There is a woman who posted here once or twice. She and I knew each other in TWI. She grew up in TWI with a single Mom. She had been a wow with her mom and they were living in a Way home when I knew them.
She was a teenager back then. I wasn't too much older than her. She was 16 I was 20.
I actually had a nice car at one point in TWI. . . my family bought it for me. I took this girl out to the mall and taught her to drive a stick shift. We just drove around for hours. . . laughing.
She reminded me of that when caught up with each other here. She remembered I was patient with her. . . and that she had so much fun. It is funny because I had forgotten all about it. . . but, it was a good time.
I did it because we had picked names out of a hat in twig and had to do something nice for the person we drew. I got her name.
I would have done it anyway, but the reason I did was twig. How I knew her was TWI. . . . She said she had never forgotten, it was a happy memory for her.
My brother's first wife taught me to drive a stick shift. I was 16 and remember it well, it is a happy memory for me.
This girl was about the sweetest kid. . .happy, well adjusted, and grew into a lovely woman. I never saw her mom mean to her and everyone around her just adored her. She is married and has kids of her own now.
It was so nice to reconnect with her. . . if only to hear she has had a good life and is happy. Hubby and I had been talking fondly of them only a few weeks before I saw her posting here.
Go figure. . . I had done something nice for someone. . . while in TWI. . . and it became a happy memory for someone.
Sometimes I think there's a journey that arises from what a person needs at the time:
*Some need to forget - because remembering is too painful
*Some need to remember - because forgetting is too costly
*Some need to rebel - because rebellion offers some form of control
*Some need to conform - because conforming offers some peace from the friction
*Some need to speak out - because they have been silenced too long
*Some need to listen - because listening offers perspective
There is no order, rhyme or reason to this journey. Some may not need any of it - they just turn their back and walk away.
There is no formula, no cookie cutter answer as to when or how a person travels from a cult. Cookie cutter answers and quick fixes never really do much. Wasn't it the search for a quick and easy answer that started the mess for many of us?
Just one class...
Just these ten promises...
Just this one green card...
Just one year...
Just three more years...
Then - a lifetime of "commitment"...
The last "ribbet" from the soup pot as it comes to a boil...
Of course the journey back to some kind of life without a cult, without the quick fixes, is going to involve a process that is both complex and individualized.
The "good times" fit in that complex mess and recovery in different ways according to what a person needs at the time.
I think at the time the times were good, either because you were happy, or because you'd better be happy. Now that people have had the time to look back (more or less objectively) the perception of the times have changed.
I don't recall people whining about their awful cars, or lack of funds, or terrible living conditions. Things were what they were and besides whining only reminded a person of his/her lack of believing.
I think it's difficult to reconcile the terrible cost that many paid. For me it helps to remember that most were trying to do nothing more than to be right with God the best way they knew how.
Some people choose to cloud every memory with the idea that someone knew most of them were being deceived all along. I choose not to give anyone that much power over my memories.
I think it's important to remember than everyone here is free to think, remember, and believe any way they want, which is a lot better than where we came from.
I think it's important to remember than everyone here is free to think, remember, and believe any way they want, which is a lot better than where we came from.
Most wayfers I know came from the U.S of A.
Where one has the right, to toss the work of the ones who came before them. Aaaahh freedom.
I think at the time the times were good, either because you were happy, or because you'd better be happy. Now that people have had the time to look back (more or less objectively) the perception of the times have changed.
I don't recall people whining about their awful cars, or lack of funds, or terrible living conditions. Things were what they were and besides whining only reminded a person of his/her lack of believing.
I think it's difficult to reconcile the terrible cost that many paid. For me it helps to remember that most were trying to do nothing more than to be right with God the best way they knew how.
Some people choose to cloud every memory with the idea that someone knew most of them were being deceived all along. I choose not to give anyone that much power over my memories.
I think it's important to remember than everyone here is free to think, remember, and believe any way they want, which is a lot better than where we came from.
Yeah.........I'd agree with much of this.
And, really.........how many of us teenagers and young 20-somethings allowed wierwille and co. to be the dominating center of OUR UNIVERSE? Some of those twig fellowships lasted like 25 minutes.......and we were off doing something else. Really.........the wierwille idolatry and pyramid structure was NOT all that big of deal.
