TWI'.s total assets have only increased by about 7 percent since 2001.
Interestingly though, it's medical fund has increased by over 500 percent. This may show where a lot of the money is really going.
I doub't that anyone other than a few selected staff and the BOT can use the money in the "Medical Fund".
And it seems that none of this money (all from ABS) was available for Mrs. Wierwille, even thought there was about 7 million in there at the time she was moved to the nursing home.
TWI'.s total assets have only increased by about 7 percent since 2001.
Interestingly though, it's medical fund has increased by over 500 percent. This may show where a lot of the money is really going.
I doub't that anyone other than a few selected staff and the BOT can use the money in the "Medical Fund".
And it seems that none of this money (all from ABS) was available for Mrs. Wierwille, even thought there was about 7 million in there at the time she was moved to the nursing home.
When I was on staff, anyone could get reimbursed for medical expenses - you just had to present your bill to your department head and fill out a form. You were also supposed to get permission - or council - whatever - to go to the doctor or dentist in the first place. They were actually quite good about it because they knew that any condition left to "fester" would only end up costing more money for treatment and down time for the workers in the long run. They wanted people to get things done - teeth cleanings, annual exams, screenings (age appropriate), etc.
The one thing that bothered me about this system is that we were to tell doctors we were paying cash - we were self-pay. We were fiercely told NOT to tell the doctors we were being reimbursed - only that we were self-pay.
Here's a problem with being self-pay vs. having medical insurance coverage:
Well, in most medical billing situations, self-pay does not mean that you are billed less than someone with insurance - BUT - insurance companies have contracts with hospitals to pay a percent of the bill. Insurance companies pay LESS than what they are billed, in otherwords - sometimes as little as 25% or 33% on the dollar. HOWEVER, Joe Self-Pay, who is paying out of pocket, pays 100%. Usually doctors will not charge for every little thing they do or they will charge for a lower level visit just out of pity for the self-pay patient, but reality is a difference of as much as 75% MORE that the self-pay patient is paying than what the medical insurance company is paying.
In addition, insurance companies very often hire a third-party audit company who will review the patient's itemized bill along with a copy of the patient's medical record to look for discripencies. The audit company will get reimbursements from the hospital for any mistakes or overpayments that the insurance company made. If Joe Self-Pay gets over changed, he has to discover that overcharge himself or hire an auditor himself to find the error. In other words, they could be getting overcharged and not be wise to it. (My day job is working on the hospital side of the audit process - it's actually quite interesting - I love saving my hospital money!)
I would have thought that TWI would have shopped around and bought into a co-op medical insurance program. It seems that with all the staffers they have that this would be a viable, cost-effective option for them, with the right program.... even if it was just for prescriptions....
I see the assets, what are the liabilities? A balance sheet is to show both. You takes the assets less the liabilities to come up with the net worth. If they have practiced their "no debt" philosophy in-house, there should not be many. But one large line item would have to be for legal expenses and monies set aside for settling law suits. Wonder how much they have estimated this amount to be? Courts/lawyers have probably advised on the amounts that are needed to be in reserve for this.
hell we went without stuff so we could fatten them up?
damn
Yup, it's for real -- in so much as this is the official statement that TWI filed with the state of Arizona.
Now, whether or not it accurately reflects TWI's financial condition is a matter of specualtion
--------------------
Chas,
Thanks for the good info. What do you suppose accounts for the huge increase in the medical fund from 2001 to 2005 ? It doesn't seem that the staff has grown that much.
Is this the ABS they've collected? Or is it spread out across other categories as well?
Interesting that it's only grown by 7%. What are the average returns on investments these days for something like that? I know my personal 401K grew about 14%, but I don't know how that compares.
I wonder if the medical increase is because they were told by the lawyers that they should start providing healthcare insurance for the staff. Given how cheap they were with elective treatments and other things that perhaps TWI deemed "unnecessary".
It is a sham, Goey, as you said that they have all that money and couldn't find any way to pay for Mrs. Wierwille?
I'm thinkin' accounts receivable is just what they are owed ... but I'm not really a finance guy
It is a sham, Goey, as you said that they have all that money and couldn't find any way to pay for Mrs. Wierwille?
Or to not pay for so much for staff for so long. $50 mil ... Holy Sacred Cow that laid the golden egg! I would think the ex staff would have a shot at collecting some of that. I hope twi is in court for a long time paying various people for various abuses. Of course if people just sue them one at a time it would take forever. Considering the standards used for removing employees, it seems there could be some class actions, but I don't know. Mostly it seems outrageous that there is that much money in the control of a few that are so far removed from those that brought it in. You'd think a charity would have to use it's donated money for ... :blink: ... like charitable stuff!
Is this the ABS they've collected? Or is it spread out across other categories as well?
