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skyrider

1989-1998 Timeline: Insanity on Steroids

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15 minutes ago, chockfull said:

As I'm sure most have surmised, I was a young mushroom during this timeframe.  Sitting silently in the dark and being fed, well, you know.

LOL......thanks, I needed a good belly laugh.

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1 minute ago, krys said:

Do you need your glasses checked?

Could be, I'm old enough.  Think I should see everything the same way you do?

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7 minutes ago, TLC said:

Could be, I'm old enough.  Think I should see everything the same way you do?

Not necessarily, but you would do well to take your blinders off and consider that you're not always right.

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1 hour ago, skyrider said:

 

That whole period of time, 1979-86,....when competent, talented men and women were committed to biblical research marked a huge loss of opportunity. 

 

In the Fall of 1979.......twi-hq transitioned from EOB/BRC to -----> OSC Building.  That's when headquarters moved higher in corporation status and mandates.  Out was the brc-lunch meals and nostalgia for the old ways......twi was ramping up some serious speed in 1979.  As way builders continued to complete the office space for that 600 ft-long building  (two football fields long).....cut down the middle with the north side warehousing and the south side office/lobby/dining room space.....departments were moving in and some old-timers lamented that hq just didn't have the same feel to it anymore.

I remember all this vividly.  I was on my interim year in Way Builders.......and hung nearly every damn door on the second floor.

 

 

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Just now, Rocky said:

Not necessarily, but you would do well to take your blinders off and consider that you're not always right.

I ditched that hat long ago, R.  What you frame as "blinders".......I deem as stating my perspective. 

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55 minutes ago, chockfull said:

 

What I remember about the research department is an anecdote told by K31th J@cks0n, the guy who was the Way mag editor for all of those years.  He was working on an edition and called Da Forehead up to talk about GMIR.  Forehead goes zero to screaming in a microsecond.  "Don't ever bring up the word GMIR to me again".  "It's just an ego trip".  Click.  Later he shares just how persecuted he was during da fog years, and how he just can't handle thinking about GMIR.  Apparently it just had too much ego in it.  Funny how struggling over getting more insight on a scripture interpretation was so laced with ego, starkly contrasted with prancing around in a pair of tights, which had absolutely no ego in it at all.

 

Chockfull......sounds like you experienced and observed the same martindale slash-tactics that Charlene describes in her book, Undertow, years before.

The research personnel had "too much ego in it"......OMG, did that guy ever look in the mirror?

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On 12/17/2016 at 11:08 AM, waysider said:

Nope. Not an effort to be PC on my part.  Anyone who knows me in real life knows I don't give a rat's azz about being PC.(Nor did I reference any connection to genetics.)  Through the years I have had many friends and coworkers that are either homosexual or transgender. I can assure you they did not all live the same "lifestyle". Ask yourself the question, "What is the heterosexual lifestyle?" There is no answer. Some live a sports centered lifestyle. Some live a music centered lifestyle. Some live a technology centered lifestyle and on and on and on.

 

If someone is heterosexual, it simply means that their sexual attraction is directed at the opposite sex. If they are homosexual, their sexual attraction is directed toward the same sex. People aren't cured of their attraction. They just learn how to repress and deny it. (Think celibacy.)

 

Don't even throw the old devil possession schtick in the mix. We'll be here forever with that one.

Some great points, Waysider….your post got me to reflect on my views before, during and after TWI…Before TWI I was into the arts (playing in bands and pursuing an education in fine arts) – late 60s early 70s…and I used to have a live and let live philosophy – and perhaps that was the prevailing attitude with most of the folks I hung out with. I’m not a social scene expert but people into the arts were somewhat of a counterculture – we did our own thing and it was beautiful...."It's your thing do what ya wanna do...I can't tell ya who to sock it to..."

I don’t remember a big focus on sexual orientation back then – it was not a prominent issue back then - and besides I had my religious environment – Catholic grammar, high school and college…so you have that whole sexual repression thing going on anyway (…funny how both the Catholic church and TWI have had problems with sexual predators). i think that stayed with me – even today I still think they ought to get all that sex stuff off the big screen and put it back in the home where it belongs – I’m here all week folks.:biglaugh: .....   Seriously, what did I find so interesting about folks I hung out with? it was simply whatever was at the center of their life – be it drumming, painting, writing, philosophizing, and how that is what made them happy…fulfilled or something.

