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And don't forget that it is GOD who is righteous. That is where the right comes from. . . . it is often paradoxical to what we think right should be. Satan hates all that is holy and good. . . . the bible says God hates evil. . . there is a difference. . . one is evil the other righteous or right.

In question to how can God hate. Is where I tried to explain my thoughts on love. Hate is not an action such as love. It is a feeling. An emotion. And while that emotion can turn to an action, it is not in of itself. Whereas the love, agape specifically, is not like the English word love, but rather is defined by God in 1 Cor 13 as action, call it charity, rather than an emotion or a feeling, such as hate. Thus it's like comparing an apple with an orange. A feeling/emotion with an action... God can love and hate. He can love and dislike. He can love, and embrace.

The woman was quickly found to be a fraud, she was not an Obama townhall but at another. She was stupid to think she wouldn't get caught, and there is no evidence she was working for anyone but her misguided self or some wacko group. I am not aware heath care will be trashed. It's pretty trashed for many people right now! There is NO public option (like the UK or Canada have) planned. If health insurance is not reformed, mega rich insurance companies will continue to deny care, deny claims and bankrupt Americans who actually have health insurance, and they will continue to deny coverage for those with pre-existing conditions. Health insurance companies don't want reform. it will cut into their profits. They have big dollars for lobbying to make their influence known. You must have great, secure health insurance, Roy.

By the way, Although I don't believe God can hate like the devil, I do believe that God can, and does feel utter contempt for people at times,(or perhaps just for the things they do?) and for the devil and his army. I say this from my own personal experience. Hate is too strong a word to use for certain people and the way I have felt about them, and I know I could never feel the pure hate of the devil. I've certainly seen a few people pass in my life that I thought the world was a better place without, and couldn't muster any tears for them. But I've also felt utter contempt, which is far from hate, but it is a intense dislike, and lack of respect. Just throwing that out there. Now that this thread has got me thinking. Well now I'm comparing how I feel to how I think God should feel and that isn't right either. Sigh. *edited because I don't know how to work the edit feature.

First of all, I don't know about "Touched by an Angel." It's been a long, long time since I've seen that show. Having said that, you may wish to recall the prophecy from Ezekiel 28: Eze 28:12 "Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, carnelian, topaz, and jasper, chrysolite, beryl, and onyx, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald; and wrought in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. Eze 28:14 With an anointed guardian cherub I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. Eze 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. Eze 28:16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and the guardian cherub drove you out from the midst of the stones of fire. Eze 28:17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. Eze 28:18 By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries; so I brought forth fire from the midst of you; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you. Eze 28:19 All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more for ever." We must remember that God is love (1 John 4:8) -- so I would submit that, other than a condescension made to help primitive man understand, God is organically incapable of hate. If He is capable of hate, then God could not be described as "love." Lucifer is a created being and all that God created was good (1 Tim 4:4). The passage above analogizes Lucifer's state in the beginning, at the moment of his creation. So it would be safe to say that God loved Satan at the time. Consider this: For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of peace shall not be removed, says the LORD, who has compassion on you. (Isa 54:10) The context of this verse, of course, is to Noah after the flood; but it goes to show that God is faithful: if one considers all of the evil perpetrated by man since the flood, it would take tremendous longsuffering to not repent of that decision. So I don't see that God would change His mind about Lucifer, even considering the rebellion that Lucifer committed. But it's also obvious that God recognized from the beginning that Lucifer would do what he did. After all, He's had the lake of fire waiting for a while (Mat 25:41: Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;). Angels aren't known for saying they're sorry and amending their ways, either (be they angels of God or the devil and his minions. As St John of Damscus said about 1,300 years ago: "what in the case of man is death is a fall in the case of angels. For after the fall there is no possibility of repentance for them, just as after death there is for men no repentance." So do I think that God loves Satan? Yes. God is Love. Do I think that God is trying to get Satan to repent? No. The ability for regret and contrition is a grace given to man, not one given to angels. Do I think that God regrets having created Satan? God knew from the beginning what would happen and if he would repent of it, he wouldn't have created those angels to begin with. Do I think that in the real world, a matronly Della Reeves type angel would say, "God loves you too" to Satan? No. There is absolutely no indication of such behavior by the Lord or any of the Angels in the real world. Such a statement might be made to a really bad man...such a statement might be made to a man who was possessed by the Devil...but a physical manifestation of the Devil? No, because such a statement would imply that the receiver could be softened or made to feel sorrow, which neither an angel nor a demon is capable of. In my opinion. For what it's worth.

