TrustAndObey

My guess is the lawyers.. After the transfer, Rivenbark mentioned about changing office terms and making Board of Director seats a bi-annual electoral based position... Now days, I wonder if she ever really was willing to give up her power!

The best I can find: According to wikipedia: Tare - Ryegrass (Lolium) is a genus of nine species of tufted grasses, family Poaceae. Lolium temulentum It usually grows in the same production zones as wheat and is considered a weed. The similarity between these two plants is so extensive that in some regions cockle is referred to as "false wheat." It bears a close resemblance to wheat until the ear appears. The ears on the real wheat are so heavy that it makes the entire plant droop downward, but the "false wheat", whose ears are light, stands up straight. It parasites wheat fields. The French word for darnel is "ivraie" (from Latin "ebriacus"), which expresses that weed's characteristic of making one feel poisoned with drunkenness.

Well, let me just answer simply, TWI did not publish Doties book with any sort of mention of ol Vic being a mean man. I mean, let's get real, you think the proofreaders and Vic worshippers would allow such a thing to go to print? Their own book mocking their MOG? I know we all wish the real story was able to be published, especially by TWI themselves. But they won't. They will continue to conceal the truths of everything they do. Which is why it is important that those of us who were "in", to speak out about what happened, so that others will not be taken in by these ravenous wolves. I'm sure if she could, Mrs. Wierwille would share what happened, but I'm sure those who know her now, realize she can barely remember which room is hers. Very sad indeed.

Nah, nothing to do with motherboards, power, processor, or the like.. Only 2 things and things only. Video card/Monitor.. Monitor supports it.. Did you try the 3rd party ATI drivers, omega drivers?? My bad!!! Sorry bout that Chas! :unsure: And you are right.. ATI got bought by AMD... But.... ATI doesn't support custom resolutions like NVidia.

I don't think he meant drivers for the processor... Only your video card drivers will make a difference, and if it is an ATI video card, I doubt updated drivers will change the resolutions you have available. Best to go to your manufacturers website, and look for video drivers and find the one that matches your video card (if in doubt, look at your device details under My Computer->Properties). And if the latest drivers don't give extra resolutions, then you "could" try these 3rd party video drivers for ATI. http://www.omegadrivers.net/

In all the meetings I was aware or a part of with the Trustees, I can't ever recall a time when JR stood against Rosalie, maybe suggested alternatives, but if anything he always seemed like a quiet reserved person in most meetings, never offering a whole lot extra other than going with the flow.. Hey, but there could have been some.. Now, Pl@tig on the other hand.. Oh yeah.. He actually would take a stand at times. Actually made me respect him a bit more, except for all the other times he dissed the Word and God's people so he could agree with the ministry as a whole, so he gained some, lost some. And well, he's a company man for the good of the ministry he was a part of.. Reynolds.. He was more a quiet, kind, I'll do what asked of me, but I may not agree internally, only unsure of himself. And if perchance an opportunity how rare it is, he'd speak, but mostly, uncertain, so do it the leaders way! Those are my personal takes, and may or may not actually be true.. But it's what I saw in each when I spent time with either.

Can;'t remember the exact points Reynolds made, but on two occasions almost back to back, teaching once to the Corps and once at a Sunday Night, he screwed up his teachings, and one of them made Rosalie look bad, almost remember it being something how he used her as an example in the teaching and shared things she didn't want known and really made her look a bit foolish. Well, him too! lol.. It was so bad that it was the only time I had been in TWI that they actually sent out a "CORRECTION" teaching to try and fix HIS mistakes.. (Only to the Corps of course).. After that, everything changed to the ol' read the script teachings... Boredom! Yup, blame ol' Reynolds for that! His public speaking skills were almost nill, and Rosalie hated that since he being that example to the people as a Trustee. And those 2 instances almost one week after the other, sealed the deal. It wasn't much longer after those instances, that Reynolds was isolated to only be working in the Purchasing department and a couple other small departments at HQ. All his other "duties" were stripped from him. Well, they made it look like they were spreading the load and helping out. Most his departments were given to good ol 'Linder' to oversee and couple extra to Harv' Pl@tig at the time, but mostly Linder... And a year after that.. Reynolds was demoted out of the Trustees... Well, ok, emeritus.. But, we all knew what really happened.