But then I get in TWI and lo and behold – I’m railroaded into getting on whatever bandwagon they had going at the time. Tolerance is NOT one of the manifestations of the TWI spirit. Keep in mind I am the Rob Petrie type – you can get me to do some things – but if it goes against my nature I do it while dragging my feet. Man, I turned off a lot of my friends as I pushed PFAL – with the old sales pitch this will improve your relationship with god or it will help you get better at what you do…some bull$hit like that…fast forward to being in the corps program – I remember some rant by LCM over taking a stand against homosexuality – and it was revolutionary (I say that sarcastically) – it was something along the lines of even being united with other denominations against homosexuals – who cares if they believe in the Trinity, we can work on that later… chuckle, chuckle….TWI does not tolerate differences very well.

So now – a lot of years since I left TWI – I’m back to the live and let live philosophy…and life is simple again…now I’m more concerned about my immediate world than what’s going on “out there”…it took me a long time to realize how hypocritical I was in the Way. I used to put on “Twig face” and was nice to everyone in the Way – yet being such an azzhole to my wife and kids at home. Talk about a relationship that needs improving! We’ve be at it for 40 years now – I’m still crazy about Tonto – and I’m thankful she puts up with me…I work on trying to be less of an azzhole on a regular basis now…I started out small - just while on vacations, mother’s day, our anniversary, her birthday…but now I try to dial down my azzhole-ness throughout the week….it’s just a walk, people.

Edited by T-Bone
to get funky
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Mitigating the damage:  Thanks to all the GSC posters for telling your experiences and thoughts of twi.  Thanks to the book authors of The Cult that Snapped, Losing the Way, and Undertow.  Thanks to all you brave souls who are coming to GSC....and, perhaps, will someday post too.  Thanks to all you parents who have warned your kids about twi.  A special thanks to Pawtucket for keeping the doors open.

Damage Control:  Woe to those who conceal evil.  Woe to the twi-leadership who swoop into states and areas to spread lies and mount a character-assassinate of the reputation of good, solid leaders who chose to exit.  Woe to the hq-staffers who hide behind their desks for a pittance paycheck.  Woe to the splinter groups who feed from the wierwille-mog trough. 

.

Edited by skyrider
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This thrust of this thread is the 1989-1998 Timeline:  Insanity on Steroids.........but, like a movie that fills in flashback information to augment the "martindale-led insanity,"  I felt a need to add some background material.  While some have tried to make martindale "the fall guy" in all of this......I reject that verdict.  The indoctrination and insanity of "doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results"......was wierwille's making.  He cemented pfal as "The Word".....to reach the world with this class, "The Word" (cough, cough).  He blurred the boundaries of genuine research and "re-research the pfal class."  He (wierwille) wanted loyalists in his research team who would not challenge his work, his plagiarism, his private interpretation.  Heck, look at the bizarre loyalist-reaction from Craig, Don, Howard, Geer, Walter, Johnnie, and others when John Schoenheit wrote a thesis paper on "Adultery."  How dare that guy do "new research"....???

And, before moving onto the 1989-1998 period........another cornerstone as to how/why/when one is influenced or afflicted by a cult --- relationships.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Relationships:  Social involvement and relationships are key elements in our lives.  Maybe that's why I was required to take Sociology 101 my first semester at college, right?.....to help me transition into the broader spectrum of society and social structures.  The dynamics and range are deep and wide........yet, every class and program in twi promoted tenets of insulation and isolation.  The trajectory of my life was deeply influenced by several people......friends, co-workers, fiancé, spouse.

No one in a cult is an island.......unless he's at The Beach.

Sorry, it seemed funny when I wrote it. 

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The Decade of Defiance......er, Defeat

March 1989 ---  Martindale defiant that twi will rise again (loyalty letter)

March 1999 ---  Martindale demise as lawsuits loom on horizon (1. Allen, 2. Parker)

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On 12/17/2016 at 7:49 AM, skyrider said:

One man writing a book......would have CHANGED the whole country????   Heck, wierwille spent a lifetime and is an unknown.  Rather than laud his efforts and his Lifelines........many of us, here at Greasespot Café, could easily put together wierwille's WTF-Lines.

And yet another funny line ... too bad it is sadly true!

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March 8, 1989:  When the trustees made that "formal announcement" that they were no longer in agreement with chris geer (and admonitions to "get back to the Word" with geer at helm).....it brought cheers and celebration to many.  From what I remember, it was JP Wierwille himself (working as dept coordinator of shipping/receiving) who coined that day as "Independence Day at the Way."  The pressure valves were releasing a tension and pent-upped stress.......heck, the trustees started being friendly again.

For months, the sunday teachings were gentle, and simple, and caring.  The 1989 rock of ages had the same approach.......slow-down, take time for others, appreciation.  Heck, from the main stage.....the trustees displayed this thank-you message to corps, staff, and followers.  Would this last?  Would it take root?  Would it grow?

