Everyone I got into that pathetic little scam is still there, I'm sad to say. In fact, the last I heard of any of them they were more zombified than ever and climbing the ladder. Imagine the view...
I was one in a long line of folks who left in the mid to late 90's. Long before leaving tho I had informal after the meeting talks with folks who seemed to be scratching their heads at Martindales rantings and wondering if he was alright in the upper stooory. Glad to say that everyone of them saw through the baloney and left :D-->
My departure was about as significant as a drop of water evaporating from the Dead Sea. The drop of water departed, but the sea did not realize it, since it was dead.
Just about everyone I had hooked into the Way Irrational was gone before I left. Maybe they were the smart ones? No notes, no drama. Just stopped showing up. They must have figured it out by now. There were a couple of calls but apparently they got the hint.
Although, and this made me chuckle. 6 months after my last time there, someone called and asked me if I had sent my money in for the facilities fee for a branch meeting! :-) Yeah, they keep their people FULLY informed.
V1nce F pretty much looked to Gartmore for direction at the time,
and he was making a LOT more sense that year than loyboy was.
So, the state mostly left together as a cohesive unit,
at least 80% of the state.
I think it was more like 95%. I think had Vince stood with Craig, those folks would have hung around longer. But in those days, it was like the pot calling the kettle black. Vince was calling us Carnal Thinkers for "standing with" Craig, but look at all those folks who "stood with" Vince and Geer.
Wordwolf, if that doesn't apply to you, more power to you. Some folks did leave independently on their own, instead of pointing one massive finger.
When my husband wouldn`t write his loyalty letter we were branded as trouble makers ....We still attended fellowship, but most folks were leary of us....I was so eager to appear normal and and not out in left field ....eager to prove that I wasn`t possessed or evil....that I never said anything depreciating about the ministry....matter of fact, I didn`t for the first couple of years of posting on these boards....for fear of confirming everyones suspiscions.
It embarasses me to say that I attended fellowship right up untill the twig moved... (and refused to reveal the new location to us) I didn`t take anyone with me.
And if more of those 95% had stood with Craig a bit longer it would have accomplished what? Prolonged the misery of attempting to support a pseudo christian ministry?
Good for you NY ers (and anyone) not continuing to supply the blood and nutrients to that massive bloated malignant tumor that was twi.
I think tens of thousands of us have given that lunatic and those who fascilitated his reign of evil *one big collective finger* by no longer accepting the abuse and daring to stand up to the mog....in spite of the promised consequences of disobediance.
It was never good enough for me that these folks left for no other reason than for following Vince F. Like the pot calling the kettle black, they are guilty themselves of practicing "carnality", the same thing they were accusing us of. The blind leading the blind. ...
oops I said this twice, hope you rational folks understand where I'm coming from ...
I was in Manhattan. I remember all the corps went with VF. I think I was the only one who didn't. VF was following CG. I could not in good conscience follow any of them - those left in NYC became very legalistic - CG's another story though. Eventually a couple of other corps people came and talked to me after about a year of isolation from TWI. I think there were only three of us women who just washed our hands of the whole thing.
Sunesis, I don't know who you are and I don't think we've ever met, but if you care to reveal your identity, which I will keep totally confidential, my email is oldiesmanpics@aol.com or ppolizotto@aol.com.
Actually my departure from TWI didn't make all that big a ripple. By then TWI was relieved to see me go, one less "problem child" to deal with. They figured with my health issues I'd be dead in a year anyway.
Now, I'm sure they wish that last ""PRophecy"" had come true LOL
I was in Mass. in 87 when a whole bunch of us left. When we did a lot of my jr. corps friends were told that my mother and I were posessed. I got letters telling me that I would no longer have these friends.
We were just kids and I am cool with alot of these people now. The only thing worse than being brain washed is being a brain washed teen ager.
Not much of a splash. In fact it was Oct 5 of 1994, 10 years ago tomorrow that we left. But they pretty much wanted people to leave by then. Hopefully we've all made a "splash" by the impact GSC has had.
