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Who is Rosalie Fox Rivenbark?


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themex, I think I recall a discussion about that previously and no, no one came forth to say that they had heard her SIT. Furthermore, there weren't even any second-hand witnesses of her SIT-ting.

But, why do you ask? ;)

Bacause She may be a seed of the :evildenk:

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Well, at least you can say she's good at multi-tasking.

Kevlar, don't ever leave us. :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

We used to joke about whether anyone ever heard RFR speak in tongues because we weren't convinced anyone like her could really be "one of us."

The fact remains that she's a legalistic, deceitful manipulator, SIT or not.

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posted by Mr. Hammorabi

Must've been back in the good old days when they had somebody in "reflections" that could really do some wonders, heh heh.

One of the main things why RR lookes the way she does is that they don't have anyone in waybuilders that knows how to do trowel and grout work to make her look better, OR younger.

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So, if she doesn't speak in tongues, does that mean she's not born again?

Dear beautiful & intelligent Belle:

1.- The Bible divide the people in 3 categories Judeans, gentiles & born again believers members of the body of Christ.

2.- Romans 10:9 y 10 teach how you born again. To confess & to believe.

3.- Then you receiv holy spirit and the manifestation is to SIT.

4.- Yes, You can be born again whitout manifesting SIT. Like most of the Christians outside the Way or the cop out ex-way groups.

5.- The adversary copied what God did, so he invented the seed of the serpent. (AOS, DTA) :wave:


Linda, just curious, what is the definition of "one of us"?

Did y'all question whether she was born again since you never heard her speak in tongues?

Yes we are joking about, because she is a bad person tha she may be a seed of the serpent.

Edited by themex
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What is a Gold Parachute? B)

A "parachute" is what a skydiver wears to slow his fall.

In business slang,

a "parachute" is the retirement plan (retirement money)

set aside for an executive.

A "Gold Parachute" is a retirement plan that has a

lot of money-a LOT of money.

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1.- The Bible divide the people in 3 categories Judeans, gentiles & born again believers members of the body of Christ.

2.- Romans 10:9 y 10 teach how you born again. To confess & to believe.

3.- Then you receiv holy spirit and the manifestation is to SIT.

4.- Yes, You can be born again whitout manifesting SIT. Like most of the Christians outside the Way or the cop out ex-way groups.

5.- The adversary copied what God did, so he invented the seed of the serpent. (AOS, DTA)

Mex: Don't assume that we all agree that all the things that you mentioned are true.
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5.- The adversary copied what God did, so he invented the seed of the serpent. (AOS, DTA)

vpw and lcm just announced this like it was true because

they said it was true.

It was evidently wrong because it was inconsistent.

Supposedly, "seed of the serpent" was a cheap knockoff

of the new birth.



the "seed of the serpent" included people all the way back

in the book of Genesis,

thousands of years BEFORE the new birth.


there is absolutely NO verse, and NO evidence to

claim that ANYONE gets a "permanent devil-spirit"

at any time.

That was claimed, but never demonstrated.

And no matter what the class setting,

all the claims of such were just a


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  • 2 months later...

I met her at new knoxville farm in the late seventies. She didn't seem anyone special to me. I think I had a conversation with her a time or two.

I think she is from North Carolina and was a school teacher.

I have wondered how in the world did she rise up to what she is doing now? She seemed like everyone else that worked on grounds to me. No one special.

I only knew of her in the 80's as the woman who oversaw the blessed workers in way publications.At one point, I believe, she had them signing in and out when they went to the bathroom. She brought 'micro managing' to a new level.

I know, after being in for many years, and then hearing she was the new PREZ, I hadn't even heard of her.

There has to be some reason that she was "exalted" to this "position of importance" (and I use the words "important position" with much humor). She knows something and probably had the BOT over a barrel with this information. I heard her own son won't fellowship with TWI - I thought there was something in the Word about having your own house in order before you run around telling other people to clean their houses (literally and figuratively).