The beatitudes are antithetical to worldly wisdom. You seem to have answered your own question here. . . . and very well too. "I think the idea of loving satan can be very dangerous, to the point of being passive towards evil." Scripture does not directly address your question about Satan, but the answer is found in understanding the attributes and character of God. . . . as best as we are able. Because God is love does that mean he cannot hate evil? For You are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil cannot lodge with You. The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all evildoers. Psalm 5:4,5 You seem to understand the issues with the line of reasoning you are examining. . . . What might be helpful for you is to start reading some good apologetics or even invest in an apologetics bible. The Apologetics Study Bible is really a good tool. . . it is the Holman Christian Standard version. It addresses many of the issues that come up when post modern thinking is applied to biblical interpretation.

Anyone from Family 20-22 at Indiana campus from 95-97. Sure were some crazy and confusing times. Who like to hear how people are moving on with life. Our family left twi August 1,2002. Thankful to have seen the light of twi wicked ways. Still loving God and doing His Word.

I just got a note from a friend who said that the CES office is moving out of Indianapolis. Anyone know why?

Nothing that happens to you, matters very much, or lasts very long; but the way you take it, matters a lot, and will last forever

Breaking news from an Innie friend: Great new announcement for followers of The Way: The in-residence Way Corps had the privilege of taking a witnessing and undershepherding class taught by Rev Chavisty. Now on the field, all foundational class grads can take it free of charge. It is a 3 hour class with a break for lunch and 1 hour of witnessing. In addition, there is a new class coming out next year, "The Renewed Mind, Your Key to Power." Dress it up anyway you want, looks a way to get more people and more money. Way disciple and Way Corps numbers are down. Faithful grads are not into witnessing, and lots of fellowships have seen no growth. Classes are hard to run, even though a small branch can run a class with only 3 new people and a medium-sized branch with only 5 new people. What a far cry from the minimum required 7 new people for PFAL - and a branch might run 2-3 classes a year! With numbers falling and income drying up, what a great plan - give people a free taste of Way Corps training. No yelling or browbeating, just a free class to get people to go witness. And once they have taken the class, why would they not want to apply it every week?

God first hi Obana I know you are the man in charge now but do you really care for me I am 49 years old and I had a stoke where I could talk right for nine days. I watch fox news and I am not a person that watches it every day. I see a fear you have of Fox news and I see the people you are around like Rev Wright a person that you say that do not follower his teaching. But I see this a cult and I know from my life you do not change over night. So I see you a man that still wants to kick me in face this is the way I see you and have a lot black friends so it not about color. I did not vote for you for this reason so if your not afraid of Fox news sit down with them before its to late. I going to end this now and wait and see if your a man or mouse. love Roy

I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank Paw for setting up this Forum. Thanks Paw. If there's anyone else in here, welcome to Greasespot Europe! If you like you could maybe post a short reply to this thread to say Hi. No pressure, you're welcome to just hang around in the background if you prefer, OK! :) Cheers, Pete