Ileft a tiny ripple in the dead sea (dmiller, you have a great turn of phrase)- but was huge to me, because I spoke to all I'd pressured into pfal and etc and assorted classes...most of them had no hard feelings, but I felt as if I'd showered them with dirt.
ps-by the way, and altho this may require a new topic-what happen w/ cgeer & co? or direct me to the info that spans pages, but I have not run across yet.
I don't think I left a splash at all. I just sent emails telling leaders I would not be attending any ministry functions or fellowships. I got an email from the BC asking me why and telling me how sad it was. I didn't let the fake sympathy get to me. I don't think they expected it, but I don't think they miss me. I sure don't miss them, or at least most of them.....
quote: It was never good enough for me that these folks left for no other reason than for following Vince F. Like the pot calling the kettle black, they are guilty themselves of practicing "carnality", the same thing they were accusing us of. The blind leading the blind. ...
Hmm. Ok. --> I left because I saw the edifice crumbling. What was so "concrete" in my life, had no re-bar re-enforcing it, there-fore more susceptible to damage by forces prevailing against it. :)-->
I followed no one person, when I got out. I saw error, confusion, and power play happening, and decided I did not want to be a part of that game anymore. I "did the drill" from the mid 70's, to the mid 80's, and when POP started circulating, I evaporated from the Dead Sea.
Since then, I have been I contact with "splinter groups", but they were not the reason I left. imo -- The splinter groups (if one wishes to call them such) offer more in biblical research, than docvic ever did, but again --- that is an imo.
I'm not a pot that calls the kettle black. Perhaps I am like (others here), who are burning with indignation, and can look up from the fire and see the color of the kettle, and can call it for what it is.
V1nce F pretty much looked to Gartmore for direction at the time,
and he was making a LOT more sense that year than loyboy was.
So, the state mostly left together as a cohesive unit,
at least 80% of the state.
I think it was more like 95%. I think had Vince stood with Craig, those folks would have hung around longer. But in those days, it was like the pot calling the kettle black. Vince was calling us Carnal Thinkers for "standing with" Craig, but look at all those folks who "stood with" Vince and Geer.
Wordwolf, if that doesn't apply to you, more power to you. Some folks did leave independently on their own, instead of pointing one massive finger.
:)-->
Forgot the letter twi sent out?
"Although we don't know most of them, we're announcing that all
the local leaders you've had several years to form your own
opinions on are actually evil and selfish, and your opinion of
them doesn't count. You are not to stay in contact with your
branch, territory or limb coordinators."
That was a pretty strong indicator right there that the bosses
at hq had no idea what they were talking about.
They DEMANDED an oath of allegiance.
The other guys said it was ungodly, and cited verses.
How political did that have to be? How subtle and clever?
It was never good enough for me that these folks left for no other reason than for following Vince F. Like the pot calling the kettle black, they are guilty themselves of practicing "carnality", the same thing they were accusing us of. The blind leading the blind. ...
oops I said this twice, hope you rational folks understand where I'm coming from ...
:)-->
Yes-you're justifying yourself by making villains out of the
other guy, claiming you read his mind and know the reasons the
average NY'er left. BTW, I didn't hear any of that back then....
"Although we don't know most of them, we're announcing that all the local leaders you've had several years to form your own opinions on are actually evil and selfish, and your opinion of them doesn't count. You are not to stay in contact with your branch, territory or limb coordinators."
Wordwolf, I don't know the letter you're referring to. Can I have a copy?
quote: Yes-you're justifying yourself by making villains out of the other guy, claiming you read his mind and know the reasons the average NY'er left. BTW, I didn't hear any of that back then....
My opinion about the pot calling the kettle black is for the people who were accusing us of being Carnal Thinkers -- chiefly, Vince F. There were others too. But I do believe that most folks (average believers) who left were following their local leadership without examining the other side of the coin and confronting the BOT with the apprehensions. For instance, how many folks actually called headquarters to make an attempt to speak to one of the trustees? Very few. I happen to know for a fact that Don Wierwille was taking phone calls from anyone who would listen, back in those days. I personally asked my twig coordinators to do that, call Don and voice their concerns to him, but they refused. I eventually left their twig, because they couldn't give a fig about what I thought.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
13
11
6
5
Popular Days
Oct 8
20
Oct 4
17
Oct 5
11
Oct 6
6
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 13 posts
oldiesman 11 posts
TheSongRemainsTheSame 6 posts
WordWolf 5 posts
Popular Days
Oct 8 2004
20 posts
Oct 4 2004
17 posts
Oct 5 2004
11 posts
Oct 6 2004
6 posts
Jason P
I think someone may have noticed I'm gone by now.
