Since most general office workers are underpaid anyway, I consider it one of the Godly perks. Most office workers work very hard anyway & usually the company looks the other way if they have a worker who goes above and beyond.
I've worked in both, and in my present job I have no set hours. the only requirement I have is to do my work and interact with my team, which requires I be there some overlapping hours.
with kids, I'm often late and have to leave early. if I didn't have the option to work late at night and on weekends to make it up, I'd have to give up on my career and work part time at the grocery store.
Just because LCM made a big deal out of something doesn't make it the 11th commandment. It is human nature to slack off over time, especially if the work is repetitious. Every place I've worked for any length of time I saw authorities "shake things up" every so often for office people. warehouse people, whatever.
What I'm wondering is why did LCM himself have to address this? I don't fault him for spying on those people, or for wanting the situation to change, but THAT one he could have delegated to someone else. IMO.
if working for me a phone call home is absolutly acceptable if you want to check on the kids etc but an email to a friend about a sick cat NOT things like this are what spoil it for everyone
This is a rather ironic thread because when I was on staff, he said he wouldn't think evil of people he saw out and about during the work day. I think this came from him trying to justify his playing golf in the afternoons. He told us he got up at 5:00 a.m. to start studying (thus his day started early), and he played golf in the afternoon. I'm sure he stopped to talk to his family later in the morning before they went to school, etc. Is that part of his work day? Not for anyone else it isn't. But he was the MOG, so he could do whatever he wanted and then call it holy and blessed by God.
loyboy's opinion on an honest day's work might mean more if it was within the realm of his experience. did he EVER have a real job (before he got the heave-ho from twi)? screw him and his opinions about "an honest day's work." call me when you get a job, neanderdale!
coolchef, I'm reading this thread from work. would you fire me for taking a little break to read a personal bbs or email my friend about my sick cat? sometimes people just need a break.
Yeah, I wonder what craigger's opinion is now. I'll betcha it's changed.
My boss knows that I keep my personal e-mail and some other sites constantly "up" at my desk, but he also knows that I do stellar work, never miss a deadline, help my co-workers gleefully, work late when necessary and always exceed expectations. *shrug* He's not concerned if I come in a few minutes late, leave a few minutes early or take a few breaks at work. But, then again, I discussed it with him beforehand so that there wouldn't be any problems or questions.
I suppose if my record wasn't so impeccable it might be a different story. I'd sure hate for everyone to lose the privilege because of one or two people abusing the system. That's why I like my company - they deal directly with the offenders and don't make the rest of us pay the price for the screw ups.
I am far from being the most punctual person in the world, but in the nature of the business where I work (a supplier of consumable goods for workers in a plant that manufactures aircraft engines),
getting to work 5-10 minutes earlier each day to relieve the previous shift is essential.
People have gotten fired from my workplace for being habitually late.
Well, you all are pretty much confirming my own thoughts on this... it very much depends on the workplace, the nature of the work you are responsible for doing, and your own reputation.
All of which Craig missed by setting down a particular mandate for everyone. Perhaps some of those late-arrivers had already worked things out with their immediate department boss. Perhaps some of those folks were shiftless no-goods milking the system. Many of us know first-hand you had great and not-so-great folks at HQ just like anywhere else. One blanket ruling from on high probably wasn't the best way to go.
I have no problem with jobs that require you to be in your place ready to go by a certain time. I've done them myself and even enjoyed them. You usually know if that's what you signed on for ahead of time. But I refuse to feel guilty or feel that I am a bad person because the pace at my place of employment allows a little freedom.
So there, Craig!!!!! NYAH. (one more piece of waybrain falls by the wayside)
Highway, hi. Interesting topic, especially since I just read an article about children respecting parents if they calmly teach them what the rules are or what is expected of them. I didn't copy and paste and wish I had to post here. It was very clear and concise. The point the author was making was that parents who use anger to get compliance should expect kids to break the rules or what is expected of them once the parents have calmed down and behave normally. Why? Because they don't think it matters except when parents are angry and tend to forget the rule.
Personally, I don't take people seriously either when they're angry all of the time and think more about what is causing them to have a bad day than what they say.
So, how does this relate to the workplace? I haven't had any managers who stayed angry all of the time, but the ones I've had appreciated it that I was almost always on time or a bit early. This was probably a habit, I have to admit, developed by "Corps time." HEhe.
As far as Craig and the Way goes, they didn't invent the timecard. :) And there is such a thing as being "late for work" when there's no reason for it other than - you're late. If other people depend on someone being on time, that won't work very well for very long.
But a lot of jobs and work environments don't live and die by the clock. There's accountability to the work that needs to be completed and the salary being paid, but businesses find that in today's world if you can't flex time a little to accomodate good employees you're probably going to have unhappy employees. Work and life can conflict.