BUT...........in hindsight, I find it disgusting to see the gritty details of wierwille and his board buddies. The manipulative tricks, the motorcoach approach, the plaigarist panhandling, and mog smog........wierwille and upper hierarchy were the antithesis of the gospel/epistle records. Sure, I saw red flags time and time again.......but took the view of "not thinking evil of other believers."
They have no power over my life, my memories. In the end.........."I'm thankful I am the man I grew to be."
Some people choose to cloud every memory with the idea that someone knew most of them were being deceived all along. I choose not to give anyone that much power over my memories.
Wasn't/Isn't there a sign over the door of the BRC saying something like, "The Good Old Days are NOW!"?
Heck, those who are innies now (but not yet posters here) might well look back in 10 years or so on their time now and think it was the good old days.
Some of the best people I have ever met have been in TWI.
Some of the worst people I have ever met have been in TWI.
I knew nobody already in when I joined.
I know some people now that I maintain still contact with. Am friends with, even. Am glad to know.
There are others that I have not yet heard of/been in contact with that I would like to know about.
Then there are are the other people ... that I would have difficulty being anywhere near. They are few and far between.
Brainfixed, your time will probably pan out like that too. It wasn't all bad, it certainly wasn't all good. It's looking at it for what it was, and trying to find a balanced view. Not wildly one extreme or another. What does it take to make your heart peaceful?
Your head is a bit of a whirl but you sound like you're "getting there." Be patient with yourself. The rubbish in your head wasn't put there overnight and it won't be cleaned out overnight, either.
I think though that in my case...those good people and fun times were at the cost of losing the real good times with my own family...birthdays, holidays, vacations, time irretrievably lost with now deceased grandparents.
Whenever I think about my *good* times...inevitably the unsettling thought creeps in ....wondering how many excathedras or Kristins were being coerced into sex...how many children like brainfixed and bolshevic were being mistreated...how many people like Tom and Roxanne were driven to suicide....folks who`s marriages and families were being ripped apart....all while I sat on my happy little fanny at any given fellowship, blissfully ignorant.
Sigh...you talk about not letting that define us now...but gosh...I just don`t see how some things from then that can be undone... friends and family who died from following twi doctrine...people like me who cannot bring life to the child that it was insisted that God required aborted.
even though i wasn't looking for "help" i found it in rascal's words and now yet again rascal has come forward and said the things i found my heart was yearning to hear. just an acknowledgement of what was happening to others while she was enjoying her good times. it's not blame or accepting responsibility where she had none, but it's just the acknowledgement, just saying "Whenever I think about my *good* times...inevitably the unsettling thought creeps in ....wondering how many excathedras or Kristins were being coerced into sex...how many children like brainfixed and bolshevic were being mistreated...how many people like Tom and Roxanne were driven to suicide....folks who`s marriages and families were being ripped apart....all while I sat on my happy little fanny at any given fellowship, blissfully ignorant."
i wasn't out to take away from anybody's good times, and until i read rascal's words i didn't realize that all i really needed to begin a real healing in my heart was to hear the acknowlegement of the price paid for "good times".
Brainfixed, I am glad that you can find some small measure of comfort in my words all of these years later....
For me personally, it is even worse when I think about the culpability of who I think of as the *good* folks....sigh...the people like us who never saw the dark side...who never deliberatly hurt another.... we lived our lives without malice or cruelty, people who did their very best to live as principled, men and women of honesty, and good character.
Wierwille couldn`t have functioned without well intentioned, wholesome appearing christians to hide his true nature behind. While we were happily living our lives of service, caring for one another, studying our scriptures, laboring for the Lord....presenting a front of spiritual wholesomeness and well being....nobody would have been fooled into following this psychopath`s doctrines.
Damn it, we thought that what we were doing was for God, to strike a blow against the darkness of evil...we wanted to be a force for good in this world....
That is the true outrage, we did what we did in the name of God with scriptural back up to justify and excuse.
They couldn`t have done what they did without our support, with our labors and finances. We were the unwitting decoys, lures designed to lull the potential prey into a sense of complacency and well being...
All I can do, is say that I truly am sorry for what was endured by so many innocent, and pray that God will forgive the damage wrought in our ignorance and stupidity.
I married in TWI--to one of the wows that got me in the class. Had three kids in TWI. Sure we had good times. But the bulk of those I had good TWI times with did not remain friends for long, just friends in passing. Most moved on away from TWI long before we did. People came and went.
