Not sure if you still agree with me as I was makng a comment on TWI's recent lawsuit against "The Way Ministry's" group for reasons to protect their own interests. God forbid someone would ever get those two ministries confused.
About 10 years ago I watched the whole Piffle class on DVD and watched a few sessions of the Adv class on DVD. Â There are people that have everything, all the classes retro fitted to today's media, in the form of DVD's! Â
I think at the time there were those in charge of bookstores and had Limb access to all materials and classes who might have copied everything when the ministry started firing people like limb coordinators. Â It's out there if you want it, the problem is I don't want it anymore.
Before Geer launched WIGP, I know that anyone who wanted their area to have a PFAL type class, had to teach it themselves, and in those days, from '88 to about '92 or so, no taped or video class was around or authorized, for those who were dearly departed from der Vey. Â So, most just reworked the class and taught it themselves at the twig or branch level, in some states the whole limb and WC got fired all at once, so the structure stayed pretty much intact with few changes. Â
For the Geer group, some Pfal sections were reworked in light of Geer's research conducted at Gartmore and with the old TWI research staff and heavy hitters such as Bernita, Walter, Townsend etc, that had left the ministry.  The new Gartmore research was dispersed to the USA through Geer's tapes, or visits to Gartmore, but what was re-taught through these live classes was basically the same stuff, same old Pfal.
That is what happened right after, I think since Geere's group was formed so early, I don't think anyone bothered to question the validity of Vp's research, also Geer was fanatically loyal to him. Â Funny thing is, the followers still don't question their loyalty to Geer or the body of the work, they have no clue it originated from BG Leonard and have no knowledge of plagerism, nor do they want to hear about it. Â Pretty complete deception I'd say.
...b!tches and hos..." "...The HOPE OF GLOW-RAY!!"
Haha -- "Let me tell ya people about the stealer in John 10:10 -- Satan - the thief want to knock a n***a out. We ain't gonna let him do that - Nah. Keep the FEAR out of your life -- it's the Big Brother after ya yo. Stand up."
Weren't some Black Panthers involved in the Way at one time?
I was in from 1972 - January 11, 1996, and I remember that sometime during that time, Eldridge Cleaver took the PFAL Class. He didn't hang around afterward, though.
7. "Copy right" meant when you copy, only copy right onto Beta tapes, if you can find a machine old enough..
or open reel tape..
6. Though the chairs were strung, the coffee stretched, and forty year old styrofoam cups properly washed, without any new students, there isn't anything better to do at the time..
VP's "ties" to the John Birch propoganda and "white supremacy" - he read and received various books and newsletters in the 70's while I was at the Way Nash and talked about certain bits of information from them occasionally. He appeared to glom onto them as a source of information about the political climate and events in the country, ie "insider information".
He was somewhat right wing, IMO, but not that much more than someone of his background and upbringing. I personally doubt seriously that he was a true "white supremacist" by definition, "a person who believes that the white race is or should be supreme". He was closer to believing that a true born again believer with an accurate knowledge of the "word" should be supreme.
He was somewhat right wing, IMO, but not that much more than someone of his background and upbringing. I personally doubt seriously that he was a true "white supremacist" by definition, "a person who believes that the white race is or should be supreme". He was closer to believing that a true born again believer with an accurate knowledge of the "word" should be supreme.
I agree --as I think of Lonnell J. and Claudete R. (in particular).
S.O., I recommend not answering. I won't tell him why I share the same stupid "avatar" as you either. We should keep it a secret, if that's okay with you. Plus, if we tell LNM he won't be able to handle it and I'm sure his head would explode.
Writing isn't a huge part of my job, no. Thanks for the compliment though! I think it is anyway, so thanks.
Thanks waysider. I would agree with that, to the extent that - IMRFHO - VP didn't join or subscribe to these groups publications as a supporter of agendas towards white supremacy. I'm not sure, literally, that the John Birch Society is clearly based on a "white supremacist" foundation that includes racism to the point it's actively purusing that other non-"white" races should be stamped out or relegated to a lower status. Others probably know more but I thought that the JB'ers were more concerned about the spread of communism and "big government".
VPW clearly had a concern, even paranoia (IMRFHO) about the restrictive nature of government as one of the tools the "adversary" uses to hamper and divert people away from the path of God's intents. My way of putting it, but it's not an unreasonable concern. I think he found the kind of "insider" information he was looking for to give a view into what was "really" going on at times, and he looked at a lot of different sources. How reliable were they? I really don't know. Most of it sounded like "so what" to me.
