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  1. Hello! I was in Ohio for most of my life, raised by my two parents who joined the way in the 70's. I was a somewhat enthusiastic "believer" until my early 20s and then I dove in - went Way Disciple after I graduated college then moved in with ministers in Syracuse, New York. I left everything behind and I was so worried that I wouldn't be okay without "God's protection." But I have to say, my life is improving. I have a master's degree, a great job, a great car, and will soon co-own a home. None of that would have been possible if I was still giving away 10%+ of my income and a
    5 points
  2. As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opi
    5 points
  3. I like to think I wouldn't have gotten involved, either. Truth is, though, it was 50 years ago. I'm not the same person now that I was then. Don't beat yourself up over decisions you made so long ago.
    4 points
  4. vpw was determined to make a profit on everything twi- related. If it cost something, he'd try to get it free, or try to get it on the cheap if that was impossible. When he filmed the pfal class, he "bought" the desk for the set, then returned it for a refund, lying and claiming something was wrong to get a refund. Run a class? It's always at someone's home, so we pay no rent, and twi peons supply all refreshments out-of-pocket. All books were charged full retail despite having been printed and bound in-house, all audio tapes were made of a truly inferior quality, a level you couldn't
    4 points
  5. VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.
    4 points
  6. And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love d
    4 points
  7. Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did. The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning. I wasn't prying, just dusting around things. But I do remember that moment very well. At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry
    4 points
  8. @Lifted Up My post in this thread is the first time I've ever let the universe know about what happened. I was in FC 18 if anyone was there or knows anyone from that time. I know the exact person who did it and her entire family is still strongly in TWI as far as I know. "Saying" those words in an internet forum to complete strangers made me reach out to my brother who is younger than me and I told him about it. All he said was he knew I've been dealt bad cards my whole life and didn't even want to talk about it. I am 6 months shy of 40 and haven't cried this much in decades, or ever
    4 points
  9. There is a small number of survivors still alive, and some have written books. Others have died in the last decade or two. There's talk of 6 million people of Jewish extraction. There are also millions more of other groups: gypsies, darker skinned people, homosexuals, disabled people - and intellectuals. Some estimate these others at about 4 million; they're often completely overlooked. Even now, the true numbers murdered by the regime are unknown. For this reason, I'm very alarmed when any bunch of people start demonizing any other group. It starts somewhere. Let's demonize ..
    4 points
  10. I recently rediscovered this site and have spent hours and hours reading your posts and your stories. Despite how many years have gone by since you wrote them and since I have been out of twi, I have been moved to tears, outrage, gratitude and sometimes laughter. Although we may not know each other personally, I feel a profound connection with you from our shared experience in twi. Thank you so much for keeping this site going all this time. My brief history with twi: started attending twig in 1973 Fairfax, CA and first took PFAL at a live class (!) at Shaver Lake, CA that summer. I was 1
    3 points
  11. Their retirement accounts, of course!
    3 points
  12. One of the most liberating things when I left TWI was the realization the Sh1t Happens.
    3 points
  13. Hi all! Wow what a trip this is here. I was marked and avoided in 1995. How many people get to say they were shunned? I became involved in 84 Little Rock AFB Ar. Was a WOW Amb and advance class survivor. They started to get a bug up their butts when I decided all the dead end jobs were dead end and wanted to go to college. The twisted justification on the Ways part was how dare I rely on education and advancement to supply my needs. Also Martindale was becoming a person who seemed far from Christ like. There was already strike one from moving to go to school.My questioning the crap coming out
    3 points
  14. After I left TWI, I realized my pre-TWI life was just as valid as during TWI. As posted above, we were taught to disavow our previous life as "old man" etc. i came to see my life a single thread, not a before and after. I reclaimed my previous life. I made a pie chart of my life with time in TWI highlighted. It's about a fifth of the pie and this point. As time goes by, the TWI section gets smaller and smaller....
    3 points
  15. Annio, very interesting topic. Thanks for posting. I just wanted to add my two cents: When I was young, and insecure, I needed a lot of attention. I think for some kids, attention is a form of security; thus it equals love. However, my mother never understood this; she was very self-absorbed. Throughout, my childhood, I felt unloved, and because of it, I was a very insecure, and unhappy person. However, one day, I realized God loves me. What a profound impact that had on me!! God, Almighty, the Creator of Heaven, and Earth, loves me. Why, I will never know; I am nothing special. I'm
    3 points
  16. That's entirely possible. However, he shows so many signs of psychopathic/sociopathic behaviour that I tend to think that his response was because we weren't people to him, we were RESOURCES. So, when we thought for ourselves and dared to disagree with him, he took that personally because he was entitled to do all our thinking for us.