If I recall, it was pfal 77 (the live class)...that was her springboard into twi importance. Correct me if I'm wrong...but twi rented out a major portion of Ball state University and housed a few thousand people for about a week...I was there. It was billed as Wierwille's last time to teach pfal live...Rozilla coordinated the entire thing...and Wierwille paraded her around as being "sumthin speeeeeeeecial". She certainly didn't fit the mold of the average twi recruit...her syrupy southern belle accent was enough to gag a maggot...

She was an opportunist...her specialty has always been to plot behind the scenes and decide who to stab in the back. She got "the chair" by default...martindumb had run off all the people who were qualified to do the job...there was nobody left...

except bob moneyhands...I often wonder why he didn't get the job when loy boy was tossed...I suspect that loy figured he could get his job back, after things "cooled down"...EASIER, if he left a dislikable, non-charismatic, lesbian bureaucrat in charge?...unless it was just one more example of martindale's extremely poor judgement...

As I recall, she was pretty much in charge of Way Productions for a long time. With the possible exception of the Corps, WP was TWI's biggest operation. When Don W. stepped down, it probably made sense to someone to replace him with another bureaucrat. icon_rolleyes.gif<!--graemlin::rolleyes:--> I can't speculate on the possibility of her having "the goods" on other BOT members; but I can't rule it out, either.


RFR was a VP foot (and God knows what else) kisser to his face and in public.. Behind his back, she lied to him (e.g., "Tell him I'm not in" orders when he phoned her office).

VP was a master at overlooking people's personality and character flaws if they could do something to promote twi. She was organized, authoritarian, and educated, so he put her in charge of Way Prod and Univ. of Life. So what if she treated people, at best, like children and, at worst, like slaves? Observing this pattern of VPW's was my first hint that his judgment was clouded by ambition.

I find it interesting that as soon as VPW was on his way out as a real power player of twi, around the time LCM was named as VP's successor, RFR suddenly got very cozy with DM. Maybe she was privately cozy with her before, but around that time, they suddenly started being seen together constantly. RFR knew where the power base of twi was, starting with VP and then slithering her way into the LCM regime.

I've said this before: It was my sense that RFR neither liked nor respected LCM. I base this on snide comments I heard her make about him in private, when she wasn't up on a stage with that insipid PR grin on her face saying how damn wonderful he was.

RFR and DM's "special friendship" was obvious to everyone...maybe even LCM noticed it and as a result disliked her as much as she disliked him. Don W. was onto her two-faced approach to "leadership," as well.

So how did RFR get to the top? I can only surmise, based on what I know. I think she knew too much about LCM's shenanigans, and VP's before him. For all I know, she played on LCM's weakness and set him up for the fall. I wouldn't put it past her.

This is the only logical explanation I can come up with. It sure as heck wasn't for her teaching or public speaking ability. It wasn't because she was a hot babe. icon_razz.gif<!--graemlin::P--> It wasn't because she was widely loved and respected by wayfers in general. As can be seen in this thread, most wayfers didn't know her, and many didn't even know who she was.

Doesn't she have two sons? One was in jail? We never hear about her sons. She's divorced and got tons of prime real estate when she divorced. Didn't want her picture on the internet.

Went on private vacations with just her and Donna. Spent week-end getaways with Donna at Indiana's campus.

Never teaches, just reads....and mostly just lists of verses at that.

Moneyhands doesn't like her but kisses her butt.

Has been caught in numerous lies.

Got to keep cats when everyone else was forced to give up their pets.

Has a swimming pool while most people rent with much lesser amenities, if any.

ABS has paid for a boat and lessons for her while most people are convinced to skip most little league and other things for their kids.

Does she like onions? Are they still contraband at hq?