Nice topic DOT! I am enjoying it quite a bit. Whether or not an Apostle is one who brings "new light" or not has not been absolutely proven here, although there does seem to be some evidence in favor of it. Here is "my take" on this... Truly the "short definition" is SENT ONE, in the sense of an ambassador. But we have to consider what is he sent to DO? He is to SPEAK about his country. An ambassador is sent to a foreign country to impress upon them values of the nation he represents. New and different ideas are certainly involved...better ways of operating a government and serving the people, etc. Once an apostle arrives, what he speaks is what the people do not yet know or understand about God and the truth. Therefore, what an apostle imparts to them is "the LIGHT of God's Word" and it is NEW to them. In that sense is how an apostle imparts "new light". Now, as far as "gift ministries" in general are concerned, I believe TWI had veered from the truth about them from the very beginning. They seemed to imply that in order for one to receive any of these, it was best to join the Corps and then eventually become "Ordained Clergy", and (by the laying on of hands) these ministries would be imparted to the recipient. (Nice way to dangle a carrot in front of people to encourage lots of followers to SERVE the ministry by becoming Way Corps!) I went WOW (for the first time) in 1977. I distinctly remember VPW when he informed us that (through him of course!) God had sanctioned us to be as TRUE APOSTLES for our entire year of service -- and just how special we were in HIS EYES, etc! So, VPW also gave the notion that one could also have a (temporary) gift ministry. (Nice way to increase the numbers of people who would SERVE the ministry as WOW Ambassadors!) But in truth, GOD HIMSELF (through Christ) gives these ministries. And (as all gifts) they are by grace, and not by the promise of service to "some man's ministry". I do not deny however that NOBODY ever received any of these by first going in the Corps, etc. By God's grace, and knowing the true heart and intent of the individual HE IMPARTS as the people have NEED. Even in "the world", honorary degrees are available to people at times despite their lack of formal education or training in an area. And these come with all the rights and privileges as those who actually earned the PH'd by graduating from a university. Surely God also does that as well as man can! And who is to know just who has what? Such things can be discerned "spiritually" by those who can be trusted not to "compare themselves among themselves" and becoming filled with either pride or jealousy, etc. It is entirely God's business how to equip his people to serve one another in the best manner possible. One last thing in general about these gift ministries…they are first and foremost to be operated among the believers. Evangelists (for instance) work within God’s family to expound how best to build up the BELIEVERS by sharing in-depth understanding and insight concerning the “new birth”. Equipped with that info, everyone can witness more effectively to those who desire to become born again. There are a great many truths which have been “lost” over the years and are just waiting to be “rediscovered” by “Biblical Pioneers” who search the scriptures for nuggets of gold just as prospectors do. And what joy when they are found and shared with all! If it is someone’s heart’s desire to find “new things” in the Bible, just as someone in the world could desire to be an inventor, then simply try and don’t give up. Search the scriptures and enjoy doing it! Want a ministry? First show God your desire by doing what you can on your own toward that desire. If God sees you have need at times, surely He can help your endeavour to find “new light” by supplying some special “gift” to help you in your work if need be. God knows we shall “always” need more Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers among ourselves. Let us simply believe for these in our lives and do what we are able for each other with them! 1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. This verse does not necessarily imply that we believe for those who already have these gift ministries to be assigned to our area, despite how TWI would have their followers think. It only says to “desire them as you would a great treasure” so to speak. The more excellent way is “Charity”, which reminds me of a poem I wrote in 1975. I shall close with that… SOMETHING WORTH GIVING Is there something worth giving you can give to a friend? Do it now while he’s living; do not wait till the end. Though one’s mind holds all mysteries, knowledge and faith, His deeds won’t be history without love; there’s no trace. While bestowing one’s treasures to feeding the poor, He can give without measure, yet one thing is sure: Even giving his life for a great, noble cause Will profit him nothing; without God’s love it’s lost. Charity is giving God’s love to mankind, And it’s given with cheerfulness; it’s not hard to find. So study His Word and share to begin, And you’ll see that God’s charity is right there within. Whatever you do for God, do it with might! And share it with charity; fight the good fight. So give what’s worth giving; God’s keeping the score; So that now and in heaven you’ll receive your rewards. Copyright 1975 - Melliott Productions SPEC

Yeah....break-your-neck slaving for twi, alright. Go witnessing.....renew your mind.....abs 15% to twi - - - same agenda, different delivery.

Oh no, Copenhagen, we need you in that class to take notes! :P

The Mystery Train and milking a goat. and riding the shuttles, and sleeping in a tent in the West Woods.

They'd play "Good morning Lord", along with 'Beautiful Ohio", making sure no one got enough sleep. One night I worked that bridge on the main road to the parking lot,during an incredible rainstorm, 'directing' traffic and people across it after the program, where amazingly no one was killed. I was drenched and had to stay there all night before being relieved around 6 am. I stumbled into my sleeping bag, only to be met with "Good morning , Lord", and drifted off to sleep cursing the music, the humidity, the flies, the corps, and anything else I could think of.

The one thing that I remember that I still really like is that it was the place every year that I saw the Perseid Meteor showers. I didnt know about them then but every year I'd spend a night or two up all night talking to somneone or other about some deep ( ) spiritual secret (haha) and about 20 or 30 shooting stars an hour would pass by as a happy accident on the other hand --if anyone ever ever wakes me up with Beautiful Ohio blaring at 6 am ever again you best leave the planet

For me, it all started to go bad when it moved to HQ, and everything was 'controlled'. I loved the Sydney Fairgrounds, with the aged wooden structures that would never pass later 'standards', the little store a few steps from the gate, where the locals could yell at you, and the sense of genuine 'fellowship', such as joining small groups playing music, etc. I was also new to the way then, and hadn't been ground down by it's many forces yet. It was actually FUN.

