TrustAndObey

Wow.. What an egotistical bunch of @%^&@BS.. What they really have done is the exact opposite of what they claim. Instead of a peer reviewed translation, they have a closed minded, privately interpreted translation with their own private assertions pushed into the text thus changing God's original words to meet their own beliefs.. Wow... Expect it to assert things the Bible never asserted before. Such as Christ making mistakes and God making mistakes.. Such Open Theology as it is called, now has it's own bible! Wow.. Something the majority of those who actually serve God and know Him would ever accuse Him of.. While they say they don't blame God, they actually do.. Because God made the mistake! He created Satan and didn't realize He would change and cause problems.. How dare He not know! Now we have problems! It's all God's mistake! And anything else evil that happens, well, just God making the mistake of not realizing that could happen so He could stop it! It's all God's fault.. Him and his 98% accuracy of being right. Yeah.. Open Theology at its greatest. Thanks CES and STFI! What a wonderful accurate assertion added to your translation because you have such a more correct understanding than the rest of the real translators in the world who actually have studied for many many many years and have their translations scrutinized by the best over and over.

God never said to follow or put your trust in anyone but Himself or His Son.. "It is better to trust in The Lord than to put confidence in man" (Psalm 118:8) "Thus saith The Lord; Cursed be the man that either trusteth in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or whose heart departeth from The Lord. For he shall be like the Heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. Blessed is the man that trusteth in The Lord, and whose hope The Lord is." (Jeremiah 17:5-7) Yeah, it's probably not a bad thing.. Why put your trust in man? And in man made ministries? They both have their problems. And with ministries, if money is ever requested for the ministry or it's "purposes" just realize that Paul himself said while he "could" take of their perishable instead he made himself chargeable to no man AS AN EXAMPLE.. Wonder whose example that was to be.. And why would you want to follow or be a part of those who don't learn from such an example? Are they any better than the apostle Paul? They sure think so, if they think they can be chargeable to people and it's not an issue!

Wow.. I'm saddened.. Someone who says he desires to serve God acting like a child.. I want.. I want.. Is that really the heart of a servant? NO! For those who didn't want to read through the whole thing.. Here's a recap with highlights! ..sniff..sniff.. I want to lead MY ministry... sniff. sniff.. they won't let me.. sniff.. sniff.. It's my ministry... sniff ...sniff.. I don't want to be a peon servant, I want to lead ..sniff sniff.. Well, fine, if they won't let me lead, I'm leaving.. sniff.. sniff.. And I'm gonna take some of their money/supporters too.. sniff. sniff.. Take that! sniff.. sniff.. Can someone help me regain control of my ministry.. sniff.. sniff.. Please help me! sniff.. sniff.. I want to lead it.. sniff. sniff.. I'll help you gain control for me.. sniff. sniff.. Enough to make one puke! So the Board won't allow him to self promote HIS life and teachings via STF. Isn't that so sad! Just makes me want to cry. Is that what ministering means to people these days? Produce these junk videos and teachings and send them out to the masses? What happened to actually helping the homeless, the fatherless, the one's destitute for food and clothing? What, send them a tape of the month! Woo hoo! We have bread in our house to eat! NOT.. It was just plastic. And he knows his sharings are the most powerful now cause people tell him that. Gee.. Ain't that the kicker. The ol' humans promoting him. Stop it you guys! Just cause he can be a slick talker don't make him a minister. And this letter really shows it.. Sad.. Just so sad..

Lucky you... After 7 years, I get them quite often, once a week/month.. And not only do I get them often, but they play off one another. First it was a dream about re-entering the Corps and graduating a second time., since at least the dreams recognizes the reality that I did leave after going through once! But now, I'm onto a third and fourth round of re-training.. As if the one real time I went through and left wasn't enough!!! Hasn't gone past a fourth time though.. Kinda strange dream thinking I came/left/came/left a number of times and still make the stupid mistake! When will I learn? Oh yeah,, amnesia, why did I leave to begin with.. You're right Bliss, I have to remind myself, but it isn't hard when not dreaming. It's a business with a Christian label. Ran by money grubbing power hungry fiends who have no care to actually help anyone but themselves. (Speaking of the top dogs, not the local groupies who may not know any better and are sadly misled to think Rivenpuke actually cares for them...)