This is normal when going to widescreens. And the screen resolution sizes you have available are based on those your video card driver supports and your monitor. Seeing your monitor supports 1600x900 but you don't see it in the resolutions list, leads to the simple fact that your video card driver does not support this resolution normally. Your friends are right if you care to buy a new part, or you are right if you want your old aspect ratio and get a monitor that isn't a widescreen. Either choice works, however, you can try to either A) change your windows registry to add a custom resolution under HK_LM\System\CurrentControlSet\Hardware Profiles\ (search for DefaultSettings.XRersolution and DefaultSettings.YResolution) - Change accordingly. B) Install a shareware program called powerstrip to add the custom resolutions (then remove the program) C) If you have an NVidia graphics card with their control panel installed, they allow you to enter custom sizes. Non of these options may work however, as some video cards do not accept custom resolutions. Please note: Option A & B can end up screwing up your monitor or video card if you select sizes outside the actual hardware limits.

I wish there were such a thing as a simple fix myself.. But I doubt it.. The problem is you are going from the old aspect ratio of 4:3 to a widescreen with an aspect ratio closer to 16:9.. So, you will not have the same "view" you had before.. To make matters worse, depending on your video card/monitor combo, it will only support certain resolutions set in the actual hardware. So if 1152x864 is the closest, then that is going to be what you are stuck with! The options it gives will be all you have available AFAIK. I'd try each setting on the computer and then have the monitor do a quick "auto adjust" between each change to ensure the best adjustment.. And, that's about all the choices I know of.. Just one of those things you suddenly run into when going widescreen! Old aspect ratios are no longer optimal and possibly not even available!

My two cents.. Flash drives still are not big enough, unless you only keep a collection of documents. Which if that is the case, flash drive with a auto sync to keep your "My Documents" up to date on your flash drive works great. (Windows Backup always worked for me and comes free with your PC, along with a scheduler to schedule how often and when ran). But for many, who keep videos and music, that 32gb flash drive won't hold much.. And most backup now days are Hard drive to hard drive. Which is where HDD docking stations have come into play in the last few years. Just go buy a 1TB hard drive and a docking station that costs $35, and you can image your entire computer for free. Free Imaging software suggestions - Selfimage or Driveimage XML... Depends how much and how often you need. Flash drive for small jobs, Hard drive docking stations for large.. Microsoft Backup for small or predictable files, imaging for large 100% dependable!

None have invited me back to TWI from that site not even a hint. Although I did run into a ol' Corps pal a few years ago and he wondered why I left, he figured I left due to Martindale and thought since he's gone I might want to return.. Umm, yeah right! lol.. But my emails with innies from The Corps site have gone alright. Mostly how they are doing, how I'm doing, and we keep the details of current Way dealings out. But kind of hard to get much further when you don't speak much of what's going on in the Way now. They actually seem to not want to discuss what's going on now, since they know I might disagree being out. So much for having any lengthy great discussions with em.

