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Those of us who exited twi, AND have now done extensive background research on the cult (as opposed to being carried away by youthful groupthink and peer pressure).....maintain strong convictions of the manipulation and exploitation from the cult. It is my belief that most will recognize the early warning signs of an abusive relationship, sound the alarm for others and stay away. Many of us were deeply entrenched in the programs and networking of this cult. Whether it was WOW, Fellow Laborers, or Way Corps.....we saw the underpinnings that were non-Christian or pseudo-Christian, at best. The higher up the hierarchy, the more Pharisaic the cult's colors show thru. And, when wierwille enters the spotlight of Scriptural scrutiny, the drunkenness, serial plagiarism, bullying, striker, sexual predation, misogynic undertones, etc.....put him in the category of a man of the flesh. While there are still some who idolize wierwille, and post on GSC......their drumbeating of "this great man" is falling on deaf ears. As adults, we've moved on to the weightier matters of Scriptural integrity....or pursuits in life, career and family that give fulfillment. We see thru twi's deceptive scam that is played on the youth. We stay true to our own personal convictions and a core of GSC-posters stay committed to warning others of this evil that lurks near the flock of God. God bless. Happy New Year 2023.

I came across this article by John Jeudes and thought I would pass it along for discussion. https://cloud.disroot.org/s/dq9wTyr3bEDJLof

I'm not trying to have a conversation with Mike, even if that's what it looks like. I am telling my story. My story is not meaningless, though a conversion with Mike is beyond meaningless, as you so accurately point out. victor paul wierwille and the family of sycophants I married into destroyed my life. I'm simply putting it all down on the page. One of the main reasons I come here is to sort it all out. To write it all out. Mike can be a foil, but I have never pretended to be able to persuade him. I am not arguing with him, nor have I. When I first came to GSC several years ago, I thought it was a pro-TWI forum. I don't remember what thread it was, but it didn't resonate with me. It might have been an incoherent rambling of Mike's. But I had questions. So, I remained in the dark for years before I came back. Mike's bullshonta and delusions and deceptions cannot stand. I am not arguing or conversing with him. The truth I am telling will resonate with someone else who is trying to sort it out for themselves. The truth I am telling will rise above Mike's deception.

https://ses.edu/logical-fallacies-101-appeal-to-authority-ad-verecundiam/

I mean as a rhetorical question it is one I’ve asked myself regarding what is the impact. Thx for clarifying.

I see. I look at Messiah Lutherans local outreach page. I see they let the Girl Scouts use the building they pay for. I see they host a fair. I see they distribute videos of Jesus life door to door. Then I contrast the job descriptions of volunteer assignments in the Way. One witnesses Christ. The other a class. One helps the community. The other isolates members from the community. One plants good seed. The other plants faux trees.

Well, for Oldskool, me taking the time to respond to his posts has resulted in pee-wee herman type name calling that just confuses the h3ll out of what being discussed. For me it typically goes like this... 1) I respond to troll bait in a somewhat intellegint and hopefully intelligible manner 2) Mike adds a fresh layer of bullshonta 3) I respond to bullshonta with freshly pushed buttons and wind up in a "I know you are but what am I " type conversation 1.1) I respond to troll bait in a somewhat intellegint and hopefully intelligible manner 2.2) Mike adds a fresh layer of bullshonta 3.3) I respond to bullshonta with freshly pushed buttons and wind up in a "I know you are but what am I " type conversation and so on...and the end result is forum boards that are barely intelligible and topics are grossly mischaracterized and confused. Mike takes a Colombo approach. He is obviously intelligent enough to act as though he is both smarter and dumber than he actually is and he uses that to derail...thats painfully obvious.

Now, time for football. See you in 2023

Juedes' videos on YouTube were essential for me when I discovered them. I don't know what his religious theological position is, but it doesn't matter, because he doesn't let it get in the way of the dismantling of victor paul wierwille's bullshonta. I just don't like listening to his voice, though his content is accurate and important. I can't listen to victor's voice, either. It grates.

Thanks guys….. life is good, all is well. It’s good to see GSC continuing to sound the alarm as we move into the 2023 new year. Even though twi tries to guilt advanced class grads and corps to *come back to leadership roles*…. that horse don’t ride anymore. GSC’s impact has traveled FAR and WIDE. All who’ve contributed to this effort….I raise my glass in salute to you. We are on the right side of this, while twi hides in the shadows of evil.

Linder and I had a number of exchanges regarding numerous incidents. Some things he said still bug me. When a corps guy gropped my wife, Linder said I gave her too much independence. Sorry for the derail, Lomax had that cold stare and robotic enthusiasm about da Verd and vpw "putting it all together". Plagiarism was Gawd's will.