Why is it that those who are not "IN" must be the ones who are incorrect.. Did they ever stop and think, maybe what is said about them is actually TRUE!!! Maybe the reason they are loosing people is because there actually is a PROBLEM! And instead of trying to hide the problem, maybe they should actually CHANGE and address the problem with humility! And stop wearing old TWI clothes.. I mean, sure they changed some things.. But IMHO they've only gotten worse. Momentus, Personal Prophecy.. Need I say more! And they call themselves a Christian organization yet promote a human like God and Lord that makes mistakes like the rest of us. Just doesn't make sense to me, unless you're trying to setup some MOG, Might as well have a man that is God.. Just needs to be 98% correct these days to pass STFI flying colors as God.. And if they actually have a problem with what was said, why don't they help correct our misunderstanding by coming and showing us proof that we're wrong.. I won't hold my breath! lol.. Anymore than I would for TWI..

I highly doubt it was doctrinal also.. I heard JAL personally a year ago and know what STFI puts out, and I think they are both nuts! But I don't think those nuts are fit for a squirrel (Ham)! They both believe and teach that God makes mistakes. (He's only 98% correct, doncha know! That's why he's not in control!) They both believe Christ made mistakes and said/did incorrect things because He didn't know the everything. They both still teach personal prophecy, only it's not at the forefront anymore. And since God/Christ make mistakes, personal prophecy could be wrong, it's all about practice! (Order our DVD for only $$$$) They still promote the "We are better and have better doctrine than anyone else" philosophy.. There are "nuttier" things that JAL does say at times, but what else do you expect! He's human! lol..

And that, my friends, is the entire crux of the problem of "Christian" organizations today.. Businesses.. That's all they are.. If they even hint at needing your money, run away, run away! The baby that cries the loudest get's the milk, but are they really the ones with the need? While real Christians are struggling with financial, marital, family, psychological problems.. Real problems! We instead support these business men. We need to learn to take care of those who have need around us first!!! I doubt you'll find a shortage if you just open your eyes! And if it isn't the Christians around you with need, is those that haven't found Him yet.. When all those avenues are depleted, maybe and that's a very small "maybe", there might be something to help these "business" men with a so called ministry.

OK - so I guess the answer to my question is, No - no one knows the #'s for recent Corps graduations. Thanks for all who participated. ... Patriot, To answer your curiosity, I looked at my friends mag this afternoon which had a pic of the graduating Corps this summer, Coprs 38 I believe.. And I counted "about" 16 adults (6 kids).. Hope they wake up soon!

Always good to be aware of these... In fact awareness is one of the keys to being critical, I mean thinking critically.. Or maybe it's being critical when thinking.. Umm.. how about thinking critically of the awareness. Yes, I find the most helpful is to always be open!! Eeewwww.. That thing we were so told not to do.. You know, debilz might try and infilitrate your mind!! How scawry! But needless to say, once we realize the fallacy of our own minds. Whether they be hooked from a logical fallacies or bad data in der computah brain, we need to realize it all could be bad data even now! Sometimes that can be a scary thought.. Yeah, you know, dem debil spitz might be in der and fooling you! Hahaha! Or more honestly, it comes with having limited knowledge and understanding of everything in the whole darn world.. And you know what.. NO ONE has all that der information!! Not even GOOGLE! lol.. Oh.. wait.. I believe God does.. Well, despite my belief... Even the Christian scriptures promote such an open mind. PROVE ALL THINGS... AND THEY SEARCHED - WHETHER THOSE THINGS PAUL SAID WERE SO... WE KNOW ONLY IN PART... SEE THROUGH A DARK FOGGY GLASS... PROVE ME NOW, SAID GOD! PROVE IT.. PROVE IT.. AND REAPPROVE IT!! The thing I find most important in all that again, not repeating it all, is that I do it again.. And Again.. And again.. And again.. And again.. and again.. Yes, that der same subject again.. And again.. Every day our brains are absorbing more information. And you can't have too much information, but the more one ascertains the better one can deduce. But deduction skills are still worthless if you don't allow openess to re-look from all perspectives available everything again.. And when someone says something that goes at grain with what your thoughts are. Perfect!! Opportunity to reavaluate and find out their perspective!! Look through their eyes. Find out why and where.. No one has faith or believes in something for no reason. To try and illustrate.. When you measure something.. Say something that is 1 meter long.. How do you know that ruler is accurate? Test it.. But what happens if that ruler shrank! It needs retested. In fact most measuring tools used today have to be recertified every year to assure they are STILL accurate.. Things change. Our minds change. Be open to re-evaluate even those things proven in the past. Who knows whether that which was used to prove it in the past was really an uncertified fallacy posing as truth! You don't.. Or at least, you can't prove it without using some other subjective/relative piece of knowledge.. But then again.. Maybe I'm just nuts and too critical of my thinking... Time to re-evaluate!