Rather than "sorrow," I probably should have said "contrition." I think it would have been a bit clearer, so my apologies on that. As far as whether an angel could feel "sorrow," I am of two minds. First, I would think that angels would be surrounded by such glory that it might overshadow any grief or mourning that they would have. Take a look at Isiah 6:1-3, Ezekiel 1:22-28, Apocalypse 4. However, I would think that there would be mourning in heaven for a sinner who is lost. Jesus stated, Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance (Luke 15:7) -- I would think that there would be some variety of grieving when one goes "off the tracks" as well. But I am not 100% sure that it would be something that we, as flesh and blood, would be able to fully appreciate. Consider this: Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Isa 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Jesus was identified as the Lamb of God: Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29) If we take a look at the exalted position of the Lamb in heaven: Rev 5:6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth; Rev 5:7 and he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; Rev 5:9 and they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, Rev 5:10 and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth." Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!" Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!" Rev 5:14 And the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped. One can't help to wonder at their reaction as the Lamb was smitten for our sins. Was it some type of sorrow or mourning or grieving or would it have been some sort of righteous anger? Or just a pause and gasp from the joy? Or something else altogether? Compare this to the reaction to the martyrs who were calling for vengeance: Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; Rev 6:10 they cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?" Rev 6:11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. They were basically told to be patient. A very non-emotional type of response -- one that is very difficult for those of us with blood pumping in our veins to understand. And that's my point: I am not sure we would really be able to understand what spiritual beings "feel." Nor will we be able to understand what we will "feel," once our corruption has put on incorruption.

don't be too hard on your self when you meet him

The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 ) Sounds like an action to me. Does it stand to reason that because God is love. . . . he would purely hate evil? Would that be wrong? Would that make God ANY less love because He hated evil? No, not at all. How could it? If God is all good . . . He would HAVE to hate evil. Consider what David says in Psalm 139 0 For they speak against You wickedly; Your enemies take Your name in vain. 21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies. 23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties; 24 And see if there is any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting. After he tells God he hates God's enemies with perfect hatred. . . he then asks God to search his heart!! Was David wicked for telling God he hated with perfect hatred? No. We love OUR enemies. . . . but do we love that which stands opposed to God?

Exellent points, geisha. But there has to be different meanings to the word "hate" Pure hate comes from the devil. I don't think a human can possibly comprehend that kind of hate, unless they were possessed. The way that God "hates" things has got to be different than what the devil IS.

Know that Yahweh your God is God, the faithful God who keeps His gracious covenant loyalty for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commands. But He directly pays back and destroys those who hate Him. He will not hesitate to directly pay back the one who hates Him. Deuteronomy 7: 9,10 Well, if God is like that towards men who hate him, how bad is it going to be for one who cannot repent? Does it really stand to reason that because God is love, He does not hate things? The bible says He hates things and that is just as true as that He is love. Is it really wrong to hate evil? How does that make Him any LESS loving? It doesn't . . . God's love is not tolerance for anything and everything. . . and everyone including Satan. . . not even close. God is love and God is just, Holy, Righteous, and promises to avenge evil. . . no?

Don't you think that an angel of God can feel sorrow though?

Mark: very much appreciated and very very much worth reading several times over, and getting scripture out. Thanks a bunch. :) *edited because I can't spell...again.

Part of the wonderful aroma more than likely came from the product used to "fertilize" the area -- check with staff who worked with the "honey pot" crews...

Well sorry folks. I only lived in Buckland for two years. But it did nothing to endear me to the state. Sorry, but it DOES smell bad. ESPECIALLY at The Rock, given that you're crowding thousands of people into a small space, with the GAWDAWFUL water (and, no I'm not retreating on that one iota, it's ugly, get over it), the humidity and the porta-potties, the mud, the mold and mildew, and the rotting traces of whatever that's left around. It was not a pleasant place after a day or two. But don't take it too personally. I don't think much of anyplace east of the Rockies. Why anybody would want to live where there's no scenery, the rivers are rolling mud, and the landscape is cut up into 1-square-mile sections is completely beyond my comprehension. Then throw in the oppressive humidity and you the have a recipe for my personal hell. Should there actually be such a place, rest assured that mine will look a lot like Ohio (or maybe Alabama). You CAN grow good tomatoes there, though. THAT I do miss. geo. > from ground-zero of the uppity, liberal, latte-swilling, granola-eating, God-rejecting, Gay-rights-defending, snobbish, self-important, Microsoft-working capital of the world (yes, I AM hopeless)...

