never read it in its proper historical context (even when I did read it after it was formally published in the early 1990s). And I'd never heard of the JAL or Schoenheit letters/documents.

And the sexual abuse never rose above the rumor stage where/when I was.

[Rocky]

On the forums, certain groups of people are more certainly accepted than others.

I've been here from the start. My understanding is that GSC isn't really about any groups of people being accepted (belonging) other than to validate

one's reasons for leaving TWI madness.

We're not a clique or even a fellowship. It's a place to speak your mind.

Those who rationalize and justify TWI dogmas and practices generally experience something other than validation.

Facebook, OTOH, is a place where people can share as a group of likeminded individuals in a community, by choice.

Do people sometimes have unrealistic expectations here at GSC? Perhaps.

What do those people do about their unrealistic expectations?

Other than self-justification, that is. We ALL self-justify.

[TLC]

My personal belief: A lot of people knew a lot of things, but few people knew "everything." Not that anyone knows everything now, but we have MUCH more of the puzzle pieces in place than we did when we were in.

I knew, for example, that Dubofsky and Lynn were no longer associated with TWI when I got in/out in the late 1980s. But I didn't know why. I knew that there were rumors about weapons training, but I didn't know the truth about them. I knew there were allegations of plagiarism, but I had never seen it documented. I knew that Passing of a Patriarch was a big deal, but I had never read it in its proper historical context (even when I did read it after it was formally published in the early 1990s). And I'd never heard of the JAL or Schoenheit letters/documents.

And the sexual abuse never rose above the rumor stage where/when I was.

Evidently there was much more to be known (or had started to surfaced) in those years. Backing up 10 years left much more in the dark. If there were a lot of people that knew this or that, even the bits and pieces were smaller. And if love covers a multitude of sins, well... maybe more was just covered over.

[Bolshevik]

There's a lot going on here.

I have numerous situations and people that require dealing with Wayfers or Way-Brained or even aggressive Anti-Wayfers. Sometimes things conflict with what I've read on GSC.

So I always have questions. This IS a good place to ask some of those questions.

Reading praise of GSC has helped nothing. And I have had to work around the dominant thinkings of the forums, because I come from a minority group. That takes some effort.

It is what it is.

[skyrider]

My personal belief: A lot of people knew a lot of things, but few people knew "everything." Not that anyone knows everything now, but we have MUCH more of the puzzle pieces in place than we did when we were in.

I knew, for example, that Dubofsky and Lynn were no longer associated with TWI when I got in/out in the late 1980s. But I didn't know why.

<snip>

THAT is one of the great things about GSC......all of the voices,

all of the posters that have added 3,000 vantage points to help

piece together the puzzle.

Women came forward to tell their stories.

Corps exposed the rampant indoctrination.

Staffers gave witness to hq shenanigans.

President Cabinet guy told lots of stuff.

When I learned that LCM was secretly in Toledo.....I posted it.

THAT started a whole series of twi's stealth practices.

There is a reason why WayGB keep their eyes on this place.

There are reasons why Rosalie gets these GS updates.

[Twinky]

There is a reason why WayGB keep their eyes on this place.

There are reasons why Rosalie gets these GS updates.

And how they know that we know nothing fresh. Nobody coming forward to say how things really are now in TWI, no fresh revelations of Rosie's own sins of leadership. Perhaps they think they have plugged all the leaks. Or perhaps the remainder of Wayfers are so stupefied that they can't post to save their lives.

[Rocky]

Perhaps they think they have plugged all the leaks. Or perhaps the remainder of Wayfers are so stupefied that they can't post to save their lives.

Well, I can't speculate as to degrees of control... but I think the research forensic psychologist Maria Konnikova set forth in The Confidence Game: why we fall for it... every time might provide some key insight.

A compelling investigation into the minds, motives, and methods of con artists—and the people who fall for their cons over and over again.

While cheats and swindlers may be a dime a dozen, true conmen—the Bernie Madoffs, the Jim Bakkers [and I will add the Victor Wierwilles and Craig Martindales, and their successors], the Lance Armstrongs—are elegant, outsized personalities, artists of persuasion and exploiters of trust. How do they do it? Why are they successful? And what keeps us falling for it, over and over again? These are the questions that journalist and psychologist Maria Konnikova tackles in her mesmerizing new book.

For some reason, the link to Amazon.com for The Confidence Game doesn't seem to want to take. But if you go to Amazon and search for the book, it's very insightful.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Rocky

[skyrider]

And how they know that we know nothing fresh. Nobody coming forward to say how things really are now in TWI, no fresh revelations of Rosie's own sins of leadership. Perhaps they think they have plugged all the leaks. Or perhaps the remainder of Wayfers are so stupefied that they can't post to save their lives.

Why is twi always in damage control? Why the desperate bunker mentality?

Spies, and lies, and bribes......oh my!

Gee.....it purports all the same DNA as the Pharisees.

They are the ONES with nothing fresh. Their lecture series of indoctrination,

...er, sunday teachings are so scripted, contrived and boring that anyone more than

30 miles away looks for any excuse to NOT attend another one of those.

They are the ONES who proclaim to have the answers to life and abundance.....and they struggle

to find even staffers to fill positions. Especially those low-level, polish floors, scrub the

toilets, food prep, and be excited to get the minimum wage (if that).

They are the ONES who mandate 15-20% of your income for lousy, tedious, condescending drivel

that has been pumped thru the system for 45 years. Screw that! It's a damn scam.

Spies, and surveillance, and monitoring.........is NOT in the Christian format.

[Raf]

Don't forget that a major reason we don't see new perspectives about recent activities is that we haven't allowed new members to sign up for quite some time. Anyone who JUST left would not be able to register unless they explored the forum enough to know how to do it (you do it by contacting me: check out Greasespot 101 forum for details or find me on Facebook: there's a link on every one of my posts).