Maybe my recollections of this are fuzzy......my wife and I were on the field with two little toddlers just out of diapers.  As young parents, we spent plenty of time watching the first baby steps, new words, love squeezes of pure innocence, and smiles that warmed our hearts.  What was happening at twi was NOT our world......at the moment.  Sure, we were involved and had relatives on twi-payroll......but everything seemed notched back to a slower pace.  It felt good.

We had corps friends in.......1) geer group, 2) lynn group, 3) wait-and-see group, 4) don't-care-anymore group, and GASP, 5) life-is-more-than-just-bible-study group.  Many of our friends were in that young parenting group, as well.  Kids' birthday parties, Chuckie Cheese, fun at the park, swimming, zoo visits, etc......yeah, life.  For a change.

But.......we still had this caring concern to help others.  And, opportunities to serve came knocking.  By the spring of 1991, I was in a better position to "serve."  And, how does one best serve?......by opening your home twice a week to bible fellowship.  More involvement, more opportunities.........

The Game of Incrementalism

One day towering corn was born

 

  • They Thought They Were Free (the Germans 1933-45) by Milton Mayer
  • From the book "They Thought They Were Free (the Germans 1933-45)" by Milton Mayer. One section, chapter 13, discusses how gradually the abuses of the Nazi's worsened, and how this was tolerated by the German people.
  • "Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained, or on occasion, 'regretted,' that unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these 'little measures' that no 'patriotic German' could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field see the corn growing. One day it is over his head."

 

.

 

 

Edited by skyrider
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On 12/16/2016 at 9:08 AM, skyrider said:

(SNIP)...One of the things that I've always contemplated is.......leaving twi is like jumping off a moving train.  You know, at some point, that you don't want to go to that destination [an idolatrous end].  You want off.....but you also have a wife and kids in tow.  Yeah, I'm ready......are you?  Uh oh, the wife is not sure......now what?  You can't voice your plans to jump, because others on the train will tell their supervisors....and confrontation will mount from all sides.  All those inter-personal relationships.....your "friends" and co-workers, your wife's, your children (activities/friends/school)........when do you jump?  Where is there a "soft landing?"  Who will be hurt?  How will life change?

Maybe, I'll write a book entitled, "Just Jump"    

I always read with great interest your posts, Skyrider and think you have a great book on your hands! You’ve got a knack for very organized analysis along with some thought-provoking insight too….for now I’m going to copy a bunch of detailed posts on various threads from you, Don’t Worry, Chockfull and others -  and not to forget all the timeline stuff WordWolf has done and is still putting more together – and save them in a folder on my PC – you know it’s sort of a healing thing…maybe a sense of satisfaction from being able to make sense of what happened in my cult-daze....anyway…

I love your jumping off of a moving train analogy – that is certainly an apt description of the feelings I had. Having so much invested in The Oblivion Express – it’s a wonder any of us got off of it! There’s so many action-movies that have a heart-pounding fight scene on a moving train and I put leaving TWI right up there with the best of them! Embroiled in the tentacles of the TWI mindset…the mental battle of emotions…logic surfacing to engage “ministry-brain”…this thing called “the self” flailing about in desperation to survive…such a confusing internal struggle my wife and I both had – while at the same time we are slowly inching our way closer and closer to some nondescript jump-off point.

You asked “how will life change?”. And that’s a VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION! Before I could actually jump I had to break free from perhaps the strongest tentacle – the fear of leaving “god’s ministry”.  I can’t count how many times a teaching by vp about Judas walking out and it was night (John 13:30) would pop up in my head. It’s been so long I can’t remember vp’s exact words but something like Where you gonna go?...The only alternative to the ministry that taught you the word is oblivion….

Well, the shoe is on the other foot now. That old shyster vp…he swapped the labels – we were on The Oblivion Express…I’m sure glad we jumped off that crazy train.

Edited by T-Bone
forgot to add WordWolf's enormous work on timelines
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19 hours ago, T-Bone said:

I love your jumping off of a moving train analogy – that is certainly an apt description of the feelings I had. Having so much invested in The Oblivion Express – it’s a wonder any of us got off of it!

Yeah......right about that time, March 1989, my wife and I could have easily stepped off that train.  Things were moving quite slowly and the trustees were trying to gain their footing.  Our kids were little and we could have faded away without a confrontation.....or backstabbing slander.