Instead of allowing them to build frustration with each other it's better to try and do what makes good sense for everyone, within the constraints of what has to get done for business to succeed, the state laws, etc. etc.
Harping about 5 or 10 minutes as being "dishonest" assumes the worst of the person, that they aren't going to make the time up, or do the job they're supposed to and be honorable employees. That gets old quick.
I'm sort of old-school. If the start time is 8, you be there at 8, coffee in hand and ready to go. There's really no "getting away with it". An honest person does what needs to be done and if they adjust their time here, they adjust it there. If you're getting paid for a job completed, you complete it. If X amount of hours is part of that, you put those hours in somewhere.
But yeah, somehow I'm sure Mr. Craig told himself he worked so hard all the time anyway his own "adjustments" weren't the same as for the Regular Joe. Just a guess, but it's S.O.P. for the "spiritually mature", a phrase I can barely type with a straight face.
The thought of Craig skulking in a car, so he can get the 'goods' on people gives me the creeps. To work on staff already meant you were working many more hours than you were paid for, at amazingly low wages.
Those who chose to work there did so because of a love for God and commitment to giving all they had to give. Noone that I know went to work at HQ so they could screw off.
From what I know of craig and experience with leadership in general, there was no way Craig was NOT going to find something to scream about. If everyone was there early everyday, he wouldn't have liked the way they dressed or something.
What a nightmare.
One can't argue with working timely, and efficiently. I'm so insane that I go into work at 6 am, when I don't have to be there until 9 ! I just work better in the early hours. I work with some who I never see before noon, but I know that they love working at midnight. I work in a creative field, where so called artistic temperments are accepted, but the demands and workload are at least as challenging as any job I've ever had.
Like most things in the way, you were never good enough, or doing enough.
That Martindale would have the nerve to criticize other people's work ethics is laughable. He always acted as if he were on the verge of total exhaustion from driving himself so hard...HA! The guy was a total slacker. He played golf in the afternoons for crying out loud!...he was waited on hand and foot...
The truth of the matter is that your work responsibilities are defined at the time you are hired...Martindale probably cared more about people looking to him as the ultimate authority on life than he did about work ethics...he was so "taken with himself" as the mog, that he had to find SOMETHING to complain about...
...and his complaining was always with the view of humiliating someone...elevating himself as some great one at the expense of the rank and file member who happened to fall into his crosshairs.
...I wonder if he has to punch a clock at Balley's
I've got no problem with folks "taking a little time" here and there... if they're good, they make it up somewhere else... it's gotta be a give and take kind of thing... if it's all one way, either for the worker or for the business, I've found it's not real good for anyone...
The job I enjoyed the most was the job I had working for the State of Alaska. I had a boss who every Monday morning would tell me what he needed done that week and the deadline for each project. It was up to me to see that the projects were done on time and correctly. This worked great for me because I am highly self motivated and don't like someone peering over my shoulder. It didn't work for one of my co-workers who never did anything unless the boss was standing there either encouraging, directing or complimenting.
My idea of office work is that the necessary stuff needs to be done no later than 10 AM so the rest of the day can be spent on special projects or new ideas-- the fun stuff
But that is me, there are people who seem to be unable to function without consistant guidance from an authority figure.
You have to wonder about HIS work ethics in sitting around morning after morning spying on people, rather than arriving at a timely manner and preparing for his own job!
Why wasn`t he at HIS desk working?? Seems rather hypocritical to me.
We all know what HE was doing during work hours with his co workers in aos during business hours.
I don't think LCM was any kind of authority on work ethic. Sure, employees need to meet employer expectations--and those can varry from employer to employer.
LCM was just doing what all the leadershi+ I saw in the later years did--find fault, then go ballistic over it. Like it is so spiritual to find fault with another person, because we all know most people are perfect. Sheesh.
This was how they used their imagination--to develop horrible accusations toward other believers based on some ordinary fault or even perceived fault. Real issues that they may have really been able to help peope deal with--too boring. Much more personally satisfying to make a big stink so all eyes were on you.
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LornaDoone
Since most general office workers are underpaid anyway, I consider it one of the Godly perks. Most office workers work very hard anyway & usually the company looks the other way if they have a worker who goes above and beyond.
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potato
I've worked in both, and in my present job I have no set hours. the only requirement I have is to do my work and interact with my team, which requires I be there some overlapping hours.
with kids, I'm often late and have to leave early. if I didn't have the option to work late at night and on weekends to make it up, I'd have to give up on my career and work part time at the grocery store.