Still - he could pull a rabbit out of the hat at times. In the 70's there was a big truckers strike, I think it was country wide in effect. I know in California my family told me supermarket shelves were going bare at one point. A few weeks before the strike hit, VPW came in and was talking about planning for certain things and buying ahead "just in case". When the strike got going, Betty B, who ran the kitchen at that time, explained to us at lunch one day we were stocked up a couple months, so not to worry. I'd called my family early on to give them the heads up too. He never said where he got that idea, one way or the other, but it could have been through some of these kinds of sources.
But he did openly speak out against rascism, particularly rascism against "black" Americans, while I was at the Way Nash, and never turned away anyone based on race, that I ever saw. Maybe someone else did. I vaguely remembered him saying once out in the Way Woods one night, when he was talking about society and the trends of the day, that if he was an "Indian", he'd be pi$$ed too, that Native Americans got screwed, regardless of what they believed or lived like and that being "different" wasn't cause for termination. "Otherwise, we'd all be in trouble here, honey!" hahahah.
Anyway, that's my incredibly RFHO, for what it's worth.
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What The Hey
Not sure if you still agree with me as I was makng a comment on TWI's recent lawsuit against "The Way Ministry's" group for reasons to protect their own interests. God forbid someone would ever get those two ministries confused.
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JavaJane
"...b!tches and hos..." "...The HOPE OF GLOW-RAY!!"
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now I see
About 10 years ago I watched the whole Piffle class on DVD and watched a few sessions of the Adv class on DVD. Â There are people that have everything, all the classes retro fitted to today's media, in the form of DVD's! Â
I think at the time there were those in charge of bookstores and had Limb access to all materials and classes who might have copied everything when the ministry started firing people like limb coordinators. Â It's out there if you want it, the problem is I don't want it anymore.
Before Geer launched WIGP, I know that anyone who wanted their area to have a PFAL type class, had to teach it themselves, and in those days, from '88 to about '92 or so, no taped or video class was around or authorized, for those who were dearly departed from der Vey. Â So, most just reworked the class and taught it themselves at the twig or branch level, in some states the whole limb and WC got fired all at once, so the structure stayed pretty much intact with few changes. Â
For the Geer group, some Pfal sections were reworked in light of Geer's research conducted at Gartmore and with the old TWI research staff and heavy hitters such as Bernita, Walter, Townsend etc, that had left the ministry.  The new Gartmore research was dispersed to the USA through Geer's tapes, or visits to Gartmore, but what was re-taught through these live classes was basically the same stuff, same old Pfal.
That is what happened right after, I think since Geere's group was formed so early, I don't think anyone bothered to question the validity of Vp's research, also Geer was fanatically loyal to him. Â Funny thing is, the followers still don't question their loyalty to Geer or the body of the work, they have no clue it originated from BG Leonard and have no knowledge of plagerism, nor do they want to hear about it. Â Pretty complete deception I'd say.
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Outfield
"
Haha -- "Let me tell ya people about the stealer in John 10:10 -- Satan - the thief want to knock a n***a out. We ain't gonna let him do that - Nah. Keep the FEAR out of your life -- it's the Big Brother after ya yo. Stand up."
Weren't some Black Panthers involved in the Way at one time?
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waysider
Now, this would be BIG ,BIG news in view of VeePee's ties to White Supremacy and John Birch propaganda.
Anyone have any specifics?
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now I see
It wouldn't surprise me, Jimmy Do*p and the believers were all over Oakland at the time, the Word was really moving back then.
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DogLover
I was in from 1972 - January 11, 1996, and I remember that sometime during that time, Eldridge Cleaver took the PFAL Class. He didn't hang around afterward, though.
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pond
but now i see
how does a word move exactly?
hmm?
do you mean they were selling alot of the pfal class at the time?
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socks
Top 10 Reasons Classes Were Stolded or Tooken:
10. Thought "All Rights Reserved" meant they were - for me!
9. Couldn't get bogged down with all of that Old Testament legalistic "stealing" stuff. Hey, we're a family! Consider it a "loan"!
8. Too embarrassed to admit the "Date Checked Out" card got lost!
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Ham
7. "Copy right" meant when you copy, only copy right onto Beta tapes, if you can find a machine old enough..
or open reel tape..
6. Though the chairs were strung, the coffee stretched, and forty year old styrofoam cups properly washed, without any new students, there isn't anything better to do at the time..
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Larry N Moore
Yea. One would wonder how that black singing group -- what was their name -- managed to ever get up on the stage of any Way event.