To be clear I am going into this study assuming from previous studies that Darby was the main catalyst for many modern day fundamentalist/occultic doctrines that eventuall spawned degree mills and led to hucksters like victor paul wierwille, with wierwille being pretty much a minion of more influential people in this movement. We shall see if my assumptions remain correct and what changes based on objective evidence. I have been studying John Nelson Darby for some time now and have decided to kick my studies up a notch. So while searching around the internet this morning I came across a book that so far has proven to be the most exhaustive. To be clear where my position is at the moment: A) I no longer believe in any form of dispensationalism/administrations in scripture. B) I still do believe in a pre-trib rapture based on 1 Corinthian 15 and 2 Thessalonians 2 being quite clear on the subject. We shall see where I land on point B after I get through this book, which is titled: A Critical Examination of the Ecclesiology of John Nelson Darby By Matthew Austin Clarke and it is: A thesis submitted to the University of Gloucestershire in accordance with the requirements of the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in the Faculty of Humanities. (so it is scholarly in nature) https://eprints.glos.ac.uk/3192/1/545745_Redacted.pdf

Darby advocated an unique doctrine known as the 'ruin of the church', by which he meant that the visible unity of the church had been permanently lost and there were no longer any bodies in existence which could claim to be true churches. This crisis ecc1esiology sets his views apart from all other ecclesiologies and this in itself is a reason why Darby's ecc1esiology needs to be re-visited by scholars. --- A Critical Examination of the Ecclesiology of John Nelson Darby By Matthew Austin Clarke page 35 So is Darby where wierwille got the idea that the church was in ruins? If the true Church, the body of Christ is in ruins then it implies that Jesus Christ let it happen as the head of the Body -- an obvious fallacy but one that supports an absent Christ and makes room for hucksters like wierwille to come marching in to straighten it all out. Its really the Hegellian Dialectic in play. Present a manufactured or fake crisis, then present the manufactured or intended outcome to said false crisis.

Rocky, thanks for the recommendation and what you shared! You always bring great ‘thought-food’ to the table! You touch on some relevant subtopics and tangents too: Genuine relationships vs contrived ones in the social dynamics of a cult Developing a life-transforming relationship with Jesus Christ instead of being encased in the concrete ideology of a dead idol (wierwille). Becoming self-aware. Your actual-self (YOUR preferences, goals, desires, talents, etc.) vs your adaptive-self (what you think and do to survive in a cult). Being true to yourself.

I probably didn't state my point very well. What I mean is that, when commenting on J.J's writings, the focus should be on what he wrote and not who wrote it. If's it's accurate, it shouldn't matter who said it or whether he is an insider or an outsider..

For the points, A and B, administrations and rapture. There are two main covenants clearly in the scripture, the old and the new. The revelation of Jesus Christ is something a lot more personal than some kind of world event.

Thanks Rocky, Bolsh, Nathan_Jr....I gotta say that when the shoe fits. I mean at the end of the day when a persons questions remained unanswered it was not uncommon to let people know that Dr. knows best because he is a Dr. Kinda gets back to the idea that A - experts know best B - You are not an expert so you cant refute what they know C - experts know best Quoting John Jeudes who ties this concept straight back to wierille.... https://cloud.disroot.org/s/dq9wTyr3bEDJLof From Wierwilles Way with the Word - by John Jeudes Victor Paul Wierwille is the founder and president of The Way Inter- national. Although The Way acknowledges that new light may change its present teaching, it now considers Dr. Wierwille to be authoritative and infallible in dividing God’s Word. Wierwille is venerated for his four decades of “Biblical research and teaching.” His followers credit him with teaching “the depth, solidity and dynamic of the greatness of the Word of God” in the foundation class of The Way, called Power for Abundant Living.1 To support his doctrine, Wierwille claims that one day in 1942 God the Father spoke to him audibly, He said He would teach me the Word as it had not been known since the first century if I would teach it to others.2 He now claims that his “tape and film classes are taught according to the accuracy of God’s Word.”3 The group enthusiastically calls him “Dr.” although the biographical front matter in his books typically stop short of citing the source of this degree, which is Pikes Peak Bible Seminary, a “reputed degree mill.”

I think thats legit. When you attach "spiritual" to whatever and set that us vs them mentality with the "household vs The World" scenario it pretty much turns into fantasy land. HQ is definately an alternate reality. One that newcomers usually hate the first several months as they are harassed into compliance on all the dip$hit unwritten traditions around that place. On the field people are slowly indoctrinated into "the household" slowly via conferred status as they bag the next class and eventually start signing up for whatever the outreach program du' juor is at the moment. I think the "renewing your mind" schtik is telling a person to accept that their boundaries have been erased or at the very least moved and they need to accept it.

Nathan, you could group your posts together and post in My Story if you wish; add more info, too. It's a non-contentious forum (usually!) that elicits much sympathy.

You don't have to respond to him or take his bait. I hope you can focus on telling your story.