Don't worry Ham, if you are ever a little nostalgic and care to reminisce about those good ol' days, then most STFI fellowships will provide the SIT and Prophecy like most ex-Wayfers are used to. However, STFI fellowships are given a bit more freedom, so each can be somewhat unique. Only, since we are talking about most of those going are ex-Wayfers, the happenings don't fall too far short of the original bucket, since most still cling to much of the Way theology. Even take SIT for example, STFI teaches it is more a prayer language rather than a message from God to the people. Yet, you will find many still hold to this ol' style SIT and interpret and perform it that way at STFI functions. Just the "doctrinally correct" guys of STFI will claim that person just SIT and didn't interpret but instead gave a prophecy after their SIT.. And yes, the messages are very eerily close to those found at Way functions. Same ol', same ol'. While I'm sure these folks are inspired to share that same message over and over, I have my doubts whether it is God himself that inspired it right that moment for that group of people to hear the same thing 100x over. That is unless people have some thick skulls and really need to know that God has called them before the foundations of the world again and again and again, rather than maybe something more pertinent and specific in which those hearing have the secrets of their hearts revealed and they fall on their knees and proclaim, God is among you!.. Has anyone seen that happen? Maybe 1 Corinthians is wrong, and prophecy really doesn't work like that. Instead, Know that He is God and a rewarder, and he's called you to share the good news.. And umm.. Keep doing that.. A zillion times.. Yeah.. That's my prophetic word for you today, and tomorrow, and ummm every day, since my prophetic skills seem to be coming from a broken record from the 70's rather than a real living God.

Mark, Not trying to change the subject here or to put mock your belief. And maybe this ought to be in it's own thread. But are suggesting you do NOT believe the opposite of what you thought might have been suggested? "That God CAN be known just from the heart without reading his Word?"... The Word.. God's Word.. His Word... Just sounds so unrelational.. Rather than a living breathing relationship with a living and breathing God who wants us to know him personally, intimately, and sit in his lap and call him daddy, it almost sounds like a dull boring relationship with a non-living organism "His Word" aka "The Book" aka "The Bible". And everything you get is from this black and white written and printed by men book, rather than words that the creator of all things speaks to you personally. When it is written in Romans, "... that which may be known of God is manifest in them[saints]; for God hath shewed it unto them. ", do you think that God only showed them through this black and white text??? I sure hope not. Is it not written after that verse in that black and white text that, "The invisible things of Him(God) from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and godliness; so that they are without excuse" ? So if they are without excuse, according to "His Word", then there must be enough in "the things that are made" that all would be capable of clearly seeing His eternal power and godliness and knowing God. God's greater than a book. And knowing him personally, which can come about in a myriad of ways, and giving him his rightful place as the creator, is what God's interested in. And while I agree, we have a standard that others who knew the this Creator wrote words that God shared with them, there's more to knowing God, in fact, there are other ways to finding God, than that one book you have written which wasn't even around for millenniums. In fact, many have written about Him in every century. Some in that canon of books you have, others not. Some have known Him better than others. Some tend to add traits in their mind about him that probably don't quite agree with who He really is. He is invisible after all. But if there's anything, at least I think, God cares about, it is his children, his creation. And he desires His creation to recognize Him and imitate Him. He is love, and that's what He asks of us, because He did create us with that purpose. How you find him, what book, what he looks like, what words are attributed, are all secondary. But do you know Him?! No about Him, but personally. Yes, I believe he sent His son, the man, Jesus, to show us more perfectly as a living, breathing example. A creation that shows us this invisible God. And this creation recognized God for who He was, His creator that created Him with a purpose. To give his life for us that we might justly be redeemed. And in recognizing God for who He was and fulfilling that purpose, God has raised Him and set at His right hand to be Lord over all. Sure.. But I also believe God is not limited, it is us who limits Him. Limits in what way He can work, and in what ways He is known. But ultimately, His children who recognize Him are known, because their hearts imitate Him. Not because of a standard doctrine that all must bow to, but because their lives show Him! Images of God, what we were created for. That purpose. As Christ is the perfect image of that invisible God!

