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As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opi

(Hope OK to do this; don't want the discussion to be buried in the old way tapes!) A few quotes from the Old Way Tapes thread that are on this excellent needed topic IMO, and my thankful reply: He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance. (Sorry, the belows didn't copy well) [Waysider posted: He was grooming us to extend our bounderies of acceptance.] [T-Bone posted: I agree. Wierwille’s modus operandi was in developing an undercurrent that grew stronger as one became more involved with the organization (like joining programs a

And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love d

Been there and done that. It took me working at HQ and seeing the hypocrisy and everyday meanness for me to even consider looking online. And then a couple years after that before I realized God wasn't going to "life his protection" from my life if I did. The first time I read a thread from Greasespot was when I saw a print out of it on Rosalie's desk while I was cleaning. I wasn't prying, just dusting around things. But I do remember that moment very well. At that point I was already questioning the things I saw at HQ, and it struck me as odd that the woman in charge of the ministry

@Lifted Up My post in this thread is the first time I've ever let the universe know about what happened. I was in FC 18 if anyone was there or knows anyone from that time. I know the exact person who did it and her entire family is still strongly in TWI as far as I know. "Saying" those words in an internet forum to complete strangers made me reach out to my brother who is younger than me and I told him about it. All he said was he knew I've been dealt bad cards my whole life and didn't even want to talk about it. I am 6 months shy of 40 and haven't cried this much in decades, or ever

There is a small number of survivors still alive, and some have written books. Others have died in the last decade or two. There's talk of 6 million people of Jewish extraction. There are also millions more of other groups: gypsies, darker skinned people, homosexuals, disabled people - and intellectuals. Some estimate these others at about 4 million; they're often completely overlooked. Even now, the true numbers murdered by the regime are unknown. For this reason, I'm very alarmed when any bunch of people start demonizing any other group. It starts somewhere. Let's demonize ..

I like the total of 1 comment at the very bottom of their web page. But I must say...I really like the comment. LOL

Being separated physically by many miles from our families presents it’s challenges. On our minds quite often is how they are doing, what’s the latest movie they watched, how is life with the new boy friend, did they gat the package you sent? Endless little things that make our hearts grow fonder each day. When I was in the Navy in Viet Nam, without a doubt, mail call was the high light of our day. We could not wait for a letter from home or a package containing cookies or candy. A picture of our family or buddies was the absolute greatest thing. Finding out the grandparents were doing j

Oh yeah........twi had its own hamster-wheel of justifying its doctrines and practices. Have the 2nd and 3rd generations ever heard the story of what life was like before 2000? before 1980? Of course.....twi's practices have been self-serving.....and only self-serving......for a long, long time. It didn't have to end this way (spiraling down to its doom). It seems to me, those years 1977-1979 were ripe with outreach and "Word in Culture." With musical groups and outreach......some professional athletes from the NFL and tennis were taking pfal. A professional bull-riding clow

Mornin' y'all, I was born into this ministry about 21 years ago to two Way Corps(e? lol) ministers who worked at HQ from I don't know when to 2013. That means- yes, your logical inferences are correct- I had to spend my entire childhood living in f*cking New Knoxville, OH. There were, I think, only two other kids my age who were born in '98 and stayed through '13; certainly there were none whose parents were fired in '13. So I'm sure whatever poor guy they've got monitoring this has already deductively identified me- but I don't care, I've already put my name to a review on Google Maps

That's why it's good to hear alternate points of view- sometimes what you don't see is more important than what you DO. In regards to the GSC: A) the regulars who post here spend a few minutes a week here. (Any spending more are socializing and that's not twi-related.) B) The vast majority of people who've posted here have moved on with their lives and don't even check in here any more. Some places consider that bad for the place. However, since the GSC is partly about helping people move on and prosper after surviving twi, we consider them SUCCESS STORIES. They moved on an

Right. The goal of the law is to get to know Jesus, the Christ. Get to know the Man, the King, the Shepherd, the Redeemer. The goal of the law IS NOT to get to observe any specific day, or time, or season. We are to do as Jesus did, in heart, soul, mind, and strength. That means: loving and obeying God. And then, loving our neighbours (=those around us, those we come into contact with). It doesn't mean: following all the ritual that Jesus followed, and much of which he poo-poo'd.