I "think".. Which really is both the problem and the solution.. But critical either way! Does that answer the question?

Yeah.. kinda defy's logic doesn't it.. Once you are successful, we'll teach you how to be successful.. Once you can do it yourself, we'll re-teach you.. Why don't they be honest.. And tell them, once they're doing everything right, and successful, we need your success to help us (since our classes haven't help us.)..

Linda Z & skyrider.. Ahhh.. Didn't think about those numbers referring to Wow/WayDs.. So yeah, guess that number does sound about right. But the rest is pretty hilarious.. No salvation and death being final.. What's the benefit in following the damn cult then? We're gonna die anyways..

Yeah, they still do that.. They had VHS for a little while, and now have it on DVD... It must be for those who think there must be some action missing from that mono-toned reading, erm.. I mean teaching.. Must be a joy to watch the person reading it in real color!! And all those 70-80s style step moves..

I'd find it a little hard to believe, since last I knew he was traveling visiting STFI twigs..

Where does this person get their facts?? Quote: "Wierwille concludes there is no salvation, death is final, and faith is not belief." Am I the only one who doesn't get this! And.... " In 1982 it (TWI) had 3,100 world recruiters. By 1997 it had 43. " I mean, TWI is looney enough, they really don't need these even loonier claims.

Darn it, it must have been on my other right.

JeeSjo, I'd be more apt to believe the reality of this all.. They are going down hill.. But hey, let's drink some cool-aid and believe we're just getting more cozy and weeding out those dead beats that gave us all that money before we shot them, I mean kicked them out for not following der MOG God. JT, I haven't a clue on cost these days.. I don't keep up that close. But I was told they still require no debt to be in the Advanced Class.. Actually someone local here was saying they were trying to force them into the Intermediate class and asking them already then to be out of debt.. I know last years was live, but I missed that part of the mag. I'll have to go take a second look if my eyes can stand it. ;)

It may not anymore... Used to be.. While they do have ACSpecials, this was their once yearly Advanced Class for non grads that was held at Gunnison this year, my guess was cause they just didn't have enough people to fill up that ol' Auditorium.

Was just perusing a friends recent Way Mag, and though the numbers were noteworthy.. According to the numbers announced for the 2009 Advanced Class 2009, it had only 69 attendees from 16 states, the two root locales (Gunnison and HQ), and one international. And then 70% of those attendees were teens, which makes about 48 teens and 21 adults! I feel sorry for those kids growing up.. Looks like that's all that is left keeping the Way #'s up.. No fresh blood, just sacrificed kids! And only 16 states?! Where'd they all go?

Been there myself... Glad to have left such things behind. Wish others would wake up! At least for myself, the whole 'never coming unto a knowledge of the truth', is what kept the cycle spinning long past the dry cycle. Especially since it's hard to realize that what you're devoting your time and life and resources into is worthless and not really helping. Whether the 'i' is dotted, or the 't' is crossed, or 666 were crucified with Christ, or he was born in a cave, or God has a pair of red flippers, or angels lost their feathers on their wings, or knowing Satan just loves it when we party on Christmas day instead of on MY birthday, is that really a knowledge of the truth?! Sad.. Some people really think it is!