Everyone I got into that pathetic little scam is still there, I'm sad to say. In fact, the last I heard of any of them they were more zombified than ever and climbing the ladder. Imagine the view...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
herbiejuan
I was one in a long line of folks who left in the mid to late 90's. Long before leaving tho I had informal after the meeting talks with folks who seemed to be scratching their heads at Martindales rantings and wondering if he was alright in the upper stooory. Glad to say that everyone of them saw through the baloney and left
:D-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Most of New York State left in 1989.
V1nce F pretty much looked to Gartmore for direction at the time,
and he was making a LOT more sense that year than loyboy was.
So, the state mostly left together as a cohesive unit,
at least 80% of the state.
Mind you,
I had poked around hq on my own, and had come to the independent
conclusion that even if I would be operating independently
of everyone else, I had to leave then- hq just plain got really
weird and blatantly "off The Word".
So,
nobody noticed I left, since I was one of thousands who walked
at the time. That year, I stayed with the state-unit.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
My departure was about as significant as a drop of water evaporating from the Dead Sea. The drop of water departed, but the sea did not realize it, since it was dead.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JustThinking
dm,
Well said.
Just about everyone I had hooked into the Way Irrational was gone before I left. Maybe they were the smart ones? No notes, no drama. Just stopped showing up. They must have figured it out by now. There were a couple of calls but apparently they got the hint.
Although, and this made me chuckle. 6 months after my last time there, someone called and asked me if I had sent my money in for the facilities fee for a branch meeting! :-) Yeah, they keep their people FULLY informed.
JT
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
I never left twi -- they left me.
:)-->
I think it was more like 95%. I think had Vince stood with Craig, those folks would have hung around longer. But in those days, it was like the pot calling the kettle black. Vince was calling us Carnal Thinkers for "standing with" Craig, but look at all those folks who "stood with" Vince and Geer.Wordwolf, if that doesn't apply to you, more power to you. Some folks did leave independently on their own, instead of pointing one massive finger.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
When my husband wouldn`t write his loyalty letter we were branded as trouble makers ....We still attended fellowship, but most folks were leary of us....I was so eager to appear normal and and not out in left field ....eager to prove that I wasn`t possessed or evil....that I never said anything depreciating about the ministry....matter of fact, I didn`t for the first couple of years of posting on these boards....for fear of confirming everyones suspiscions.
It embarasses me to say that I attended fellowship right up untill the twig moved... (and refused to reveal the new location to us) I didn`t take anyone with me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
And if more of those 95% had stood with Craig a bit longer it would have accomplished what? Prolonged the misery of attempting to support a pseudo christian ministry?
Good for you NY ers (and anyone) not continuing to supply the blood and nutrients to that massive bloated malignant tumor that was twi.
I think tens of thousands of us have given that lunatic and those who fascilitated his reign of evil *one big collective finger* by no longer accepting the abuse and daring to stand up to the mog....in spite of the promised consequences of disobediance.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
It was never good enough for me that these folks left for no other reason than for following Vince F. Like the pot calling the kettle black, they are guilty themselves of practicing "carnality", the same thing they were accusing us of. The blind leading the blind. ...
oops I said this twice, hope you rational folks understand where I'm coming from ...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
So you think that there would have been what profit to these folks staying?
It would have made what difference in the long run of the demise of twi if they had?
Are you certain that is wasn`t God`s plan in action to remove these folks away from a false minister?
In other words...do you think that folks from new york staying would have made any difference at all in the outcome of this ministry?
Your staying with the ministry a little longer than the other new yorkers accomplished what?
Are you saying that if we had stayed and supported Craig that everything would have turned out all right?
