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We got private interpretation in the process. HINT: I won't mention any names, but his initials are Saint Vic

How I feel, too. If anything, I feel sorrow that they care(d) so little. Whether still the same, I don't care to find out. And I feel anger at the abuse so many suffered in so many ways. But my focus is not backwards but forwards. People are still being abused in similar ways, and in other ways, and I prefer to draw on my own experiences of abuse to relate better to others I reach out to help. I can empathise so much better. Some might call that making lemonade from the lemons.

OldSkool wrote: For me, my entire perspective changed on everything in life when I realized that Christ wasn't absent and that he can be a very interactive Lord with each individual in his body, depending on relationship. Recently, when my heart's perspective does begin to shift from an absent Christ to a present Christ, I find I become very emotional. It’s like something inside me wants me to experience these truths (not just think of them) but the strong reaction I feel is so intense that I shut down. The reason for this is most likely past childhood trauma which led to a lifetime of self-loathing and feelings of unworthiness. I have tried (and failed) many times to deal with these through counseling, self-help books and my involvement in the way. I feel now however that it is something Jesus is going to have do for me. So this is where I’m at right now – talking to him.

WordWolf wrote: vpw was unable to teach us about a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus The first time I went to a fellowship at the Vineyard church in my city, their worship team of musicians and singers sang “Holy and Anointed One.” Most of the people there sang along with their eyes closed, their hands lifted up and their faces showing their love for Jesus. I found myself not even being able to mouth the words without crying my eyes out. Never had I sang a song “to” Jesus before – only about him. I knew the tears were coming from a deep (but buried) longing to experience his love. I have tried to copy and paste the website for this song but it doesn’t come up when you click on it. If, however, you want to google “holy and anointed song” and pick the shortest version, you can hear it. If you do, can you imagine vp doing the same as the believers did in that fellowship (eyes closed, hands lifted up, face showing a love for Jesus)? Impossible. He would never humble himself enough to do so.

T-Bone wrote: “God NEVER intended for Jesus to be worshipped as an idol.” chapter and verse please... T-Bone wrote: “God NEVER intended for Jesus to be worshipped as an idol.” chapter and verse please... For me, the teaching that Jesus Christ is not God tied in with how Christ eventually became absent in my life. In the past, I had observed how trinity-believing Christians used each name (Jesus and God) interchangeably in their teachings and prayers (often within the same sentence). They gave God and Jesus the same amount of recognition and adoration. When I stopped believing in the deity of Christ while in the way, these believers became “idolaters” who were breaking God’s commandment of having no other gods before Him (Deut 5:7). Since I didn’t want to be an idolater like them (no way, no how), I began to prioritize God above Jesus in my spiritual life. Over time, this exalting of God and demoting of Jesus led to having the absent Christ. After that, when I would read verses like Col 2:6,7 “Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him, 7having been firmly rooted and now are being built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, overflowing with thankfulness,” I gave mental assent to them only – yeah, yeah, yeah. It's apparent to me now how insidiously the adversary worked within the way ministry to negate verses like these which clearly declare the importance of Jesus in our lives right now.

Finished up the Cults class teaching on Heavens Gate. The impact that had on me was that the tactics were similar to other cults isolating people into a small group for control purposes. However this one really brought home the impact of remaining isolated in a group like that for an extended period of time. Like the Stanford prison experiment which had guards turned into gestapo tyrants inside of 3 days, this group drifted further and further off course directed by two people, which eventually ended in mass suicide. The battle is real folks for your mind and the freedom of your mind.

Right. The section where Jesus says “who is my brother” in response to a belittling message from family downplaying his mission and request he come home likely to help out with the family business, carpentry. Like Mike under pressure, their warped minds grasp at the nearest scripture for the purpose of justifying their immoral decisions and actions which are anti Christ.

MY GOSH! Who knew? (*_*) And all this time I thought The Bible Intreprets Itself was a memory peg!!! Say it aint so!!!!! AHHHH!!!!

I knew the guy vaguely he lived in Manhattan his first name began with a "V". It was shocking to hear about this death, such a young guy, and many of us had no idea he was sick. I hope he is rewarded in eternity for having faith that God would heal him, although that didn't work in that instance. But as bad as that was, it can't be compared to parents who withhold insulin from their kid.

"Every good boy deserves favor" is a mnemonic. SCUBA is a mnemonic. The ABC song is a mnemonic. ROY G. BIV is a mnemonic. "The Bible Interprets Itself"...not a mnemonic.