    3 points
  17. Being separated physically by many miles from our families presents it’s challenges. On our minds quite often is how they are doing, what’s the latest movie they watched, how is life with the new boy friend, did they gat the package you sent? Endless little things that make our hearts grow fonder each day. When I was in the Navy in Viet Nam, without a doubt, mail call was the high light of our day. We could not wait for a letter from home or a package containing cookies or candy. A picture of our family or buddies was the absolute greatest thing. Finding out the grandparents were doing j
    3 points
  18. Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980? Of course.....twi's practices have been self-serving.....and only self-serving......for a long, long time. It didn't have to end this way (spiraling down to its doom). It seems to me, those years 1977-1979 were ripe with outreach and "Word in Culture." With musical groups and outreach......some professional athletes from the NFL and tennis were taking pfal. A professional bull-riding clow
    3 points
  19. That's why it's good to hear alternate points of view- sometimes what you don't see is more important than what you DO. In regards to the GSC: A) the regulars who post here spend a few minutes a week here. (Any spending more are socializing and that's not twi-related.) B) The vast majority of people who've posted here have moved on with their lives and don't even check in here any more. Some places consider that bad for the place. However, since the GSC is partly about helping people move on and prosper after surviving twi, we consider them SUCCESS STORIES. They moved on an
    3 points
  20. Blaming devil spirits for everything was like the Easy Button in Way World. Got cancer?...devil spirits. Depression?... devil spirits. Substance abuse?...devil spirits. . And if you don't understand something... just S.I.T. more. This need for easy answers was probably a big draw for people who were searching for meaning, myself included. But guess what, life is complex and sometimes the answers are complicated. Other times, there simply aren't any answers. Life is an endless search for answers but sometimes that's what makes the journey so exciting and rewarding. Never stop searching and que
    3 points
  21. This is not surprising. At age 80.....I would imagine that Rosalie is tired, truly tired, of keeping up daily pretenses. And, looking in her mirror.....it was time to face the reality that her aged body is not camera-ready without a lot of constant work. The daily grind of details.....who quit, who exited, and who is going to go in and do damage control. Hundreds of corps have exited since 2005. And, that 2017 exodus took a swath of "big-names" (moynihans, forts, horneys, magnellis, fredericks, etc.) many who'd been involved since the early 70s. Even for Rosa-lie.....that had to
    3 points
  22. Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time, or season. We are to do as Jesus did, in heart, soul, mind, and strength. That means: loving and obeying God. And then, loving our neighbours (=those around us, those we come into contact with). It doesn't mean: following all the ritual that Jesus followed, and much of which he poo-poo'd.
    3 points
  23. Well, I've been thinking about that... and how easily people get conned (in general) these days. So I found an intriguing essay about classic literature that contrasts with VP quite well. https://medium.com/@spencerbaum/3-reasons-why-you-should-read-more-classic-literature-in-2019-e762cb5c910c Call me Ishmael. The famous opening sentence of Moby Dick, so short and provocative, is welcoming and familiar to the 21st century reader, who is accustomed to snappy prose with short sentences and lots of white space. A few sentences later in Melville’s masterpiece we get
    3 points
  24. "The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearly a commandment in God's word) he gets a hiding. Wait till you face Jesus Christ- and your face will turn pale for rejecting what is clearly a commandment of God. I have showed you in so many ways why it's an immutable commandment of God- and scriptures, left, right and centre- I dont have any hiddent agenda unlike TWI. But if you want to analyse yourself not to do God's sabbath keeping c
    3 points
  25. I left twice. In 1982 I got married without the "blessing" of "leadership" with the added bonus of having failed to secure enough Corps sponsorship to get accepted into the 13th Corps. I got into a few arguments with the Limb Leader over various things and stopped going to Way functions. However, in my heart and mind I still believed it all and just chalked up the problems to bad leadership. Around 1990 my wife and I started considering going back. We were unaware of the turmoil that had been occurring. My oldest step son was about the right age for PFAL so we signed him up and started,
    2 points
  26. A fantasy ministry, apparently.
    2 points
  27. I still remember approaching the Advanced Class with an expectation of "spiritual enlightenment", only to be sorely disappointed with its content. It may be one of the most depressing realizations I've ever experienced.