Interesting that it's only grown by 7%. What are the average returns on investments these days for something like that? I know my personal 401K grew about 14%, but I don't know how that compares.
I wonder if the medical increase is because they were told by the lawyers that they should start providing healthcare insurance for the staff. Given how cheap they were with elective treatments and other things that perhaps TWI deemed "unnecessary".
It is a sham, Goey, as you said that they have all that money and couldn't find any way to pay for Mrs. Wierwille?
Belle,
There is no way that the "Accounts Receivable.....109,455.00" is the ABS collected.
About 10 years ago, I had seen enough blue forms over the years.....that I calculated the average ABS figures in my area. Now granted, every area & limb would vary depending on numerous factors, but here is what I found.
These were MY calculations for MY area. I do not presume to speculate on all 50 states, different levels of income, etc. etc. etc. So........according to my calculations, if there were 100 people faithfully attending twi functions, then families, stay-at-home moms, singles, college students, etc were included into this mix. And,
thus.........100 would, on average, ABS to twi $1,750.00 per year..........or, $175,000.00
So........if a state had 100 active innies.......then $175,000.00 came into twi's coffers.
Of course, there are larger numbers in some states and very little in others. But, even if you multiplied that figure by 40 (representing 40 states).......then the figure climbs to $8,000,000.00 per year.
Argueably, twi's numbers continue to decline.........so today's numbers would be less.
The salary of staffers is the biggest expenditure.......most noticeably on the field. There is NO SECRET why twi like to have volunteer limb coordinators, limb staff and corps on the field. At hq, with dorm-style living and cafeteria food and many SINGLES on staff..........twi is able to really watch the pennies.
It is a sham, Goey, as you said that they have all that money and couldn't find any way to pay for Mrs. Wierwille?
If Dorothea Wierwille wasn't a bona fide employee of the Way International, they may have not been able to legally pay for her medical needs out of their corporation insurance.
But that would not have stopped them from asking "The Household of Faith" for special donations and abundant sharing, as they did for things like the auditorium (whatever they're calling it this year), and, IIRC, the motorcoach.
In fact, I seem to recall something about the church taking care of widows and orphans in that book they say they study all the time...
Is this the ABS they've collected? Or is it spread out across other categories as well?
Interesting that it's only grown by 7%. What are the average returns on investments these days for something like that? I know my personal 401K grew about 14%, but I don't know how that compares.
I wonder if the medical increase is because they were told by the lawyers that they should start providing healthcare insurance for the staff. Given how cheap they were with elective treatments and other things that perhaps TWI deemed "unnecessary".
It is a sham, Goey, as you said that they have all that money and couldn't find any way to pay for Mrs. Wierwille?
Belle, I could be wrong don't think ABS would be classified as accounts receivable. ABS would be considered donations. Accounts receivable would be money actually owed to TWI that they have not yet received.
The 7 percent growth is really not too shabby considering TWI's downsizing. Most of TWI's investments are in safe short term insruments which won't return anything like 14 percent- probably more on the lines of 3- 5 percent. $19,413,000 at 5 percent would yield only about $970,000 in interest income
Now, if we have 3000 folks with an average income of $25,000 each paying 10 percent ABS, that comes to about 7.5 million in ABS ( plus interest that it earns). If 2000 had an average income of only $15,000 it still comes to 3 million in ABS. So we can see how important ABS is to TWI maintaining their fund balance.
If Dorothea Wierwille wasn't a bona fide employee of the Way International, they may have not been able to legally pay for her medical needs out of their corporation insurance.
Possibly. .... However, TWI is a legally set up as a charitable organization and as such can donate money to any charity it wants. It would have been a simple process to set up a charitable fund for Mrs Wierweille. It's not like they didn't have the funds to do that.
If they could legally provide housing and meals for her prior to her illness then what would prevent them for doing it aftwards?
They, like the Pharisees said "it is Corban" and freed themselves of any obligation. Plain and simple.
From what I remember from school, "current liabilities" means they come due within 12 months. So the "Other Liabilities" would be due beyond that.
Accounts Payable are typically invoices received but not yet paid. Utilities, food vendors, payroll and such would be my guess. Kind of like the stack of bills I have waiting for payday.
It sure would be interesting to see their detailed balance sheet. This is rolled up into very general line items, but that's all that's required.
There must be some kind of advantage to filing in Arizona. Many corporations do file in odd states. Delaware is a common one. Not that there's anything wrong with that!
Accounts Receivable could include money collected from:
land they have rented to farmers
Bookstore profits
the sales of assets
maturity of investments
etc.
A/R could be many things. As Goey said, I think ABS would be considered "donations" - we all know what a joke that is!