Good point. I guess if you're life has no anchor points and you're grasping for straws.... It makes one wonder how many showed up at TWI versus how many became that way? Sad, in either case. JT

He has been going directly to the people for the last several days Roy Yesterdays townhall meeting in Grand Junction Colorado was over an hour of direct questions from normal people (friend and foe) that the President answered without any media telling you their interpretations. It was carried on quite a few networks The White House Website is also fairly extensive on their stances on issues if you would like to see what they have to say about it without the media filtering it for you

There's not actually a bill yet, just versions. Universal care like other countries have is not in the plans. No reform, no change, puts many Americans at risk both financially and health related. I don't get why anyone thinks no reform is a good idea.The insurance companies are not working for the American people as far as I can tell.

I guess I don't see what is so important about Fox News or why Obama needs to read it.There's plenty of news sources out there.

Not tryin' to take sides but the water at HQ really WAS nasty. It had hydrogen sulfide in it and always smelled like rotten eggs.

Sorry George, but I agree with Watered Garden. I grew up in rural Ohio, and all the slams I see here on GS about the state get really old. Inbred? Seriously? That was uncalled for. And fetid odor? You obviously no nothing about the state. You have insulted my entire family heritage, and you really owe those of us that live here an apology. Oh and as to the remark about the water, guess what? We had a natural spring, and the water tasted so good, the people from the CITIES, would come and ask if they could get a gallon or two, quite often. And one last thing. It's freaking crawdad, not crayfish!

Let me get back to you in a few days. I don't have time to give this the attention it warrants right now.

a lot of empty rooms.. yep.. may they never be filled..

I'm sorry if my answer appeared to be flippant. I certainly didn't mean it to be so. But,this question is a bit like the old question of whether or not God can make a rock that is too big for himself to lift.Anyhow, if you really want to explore this question, you first have to understand that our modern day concept of "satan" is not derived from the Bible. The Real Devil

Because they claim to be CHRISTIAN??? And. . . been there. . . done that. . . more than once.

If I remember correctly... VP was supposed to be an apostle. New light for THAT generous. Didn't actually mean it was new. Could have been lost. They left photocopied out of the definition but I suppose that's included. :) How about VP the Sequel? Evangelist - wins people for God? Uh, no. LCM drove the whole place away. Pastor - Heals God's people? 0 for 2, so far. Prophet - Man who speaks for God. Seems that one was not working either. Teacher - It's the only one left. Must be it. So I guess he was a teacher? Can the greek work for teacher also be translated "screaming and spitting incoherently?" Just curious. Seriously, I think teacher was the one mentioned at some point. Teaching the new light brought by the apostle. He also liked the number 2. He was supposed to teach and establish what VP stole... uh... revealed. VP was Moses and Loy was Joshua. JT

I have never met anyone who could believe sufficiently to remove lipstick and teeth marks from the re-used styrofoam cups, either..

Maybe what LCM really said was that he could be CEO of a fortune .500 company.

David was from Lima, but I think he joined TWI in FL. Worked at Disneyworld. WOW in ND 80-81. His sweetheart was in Phoenix the same year. Got married to her in the Fall of 81 at HQ. Think he worked on staff there as Way Builders.

Session seven Listening with a porpoise 1. What are the five steps the serpent used to deceive Eve? ANSWER Step #1 He got Eve to QUESTION the integrity of "The Word". etc., etc. (Be careful---this could happen to you.) 2. Who has power and authority over the world today? ANSWER Satan 3. Where do sickness and death come from? ANSWER Satan yada, yada, yada----

It would be interesting to see how many people could post about a meeting they were at where a leader got out of control and humiliated or verbally assaulted someone in front of everybody.

Interesting. I was at this meeting too and always had the impression the man about to share hadn't done a thing wrong. I was mortified for him, and it contributed to my fear of speaking up honestly.