Well, I've been thinking about that... and how easily people get conned (in general) these days. So I found an intriguing essay about classic literature that contrasts with VP quite well. https://medium.com/@spencerbaum/3-reasons-why-you-should-read-more-classic-literature-in-2019-e762cb5c910c Call me Ishmael. The famous opening sentence of Moby Dick, so short and provocative, is welcoming and familiar to the 21st century reader, who is accustomed to snappy prose with short sentences and lots of white space. A few sentences later in Melville’s masterpiece we get

"The thing though with you guys, it looks like in a clique, you are comfortable in protecting yourselves and when a new kid in the block comes is with something you don't like (which is quite clearly a commandment in God's word) he gets a hiding. Wait till you face Jesus Christ- and your face will turn pale for rejecting what is clearly a commandment of God. I have showed you in so many ways why it's an immutable commandment of God- and scriptures, left, right and centre- I dont have any hiddent agenda unlike TWI. But if you want to analyse yourself not to do God's sabbath keeping c

"Drive-By Posters"...ah, those were the days! Greasespot Cafe is one of the things that helped me to get a post-TWI life. From the early days, when I was still an innie, venting about various nonsensical Way things, to being an almost daily poster and moderator; commiserating with other posters who were getting divorced from hard-core Way cultists to eventually moving on to other things. I've had the privilege to meet 30 or 35 of you over the years at the Jack Daniels Weinie Roasts, a wedding, my Oakspear 2002 North American Tour and some of you stopping in Lincoln for a cup of coff

Yup, the millet is long gone, but the gut reaction lingers. Ugh. In case you don't know, that's an analogy for the "Word" that VPW fed us, amounting to a con of Himalayan proportions. And I should know. I've actually been to the Himalayan mountains … in May 2009. Socks, eye-witnesses willing to give their two cents are few and far between. I get "fan mail" through the Contact page on my website from former Wayfers either defending VPW and "shame on me," or from some too afraid to speak up or out due to relatives still in TWI or due to their own weariness … which I totally understand. Who

You're welcome! Yes, I have. A little early in my youth but moreso in later adulthood. I've read quite a bit about it and have some favorites in the field, although not many. Philosophy wasn't a popular term in the Way anytime I was involved (68 - 89). Philosophy is often considered antithetical to Christianity which is thought to be anti-intellectual by many. That line of thought contrasts Christianity the religion as being a set of revealed truths, a faith in a revelation that defines life with Philosophy as an inquiry into the fundamentals of life that tries to consider it

Doing the word... well, I'll be out DOING THE WORD leading my team of four Street Pastors this evening, 10pm-3am. We will be handing out warm clothing if needed, and hot drinks to rough sleepers; picking up glassware (whole and broken) to keep damaging stuff away from causing injury or becoming weapons; helping drunk people to sober up sufficiently to get a taxi home; giving out flipflops to girls whose shoes are painful by the end of the night; helping people locate friends and their hotels/bed for the night; and offering kind words to any who are in need - the lost, the lonely, the bereaved

Why were those SIX YEARS (1992-1998) so agonizing?.........not because of the good-hearted folks in Oklahoma, that's for sure. But because of twi's "mission-creep" from elitists at headquarters (cough, cough) who dogged the way corps constantly with faxes, corps teachings, reports, phone calls, verbal attacks, encroaching legalism and more......proclaiming (and further indoctrinating us) that we were the (only) faithful remnant of God's Household standing on "The Word." Yearly themes like......Living Sanctified, Crossing the Bridge into God's Prevailing Word, and the new, upcoming class seri

Welcome, Zanezim, I hope you find some good virtual camaraderie here. I did. I spent 17 years in TWI (1970-1987) and the lovely, non-manipulative people I met but don't see anymore is what I miss most about that time. Over the years, though, I've made new friends whose love is not dependent upon whether I am like-minded with them about the Bible. Relief! Cheers and happy holiday season to you and to everyone here at GSC. Penworks

Think you might need another category. Life as a whole; time in TWI; time recovering from TWI. That's a harder time to quantify. From when one leaves, to the time one stops thinking like a Wayfer, or stops startling at key jargon words that have acquired other meanings; or until one has abandoned unhealthy TWI concepts. I call the ten years post-TWI the lost years - I was there in body (even doing things that I ought to have enjoyed), but in such a state that my mind was only partly there and I was actually in a state of profound depression. I think my recovery didn't start till abou

Wayfefe

First off, if you're trying to get someone to settle their differences with somebody else, shouldn't you try to get them to confront their demons, face-to-face? [This site is more about all the survivors OF those who held the microphone. Those who held the microphone have had plenty of chances to speak up. The GSC gave/gives a voice to those whose voice was stolen. However, the former and present leaders, as well as former and current members, are welcome to post here. People are free to use their own names as well as pseudonyms. A few of them HAVE posted here under pseudonyms.

Just trying to keep up with the vendor releases. Failure to do so is what caused the gallery to disappear for awhile.

