quote:They may be phasing out WAP, just very slowly, and eventually come back to PFAL.
Yeah Mike, and it's all becasue Rosie has been reading your posts here at GS had a change of heart. And before you know it the BOD will be calling you to head up their new Research Department - Or maybe they'll fire Harve or Jean and give you a seat on the BOD.
I think I feel the earth shaking !
Mike, if I were you, I'd stay real close to the phone.
During my year in Rome City, one of the classes on leading a Twig proposed the question: What if a copped out leader came to your Twig?
Well, a hush came over the room. No one seemed to know what they would do, or at least, they didn't want to venture a guess. But it seemed obvious to me. "I would have no problem with them being in my meeting, just like any other person wanting to attend," I said. "But they would not be put in a position of authority." In other words, it would be my meeting, and they would need to show their ability and readiness to humbly resume responsibility before I would give them any.
At first I thought that might be the case. However what I really saw was quite a few folks trying to love a do good within an organization whose leadership was corrupt at the core.
I never saw any abundant "power". But I heard a lot of rumors about it, many of which were embelishments or downright fabrications.
Good old days? You mean, when veepee saw the snow on the gaspumps?...or maybe you're talking about all those warm and wonderful evenings when some guy with a green nametag would brow beat us with his arrogant and condescending mouth? Pfal?...hogwash.
As far as their bookstore goes...I wouldn't cross the street for any of that fishwrapping.
I'm also told that TWI is getting back to studying and teaching VPW's books and teachings. They are not trying to bring back the good ol' days, but they are trying to follow the foundational teaching he did and then build on that.
I haven't heard a STS or been to a fellowship in many years so I don't know to what extent this is being carried out in practice.
"I'm also told that TWI is getting back to studying and teaching VPW's books and teachings. They are not trying to bring back the good ol' days, but they are trying to follow the foundational teaching he did and then build on that."
RoyalG,
They were doing this back in 1999 and 2000 before the s**t hit the fan with LCM, when I was still in. I didn't buy it then and I wouldn't buy it now.
IF they are still or once again working through VPW's stuff my bet is it has more to do with trying to persuade people to stay or come back so they can get more cash, than it has to do with anything truly loving or spiritual.
What else do they have? LCM wrote one book and put together a couple of crappy classes. They can't keep showing it because it's too awkward to have their deposed ex-chieftan being shown all the time. When I finally wised up (little over a year ago), the WAP class was dead. Our state could barely fill one class with seven new students every six months. And most of those were kids of old grads.
To officially bring back PFAL, TWI would have to eat crow. It would be an admission of being wrong about "old wineskins". TWI/BOD will never admit that they were wrong about anything.
Hi Royal! Good to see you again. How is Orlando? We have to get together again one of these days. Where do you go for fireworks there?
I agree with Just Thinking that WAP is all but dead. It just does not work and does not bless in my opinion.
Furthermore I believe that PFAL is dead. It is old, moldy, teachings that we have heard over and over again and again. It is getting to be boring to wayfers and ex wayfers alike. New people are tapped into the Internet making it all but impossible to get new recruits. They see the Teachers's tarnished reputation and that of TWI in its current state. Nothing new. No power of God in action. No fun.
The material had its shining moments at a certain place and time but even VPW in a meeting I was in once said it has to be replaced with something more current and someone needs to re-teach the class in todays terms. That was in 1978.
Royal, I think they have been forced to allow people to order materials for years. I remember hearing from a leader one time that a cop out minister ordered something like 2 dozen copies of PFAL book. He said TWI was required to comply but he said what they do is "lose the order" or make it difficult if not impossible to actually get the material." This was in pre- lawsuit days. At this time I would imagine they will send you anything they are selling with no funny business like they used to do.
Love to your family.
John R in Tampa
PS - GOEY, your website is taking shape. I hope it continues to develop. :D-->
To officially bring back PFAL, TWI would have to eat crow. It would be an admission of being wrong about "old wineskins". TWI/BOD will never admit that they were wrong about anything.
Who said they'd ADMIT anything?
They'd just make up some bs excuse like they ALWAYS do that makes it look like
They'd just make up some bs excuse like they ALWAYS do that makes it look like
they meant this all along....