===============================
I think the climb in money for medical costs is to care for the staffers better, but keep in mind that many of the former BOT, etc., are starting to get older and healthcare costs have skyrocketed - especially prescriptions. Maybe that money is for Rosie's Princess Retirement Criuse ship!
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dmiller
What I read is a lot of money, but mostly *in-house*, eh??
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johniam
Yep. They're digging in till the rapture.
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GT
Funny, they still say The Way has no members.....
...unless it's the government asking, then YES, we do have members.
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topoftheworld
What the ***** is the medical fund?
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Tom Strange
I don't know... are they self-insured?
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Linda Z
I don't know if they still are, but when I was on staff (82-6), they were self-insured.
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templelady
Accounts receivable??
Since everything is pay as you go what receivables???
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Goey
TWI'.s total assets have only increased by about 7 percent since 2001.
Interestingly though, it's medical fund has increased by over 500 percent. This may show where a lot of the money is really going.
I doub't that anyone other than a few selected staff and the BOT can use the money in the "Medical Fund".
And it seems that none of this money (all from ABS) was available for Mrs. Wierwille, even thought there was about 7 million in there at the time she was moved to the nursing home.
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ChasUFarley
When I was on staff, anyone could get reimbursed for medical expenses - you just had to present your bill to your department head and fill out a form. You were also supposed to get permission - or council - whatever - to go to the doctor or dentist in the first place. They were actually quite good about it because they knew that any condition left to "fester" would only end up costing more money for treatment and down time for the workers in the long run. They wanted people to get things done - teeth cleanings, annual exams, screenings (age appropriate), etc.
The one thing that bothered me about this system is that we were to tell doctors we were paying cash - we were self-pay. We were fiercely told NOT to tell the doctors we were being reimbursed - only that we were self-pay.
Here's a problem with being self-pay vs. having medical insurance coverage:
Well, in most medical billing situations, self-pay does not mean that you are billed less than someone with insurance - BUT - insurance companies have contracts with hospitals to pay a percent of the bill. Insurance companies pay LESS than what they are billed, in otherwords - sometimes as little as 25% or 33% on the dollar. HOWEVER, Joe Self-Pay, who is paying out of pocket, pays 100%. Usually doctors will not charge for every little thing they do or they will charge for a lower level visit just out of pity for the self-pay patient, but reality is a difference of as much as 75% MORE that the self-pay patient is paying than what the medical insurance company is paying.
In addition, insurance companies very often hire a third-party audit company who will review the patient's itemized bill along with a copy of the patient's medical record to look for discripencies. The audit company will get reimbursements from the hospital for any mistakes or overpayments that the insurance company made. If Joe Self-Pay gets over changed, he has to discover that overcharge himself or hire an auditor himself to find the error. In other words, they could be getting overcharged and not be wise to it. (My day job is working on the hospital side of the audit process - it's actually quite interesting - I love saving my hospital money!)
I would have thought that TWI would have shopped around and bought into a co-op medical insurance program. It seems that with all the staffers they have that this would be a viable, cost-effective option for them, with the right program.... even if it was just for prescriptions....
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Suda
I see the assets, what are the liabilities? A balance sheet is to show both. You takes the assets less the liabilities to come up with the net worth. If they have practiced their "no debt" philosophy in-house, there should not be many. But one large line item would have to be for legal expenses and monies set aside for settling law suits. Wonder how much they have estimated this amount to be? Courts/lawyers have probably advised on the amounts that are needed to be in reserve for this.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
goey is that statement for real??
i had no idea! i want mine back
hell we went without stuff so we could fatten them up?
damn
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Goey
Yup, it's for real -- in so much as this is the official statement that TWI filed with the state of Arizona.
Now, whether or not it accurately reflects TWI's financial condition is a matter of specualtion
--------------------
Chas,
Thanks for the good info. What do you suppose accounts for the huge increase in the medical fund from 2001 to 2005 ? It doesn't seem that the staff has grown that much.
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Goey
I didn't include the liabilities in my initial post. The liabilities are a little less than 2,000,000 and are not detailed.
Click on the link I provided in the first post and go to 2005 to see the complete report.
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WordWolf
The liabilities are listed by name-they're the management.
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Jim
How do they book the liabilities that will come due at the Bema?
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dmiller
Self-insured --- or Self-assured???
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Belle
Is this the ABS they've collected? Or is it spread out across other categories as well?
Interesting that it's only grown by 7%. What are the average returns on investments these days for something like that? I know my personal 401K grew about 14%, but I don't know how that compares.
I wonder if the medical increase is because they were told by the lawyers that they should start providing healthcare insurance for the staff. Given how cheap they were with elective treatments and other things that perhaps TWI deemed "unnecessary".
It is a sham, Goey, as you said that they have all that money and couldn't find any way to pay for Mrs. Wierwille?