Hindsight is 20/20.......but THAT would have been a good time for us to have escaped the madness that was to come.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Of course, martindale had to "explain" (i.e. rationalize, misdirect) why he, don and howard went along with geer......they, too, had let their guard down and were tricked by the adversary [a-ha.....here comes the spiritualizing].  Why......Geer had some daimon spirits [and lcm listed several].  AND.......cookie lovest3d, don&howard's secretary, saw, LITERALLY SAW, chris geer's face morph into dr. wierwille.  See, those devil spirits will play with you, toy with you.....just to see how much they can get away with.  Gawd.......I can almost still hear martindale's voice saying this.  Ugh.

So, with several weeks of "explanation" to corps and staff......the "Galatian tapes" emerge.  Some of those still-loyal "research types" had submitted some of those Greek words [terasso -- sp?....Galatians, ch. 1 ] to add scriptural depth to how folks get agitated, all stirred up and are bewitched.  See.....it fits !!!  The Galatian tapes are mandatory for the corps and staff.  Next, these tapes are a requirement for all field corps and solid advanced class grads.  Rename them:  Leadership Tapes [sounds much more inclusive.....and seductive, to those who deem themselves as "leaders"].  Schedule weekend in your areas.....take attendance, report back. 

Martindale was building back his confidence.  See....he was adept at teaching on devil spirits. 

  1. Lcm had danced in The Mog-in-Tights
  2. He had taught on "those born of the wrong seed"
  3. He had assisted in plenty of adv classes
  4. He was #2 prez.....and established how spirits infiltrate

Naturally...........the next incremental step was to schedule martindale's NEW (bling, bling) advanced class at the Indiana Campus [1992/93].  Stack the deck.....er, support in his favor:  1) Wayne C. was there for "big" support, 2) in-rez corps to provide labor and zeal, 3) in-house, on campus.....those who came must support twi, those who stayed away caused suspicion, 4)  Rah, rah......let's build the ministry again.

Small incremental steps..........

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Rebuild Twi:  Each sts/corps teaching was geared towards moving on.  Shake the dust from your feet and walk.  Stop dwelling on the past.  Besides, the smaller numbers seemed like a welcomed change from 2,800 at corps week, or 18,000 - 24,000 at roa.  The machinery was not in place to monitor the followers........yet.

QuestionsI wonder if this smaller/closer "feel" is what fueled growth?

  • When wierwille's numbers were small......did that enable loyalty and commitment to grow [1968-1974]..??
  • When martindale got knocked back on his heels......did these small numbers require him to "be nice?"
  • When rivenbark needed to rebuild after lcm's ousting......was this a "kindler and gentler" beginning?
  • When JYDL takes the reins next month........will he start out "nice, thankful and humble?"
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53 minutes ago, skyrider said:

Rebuild Twi:  Each sts/corps teaching was geared towards moving on.  Shake the dust from your feet and walk.  Stop dwelling on the past.  Besides, the smaller numbers seemed like a welcomed change from 2,800 at corps week, or 18,000 - 24,000 at roa.  The machinery was not in place to monitor the followers........yet.

QuestionsI wonder if this smaller/closer "feel" is what fueled growth?

  • When wierwille's numbers were small......did that enable loyalty and commitment to grow [1968-1974]..??
  • When martindale got knocked back on his heels......did these small numbers require him to "be nice?"
  • When rivenbark needed to rebuild after lcm's ousting......was this a "kindler and gentler" beginning?
  • When JYDL takes the reins next month........will he start out "nice, thankful and humble?"

I would think even an up-and-coming tyrant must go through a courtship phase with the minions

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Note:   I welcome any input, correction or feedback to this timeline.  Some of you posters....ie Chockfull, Krys, others....might remember more details than me.  Perhaps, few care.....but thought it would be good to have a thread dedicated to my perspective during this time and as a limb coordinator from Aug 1992 - Aug 1998.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Time to SellObviously, with the massive exodus of 1987-1989......all of twi's assets were in flux.  Why have huge limb homes?  Or an Emporia Campus?  What about the Indiana Campus?  Years later......why even have a motorcoach for twi-prez?

  • Indiana Limb Home......sold around the end of 1990 (former limb coordinator went to geer camp)
  • Other limb homes (??)......Ohio or NC (I can't remember)
  • Emporia Campus..........sold around July 1993 (??).  Had to reduce selling price.
  • Rome City Campus.......sold around 1996, or thereabouts
  • President's Motorcoach......not sure when sold, but why have a traveling sex-motel room for a predator?
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Skyrider!