No he didn't. He stole the concept from Bullinge's How to Enjoy Reading the Bible. It's not figurative the way Bullinger used it and it wasn't figurative when wierwille presented it and it's not figurative with twi still teaching it the same way to this day. Your moving your own boundaries cause you got caught contradicting yourself yet again.

Why? if you imitate victor and stand on his shoulders, how will you avoid his private interpretation?

It did NOT occur to those buzzards. Please remember that there are people who think that religious conviction and scientific knowledge are antithetical to each other, and will scorn whichever they have not chosen. So, there's religious people who shun basic science, and science believers who shun religious belief in conventional forms (even if their own beliefs include leaps of faith while condemning others for making leaps of faith.) People like that nowadays can make Christians look bad, unintelligent, and anti-intellectual. Too bad they don't know enough history of science to know how many Christians were out there, inventing science that we now take for granted. Sir Isaac Newton wrote and, in effect, invented Calculus and wrote on gravity and many other things, and wrote considerably on the Bible as well. Gregor Mendel can be considered "the father of genetics"- he performed experiments in a monastery because he was a monk. It's only the last 2 centuries that this antagonism between Christianity and science has been able to find any ground- on either side of the divide.

Good points. vpw was unable to teach us about a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus. Why? Here's a few reasons. 1) vpw didn't view relationships or people like we do- he viewed them as resources. So, actual relationships with caring- as opposed to business relationships - were beyond him. 2) vpw largely faked his way through the ministry. He learned the proper gestures and mannerisms, how to bow his head in prayer and so on. he learned to deliver speeches in a convincing manner. He learned how to cut corners by taking the work of others and presenting it as his own, either in written form or as a preacher, preaching someone else's work as his own. He picked the soft options in school and skipped church history and languages (that's why his grasp of Bible languages was so weak.) So, he learned to parrot back the works of others. The deeper matters- unless he had someone to directly quote- were not things he could speak on, so he avoided them. 3) vpw didn't want us to have a relationship with Jesus. vpw wanted us to have a business relationship with him and twi, where he sells the things of God, the prayers, the classes, etc, and everyone else pays tuition, tithes, etc. Not convinced? Ok, answer this: how many denominations or church groups out there teach to consistently give MORE than the tithe? vpw taught it and gave it a name- "abundant sharing." Followup question: how many denominations or church groups out there teach that you can separate what money you need to live on right now, and should give all of the rest to the church? vpw taught that, and gave it a name- "plurality giving." For that matter, he made the tithe a mandatory 10% and a necessity, where the Bible says we are NOT supposed to give "of necessity"- which means, once again, vpw taught the opposite of the Bible on a subject.

II Peter 1:19,20,21 (KJV) 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. =========================================== How many decades ago were we discussing how vpw's explanation of these verses were completely wrong? vpw said that 1:20 was warning us not to "privately interpret" the verses of the Bible- while doing exactly that with that verse. These verses explain the ORIGIN of Scripture. It's a more sure word of prophecy that wasn't of someone's "letting-loose" (to use a familiar phrase), nor by the will of man long ago, but rather the result of holy men of God who spoke as directed by The Holy Ghost. This "one's own letting-loose" thing meaning how to avoid approaching the Bible, that was an elementary mistake that, as often happened, was the result of elevating the wording of the 1611 King James Version over the texts from which it came. Often, vpw came out with a lengthy explanation with rambling analogies, all stemming from the exact phrasing in the King James Version. However, when one goes back to the texts- Stephens, Nestle, etc, one finds nothing of the kind. vpw got hung up on the exact phrasing of the King James Version as if it was AUTHORITATIVE in its exact phrasing, rather than a translation of texts more authoritative than itself. So, to avoid "one's own private interpretation" as referred to in I Peter 1:20, don't try to write something by your will and claim it's Scripture. (BTW, trying to write something by God's Will and claim it's Scripture is self-defeating, so don't try that, either.)

As a long time type 1 diabetic, I find the article absolutely horrifying, repulsive, tragic, and enraging. Has it ever occurred to these buzzards that God may have inspired the scientists who did the research to develop insulin? I wish I could feed them to the crocodiles one bite at a time. Those sons of bytches! May God have mercy on them. I could not!

If you're in Hawaii this PI will find Skip. And he knows what you're thinking and why you're wrong.