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rhino
I'm thinkin' accounts receivable is just what they are owed ... but I'm not really a finance guy
Or to not pay for so much for staff for so long. $50 mil ... Holy Sacred Cow that laid the golden egg! I would think the ex staff would have a shot at collecting some of that. I hope twi is in court for a long time paying various people for various abuses. Of course if people just sue them one at a time it would take forever. Considering the standards used for removing employees, it seems there could be some class actions, but I don't know. Mostly it seems outrageous that there is that much money in the control of a few that are so far removed from those that brought it in. You'd think a charity would have to use it's donated money for ... :blink: ... like charitable stuff!Link to comment
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skyrider
Belle,
There is no way that the "Accounts Receivable.....109,455.00" is the ABS collected.
About 10 years ago, I had seen enough blue forms over the years.....that I calculated the average ABS figures in my area. Now granted, every area & limb would vary depending on numerous factors, but here is what I found.
These were MY calculations for MY area. I do not presume to speculate on all 50 states, different levels of income, etc. etc. etc. So........according to my calculations, if there were 100 people faithfully attending twi functions, then families, stay-at-home moms, singles, college students, etc were included into this mix. And,
thus.........100 would, on average, ABS to twi $1,750.00 per year..........or, $175,000.00
So........if a state had 100 active innies.......then $175,000.00 came into twi's coffers.
Of course, there are larger numbers in some states and very little in others. But, even if you multiplied that figure by 40 (representing 40 states).......then the figure climbs to $8,000,000.00 per year.
Argueably, twi's numbers continue to decline.........so today's numbers would be less.
The salary of staffers is the biggest expenditure.......most noticeably on the field. There is NO SECRET why twi like to have volunteer limb coordinators, limb staff and corps on the field. At hq, with dorm-style living and cafeteria food and many SINGLES on staff..........twi is able to really watch the pennies.
:)
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Kevlar2000
If Dorothea Wierwille wasn't a bona fide employee of the Way International, they may have not been able to legally pay for her medical needs out of their corporation insurance.
But that would not have stopped them from asking "The Household of Faith" for special donations and abundant sharing, as they did for things like the auditorium (whatever they're calling it this year), and, IIRC, the motorcoach.
In fact, I seem to recall something about the church taking care of widows and orphans in that book they say they study all the time...
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Goey
Belle, I could be wrong don't think ABS would be classified as accounts receivable. ABS would be considered donations. Accounts receivable would be money actually owed to TWI that they have not yet received.
The 7 percent growth is really not too shabby considering TWI's downsizing. Most of TWI's investments are in safe short term insruments which won't return anything like 14 percent- probably more on the lines of 3- 5 percent. $19,413,000 at 5 percent would yield only about $970,000 in interest income
Now, if we have 3000 folks with an average income of $25,000 each paying 10 percent ABS, that comes to about 7.5 million in ABS ( plus interest that it earns). If 2000 had an average income of only $15,000 it still comes to 3 million in ABS. So we can see how important ABS is to TWI maintaining their fund balance.
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Goey
Possibly. .... However, TWI is a legally set up as a charitable organization and as such can donate money to any charity it wants. It would have been a simple process to set up a charitable fund for Mrs Wierweille. It's not like they didn't have the funds to do that.
If they could legally provide housing and meals for her prior to her illness then what would prevent them for doing it aftwards?
They, like the Pharisees said "it is Corban" and freed themselves of any obligation. Plain and simple.
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outintexas
Here are the liabilities:
Liabilities and Fund Balance
Current Liabilities
Accounts Payable 508,368.87
Other 1,090,685.41
Total Current Liabilites: 1,599,054.28
Other Liabilities 1,125,526.00
From what I remember from school, "current liabilities" means they come due within 12 months. So the "Other Liabilities" would be due beyond that.
Accounts Payable are typically invoices received but not yet paid. Utilities, food vendors, payroll and such would be my guess. Kind of like the stack of bills I have waiting for payday.
It sure would be interesting to see their detailed balance sheet. This is rolled up into very general line items, but that's all that's required.
There must be some kind of advantage to filing in Arizona. Many corporations do file in odd states. Delaware is a common one. Not that there's anything wrong with that!
Goey, this is a very interesting find! Thanks!
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ChasUFarley
Accounts Receivable could include money collected from:
land they have rented to farmers
Bookstore profits
the sales of assets
maturity of investments
etc.
A/R could be many things. As Goey said, I think ABS would be considered "donations" - we all know what a joke that is!
===============================
I think the climb in money for medical costs is to care for the staffers better, but keep in mind that many of the former BOT, etc., are starting to get older and healthcare costs have skyrocketed - especially prescriptions. Maybe that money is for Rosie's Princess Retirement Criuse ship!
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