Your posts are terrific! Even after all these years, I did not realize you were there until 1998! Your detailed info from the perspective of being a Limb guy during the Okie Dope's Reign of Terror is unique. Therefore, keep em coming! Great documentation from firsthand experience. Accurate, documentable, FACTS about TWIt throughout its various iterations is THE single greatest weapon in their battle to avoid the throes of their inevitable death. The recent posts by you, Chockful, Shortfuse, Krys, Penworks, and many other greasespotters of late, have been the best info on TWIt since the 2007-2010 period IMO. That means tangible damage is being done to the cult of Crotchaven as it prepares to go through the optics of another mantle toss! Some things seem to just refuse to change. 

Thanks Skyrider for ALL the many hours you have devoted to the mission of this website. Almost 5000 posts! You have helped many brother. The Boss is happy I'm sure. Fuggedabouddit!

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These time line posts have been really insightful for me in understanding twi history with what I witnessed during my short run at hq. I've been quietly lurking but will add a few points post lcm, 2000 to 2008 soon. Thanks chockful, skyrider, et al.

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27 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Skyrider!

Your posts are terrific! Even after all these years, I did not realize you were there until 1998! Your detailed info from the perspective of being a Limb guy during the Okie Dope's Reign of Terror is unique. Therefore, keep em coming! Great documentation from firsthand experience. Accurate, documentable, FACTS about TWIt throughout its various iterations is THE single greatest weapon in their battle to avoid the throes of their inevitable death. The recent posts by you, Chockful, Shortfuse, Krys, Penworks, and many other greasespotters of late, have been the best info on TWIt since the 2007-2010 period IMO. That means tangible damage is being done to the cult of Crotchaven as it prepares to go through the optics of another mantle toss! Some things seem to just refuse to change. 

Thanks Skyrider for ALL the many hours you have devoted to the mission of this website. Almost 5000 posts! You have helped many brother. The Boss is happy I'm sure. Fuggedabouddit!

Thanks DWBH......I appreciate your kind words.

When I started posting on Waydale in 1999......posting as FreshAir77, and later FreshAir99.....another 2,200 posts or so. 

I was using a crap-computer.  Didn't have much money back then and nearly computer-illiterate.  Thanks twi......ppfffffttt.

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In the 90s, as a child and teenager, I was forced to listen to hour after hour of LCM screaming via STS tapes.  Misbehave?  Then you need more of LCMs logic.  It will help you develop the right attitude to start out in life.  

Younger siblings may have missed this time, and therefore they did not develop to the level of LCM's mentality.

I've previously asked a number of wayfer families about this pattern.  I believe it is a common phenomenon.

Changes in corporate policy help divide groups of people, and keep TWI blameless in old-wineskins fashion.  Timelines might help adjust the blame game from the individual back onto TWI.

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1 hour ago, Bolshevik said:

Changes in corporate policy help divide groups of people, and keep TWI blameless in old-wineskins fashion.  Timelines might help adjust the blame game from the individual back onto TWI.

Good point, Bolshevik........thanks.

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LCM Screaming:  Martindale is most noted, far and wide, by his screaming tirades.  Whether it was corps night, sunday teachings, or even the wap-class......the man came across as "unhinged."  Besides the sex predation, screaming into the microphone was his legacy.  He would lose control and rail on a subject for 20 minutes that was irritating him......he claimed it was "spiritual anger."

But his scream-fests could be sub-divided:

  1. 1989-1992......lcm railed against geer, lynn, cop-outs, those who'd left
  2. 1993------>......lcm began railing at those IN twi, corps, staff, those who wouldn't increase commitment

It seems to me that the yelling and railing against "the homo infiltration" began, in earnest, around January 1994.  The months that followed were a constant barrage of accusations and public labeling so-and-so in corps & staff meetings.  Month after month, martindale fumed.......and then, wrote that July 1994 "homo purge letter."

So.......he yelled and yelled some more.  And,.......following the timeline, A WHOLE YEAR LATER, the 1995 rock of ages, "the homos had infiltrated the roa."  Gawd.....where is that elusive manifestation "discerning of spirits" to keep them from ever getting near martindale in the first place?  Or, why couldn't martindale (or wierwille) EVER CAST ONE OUT?  Where was this prevailing, spiritual power that these mogs wielded?

And......connecting the dots, that is why I never believed that the 1995 roa had homo-spirits running everywhere.  Nor did I believe that it was the reason why martindale cancelled any future rock of ages.  The dead give-away was that first September 1995 corps night.......when martindale spent nearly two hours detailing the financial responsibilities, limits,  policies, etc regarding full-time way corps.  Finances, finances, finances......and only about ten minutes of the homo/roa ordeal.

Martindale's tirades on those corps nights was epic..........

.

Edited by skyrider
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