DO YOU THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE DIRTY BATHWATER?

[rosestoyou]

I'm new here, although have read posts for many years, off and on. The brainwashing post has sparked a reply. Why throw away all we've learned? I have tried to decipher what was wrong and what was good in TWI. It has taken years to fully understand the impact on my mind of what the TWI has done to me, but I am thankful for the word (some) I learned. Yes, VP was wrong in that he claimed all was his "revelation" or through his own research, but when it really comes down to it, who cares? If you look at all the "supposed men of God" on TV, and others, have you been able to find one that is not lying about their so called revelations, right teachings? NO and I have looked at many of them. I do not believe that anyone has the key to GOD. I was very involved in TWI and saw many things, some I was too naive to know what was really going on, but some would make your skin crawl! Why throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater? Does this mean I'm still brainwashed???

Just looking for a few more answers!

:)

[rascal]

Lol...if you can ASK if you are brain washed...lol that is a healthy sign :)

[Abigail]

Welcome aboard, Rose! Would you care for some dinner or desert?

I think each individual has to decide for themselves what to do with what they learned in TWI. Personally, I did throw it all away. The only premise I kept, and I even questioned that one for a time, wasis there a god or perhaps even many gods?

From there I did my own research and drew my own conclusions. I may once again believe some of the things I learned while in TWI, but now I believe them based on my own research and my own relationship with God, not because TWI taught them. Nor do I give TWI any credit for what I believe. I trust God led me to where I am today and He can have the credit.

[Catcup]

I'm new here, although have read posts for many years, off and on. The brainwashing post has sparked a reply. Why throw away all we've learned? I have tried to decipher what was wrong and what was good in TWI. It has taken years to fully understand the impact on my mind of what the TWI has done to me, but I am thankful for the word (some) I learned. Yes, VP was wrong in that he claimed all was his "revelation" or through his own research, but when it really comes down to it, who cares? If you look at all the "supposed men of God" on TV, and others, have you been able to find one that is not lying about their so called revelations, right teachings? NO and I have looked at many of them. I do not believe that anyone has the key to GOD. I was very involved in TWI and saw many things, some I was too naive to know what was really going on, but some would make your skin crawl! Why throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater? Does this mean I'm still brainwashed???

Just looking for a few more answers!

:)

Don't be afraid to toss ALL the dirty water out.

The baby is too big to fall down the drain.

What I mean by that is, toss it out, toss it all out. Then reconstruct what you believe from sources outside TWI. If what TWI taught you was the truth, you will then run across it and document it from other sources that are NOT CONTAMINATED by TWI

[George Aar]

What if there IS no baby?

Maybe it's just dirty water.

"Does this mean I'm still brainwashed???" I dunno. Maybe...

[waysider]

Hi, rosestoyou,

First, let me say "welcome" to the cafe.

I probably don't have any more real answers than you do.

The very fact that you recognize you were under mind control and now wonder about its lingering presence is, in my opinion, a mighty good sign you are seeing thing more clearly.

Throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater?

The problem arises (IMO) when some people insist on keeping the baby immersed in the dirty bathwater.

There were good things that came from our involvement and there were bad things as well.

Separating the two can be somewhat tricky at times.

Again, Welcome!

Oh, yeah. Cool thumbnails!

[GarthP2000]

What if there IS no baby?

Maybe it's just dirty water.

What if there was no tub?

[exwaycorps]

.

The baby is too big to fall down the drain.

I love that !

[Nottawayfer]

Don't be afraid to toss ALL the dirty water out.

The baby is too big to fall down the drain.

Thanks. I like that.

I did toss ALL of the bath water. Then I started fresh. Maybe I adopted some things back, but it is with a different mind-set. It's not about having the all and only truth. For me, it's more about a relationship with Him (which includes Jesus).

[Eyesopen]

Roses, welcome to the Spot! I have no magic answers either. I don't think that anyone does have all the answers but it is good that you are asking. It does take a while to determine what you really do believe. And I encourage you to re-examine everything.

Cat has a good idea on how to determine what is good for you and what was cr@p. That is what I did, mind you because of other things it took me about 10 years to sort through enough just to come back to GS. (I was here once before but I wasn't quite ready yet)

Lots of folks are ready to help you work through things here. Or to leave you alone to work it through yourself. And Rascal is right if you are asking, then you probably arent.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Throw out the dirty bathwater, the baby and the bathtub...

and then search your heart...the Christian message is a simple one...it's not about studying books, accepting church dogma or memorizing the bible...it's about faith and developing a relationship with God...and then living your life honestly, being motivated by love and trying to make a difference in people's lives.

I no longer follow men...I seek to do what I believe is the right thing and I trust that the spirit of God within me leads me in my life.

Be careful of who you pledge your loyalty to...the guys on TV are under pressure to make money and keep their ratings up...and that's not where my head is at. Maybe a local church can provide you with some substantial fellowship and encouragement.

The body of Christ is a spiritual body...not an organization with a tax exemption...

[T-Bone]

Welcome to Grease Spot, Roses To You – where there’s lots of options – but I’ll list just a few:

The baby got out of the bathwater a long time ago.

Put the baby up for adoption – use bathwater to make coffee for the Twig.

Replace the baby with three men in the tub – TWI’s original board of trustees – tell them to play hide the salami.

Install an elaborate filtration system to re-cycle existing bathwater.

Drain bathtub – verify baby doesn’t go down the drain.

Give baby a bath with Wet Wipes.

Don’t let the baby get dirty to begin with.

Run baby through a pre-wash cycle before main bath.

Have baby dry cleaned.

Train baby to throw bathwater out.