Agreed, it is poorly designed.. But according to the site, you have to do the following to respond: Please send your letters, questions, articles or reports to John Tng at spirit5@singnet.com.sg.

I'll try and clarify my thoughts, but of course they are just my thoughts on the subject, and may not make any sense at all! Both are Greek words. rhema and logos. Both are 'primarily' translated with the same English term 'words'. But their meaning is different. Rhema at its simplest meaning would just mean 'words'. Such as God's words, what is recorded in scripture. What one says and writes. And sorta defines a language. Logos on the other hand comes from a root that means to collect and at the heart of the word logos is a myriad of thoughts and concepts collected together, they are then synthesized then into words. But those words don't always fully explain or define the entire 'collection' that is being explained. Have I complicated it more? When one speaks about God's rhema, they are speaking of specific words written. Black and white. Every yod and tittle. But when one speaks of God's logos, they attempt to speak of the meanings and understandings, the heart and collection of God's thoughts behind the specific rhema(words). God is certainly love. Those are the specific rhema(words). But what they mean, we can only attempt to explain. For God is greater than us all. But if we look at who He is, what has been revealed about Him, and what He has revealed to us, I think we can start to understand His nature, and understand what He means, the logos, the thoughts, behind these black and white writings. God didn't have the scriptures written so we have a black and white book to read and memorize. He wrote it as the starting point to a relationship with Him. A "how to" on coming to Him personally and having that relationship to know Him, and by doing that, we can know Him personally and reveal Him to others by imitating Him(His love, His care, His charity, His ways).. And yes even his hatred for evil. All that is part of sharing God's love. But on this subject of evil. That surely God hates, and we ought to as well if we are to imitate Him. It doesn't remove the fact that God loves His creation. Each and every part of it. He created it with a purpose in mind. But hates it when it turns from what it was created for. Yet there is nowhere I've seen that God has refused forgiveness to those who return to Him. Not the devil, not a person, not a nation. And while he has pronounced destruction to all those who turn away, including the devil, He has changed that pronouncement when people and nations have turned back to Him, and that is recorded many times in the scriptures. Which to me speaks loudly of God's nature. While He is willing to alert those of their impending destruction, He is always willing to change that initial pronouncement to those who in their hearts turn back to Him. And while I doubt the devil also will ever turn, I believe God is willing if it were to happen. For this is God's love manifest (1 John). And also, 'For God so loved the world that He gave His one unique son that whosoever puts their trust in him, should not perish but have life everlasting'.

I apologize if I made no sense. It is hard to explain thoughts in my head! But I will try and elaborate a little. I just hate to type long winded posts... Bore everyone to death! lol. To start, I think it is important that when we speak of love, we can be speaking of a myriad of things. But when we speak of God's love we speak of something a little more specific. In 1 John 4 we read that God is love. But it goes further, it says, 'He that does not love, knows not God.', and it answers why that is, because God is love. To know God is to be capable of love. Why? Here is where the Hebrew word for love is most revealing to me, the word AHB. The word in its most simplest meaning means 'to reveal the Father'. Now, there are other love's, such as the emotion love, the sexual love, and so on and so forth. But when we speak of God's love, we are not speaking of emotions. We are not speaking of thoughts. We are speaking of God himself and revealing His being, His ways, His care, His truth, His love. Thus back to 1 John, it is impossible to love (reveal the Father[God]) without first knowing Him. Those who honestly know only know Him in part and therefore can only reveal in part. Christ came to reveal God, the prophets revealed God, many throughout history have revealed God. They do so by imitating Him. Ephesians 5:1 'Be ye imitators of God...'. But since no one knows all, our glimpse of who God is, and His love, is limited. But I much rather like the KJV translation of agape as 'charity' because it describes God's nature of one who gives and cares, more so than our English word love which usually is just an emotional term which doesn't clearly fit the definition of agape in 1 Cor 13. ... tbc

In question to how can God hate. Is where I tried to explain my thoughts on love. Hate is not an action such as love. It is a feeling. An emotion. And while that emotion can turn to an action, it is not in of itself. Whereas the love, agape specifically, is not like the English word love, but rather is defined by God in 1 Cor 13 as action, call it charity, rather than an emotion or a feeling, such as hate. Thus it's like comparing an apple with an orange. A feeling/emotion with an action... God can love and hate. He can love and dislike. He can love, and embrace.