How bout some clarification for the rest of us irrational folks eh?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sunesis
Oldies and Wordwolf, we probably know each other.
I was in Manhattan. I remember all the corps went with VF. I think I was the only one who didn't. VF was following CG. I could not in good conscience follow any of them - those left in NYC became very legalistic - CG's another story though. Eventually a couple of other corps people came and talked to me after about a year of isolation from TWI. I think there were only three of us women who just washed our hands of the whole thing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Sunesis, I don't know who you are and I don't think we've ever met, but if you care to reveal your identity, which I will keep totally confidential, my email is oldiesmanpics@aol.com or ppolizotto@aol.com.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
Actually my departure from TWI didn't make all that big a ripple. By then TWI was relieved to see me go, one less "problem child" to deal with. They figured with my health issues I'd be dead in a year anyway.
Now, I'm sure they wish that last ""PRophecy"" had come true LOL
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Georgio Jessio
I was in Mass. in 87 when a whole bunch of us left. When we did a lot of my jr. corps friends were told that my mother and I were posessed. I got letters telling me that I would no longer have these friends.
We were just kids and I am cool with alot of these people now. The only thing worse than being brain washed is being a brain washed teen ager.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
papajohn
small splash, it was a little pond
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Not much of a splash. In fact it was Oct 5 of 1994, 10 years ago tomorrow that we left. But they pretty much wanted people to leave by then. Hopefully we've all made a "splash" by the impact GSC has had.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
andreatheflorist
Ileft a tiny ripple in the dead sea (dmiller, you have a great turn of phrase)- but was huge to me, because I spoke to all I'd pressured into pfal and etc and assorted classes...most of them had no hard feelings, but I felt as if I'd showered them with dirt.
ps-by the way, and altho this may require a new topic-what happen w/ cgeer & co? or direct me to the info that spans pages, but I have not run across yet.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nottawayfer
I don't think I left a splash at all. I just sent emails telling leaders I would not be attending any ministry functions or fellowships. I got an email from the BC asking me why and telling me how sad it was. I didn't let the fake sympathy get to me. I don't think they expected it, but I don't think they miss me. I sure don't miss them, or at least most of them.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
If you know WordWolf, there's a pretty durned good chance you know me.
Johnyouare:
Happy anniversary! 10 Years of Freedom! What are you going to do next?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Hmm. Ok.
--> I left because I saw the edifice crumbling. What was so "concrete" in my life, had no re-bar re-enforcing it, there-fore more susceptible to damage by forces prevailing against it. 
:)-->
I followed no one person, when I got out. I saw error, confusion, and power play happening, and decided I did not want to be a part of that game anymore. I "did the drill" from the mid 70's, to the mid 80's, and when POP started circulating, I evaporated from the Dead Sea.
Since then, I have been I contact with "splinter groups", but they were not the reason I left. imo -- The splinter groups (if one wishes to call them such) offer more in biblical research, than docvic ever did, but again --- that is an imo.
I'm not a pot that calls the kettle black. Perhaps I am like (others here), who are burning with indignation, and can look up from the fire and see the color of the kettle, and can call it for what it is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Forgot the letter twi sent out?
"Although we don't know most of them, we're announcing that all
the local leaders you've had several years to form your own
opinions on are actually evil and selfish, and your opinion of
them doesn't count. You are not to stay in contact with your
branch, territory or limb coordinators."
That was a pretty strong indicator right there that the bosses
at hq had no idea what they were talking about.
They DEMANDED an oath of allegiance.
The other guys said it was ungodly, and cited verses.
How political did that have to be? How subtle and clever?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Yes-you're justifying yourself by making villains out of the
other guy, claiming you read his mind and know the reasons the
average NY'er left. BTW, I didn't hear any of that back then....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
If Sunesis didn't join TWBF/VP/CG in 89/90,
chances are we didn't meet. I wasn't into
Manhattan meetings often until about that time.
We might have met, we might not.
If I described how I dressed back then, and
Sunesis recognized me from that, then we DID
meet, maybe. Raf showed up at Manhattan
meetings less frequently than I did.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.