As a former lawyer, and occasionally I did a bit of work in matrimonial matters, I never really "got" abusive couple relationships and why one would keep returning to the abusive partner time after time. I knew the "theory" (if you like); but I didn't understand the gradual erosion of boundaries. "If he keeps hitting you like that - just leave!" Later, processing my experiences post-Way, ah! then I "got" it. Emotionally. Whole different picture then.

THIS. THIS. This is why I could not leave the group for so long. 1. My family went into the FC when I was just over the age limit. So, my entire family left me behind. - RELATIONSHIP WEAKENED 2. Abandoned, I had nowhere else to go, so I obeyed my parents and went WOW so that I could have some kind of support around me. WOW became my family. FAMILY RELATIONSHIP REPLACED BY TWI 3. I stayed in Las Vegas with some of the WOWs on my team afterwards - where else would I go? My family was still in FC for another 2 or 3 years. FAMILY EVEN MORE WEAKENED 4. Family was

She used to have L@hn L!nder print them out for her because for years she refused to have a computer in her office or use one at all. I started posting here to expose the things twi wants to hide. However, i always took satisfaction knowing she was reading along.

I wanted to hear more and think through a good response to what is going on before I posted something here about whose calling the shots in the Way, but this is what I think is going on: Vern's current role in the Way is similar to that of Gorbachev's in the Soviet Union. The story starts with the state of the Way in the 2000's: its still significant assets have been depreciating, and it shows. TWI has been destroying buildings and selling property that it doesn't have the resources to maintain. The Way had been creeping along, but its stagnation wasn't of any critical concern, until

Hi Beguiled, I am blown away by your openness and honesty! That’s a tough situation with your parents choosing TWI over you - I hope something works out down the road. Not that you are part of the problem – but rather you are part of the solution – because they are the ones still stuck in the rabbit hole of a bizarre mindset…There’s something so hypocritical about TWI claiming that PFAL develops more harmony in the home (as stated on the back of the green PFAL sign-up card) and yet – truth be told - many longstanding grads found themselves in ultimatum-type-situations…with the pressu

I'm wondering if she sees that the WC is so small, and numbers continue to fall, and she doesn't want to be the one left holding the parcel when the entire shebang finally collapses. Then, she can blame the ultimate failure on somebody else. I don't doubt that in leaving the Prez-ship or whatever she called herself, that she negotiated a good exit package. Rather than a regular weekly or monthly pension, maybe she negotiated a biiig lump sum, which couldn't be clawed back from any assets that will have to be distributed if TWI is wound up. You can be sure she didn't leave empty-handed,

Blaming devil spirits for everything was like the Easy Button in Way World. Got cancer?...devil spirits. Depression?... devil spirits. Substance abuse?...devil spirits. . And if you don't understand something... just S.I.T. more. This need for easy answers was probably a big draw for people who were searching for meaning, myself included. But guess what, life is complex and sometimes the answers are complicated. Other times, there simply aren't any answers. Life is an endless search for answers but sometimes that's what makes the journey so exciting and rewarding. Never stop searching and que

"Twinky said..."? No, no, no, no, no! Vern said! And Twinky says: "Yeah, riiiight...!" "Cease to be part of the problem"??? (They are the problem!") Be teachable"? (Don't make me laugh!) "See us and know we are His" (see us and run a mile, more like). Since TWI's own MO since its beginning was to be contentious, and thereby to be ... "dividing the body of Christ" I don't seen how things are going to change. What's your position statement, Vern? And where are your efforts to (re)join as "members of Christ’s Body" and fellowship with actual Christians, and even (ha!)

Here is one of DWBH's posts on John Summerville and TFI......

Hi all! Wow what a trip this is here. I was marked and avoided in 1995. How many people get to say they were shunned? I became involved in 84 Little Rock AFB Ar. Was a WOW Amb and advance class survivor. They started to get a bug up their butts when I decided all the dead end jobs were dead end and wanted to go to college. The twisted justification on the Ways part was how dare I rely on education and advancement to supply my needs. Also Martindale was becoming a person who seemed far from Christ like. There was already strike one from moving to go to school.My questioning the crap coming out

Hi everyone, although I did not disclose his name in my memoir, Undertow, Dr. Joseph Bishop was my father-in-law. I was married to Tim Bishop from 1973 to 1991. In Undertow, Tim's name is changed to Ed.