No excuse will be needed. It will become "the present truth". The Father will reveal to whoever is spiritually in-charge at HQ's that it's now time to go back to basics, to PFAL, to the "original will of God" - or some other BS like that. Hey - I was in for a long time - I can almost hear it! Ugh.
The fundamental problem is that twi was a "personality cult". When Vic took up permanent residence under the fountain of endless misery, he left lcm in charge. His selection of lcm was based on his "firey personality"...again, the personality cult.
It matters not whether they use lcm's sophmoric attempt at biblical interpretation or go back to veepee's hybrid collection of other people's work...there's no "personality" to fill the void. Nobody to lather up the crowd or to cry when the "wow kids" return to the rock...In short, nobody to follow. It will take more than a recycled video, featuring a guy with a skinny tie, to pump life into that headless snake.
Yes personality - and Rosalie hasn't got what it takes.
I remember VPW talking about "the fading echoes of a few great names" (Billy Graham, Oral Roberts etc).
He just didn't appreciate how much of it was down to him personally - the sincerity (cough) the air of conviction, the apprearance of mastery of his material.
But it would all look and sound so dated now, people are more sophisticated and analytical and know what has happened since. They also know that there are counter arguments to many of his assumptions.
It would be like trying to reanimate a corpse using embalming fluid and touch up paint.
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Goey
Posted by Mike:
Yeah Mike, and it's all becasue Rosie has been reading your posts here at GS had a change of heart. And before you know it the BOD will be calling you to head up their new Research Department - Or maybe they'll fire Harve or Jean and give you a seat on the BOD.
I think I feel the earth shaking !
Mike, if I were you, I'd stay real close to the phone.
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Mike
Goey,
You overlooked a much better scenario, that they ADD me to the BOD.
:D-->
That way I could stand up for you's guys there in a board meeting
the same way I stand up for the BOD here.
;)-->
I see us ALL as family, displaced.
:(-->
But it's only temporary!
:)-->
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Goey
TWI's BOD is not part of my "family" - displaced or otherwise.
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Mike
Goey,
Didn't you ever see the good old days,
where the love and power worked abundantly?
-->
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oldiesman
Mike, if you and I can get on the BOD, we'd turn things around. How about putting all the PFAL segments on the net?
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excathedra
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shazdancer
Mike,
During my year in Rome City, one of the classes on leading a Twig proposed the question: What if a copped out leader came to your Twig?
Well, a hush came over the room. No one seemed to know what they would do, or at least, they didn't want to venture a guess. But it seemed obvious to me. "I would have no problem with them being in my meeting, just like any other person wanting to attend," I said. "But they would not be put in a position of authority." In other words, it would be my meeting, and they would need to show their ability and readiness to humbly resume responsibility before I would give them any.
I still feel the same way.
Shaz
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Goey
At first I thought that might be the case. However what I really saw was quite a few folks trying to love a do good within an organization whose leadership was corrupt at the core.
I never saw any abundant "power". But I heard a lot of rumors about it, many of which were embelishments or downright fabrications.
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Trefor Heywood
TWI change for the better?
You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and if the foundations are unsound no amount of rebuilding the fabric will improve it.
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pawtucket
Just for the record, I am working in conjunction with Oakspear. I take the sun down each evening.
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Goey
Yeah, y'all could emulate VPW and get things right back to the "good old days". - Oh Goody!
Better get your orders in for your motorcoaches early.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Good old days? You mean, when veepee saw the snow on the gaspumps?...or maybe you're talking about all those warm and wonderful evenings when some guy with a green nametag would brow beat us with his arrogant and condescending mouth? Pfal?...hogwash.
As far as their bookstore goes...I wouldn't cross the street for any of that fishwrapping.
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Royal Gorge
I'm also told that TWI is getting back to studying and teaching VPW's books and teachings. They are not trying to bring back the good ol' days, but they are trying to follow the foundational teaching he did and then build on that.
I haven't heard a STS or been to a fellowship in many years so I don't know to what extent this is being carried out in practice.
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johniam
Is 'Born again to serve' going to be available???