RFR taught at a nearby Limb meeting around Easter. This was perhaps 77 or 78. I had never heard of her nor had many of the people there though we were assured that she was a "great woman of God" by the local leaders many of whom seemed ambivolent about the arrangement. It was as if her presence represented a last minute change and she was thrust upon the Limb and she had to be accomodated. I don't know this to be true but that is the impression I got. We were all expecting someone else to teach. Some of the area people didn't look happy about the change.

Anyway her teaching was unremarkable. She talked down Easter as a counterfeit and spoke of Penetecost as the day we should be celebrating. Nothing new really - just a regurgitation of standard Way teaching on Easter. Her teaching style was very dry and she made no attempt at humor (even standard, corny Way jokes). It was a rainy day and I found myself drifting off frequently. I don't think RFR's rise to power had anything to do with her public speaking skills or her mastery of "the word".

Over the years (in and out of TWI) I've encountered individuals who are excellent manipulators of people and they have an acumen for positioning themselves correctly such that when the time is right they can step into positions of influence and power. Non-coincidentally they tend to be accomplished at schmoozing the right people which typically involves the development of a close relationship with a "target". The purpose of this is to get information that will later become useful. Of course while its happening the "target" feels lucky to have such a "close friend" in whom they can confide. ("No one understands me like you do. I can always count on your support"). These manipulators are loyal to no one except themselves. They usually are successful to the extent that they "move up" but it comes at a cost. Eventually people do recognize them as the manipulators they are.

I sat with the grads when RFR took PFAL in 1973 at the ECU Way Home in Greenville, NC.

It is my understanding that she taught high school English in New Bern, NC and was introduced to twi and pfal by her students.

She rose to prominence in the NC Limb very quickly. Most of us in NC were pretty young during that time. We were mostly either college or high school students. Even the Limb Leader during that time was only 27. Since she was in her either late thirties or early forties, a high school teacher and most of all very loyal to the Limb leadership, she was deemed especially valuable in reaching out to parents. She found herself speaking in front of Limb gatherings relatively soon.

RR was always around on stage (it seems) giving out the announcements for some big event twi was promoting -- (Live class, weekends in the word, heartbeat festivals, soundout 84, etc.) I figured her to be the *official spokesperson* for these things, and not much more. Like Trefor says -- you always heard her on the sns tapes plugging some new ministry function.

I remember she was big in the U. of L. (coordinating and such), but never knew much about her other "duties". Thanks for filling in some of the gaps there Linda and Oeno. icon_smile.gif<!--graemlin::)--><BR><BR>David

When I did the WONC (Word Over North Carolina) program in the summer of 1974, I was assigned to a group in Charlotte with Rosie as the group leader. Three girls, one other guy and me. The other guy bolted before we even got started (smart guy) leaving me the odd man out and I was traded to another group for a player to be named later.

So then I was with another guy, a married couple and their one-year old son until that guy bolted too. Maybe it was me. icon_biggrin.gif<!--graemlin::D-->

In the short time I was in Rosie's group, she never struck me as being anybody special in the way. She did strike me as being unbelievably uptight and we never would have gotten along at all. I would have bolted before the summer was over. I didn't think she was over 30 at that time but I really had no idea.

We were in the northern part of the city and she was in the southern and I don't think we saw them all summer. Of course, we didn't exactly follow the program the way it was written down.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

What the heck qualifies her to lead?

She's had a broken marriage. Broken family. Little is known about her sons, if anything. She hasn't brought a ****load of people to the Word. She isn't getting major revelation on exciting new ways to lead the ministry. She isn't doing anything to help it grow. Review of STS and Way Rags show there isn't any hot Bible coming outta HQ. She's a facade, window dressing, a talking head, if you will, for a dead. DEAD. Dead. Very dead ministry. And if you look up the qualification for a minister in Timothy, her picture isn't exactly in the book, if you know what I mean.

Hell, there's more excitement and action in my cat's litterbox than there is in TWI - not to mention the litterbox smells better!