Develop a throw baby / bathwater simulation program to run various scenarios, noting variations due to force of throw, wind direction and speed, mood of the baby and person throwing, etc.

Build a mock-up baby / bathwater throwing demonstration using a poodle and keg of beer. Whoever throws the poodle the farthest gets the keg of beer.

[J0nny Ling0]

I DO have all the answers. You see, the seven Church epistles are placed directly in between the end of the Book of Acts which follows the gospels, and....No wait. Just kidding. Anyway, welcome to the Grease Spot Cafe. I for one have only thrown out the dirty bath water, and still embrace many things I learned while in The Way. There are not too many people like me here at the GSC, but a few. And if there are more, they are not wanting to speak up about it for fear of repercussions. Outside of the GSC, there many thousands who still appreciate and utilize teachings that they learned while in The Way. I think the Baby was good. Good enough to keep around. This opinion is not very well accepted around here though. I will say though, that I do recognize that VPW did in fact, become a man who committed many evil acts that hurt a lot of people. And to me, that is very sad. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's an old and sad story here on this planet...

[Dot Matrix]

I first heard some of the scriptures via PFAL. But many I heard previously. Why? Because they are in the Bible.

If you heard Romans 10:9, 10 and you love that you ARE born again then cleave to that, not to the man on the film or speaking it to you on the tapes.

The fact that you found God in a crap storm -- now that is a miracle for which we should thank our Lord.

BTW

Did you throw the bath water out?

What kinda baby are we talking about

Does it say "Lashunta lakka maka seeto...?" Does it have a dove on its diaper? Come with a wooden spoon?

OR does it represent the Bible which was around long before TWI?

What does your baby look like?

[dmiller]

Put the baby up for adoption – use bathwater to make coffee for the Twig.

Now THAT'S the ultimate -- for *stretching* coffee!

:blink: :blink: :blink:

[Ham]

You know, if the "baby" is turning the bathwater sixteen shades of green and black, it probably wasn't a baby one was washing to begin with..

[excathedra]

i really like your screen name, handle thingy, "rosestoyou" very nice

[doojable]

Hey Roses to you,

I don't really like the "throw the baby out with the bathwater" analogy myself. It assumes that "baby" and "bathwater" can be separated.

If you could make a "baby solution" (like a "baby tea") I think the analogy would be closer - (but that's gross - isn't it? )

The trouble is that the in terms of doctrine the baby actually became the bathwater.

This analogy is getting murkier and murkier. I have to throw it all out...

I went back to scratch. I started the same way I questioned things just before finding a twig. I asked myself these three questions:

Do I believe in God? (Yes)

Do I believe in Jesus Christ? (Yes)

Do I believe that TWI's teachings are accurate? (Don't know - have to figure that out.)

I originally asked myself if I believed that what the Catholic church taught was accurate - the answer to that was, "No."

Sorting through what we were taught takes time and patience and prayer. I wanted a relationship with God and His son - not the Bible. I found that as long as I studied to the point of exhaustion, I stayed stuck in my ability to figure it all out - (as if I could figure out God to begin with... )

Now I pray. I live love as much as I can. I expect miracles and I try to be someone that can be trusted.

[rosestoyou]

i really like your screen name, handle thingy, "rosestoyou" very nice

Thank you!

[GarthP2000]

Put the baby up for adoption – use bathwater to make coffee for the Twig.

Ya know, there are those of us who like *quality* in our coffee. :P Plus I don't think that the American Association of Coffee Producers would appreciate you offering that as a ((cough)) 'alternative' as coffee.

[Cynic]

Sometimes the baby is worse than the bathwater.

[Ham]

Hmm. Baby worse than the bathwater..

forget six shades of blue and black..

if the water is a dark brown, it is very likely that an individual was not washing a genuine "baby"..

If it floats, perhaps it's a baby. If it sinks, well..

"Mister, you can cuddle it, dress it, try to feed it.. but that isn't any baby you've got there.."

sorry, carry on..

:)

[TheEvan]

Some excellent replies.

What I mean by that is, toss it out, toss it all out. Then reconstruct what you believe from sources outside TWI. If what TWI taught you was the truth, you will then run across it and document it from other sources that are NOT CONTAMINATED by TWI

Yep. "Consider the source" is all important, and a thing taught in the scriptures. VeePee's twisted "I'm thankful for truth even if it came from the devil himself" sounds logical, I suppose. But it's been the ruin of many a poor boy. Er, make that 'many a poor girl'.

"Beware the leaven..."

"A little leaven..."

There are plenty of great (and morally upright) sources out there waiting for you.

[Larry N Moore]

Why throw the baby out with the dirty bathwater? Does this mean I'm still brainwashed???

rosestoyou.

Your analogy is one I've heard before -- along with the one about "Chew on the meat and spit out the bones."

If the "baby" is dead (doesn't work for or make sense to you) then toss it out. It's only then that you'll be able to fit anything else into the bathtub. But if the baby is still "alive" (works for or makes sense to you) then you would be foolish to abandon something that helps you through life. TWI isn't the only organization that claims to have a "baby." You can still take the "baby" to those other organizations if mutual support of and/or praising the "baby" is what you're looking for. And some may see the "baby" and want to help you nurture it also.

Bottom line -- do what you feel comfortable and right about and don't worry about what others think. They don't have to walk in your shoes.

[JustSayNO]

Bath water = ok, I get it. Dirty, bad, get rid of it

Baby- Was he implying the Way was the baby - OMG - I trow not- dat was no baby then

or was the baby the Word and the bath water the Way, either way the Way is out.

either way your better off starting from scratch instead of being concerned with: was that True or was that a Wayism?

Edited August 5, 2007 by JustSayNO