You'd be surprised how much "regard" they have for Wierwille. Heck, aside from a few "minor" mistakes in his doctrine, they adore his stuff. Only now, you've got the new "doctrine" that is much better, so you don't need TWI, you've got CES/STFI to fall down and worship. Just their "original" name speaks volumes, "Christian Educational Services".. Yup, we are here for the sole purpose of edumacating yu-ons that maght not know da truth, cuz we have da truth! Well, you are right, they have done more research. But just a word of advice, you can research till the cows come home and even be the most intellectual genius of our day and time and still come up short. In fact, it's guaranteed you still won't understand it all. Because we still only know in part, see through a tinted glass, and as 1 Corinthians says, "The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know." That's why the standard Christ shared, the same standard Paul lived, and the standard we are to be "known" by is our love for one another, not by our big IQs. Nor by the fake worldly love either, which loves only certain individuals. But Christ said, love your enemy. And shared a parable about the "good samaritan" to share who their neighbor is, someone who was looked down upon by the Jews. Whether they hate you, want to kill you like Saul wanted to kill David, David still loved Saul and wouldn't put his hand forth to hurt him. So while CES/STFI may have "some" correct doctrine, they have "some" that is not. Just as every religion on the face of this planet. And while they may claim to know "more" of the truth than others, that claim in of itself just oozes with pride, ego, and an I'm better than you are attitude that is the opposite of love, which 1 Corinthians 13 says "love vaunteth not itself". If someone truly has a relationship with the true God, Paul wrote they will share his love. And it won't be just one of two attributes of love, it will be genuine love all the way around, instead of a wordly love that's been altered to look like the truth and trick those unsuspecting. So my advice which may mean nothing and that's fine, Reread 1 Cor 13, "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." And if you see anything otherwise in these brethren, than you can rest assured they have problems, just like we all do, and you can be sure they are just another person with faults like everyone else and not someone to "follow". Since of course, the "man" Jesus Christ, the mediator between God and men, is our only head, and the only one God gave Christians to "follow".

There's that magnet of yours turned on again... "Maybe/Maybe not.." Yikes... Sounds like you're looking for the other magnet searchers to just turn the right neon lights on and you'd be coming. Personally, I'd stay away from any group that doesn't allow you to hold your "OWN" thoughts that are different than theirs AND allow you to voice those said objections at any point in time, including during the 'teaching/lesson".. Else.. Just another darn cult if I ever saw one... I often wonder what the first century would have been like had the synagogues been as closed off like most churches and cults today. It's a complete rarity today, and I do mean, extremely rare, where you could walk into a church or a "bible study/fellowship" and share your thoughts that contradict their doctrine.. Yeah, just doesn't quite exist much these days.. And then.. I think back to what the scriptures say Paul did back in Acts.. "On the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent a message to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of encouragement for the people, say it. So Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said: “Men of Israel and you who fear God, listen...." or "Now at Iconium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue and spoke in such a way that a great number of both Jews and Greeks believed." or "They came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” Interesting, how even after the first time of letting this guy come in and share "something different" then the Jews believed, was still allowed to come and speak again! What ever happened to this openness, this honesty? Personally, I think most Christian churches and cults are scared someone might actually persuade someone concerning truth! God forbid, someone else might be more right!! Ahhh well, that's why I say, unless they allow you openly share different thoughts, I'd count them as scared little cult sheep huddling around their cult leaders. But you know.. I could be wrong! So I welcome any "differing" thoughts! Maybe I'll actually learn something other than one denomination/cult's agenda.

Most of the local Way Corps that either live at HQ or nearby, or guests that arrive once in awhile will teach. They usually have it planned a year in advance so they all have plenty of time to put their "script" together. It really is pathetic. They worry someone might say something "inaccurate", non Way-speak, so everyone is required to have their teaching typed out, word for word, then submitted to allow the trustees to read over, then read to the trustee's the week of that Sunday so they can make any minor adjustments. After that, they read it to the people on Sunday. Boring. So boring. They are not allowed to go off script, so any looks of not reading is because they at least had a bit memorized.. Which is now days rare. (Or they get their a$ $ chewed out afterwards). I remember this being more the norm after you had John Reynolds (at that time, Secretary Treasurer) make some serious mistakes in a live teaching, they even had to send out correction tapes at the time to Corps, and since then, Rosalie taught on preparing teachings and having it all written down. and well, that is now the norm. Boring. No dynamic teachers anymore. Most all Corps are cycled through as long as they are considered decent speakers(readers) and not on "discipline" status.