Don't underestimate her. There are depths to her only a few know about. She was 1st Family Corps, coordinated PFAL77 with Bob Weingardner, took over Way Pub., then Way Prod., then Geer put her in charge of the entire Auditorium a year or so after Black Wednesday. Much to our dismay, Don WW resigned and placed her as VP, and then she became Pres after Martindale left. She wormed her way using people, friendships, deciept, and micro-management. She knows everything about everyone who worked for her, we would have to fill out and turn in a weekly plan sheet to her, accounting for every hour of the next week, when and what we would study, when we would exercise, when we would eat, what TV we would watch, when we would have 'intimate' time with out spouse. Then the next week, we would have to turn in last week's plan, marked in red anyplace we didn't stick to our plan and the reason that the adversary had talked us out of doing what we had said we were going to do.

Perhaps the scariest thing about her is the fact that she can look you in the eye, smile, lie to you, and cut off your balls and stab you in the back all at the same time.

Ya, I know I have been gone from here for a couple of years, but those like Catcup may remember me.

(sign me) Still Straightening My Life Out

minor correction, she was Special Corps II, which became known as the Family Corps with the Family III first year in 76/77. I was on my interim year on staff that year at hq. Other than that quibble, all is correct: she is a slippery, conniving, untrustable snake...

What I find interesting.. of all the Greasespot "stars"..

Ole Doc Vic (praise be his name!- just for you , Steve..) gets a beating here, but several posters actually have a several good things to say about him.

Loy, on the other hand, does not receive much mercy except for maybe one or two supporters that knew him a long, long time ago- at least what I have observed.

Why is it the NOBODY has anything good to say about the current poor excuse for a president?

"opportunist" is the nicest description I have read on the whole thread.

Good point Mr. Hammeroni. <BR><BR>In all these years on these forums including Waydale, and with communications with friends and fellow believers and associates from all over the world.....

I have not heard ONE good thing said about her by ANYBODY. As you said, this is not even true of LCM or VPW.

Heck, a <A HREF="http://www.richeson.org/7thCorps/" TARGET=_blank>lot of us</A> liked "Craig" at one time years ago when he was our immediate Corps leader.

Personally I do not know her and do not care to. But Fox.... simply seems to me like a bitter, old, lonely person with few real friends and mostly unliked and unloved most of her life.

It's beyond pathetic. Lots of people in this world like that. Many end up at the end of their miserable lives with no one really caring much about them and mostly glad to have them out of the way.

Astounding that she is tolerated by the current active shrinking followers!

LCM did it. He perhaps wanted to cause misery to others on his way out the door. Or perhaps he was politically forced to put her in that position because of what she must know. Another one of his many bad decisions, maybe his worst ever.

Speaks volumes of the in depth spiritual perception and awarness of those in charge in twi vp, lcm dw etc, and the successors they chose....

I remember it the same way, Oak. It was really just an announcement.

The Moneyhands read the letter they sent to HQ regarding rosie's new position and I don't really remember much of it but that it wasn't really all that nice, especially if you read between the lines.

The quote I do remember is from the opening paragraph of their letter,

"We take no pleasure in battlefield promotions...."

Yep Belle, it was a tough job, but someone just HAD to do it.. good grief, like ole Loy was just a casualty of war or something.

The Fox and Donna had groomed themselves for a LONG time for this promotion.

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From Belle's post......in what the Moneyhands said.

"We take no pleasure in battlefield promotions..."

Aren't twi's "in-cult promotions" in actuality standard m.o...?? I mean, really, twi has an all-or-nothing, black & white, believer or non-believer, with us or against us approach....and lots of these "promotions" are more appropriately DAMAGE CONTROL.

Battlefield promotions............. :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

Nice spin job, twi.

Edited by skyrider
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Yeah, battelfield promotions is not the appropriate term at all. It is an insult to all true battles that have been fought as well as to soldiers.

I think they are really desperation promotions. last resort promotions, "scrape the bottom of the barrell" promotions, failure promotions, "nobody else wants the job" promotions, scapegoat promotions and in some cases demotions.

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  • 17 years later...

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