    2 points
  28. Welcome to GSC, PAA. The love the Way showed to me was the linchpin that convinced me I had found nirvana. I was going through a very rough time in my life, when a complete stranger sat next to me at a cafe, and began talking to me. He was very kind and understanding to me. He invited me to a fellowship at his home, but Christmas break was just beginning at college, and I told him I would be going home for a month. He assured me he would contact me after the holidays were over, which he did. All (twig leafs, not sure that is the lingo today,) were very loving to me, and without a doubt, pulled
    2 points
  29. Hey, an acknowledgment that all was not well. It still is not well; "cleaning it up and it's way better now" sounds like denial of what's happened and happening. There's a lot of crises going on at the moment. Perhaps you and Friend can volunteer at a local Foodbank, or pandemic helpcentre, or join a neighbourhood help group to assist the housebound, those who aren't allowed out, those who don't have money, etc. Offer to help at some local church in its outreach to these groups. Yes - volunteer. At something that is not a TWI-event. What does Friend think about that? Ask what
    2 points
  30. Making phone contact might be good; if it gets too edgy, you can always make the excuse that there's somebody at the door or some such. If you really were friends before, then it could work out well. If they've still got links with C Geer, or G Wrenn, I'd be somewhat wary. There's a thread about Wrenn somewhere here; and plenty of words about Geer. I reconnected with my Corps sister after many years; we had a good time together and remain friends. Most of 'em I wouldn't particularly want to hang out with again. On the other hand, I hooked up initially with some ex-Wayfers and i
    2 points
  31. Hey @AC04Ohio! My husband and I both grew up in TWI and left 3 years ago at ages 26 and 28 when we became Christians. We were just talking about how thankful we are that we left TWI for actual Christianity, and that we’ve pursued stable careers in the tech industry. Welcome to the other side! The journey out can be a bit messy, so let us know if you need any support.
    2 points
  32. TLB, good for you honey!! Love is love; gay or straight.
    2 points
  33. LU, I went WOW in 1978, and vaguely remember that meeting. What did he expect when he sent out families, of two young men, and two young women?
    2 points
  34. LU, thanks for the compliment, but if I do have a "beautiful heart", it's due to God. God has rescued me, from so many potential mistakes, I have made over the years. Sexual assault is sexual assault, whether it happens as a child, or an adult. I also have access to wonderful therapists; they believe me when I talk about my childhood trauma. I have spoken to a number of female Veterans, who experienced Military Sexual Trama, (MST), while serving in various branches of the military. Interesting, many people forget men are also victims of MST. LU, years ago, a woman here at the GSC, describ
    2 points
  35. It seems that we occasionally get posters who think they have some sort of inalienable rights to things they don't. Here's some friendly reminders. 1) The GSC is a private messageboard that is open to the public. The Admins and Mods determine the rules, and have final say on all disagreements. 2) You don't have any authority to overturn their decisions. You can make a logical case for something. If they disagree, you can either drop it or refuse. 3) Picking fights with staff results in warnings, deleted posts, deleted threads, and temporary or permanent bans. 4)
    2 points
  36. First off, if you're trying to get someone to settle their differences with somebody else, shouldn't you try to get them to confront their demons, face-to-face? [This site is more about all the survivors OF those who held the microphone. Those who held the microphone have had plenty of chances to speak up. The GSC gave/gives a voice to those whose voice was stolen. However, the former and present leaders, as well as former and current members, are welcome to post here. People are free to use their own names as well as pseudonyms. A few of them HAVE posted here under pseudonyms.