I've looked at the dictionary, and it seems to say it could go either way... Do you have definitive proof it should be one way or the other??? Just curious, so I am certain to use the proper term myself!

I'm sure someone can blame the author of "Hansel and Gretel" for the reader who became a cannibal or possibly a child kidnapper just as much as you can blame God for the misguided 'Christian' or 'Jew'. And while many of us were duped into TWI's study and "rightly(yet wrongly) dividing", I think there's two sides to every coin. TWI that cleverly devised the trap, and us who bought into it. Neither are without fault in my "opinion". While same may claim innocence because they were duped, I don't.. Just like the high pressure salesman that tells you everything you want to hear, some of it false, that one time you buy in. I admit at least for myself, I allowed my desire to override my good sense. And having left and regained "some" sense back of what really happened. I see a "little" clearer with 'eyes open', lol.. And what I have come to realize at least for myself, is that the Bible isn't a mystery after all, nor is it ambiguous. Yet, it can be made that way with everyone "re-defining" terms and coming up with different definitions (because of Greek/Hebrew of course). And ultimately, it can seem like a hard to understand book if you go searching for things that aren't really there, or things it wasn't written for! Much like those sold into the current Bible codes.. I now realize I was sold into our own version of Bible codes.. And only "the class" makes these dark secrets understood. You too can have it now, for only $***.99, don't wait, act now. And if you order in the next 30 minutes we'll add secret bible codes 2 to your order! Nowhere in the Christian bible is it written that it contains everything you will ever need to know. Although the salesmen trying to sell it may say it does. Why sure it contains fantastic stories of wizards and giants, wild visions and dreams, oh and life and godliness, and everything you're heart desires! And while I may be wrong, and I'm willing to be corrected, but to me, the Bible is nothing more than a book that explains some about who the Creator of the heavens & earth is, written by men that knew Him personally and could attest to His very words. And what their intent in writing these things is so you get a glimpse of the Creator and might want to know Him yourself so you can get His take on things instead of taking their's or anyone else's word for it. At least that's my opinion, and I'm probably way off. But hey.. It's my brain and I can play with it how I want to. lol

Yup socks, I agree.. "Rather than forge some stamped out orthodoxy for conducting ourselves or build an artificial heirarchy based on a few verses from the bible, I think we (the family Church) have an opportunity everyday and everywhere to develop ways of working together and functioning that are LIVING and breathing, dynamic and full of the elegant growth and change that God and Christ have exhibited in our past and that we have promised in our future." Too many people in Christianity look at it as if it is some ladder climbing, positional, hierarchy system. Be it clergy/laity or simple teacher/student.. Yet the thing I believe we both recognize is we all need to be taught at times, and we all need to teach others at times. So we each submit to one another in love in the family, the body, the church. With Christ as it's only head rather than a "called of God" man/woman, since we are all actually called of God in some sense. For the head of man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God!