That was a crazy time. I remember in late ‘69, the US held its first draft lottery, which gave young men a random number corresponding to their birthdays. I got a really high number from the lottery and so was never drafted. I think I have something like survivor’s guilt... whenever I meet and get to talking with a Viet Nam vet – at some point I get teary eyed and choked up. The last time that happened to me was a few years ago – on vacation in Westcliffe, Colorado. I paid the check for him and his family at this little bar & grill…To all you vets and current military, thank you for your s

I'm unplugged from a lot of the information overload items you mentioned there, partly for exactly that reason. They take up all your time, and do it on their terms. Technology can be a tool, but for many people it's a crutch. I've been a fan of William Shakespeare for quite some time. I've been a fan of reading a good book for quite some time. One thing I find interesting about books older than around WWII is that they're written for a FAR more selective audience. Many writers would have been shocked to think of interested laymen reading their books. I once saw someone criticize

He didn't mention Cartels, I'd just assumed that. Had no idea Cartels were a modern innovation, thought they'd been around since forever. We're going to meet the dude again, all of us, and we're going to live together with him forever, you know, for eternity. I'm trying hard to get my head around that and learn to put the past behind. It isn't easy sometimes.

When it comes to giving descriptive terms regarding wierwille..........quite often, I gravitate to words like 1) narcissist, 2) plagiarist, 3) false prophet/teacher, 4) opportunist, 5) misogynist, 6) paranoid personality disorder, and 7) sexual predator. I do not claim to have any expertise in psychological evaluations or clinical study. Clearly, there is lots of overlap in these complex fields of psychological study. Therefore, I usually hesitate to say with any certainty that wierwille was a psychopath ..... But what I did see in wierwille's dominant character pattern was the unique

That gives me an idea for a bumper sticker: sleepwalkers are living the dream

Thanks for the link - - and here is link to the 2nd part part 2 of vpw and plagiarism …and at the end of part 2, Charlene has this note: “Note from Charlene: Anyone who ever worked in The Way’s Biblical Research Department, as I did, knows the truth about Wierwille plagiarizing from others. We used to rationalize this by saying, well, he never said he taught anything original, he said he took what he learned from others, put it together (like a puzzle), and “made it accurate.” Really? Accurate according to whom?” The fact that the Bible clearly shows lying and stealing ar

I have forgiven myself; I hear it too many times not to listen, from my counselor, male survivor support group, my faith resources, and a few pertinent online pages. I don;t worry about closure with the ex-Way community, or anyone acknowledging this male being sexually assaulted. But I am very active in the general community; my non Way related friend who helped me break my silence also having co founded a national abuse prevention group, and helping me to laugh and smile (That's her job with everybody). But being loosened up (I heard those words specifically used about me) was not a loosening

Something I missed before, but caught my eye now...... twi is still teaching to "hate gay people"? Is it really true that nobody knows that rosalie rivenbark- expresident and current power-behind-the-throne- that same rosalie fox rivenbark is gay? This was an open secret in certain circles once upon a time. Has that become a complete secret now?

And further..... As a charlatan and sexual predator, wierwille preemptively set "scriptural ground rules" by moving boundary lines. In teaching his "Christian Family and Sex" class (1975)..... wierwille instructed this class as if he had professional expertise in this area. Yet, in effect..... wierwille was setting the foundation for future, sexual predation as many of these women would go on staff or corps. In teaching the "casual nature of sex," vpw was minimizing/eliminating precious boundaries and protocols found in scripture. By illustrating and describing

Btw, I don't watch commercial television either, but do watch YouTube, Hulu, Amazon Prime video and PBS online. I just ran into an Associated Press news story about this recently released (in France, and in French) book about an adult woman detailing her experience as a young teen (13-15 years old) having had a sexual relationship with a much older man who happens to be still alive and previously a celebrated literary star in that country. While twi excuses sexual misconduct by its clergy with adult (sometimes married) women, the interpersonal dynamics at work in the power relationsh

The coolest thing about Christianity is that it makes for a lot of wonderful friendships and relationships. I had to learn to not treat it as a company or a business or even an ideal that I was trying to put into action. In the beginning of my Christian faith I didn't see it that way but as time went on I gave little bits of that away in trade for my work, for acceptance and a social circle I felt I could depend on - boy, you find out real quickly in the Way that they really DO NOT have any friends when it comes to The Word, and in order to stay on year after year you have to basically ju

We all belong somewhere. We all get imbued from childhood with various social norms. If we shift to a different community, we discover and may incorporate within ourselves different norms. Like when we change the place we study, or the type of work we undertake - or, as she points out, change the country in which we live. I found it hard to understand some American perspectives when I was in rez. And I know Americans found a non-US perspective very strange, at times. Even now, when I talk with American friends, they have a world view that sees my world view as incomprehensible (and v

I think we can learn something from everything that happens to us. And those things that happen make us who we are now. If different experiences had happened, then we would be a bit different. My life [and probably everyone else's] has diverged wildly from where I thought it would be at any given point on my "plan." That said, I think I'm ideally placed where I am now to reach out and help others. I like that. I'm happy with that. I don't think that divergence (or indeed the plan) was ever part of God's "plan" but he helps me through the difficulties and problems, and helps me find