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johniam
Just because LCM made a big deal out of something doesn't make it the 11th commandment. It is human nature to slack off over time, especially if the work is repetitious. Every place I've worked for any length of time I saw authorities "shake things up" every so often for office people. warehouse people, whatever.
What I'm wondering is why did LCM himself have to address this? I don't fault him for spying on those people, or for wanting the situation to change, but THAT one he could have delegated to someone else. IMO.
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coolchef
if working for me a phone call home is absolutly acceptable if you want to check on the kids etc but an email to a friend about a sick cat NOT things like this are what spoil it for everyone
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Nottawayfer
This is a rather ironic thread because when I was on staff, he said he wouldn't think evil of people he saw out and about during the work day. I think this came from him trying to justify his playing golf in the afternoons. He told us he got up at 5:00 a.m. to start studying (thus his day started early), and he played golf in the afternoon. I'm sure he stopped to talk to his family later in the morning before they went to school, etc. Is that part of his work day? Not for anyone else it isn't. But he was the MOG, so he could do whatever he wanted and then call it holy and blessed by God.
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sprawled out
loyboy's opinion on an honest day's work might mean more if it was within the realm of his experience. did he EVER have a real job (before he got the heave-ho from twi)? screw him and his opinions about "an honest day's work." call me when you get a job, neanderdale!
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potato
coolchef, I'm reading this thread from work. would you fire me for taking a little break to read a personal bbs or email my friend about my sick cat? sometimes people just need a break.
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Belle
Yeah, I wonder what craigger's opinion is now. I'll betcha it's changed.
My boss knows that I keep my personal e-mail and some other sites constantly "up" at my desk, but he also knows that I do stellar work, never miss a deadline, help my co-workers gleefully, work late when necessary and always exceed expectations. *shrug* He's not concerned if I come in a few minutes late, leave a few minutes early or take a few breaks at work. But, then again, I discussed it with him beforehand so that there wouldn't be any problems or questions.
I suppose if my record wasn't so impeccable it might be a different story. I'd sure hate for everyone to lose the privilege because of one or two people abusing the system. That's why I like my company - they deal directly with the offenders and don't make the rest of us pay the price for the screw ups.
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Nottawayfer
Neanderdale
ROFLMAOPIMP!!!!
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TheInvisibleDan
I am far from being the most punctual person in the world, but in the nature of the business where I work (a supplier of consumable goods for workers in a plant that manufactures aircraft engines),
getting to work 5-10 minutes earlier each day to relieve the previous shift is essential.
People have gotten fired from my workplace for being habitually late.
It still happens in the real world.
Danny
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TheHighWay
Well, you all are pretty much confirming my own thoughts on this... it very much depends on the workplace, the nature of the work you are responsible for doing, and your own reputation.
All of which Craig missed by setting down a particular mandate for everyone. Perhaps some of those late-arrivers had already worked things out with their immediate department boss. Perhaps some of those folks were shiftless no-goods milking the system. Many of us know first-hand you had great and not-so-great folks at HQ just like anywhere else. One blanket ruling from on high probably wasn't the best way to go.
I have no problem with jobs that require you to be in your place ready to go by a certain time. I've done them myself and even enjoyed them. You usually know if that's what you signed on for ahead of time. But I refuse to feel guilty or feel that I am a bad person because the pace at my place of employment allows a little freedom.
So there, Craig!!!!! NYAH. (one more piece of waybrain falls by the wayside)
Thanks everyone for responding.
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waterbuffalo
Highway, hi. Interesting topic, especially since I just read an article about children respecting parents if they calmly teach them what the rules are or what is expected of them. I didn't copy and paste and wish I had to post here. It was very clear and concise. The point the author was making was that parents who use anger to get compliance should expect kids to break the rules or what is expected of them once the parents have calmed down and behave normally. Why? Because they don't think it matters except when parents are angry and tend to forget the rule.
Personally, I don't take people seriously either when they're angry all of the time and think more about what is causing them to have a bad day than what they say.
So, how does this relate to the workplace? I haven't had any managers who stayed angry all of the time, but the ones I've had appreciated it that I was almost always on time or a bit early. This was probably a habit, I have to admit, developed by "Corps time." HEhe.
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coolchef
potato
if you are taking a break sure it is ok to email friends! but don't go out for your 15 smoke break after you spend 15 mins here
sorry i have always had a strong work ethic
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socks
As far as Craig and the Way goes, they didn't invent the timecard. :) And there is such a thing as being "late for work" when there's no reason for it other than - you're late. If other people depend on someone being on time, that won't work very well for very long.
But a lot of jobs and work environments don't live and die by the clock. There's accountability to the work that needs to be completed and the salary being paid, but businesses find that in today's world if you can't flex time a little to accomodate good employees you're probably going to have unhappy employees. Work and life can conflict.