Socks, You wrote, "But the presentation in Chap. 9 doesn't stack up if it's used as a fully vested doctrinal position for earning a living from the church of God that one serves IMO, from a broader view of the bible." I've gone from one side of the flag pole to the other. From TWI, that sure a man ought to be paid, to, What the heck, no man should gain from God's truth. And now, I'm where I rested my case above.. While I understand where you are coming from, and I totally agree for the most part. Who in their right mind ought to live from sharing what God gave them for free. But then I began to understand why.. It's more of a natural flow as opposed to a legalistic, business decision of I'm going to share the word and God better take care of me! That's why it all goes back to 2 main things I can think of now. A) The heart. The heart to give. God loves a cheerful giver and certainly will take care of all his children. No matter what they are doing, service in sharing the good news, or a chef at McDonalds. So with that heart to do God's will is where God will bless, not starting a business in God's Word which includes "requiring" a return from those you give to. B) But then also something I didn't state.. God's calling. Not our own calling. God called Paul and Barnabus for a purpose for a mission. So it wasn't man's decision. It wasn't Paul's decision. As he stated in the next verse, it was laid upon him by God to live and do this. And I know so many times we mix up our own "will" with God's will. If we think it in our heart, we think because it sounds godly, that, it must be God's will.. No.. Not necessarily. So, certainly, you are right in that, "It only works in those cases where you have a personnae fitting "Pauls", or very close to it.".. There is nothing contradictory in what you said.. As long as we leave it to God, and trust and obey, wait, that's my nick again.. I mean trust in God and imitate Him. Fod God is love, and His love was manifested in His giving (of His son). Thus we trust and give..

Will it matter if you put your socks on correct or not? Yes, it will.. Everything has consequences. Very similar to Newton's "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.." which isn't 100% completely accurate, and I only mention it because I'm bored and like to waste time and space, so now I'll move on..... Depending on how you place your socks on your feet, will result in a myriad of results for your feet. From cramps, to cold spots in different areas, to material lumps causing friction causing skin rubs. Likewise, there is a point to correct doctrine, or something otherwise called 'truth'. Without being correct, we can produce results we really weren't aiming for. The problem lies with who has this truth? Do you? Do I? Does someone on this planet? And with that, comes the myriad of answers. There are those who think they have "truth", and those are usually the egotistical ones who never listen, don't care what others have to say, and whose only opinion that matters is their own. I tend to agree with the Apostle Paul who had written in 1 Cor 8 "We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. But the man who loves God is known by God. " Yes, we all have some knowledge, undeniably limited at that. And when we just focus on our knowledge, rather than listening to others, closed minded so to speak, we can become puffed up. So there's something better Paul says.. Love.. Because what a man "thinks" (key word there) what we think we know, we really don't know as we ought to. It's limited, right?! I think we can all agree our perspectives are all limited. And therefore our knowledge is limited, and our understanding, and certainly then our belief of what is "true". All limited. Man/Woman is basically limited in what we are capable of doing and understanding. But the more of the 'truth" we know, the more we are capable of doing. But then it still comes back to who has this truth. Man is limited, and so whatever truth man has, will not be the "whole" truth. Thus, some people turn to God to lead them. Others turn to some limited man/leader. Others return back to their limited selves. And yet others wonder around looking for someone or something (an alien or spirit guide perhaps) to lead them. We all have "reasoning" of why we chose who to listen to for the "truth". And we all will have consequences accordingly. If you follow a conman acting as a minister, you're going to be taken for a ride. Thus many find comfort in not following any, the safety of ones own domain, unable to be taken. So they think. So yes, there is relevance. Sometimes it is overrated. Certainly not worth fighting over, as Paul said, there is something better. Love..