    2 points
  37. There continues to persist the notion that the GSC is REQUIRED to be a Christian messageboard, rather than a messageboard open to all religious positions (including anti-religious positions and a-religious positions.) To require that would be a DISSERVICE to twi survivors who no longer consider themselves Christian. Some ex-twi were so scarred by twi, by vpw, by lcm, by JAL, by CG, by rfr, that the flee Christianity completely. I disagree with their decisions, but I have sympathy for anyone who's been hurt like that. Telling them to "just suck it up" does not work, and is rather I
    2 points
  38. Such a frikkin ego trip, to say that. Though I don't remember it as "the ministry would fail" but more along the lines that "the word of God would be lost" or some such nonsense. Too long ago to be sure. When I heard whatever it was, it was a "Whaaaattttt?" moment - a red flag, really, but one of many I ignored. Immediately forgot about. But then, I had decent, giving, Christian parents as role models. My parents weren't denominational - dad went to the Anglican church, mum to the Methodist (when she could manage to). I couldn't see either of them losing their faith or their l
    2 points
  39. You are entirely right that God works in small settings. Early commandments and instructions to the fledgling people of Israel include this: Deut 7:7 7The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples and if you read the early chapters of Deuteronomy (it's well worth the re-read), it's all about staying pure and close to the heart of God, rejecting falsehoods, and taking care of those who can't look after themselves. This tiny nation was to be an example to the rest of the world and
    2 points
  40. Welcome!! Keep browsing here. That’s how I got my family out. He was brought up from birth in TWI so old habits die hard. Just realize that you escaped the cult and now you can find what you like / love/ want without the pressure of having to put “the Ministry first”! Oh I know they say Gawd First but the ministry = God =ministry and all that. take it one day at a time. You’re in the right place - keep searching for peace!
    2 points
  41. I wanted to hear more and think through a good response to what is going on before I posted something here about whose calling the shots in the Way, but this is what I think is going on: Vern's current role in the Way is similar to that of Gorbachev's in the Soviet Union. The story starts with the state of the Way in the 2000's: its still significant assets have been depreciating, and it shows. TWI has been destroying buildings and selling property that it doesn't have the resources to maintain. The Way had been creeping along, but its stagnation wasn't of any critical concern, until
    2 points
  42. Beguiled, I don't give much time to TWI. I do visit here from time to time, mainly to see if there are any new people or visitors who can be helped. I learned stuff there (including "what it is not"), and I've learned stuff in the very good church that I attend now. You may find that most of the continuing Christians who continue to post here from time to time think much the same. Can't speak for others, but I find TWI increasingly diminutive in my rear view mirror. Too much to deal with in the here and now. I know the scars and long-lasting outcomes in terms of my life, both n
    2 points
  43. Twi has evolved. When wierwille was president......he was the CEO, the Chairman of the Board, the Founder, the Teacher, the Preacher, the Researcher, the Plagiarist (oops), the Book Author, the Music and Talent Screener, the Way Corps Director and the P.T. Barnum of the Traveling Circus. No one could fire him. No one could confront him. His enablers and inner circle were loyalists to keep his secrets to his deathbed. Martindale assumed the same power.......but he did not have the same leverage over the youth as wierwille. The presidency held the power over the cult followers. A
    2 points
  44. Why do I think Rosalie and Donna cunningly set this in motion? LOL. Give Vern and John little perky titles and a micro-managed lane to run in......to stroke their egos. Yet, behind the CEO-curtain is where the power, control and money-management resides. Rosalie and Donna win the long game of power!!! 1. Vern Edwards is the president..........he oversees Sunday Service Teachings and outreach/class promotions 2. John Rupp is the chairman of the board.........he sets up board meetings and manages hqtrs staff concerns 3. Donna Martindale is the CEO.........as Chief Executiv
    2 points
  45. We know a loaded question from an "innocent" one.
    2 points
  46. *sigh* NEVER jump IMMEDIATELY to the conclusion that something is supernatural. Examine the more common, more mundane reasons FIRST. If they don't work, then you can consider that among the possibilities Why wouldn't the Jews have taken heed and flee Germany, etc? 1) A lot of them DID. There's a few big cities in the world who got a surge of Jewish immigrants at that time. 2) Hindsight is 20/20. Honestly, how likely would you consider the idea that someone would come to power over your country, take it over, declare you and yours ILLEGAL and order ever
    2 points
  47. Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991. In Undertow, Tim's name is changed to Ed.
    2 points
  48. Oh, and Waxit's source for he cut-and-paste on the Noahide Laws was from here: http://www.ccg.org/weblibs/study-papers/p148.html?craw=y http://www.ccg.org/english/S/a1.html Hm. Looks like Waxit's entire POV reads like this group's website, especially their Statement of Beliefs.. including judging us in keeping of New Moons and Sabbaths, and in respect of holy days.
    2 points
  49. I'm unplugged from a lot of the information overload items you mentioned there, partly for exactly that reason. They take up all your time, and do it on their terms. Technology can be a tool, but for many people it's a crutch. I've been a fan of William Shakespeare for quite some time. I've been a fan of reading a good book for quite some time. One thing I find interesting about books older than around WWII is that they're written for a FAR more selective audience. Many writers would have been shocked to think of interested laymen reading their books. I once saw someone criticize
    2 points

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