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Ham
umm.. I don't know about the vicster, but about every "leader" before about 1989 around here did attend John Birch meetings..
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Larry N Moore
I must not have gotten that memo. Damn secretary!
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socks
5. Recent research into the word "steal" has show that it doesn't really refer to physical theft, but spiritual theft.
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socks
VP's "ties" to the John Birch propoganda and "white supremacy" - he read and received various books and newsletters in the 70's while I was at the Way Nash and talked about certain bits of information from them occasionally. He appeared to glom onto them as a source of information about the political climate and events in the country, ie "insider information".
He was somewhat right wing, IMO, but not that much more than someone of his background and upbringing. I personally doubt seriously that he was a true "white supremacist" by definition, "a person who believes that the white race is or should be supreme". He was closer to believing that a true born again believer with an accurate knowledge of the "word" should be supreme.
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dmiller
I agree --as I think of Lonnell J. and Claudete R. (in particular).
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sprawled out
socks--what do you do for a living? whatever you do, if it doesn't involve writing, it's a damn shame.
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Larry N Moore
Sprawled out, why do you and socks share the same stupid avatar? :)
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Ham
Yep. I should be a millionaire..
I'd say about 98 percent of this "accurate word" does as much good in my life not using it now, as it did when I tried to apply it..
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doojable
You do realize that dissing Calvin is blasphemy, don't you....? :)
Just leave Hobbes alone, please.;)
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socks
S.O., I recommend not answering. I won't tell him why I share the same stupid "avatar" as you either. We should keep it a secret, if that's okay with you. Plus, if we tell LNM he won't be able to handle it and I'm sure his head would explode.
Writing isn't a huge part of my job, no. Thanks for the compliment though! I think it is anyway, so thanks.
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waysider
In retrospect, I see that I should have inserted the word "propaganda" after "White Supremacy" like I did after "John Birch".
I was stating that he had ties to the propaganda. I was not stating he had active ties to the "white supremacy" movement, specifically.
My apologies for any misinterpretation this caused.
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socks
Thanks waysider. I would agree with that, to the extent that - IMRFHO - VP didn't join or subscribe to these groups publications as a supporter of agendas towards white supremacy. I'm not sure, literally, that the John Birch Society is clearly based on a "white supremacist" foundation that includes racism to the point it's actively purusing that other non-"white" races should be stamped out or relegated to a lower status. Others probably know more but I thought that the JB'ers were more concerned about the spread of communism and "big government".
VPW clearly had a concern, even paranoia (IMRFHO) about the restrictive nature of government as one of the tools the "adversary" uses to hamper and divert people away from the path of God's intents. My way of putting it, but it's not an unreasonable concern. I think he found the kind of "insider" information he was looking for to give a view into what was "really" going on at times, and he looked at a lot of different sources. How reliable were they? I really don't know. Most of it sounded like "so what" to me.
Still - he could pull a rabbit out of the hat at times. In the 70's there was a big truckers strike, I think it was country wide in effect. I know in California my family told me supermarket shelves were going bare at one point. A few weeks before the strike hit, VPW came in and was talking about planning for certain things and buying ahead "just in case". When the strike got going, Betty B, who ran the kitchen at that time, explained to us at lunch one day we were stocked up a couple months, so not to worry. I'd called my family early on to give them the heads up too. He never said where he got that idea, one way or the other, but it could have been through some of these kinds of sources.
But he did openly speak out against rascism, particularly rascism against "black" Americans, while I was at the Way Nash, and never turned away anyone based on race, that I ever saw. Maybe someone else did. I vaguely remembered him saying once out in the Way Woods one night, when he was talking about society and the trends of the day, that if he was an "Indian", he'd be pi$$ed too, that Native Americans got screwed, regardless of what they believed or lived like and that being "different" wasn't cause for termination. "Otherwise, we'd all be in trouble here, honey!" hahahah.
Anyway, that's my incredibly RFHO, for what it's worth.
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socks
Top 5 Ways to Make Sure You Got to Keep Your Class Stuff:
5. Wait until you're the last one standing in your city, get appointed "Limb Leader" and then quit. And move.
4. Relabel with titles like - "Little Bobby's 3rd birthday party".
3. Two words: "What tapes?"
2. Five Words: "My Leadership said it was okay!"
And the number one way to make sure you'd have them forever:
Rub every beta tape all over your body. Ewwww! Touched by a cop-out!!! You and your cootie-plattoon can keep 'em!!!!"
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