Why the concern over a pseudo-Christian harmful and controlling cult like The Way International? The relevance has to do with those still involved with TWI. There’s always the chance that some folks inside have questions, doubts, concerns, issues and something they read on Grease Spot Cafe will resonate with them…or help resolve a mystery of something they’ve suspected for a while. I start threads like this as a preemptive strike - prompted by the clearly imminent danger of certain posters who seem to enjoy generating white noise in an attempt to mask the treacherous nature of wierwille-doctrine / PFAL / TWI...I think most sensible people can make their way through such nonsense to figure out what's what. It seems to me wierwille-defenders and pro-PFAL posters want to dicker over the ‘good’ from wierwille / PFAL as far as the biblical content and / or the blessings people have received from wierwille / PFAL. These supposed benefits can be easily debunked by properly analyzing teachings to expose the Scripture twisting and logical fallacies. Harry G. Frankfurt in his little book “On Bull$hit” , said lying and bluffing are similar modes of misrepresentation or deception and that the essence of bull$hit is not that it is ALL false but that it is phony. What is WRONG with counterfeit money - no matter how close it mimics real money - is NOT what iI is like but HOW it is made. That is crucial for several reasons…note some of the forgery methods used to prop up a facade of Christianity and respectability: > wierwille’s fake doctorate > I doubt some of wierwille’s past associations listed on TWI’s website, since certain scholars and theologians on the list are miles apart theologically from wierwille’s doctrines. Perhaps wierwille was just a name-dropper. >wierwille’s claim of taking everything Moody correspondence school had to offer - see the letter from Moody correspondence that shows he lied. See. Here > Letter from Moody Correspondence school > it should not be assumed the works he plagiarized are the gold standard. There are problems in those works too - and there’s wierwille mangling up some good content and some bad stuff - which through his incompetence and depraved agenda he managed to make even worse > wierwille’s claim of God audibly giving him an assignment to teach others “the Word” which had not been known since the 1st century. A ridiculous claim at that which has been discredited in several ways on many threads - by folks who are internet savvy, street smart to scams and have a vast amount of resources for Bible study - I think one would be hard pressed to find a lot of gullible people to fall for the God’s chosen messenger con. The ideal cult-candidate is usually young and naive. ~ ~ ~ ~ And claiming all the thousands already blessed by wierwille / PFAL doesn’t amount to squat without hard proof…it’s obviously a desperate sales tactic ~ ~ ~ ~ A parasite is a good description of a pseudo-Christian harmful and controlling cult like The Way International… TWI is an organization run by exploitative people. The organization survives by exploiting followers. There is a ‘commerce’ - an interchange of goods…commodities…resources…money…services…something of value (whether perceived or genuine) between HQ and followers. Followers give of their time, money, resources, talents, labor in exchange for something of no value = wierwille's twisted dogmatic fundamentalism / spiritualism / Gnosticism wierwille was a pontificating pathological liar...plagiarist, drunkard, sexual predator, megalomaniac, malignant narcissist, chain-smoking, calloused voracious wolf in sheep’s clothing ~ ~ ~ ~ Imagine if you were a skilled artisan and someone comes into your shop and pays you $20,000 cash for a handcrafted item that took you years to create. You go to the bank to deposit the cash - and the bank teller and bank manager inform you that the money is counterfeit and must be reported to the local police department and / or U.S. Secret Service field office and the phony money is to be tabulated per government protocols and surrendered to a properly identified police officer or government agent…how would you feel about that? It’s like that with how followers are exploited…ripped off by TWI. People give their hard-earned money, time, labor and the most valuable thing of all - their allegiance- in exchange for something counterfeit - the twisted ideology and practices of wierwille. ~ ~ ~ ~ wierwille / PFAL the challenging counterfeit to the Lord Jesus Christ, truth, the Bible, the body of Christ I don’t negotiate with delusional wierwille-fans. The only thing worth saving out of wierwille-doctrine/ PFAL are the people who are swindled by it. That’s all for now , folks

Maybe you will someday soon see some lightening of that tension as TWI-4 gets the word out that what happened long ago should not color today's attitudes.

No contact mainly applies to my ex-wife. It's challenging because we have a child together. No contact also applies to her victor-worshipping family because they lack in depth awareness and perception. They magnify her narcissism because they lack discernment. Again, they choose not to go beyond what they were taught, so they walk in their own destructive blindness.

It's not knowing that you know that you know. Just an adopted narrative that feels good. Otherwise that knowledge would move on its own steam.

There's this place neat here you can go throw axes at stuff. You know. . . . To unwind.

I can't find the video of Loy's anointing by that charlatan, but when I do, I'll post it. In the meantime, scratch your itch to watch the depths of human depravity and delusion here:

I'll need to renew my mind to remember where I saw it. It's probably on YouTube. I'll look. It's simultaneously hilarious and depraved. A special type of wicked pretentiousness. I'm shivering just thinking about it...

"Doctor" was to make people think he knew stuff about things. People followed as an appeal to authority?

Well, I cant say but I can say since ive stopped worrying about mike im already enjoying my time here again...lol

Will fine point pens be replaced by some sort of hyperlinks on ebooks? How do I virtue signal my spirituality without rewriting a whole book in the margins?

Wow. This 2017-2019 thread... is virtually word for word on the new late 2022 threads "Wierwille's Doctorate" and "Dr's Last Teaching." Everybody just says the same thing. I re-read the first 7 pages (of 24) on this thread - nothing new for or from anybody. You could say we're all consistent in what we now think.

Rocky, he probably doesn't know either.