I'm sure the answer is well known as to who benefits from any received $$ in the Way.. The BOT and the best brown nosers, I mean those whom the BOT deemed worthy for a time. The problem I see is not whether they have a "right" or better yet a "privilege" to receive $$ from their giving of the scriptures in the form of a class. As Paul said in 1 Cor 9 "... Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has said that those who preach the gospel should live from out of the gospel ..." The real problem is rather that it is from the heart that we are all to give, not grudgingly or out of necessity. The class was given to help others, or so we were taught. (Putting the actual merit of the class aside). And if our heart is to give, because we desire to give, then would we require $$ before we gave? How can anyone say that TWI's heart for helping teach "God's Word since it hasn't been known since the first century" was based on the heart to give and help? If you wanted to help a man on the side of the road with a flat tire, would you wait until he gave you something of value before you helped him? Of course not, not if you really wanted to help the guy! It wouldn't matter, that wasn't the focus, the focus was to help the man! It's when the focus became not in helping and giving (if it ever was for the BOT), then the class was all about the return, the $$. Rather than if they gave because that's their desire, then it would have been evident, because you wouldn't require something in return. You would give if it was within your means. There are 2 sides to the giving here, and both are not to be done grudgingly or out of necessity. Yet the "required" donation became a necessity on both parts. A necessity if you were to take the class, and a necessity on the one who gave the class because once they were "paid", they legally were binding to give the class [or give your money back!]. That's why it is always "freely you have received, freely give". Christ freely gave to those who would listen. And those who listened were to freely make it available. Nothing changes that today, we still have been grafted into God's tree freely and partakers of that inheritance (because of His son), and freely we share that good news and make it freely available to others. We give what we received with that heart to give 'freely'. No charge required if we do it according to God's way. But if someone has freely given to you. And it has some value. Meaning it actually is worth something to you, not just because he's a "so-called" minister or because he shares the scriptures, but rather you were partakers of what they gave freely and it was of worth to you. Then God says they who gave have the privilege to receive in return for that. They have the privilege and the right. But it's according to the other person "desiring in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity" to give in return, which may or may not be the case. (And of course, it requires those who give to actually give something of value!!) Ultimately, it's a trust issue. And those who require something "up front" show they have no trust. So the point of making money off a bible class is so they don't have to be dependent and trust in God! Because they who give their lives to serve God, and share the good news, trust that God will care for them no matter what. And God promises he will. But it is left up to God how that will happen. Instead, those who lack trust, yet claim the opposite, show by their own life who they trust in. The all powerful $$. If they have $$ in their fists, then God is alive, but if not, then God is no more.. Sad.. Really sad. Rather than trust in God to supply their need, they try and requite it from man. Sure, there are many who will never give and help those who gave something of worth to them, but then that's not the point. God's greater than all that, and it all comes down to trust and obey.. Oh wait a minute, that's my nick.. I mean trust in God and give, freely, that all may benefit mutually. At least that's my perspective, and I'm sticking to it. (For now).

Only "covering" I know of, is Christ's blood shed for our sins.... And in that, He was raised to be our Lord as head of the body, far above all prinicipalities, powers, etx... etc... Is there something missing from that, which makes it not enough?! We now need some "other" person to fill in a gap that Christ never did? I don't know of any... But am always willing to hear others ideas.

Yeah, I know plenty of Wiccans thats are nice people.. But, then most Wiccans I know don't weild any "real" power anyways.. Imitation witches I call em.. Course, there's plenty more Imitation Christians tooo... lol.. Yeah, we all have em! Nah, the real "witch" I knew, my aunt, no, that was a real one.. One who could bring the other side of power to any meeting if she thought you were trying to convert my uncle (who was a relative) to Christianity. You want lightning, here's lightening. You want sounds from beyond, how about out of body visibly seen and demons in physical form.. It was enough that my mother will have nothing more to do with Christianity in the "real" sense, and her eyes will show it every time I mention it. Real fear because of real power. Verses about "greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world" just don't cut it when it's just words on a page to you, especially when you've seen the "seven sons of sceva" happen in reality. It exists despite what any atheist or agnostic may think, and when you're then in the mix of it, it can be pretty scary..

So what you are saying, or maybe I'm just not understanding you right, is that you believe most Trinitarians believe that you really don't die when you die but still have some sort of conscience and awareness which in reality means you're still alive?! I do realize many believe you go to heaven or hell, but I wouldn't have thought they might have the idea you never really died, just a mere mortal flesh wound that moved you to the "other side". Just seems to much like the old reincarnation type of belief to me.. Wonder, what's the point of God then if we all will live consciencely in the afterlife despite him.. Heck, those who didn't live for him now, won't then either! Really makes death of no purpose then, or does it? So who cares if Christ died. Or anyone. The really didn't die anyways, they just took some pain!! And we all still live! Viva death! Go ahead, eat the pineapple, you won't die!