I can share with you what I believe, but it's only what I have comprehended from my limited perspective and time with the Lord.. So it is only something to consider if you wish... The Christian scriptures say that God is love, as it is stated twice in 1 John 4. So this is who God is, and whom/what He has revealed of himself to us. Malachi 3 also states that God does not change, so this God of love is the same yesterday, today , and forever. His love does not change. I think also of John 1:3. However I must explain my understanding of this since there are many different understandings here. John 1 speaks of the logos. God's logos. And in Greek this logos is different than God's rhema. The Old Testament laws were written in stone and unchangeable. THEY were rhema. Specific detailed words. And in the Old Testament, there was showbread that was replaced daily with new and the old was by law only to be eaten by the priests. THIS was the law. THIS WAS RHEMA. But David was hungry (Mark 2:25) and this showbread was given to him by the priests which was NOT lawful, yet it was not considered sin. Why? Because of the logos!! God's logos is His heart, his intent, his purpose, his love. David had a need, and God's laws, the rhema, doesn't stop God's heart, His love, His desire from overriding the written rhema. All the law was given with a purpose, a heart, a logos intent. Not a black and white scripted rhema that has no life. So in John 1:3 we read that 'All things were made by God's logos. [The same logos that was from the beginning with God of v2 and v1. God's words, but not rhema, his logos. His intent, his heart, his desires] and without God's logos [His desire or intent], nothing was made that was made. [John 1 is sort of a reference to Genesis, where in the beginning God said, His words - his heart - his desire, let there be light, and light was. And nothing was made without God's logos - His heart desire for it to be so.]. I'm trying to set a preface here, so I'm sorry if it is a little too much. I'm trying to share where my thoughts are so I have to add a bit detail. Not doctrine, not rhema, not necessarily 'It Is Written', but where my thinking is on the subject, which is subjective. We read in the Old Testament how God's heart, his logos, was for the wicked to change their ways. Ezekiel 33:11 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked. but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die?' God pleads for the wicked to change. And I believe that is his heart for all his creation. Be it angel, man, and beast alike. He changes not! And He created all things with a purpose. But when His own creation turns from Him, and the purpose it was created, it dies. Not because God desires it so, but it can not live of itself. Anymore than a car can "try" and act and do something it was not intended to do, it will fail. So God's creation tries to do that which it was not created to do. We pay the penalty of 'sin' which is nothing more than walking away from that purpose which our own body was created for. And God knew that would happen. He knew Satan and some angels would also. And His(God's) cry always is, turn, turn from your own ways, for why should you die? Why should you kill yourself? I created you for this purpose, why turn away and die? He created Satan for a purpose, why turn away and die! I think love also sometimes is misunderstood. Many think of it as an emotion or a feeling. A thought, or a desire. But there is where I like the old KJV translation of agape into 'charity'. It's not just a thought, but an action. It is taking care of, ie. loving, caring for, meeting the needs of whatever one 'loves'. And in this, God has never stopped loving His creation. He cares for and meets the needs, just as the sun shines on the righteous and unrighteous, as does the rain. But as many parents sometimes find out too late, it is sometimes better to withhold 'items' from your kids, rather than giving them everything they crave and lust for. It's a matter of what do they need. Sometime like David, he was hungry and in need, and it was fine for him to eat that which was unlawful. Not rhema, but logos. God who is perfect, knows what his creation needs and cares for it as the perfect Father. I believe that includes Satan. That doesn't mean He is an enabler though, anymore than a parent learns not to be an enabler for their kids bad habits. But it also means, the adversary is allowed to live that he might turn, or else, the writing, the rhema, has been written, He will die, unless he changes. Jeremiah 18:8 "If that nation, against whom I have pronounced [destruction], turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them."