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Abigail
"I'm also told that TWI is getting back to studying and teaching VPW's books and teachings. They are not trying to bring back the good ol' days, but they are trying to follow the foundational teaching he did and then build on that."
RoyalG,
They were doing this back in 1999 and 2000 before the s**t hit the fan with LCM, when I was still in. I didn't buy it then and I wouldn't buy it now.
IF they are still or once again working through VPW's stuff my bet is it has more to do with trying to persuade people to stay or come back so they can get more cash, than it has to do with anything truly loving or spiritual.
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JustThinking
Abigail,
What else do they have? LCM wrote one book and put together a couple of crappy classes. They can't keep showing it because it's too awkward to have their deposed ex-chieftan being shown all the time. When I finally wised up (little over a year ago), the WAP class was dead. Our state could barely fill one class with seven new students every six months. And most of those were kids of old grads.
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Goey
To officially bring back PFAL, TWI would have to eat crow. It would be an admission of being wrong about "old wineskins". TWI/BOD will never admit that they were wrong about anything.
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igotout
Hi Royal! Good to see you again. How is Orlando? We have to get together again one of these days. Where do you go for fireworks there?
I agree with Just Thinking that WAP is all but dead. It just does not work and does not bless in my opinion.
Furthermore I believe that PFAL is dead. It is old, moldy, teachings that we have heard over and over again and again. It is getting to be boring to wayfers and ex wayfers alike. New people are tapped into the Internet making it all but impossible to get new recruits. They see the Teachers's tarnished reputation and that of TWI in its current state. Nothing new. No power of God in action. No fun.
The material had its shining moments at a certain place and time but even VPW in a meeting I was in once said it has to be replaced with something more current and someone needs to re-teach the class in todays terms. That was in 1978.
Royal, I think they have been forced to allow people to order materials for years. I remember hearing from a leader one time that a cop out minister ordered something like 2 dozen copies of PFAL book. He said TWI was required to comply but he said what they do is "lose the order" or make it difficult if not impossible to actually get the material." This was in pre- lawsuit days. At this time I would imagine they will send you anything they are selling with no funny business like they used to do.
Love to your family.
John R in Tampa
PS - GOEY, your website is taking shape. I hope it continues to develop.
:D-->
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WordWolf
Who said they'd ADMIT anything?
They'd just make up some bs excuse like they ALWAYS do that makes it look like
they meant this all along....
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Hope R.
No excuse will be needed. It will become "the present truth". The Father will reveal to whoever is spiritually in-charge at HQ's that it's now time to go back to basics, to PFAL, to the "original will of God" - or some other BS like that. Hey - I was in for a long time - I can almost hear it! Ugh.
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GrouchoMarxJr
The fundamental problem is that twi was a "personality cult". When Vic took up permanent residence under the fountain of endless misery, he left lcm in charge. His selection of lcm was based on his "firey personality"...again, the personality cult.
It matters not whether they use lcm's sophmoric attempt at biblical interpretation or go back to veepee's hybrid collection of other people's work...there's no "personality" to fill the void. Nobody to lather up the crowd or to cry when the "wow kids" return to the rock...In short, nobody to follow. It will take more than a recycled video, featuring a guy with a skinny tie, to pump life into that headless snake.
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Trefor Heywood
Yes personality - and Rosalie hasn't got what it takes.
I remember VPW talking about "the fading echoes of a few great names" (Billy Graham, Oral Roberts etc).
He just didn't appreciate how much of it was down to him personally - the sincerity (cough) the air of conviction, the apprearance of mastery of his material.
But it would all look and sound so dated now, people are more sophisticated and analytical and know what has happened since. They also know that there are counter arguments to many of his assumptions.
It would be like trying to reanimate a corpse using embalming fluid and touch up paint.
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Weout1200
The bookstore open to the public...
Oh, I am sooo there.
:P-->
The last resort of the desperate for cash, or the result of some legal action (they didn't do it voluntarly).
But, as some have stated, why would anyone with two functioning brain cells buy any of their mind-numbing, plageristic, egotistic crap anyway?
Ebay fodder? Landfill? Emergency toilet paper?
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GarthP2000
... government approved toxic waste?
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