Instead of allowing them to build frustration with each other it's better to try and do what makes good sense for everyone, within the constraints of what has to get done for business to succeed, the state laws, etc. etc.
Harping about 5 or 10 minutes as being "dishonest" assumes the worst of the person, that they aren't going to make the time up, or do the job they're supposed to and be honorable employees. That gets old quick.
I'm sort of old-school. If the start time is 8, you be there at 8, coffee in hand and ready to go. There's really no "getting away with it". An honest person does what needs to be done and if they adjust their time here, they adjust it there. If you're getting paid for a job completed, you complete it. If X amount of hours is part of that, you put those hours in somewhere.
But yeah, somehow I'm sure Mr. Craig told himself he worked so hard all the time anyway his own "adjustments" weren't the same as for the Regular Joe. Just a guess, but it's S.O.P. for the "spiritually mature", a phrase I can barely type with a straight face.
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hiway29
The thought of Craig skulking in a car, so he can get the 'goods' on people gives me the creeps. To work on staff already meant you were working many more hours than you were paid for, at amazingly low wages.
Those who chose to work there did so because of a love for God and commitment to giving all they had to give. Noone that I know went to work at HQ so they could screw off.
From what I know of craig and experience with leadership in general, there was no way Craig was NOT going to find something to scream about. If everyone was there early everyday, he wouldn't have liked the way they dressed or something.
What a nightmare.
One can't argue with working timely, and efficiently. I'm so insane that I go into work at 6 am, when I don't have to be there until 9 ! I just work better in the early hours. I work with some who I never see before noon, but I know that they love working at midnight. I work in a creative field, where so called artistic temperments are accepted, but the demands and workload are at least as challenging as any job I've ever had.
Like most things in the way, you were never good enough, or doing enough.
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GT
Well put hiway.
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shazdancer
This just cracks me up...
So, what was Craiggers doing in his car, for several days, no less? NOT WORKING!Link to comment
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GrouchoMarxJr
That Martindale would have the nerve to criticize other people's work ethics is laughable. He always acted as if he were on the verge of total exhaustion from driving himself so hard...HA! The guy was a total slacker. He played golf in the afternoons for crying out loud!...he was waited on hand and foot...
The truth of the matter is that your work responsibilities are defined at the time you are hired...Martindale probably cared more about people looking to him as the ultimate authority on life than he did about work ethics...he was so "taken with himself" as the mog, that he had to find SOMETHING to complain about...
...and his complaining was always with the view of humiliating someone...elevating himself as some great one at the expense of the rank and file member who happened to fall into his crosshairs.
...I wonder if he has to punch a clock at Balley's
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Tom Strange
I've got no problem with folks "taking a little time" here and there... if they're good, they make it up somewhere else... it's gotta be a give and take kind of thing... if it's all one way, either for the worker or for the business, I've found it's not real good for anyone...
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templelady
The job I enjoyed the most was the job I had working for the State of Alaska. I had a boss who every Monday morning would tell me what he needed done that week and the deadline for each project. It was up to me to see that the projects were done on time and correctly. This worked great for me because I am highly self motivated and don't like someone peering over my shoulder. It didn't work for one of my co-workers who never did anything unless the boss was standing there either encouraging, directing or complimenting.
My idea of office work is that the necessary stuff needs to be done no later than 10 AM so the rest of the day can be spent on special projects or new ideas-- the fun stuff
But that is me, there are people who seem to be unable to function without consistant guidance from an authority figure.
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sprawled out
hey, if the browridge fits! :P
(it was a toss-up between that and "cro-martindale.")
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rascal
cro martindale...lol good one.
You have to wonder about HIS work ethics in sitting around morning after morning spying on people, rather than arriving at a timely manner and preparing for his own job!
Why wasn`t he at HIS desk working?? Seems rather hypocritical to me.
We all know what HE was doing during work hours with his co workers in aos during business hours.
What a
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Bramble
I don't think LCM was any kind of authority on work ethic. Sure, employees need to meet employer expectations--and those can varry from employer to employer.
LCM was just doing what all the leadershi+ I saw in the later years did--find fault, then go ballistic over it. Like it is so spiritual to find fault with another person, because we all know most people are perfect. Sheesh.
This was how they used their imagination--to develop horrible accusations toward other believers based on some ordinary fault or even perceived fault. Real issues that they may have really been able to help peope deal with--too boring. Much more personally satisfying to make a big stink so all eyes were on you.
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TrustAndObey
Don't they say that usually people will see their own faults in others first before they recognize their own faults?
Maybe that's the case!
Wonder if he sees them now?
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