Others who I was very close to when my kids were little marked and avoided our family as required when we left TWI...the minister who married us, who we so admired, morphed into an LCM enforcer. We saw our fellowship coord's personality change over the years and not for the better, to a harsh, arrogant man who used others like pawns on a chess board--but at one time he was a buddy of my hubby's-- they had 'good time' in the seventies. Believers we knew and enjoyed left, got M&A or put on probabtion, relationships ended abruptly. Friendships ceased to have any type of stability.
In the nineties people quit taking pictures of events etc--you just had to purge them later when people got M&A etc.
So good times, sure. I still know my family members in my wedding video. We had personal family events that are precious. But our cherished memories are the family times, not the TWI events we were part of. Lots of tainted memories. Do I really want to dredge up 'good times' of the ROA '94, and all those people who are not in our lives at all now, some who now depise us?
Twi was like an illness.Things started out all healthy but it was all downhill after that.
the words of jesus ring in my heart these days, and they are all the more poignant when reading these things. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". jesus knew.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
45
41
53
43
Popular Days
Jun 13
53
Jun 12
52
Jun 3
44
Jun 1
39
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 45 posts
geisha779 41 posts
Bolshevik 53 posts
brainfixed 43 posts
Popular Days
Jun 13 2009
53 posts
Jun 12 2009
52 posts
Jun 3 2009
44 posts
Jun 1 2009
39 posts
Popular Posts
Tzaia
There were no "good" times. There were a few good people, but even my first visit - a branch meeting - was not what I would call "good". Overwhelming - yes. I was told it would cost at least a dollar
Linda Z
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, RumRunner. Without naming names, what are you talking about? You can give examples of behavior/types of posts without naming names. I'm really trying to und
potato
I'm glad vpw is dead.
Bolshevik
edited.
cause it was dumb.
Edited by BolshevikLink to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
There is a woman who posted here once or twice. She and I knew each other in TWI. She grew up in TWI with a single Mom. She had been a wow with her mom and they were living in a Way home when I knew them.
She was a teenager back then. I wasn't too much older than her. She was 16 I was 20.
I actually had a nice car at one point in TWI. . . my family bought it for me. I took this girl out to the mall and taught her to drive a stick shift. We just drove around for hours. . . laughing.
She reminded me of that when caught up with each other here. She remembered I was patient with her. . . and that she had so much fun. It is funny because I had forgotten all about it. . . but, it was a good time.
I did it because we had picked names out of a hat in twig and had to do something nice for the person we drew. I got her name.
I would have done it anyway, but the reason I did was twig. How I knew her was TWI. . . . She said she had never forgotten, it was a happy memory for her.
My brother's first wife taught me to drive a stick shift. I was 16 and remember it well, it is a happy memory for me.
This girl was about the sweetest kid. . .happy, well adjusted, and grew into a lovely woman. I never saw her mom mean to her and everyone around her just adored her. She is married and has kids of her own now.
It was so nice to reconnect with her. . . if only to hear she has had a good life and is happy. Hubby and I had been talking fondly of them only a few weeks before I saw her posting here.
Go figure. . . I had done something nice for someone. . . while in TWI. . . and it became a happy memory for someone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
this thread is a bad memory.
cellllebrate good times!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
potato
dooj, this is so completely awesome!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
I think at the time the times were good, either because you were happy, or because you'd better be happy. Now that people have had the time to look back (more or less objectively) the perception of the times have changed.
I don't recall people whining about their awful cars, or lack of funds, or terrible living conditions. Things were what they were and besides whining only reminded a person of his/her lack of believing.
I think it's difficult to reconcile the terrible cost that many paid. For me it helps to remember that most were trying to do nothing more than to be right with God the best way they knew how.
Some people choose to cloud every memory with the idea that someone knew most of them were being deceived all along. I choose not to give anyone that much power over my memories.
I think it's important to remember than everyone here is free to think, remember, and believe any way they want, which is a lot better than where we came from.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
yeah i guess. you grow up poor, you expect the more abundant life to be just a little abundant lol
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Most wayfers I know came from the U.S of A.
Where one has the right, to toss the work of the ones who came before them. Aaaahh freedom.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yeah.........I'd agree with much of this.
And, really.........how many of us teenagers and young 20-somethings allowed wierwille and co. to be the dominating center of OUR UNIVERSE? Some of those twig fellowships lasted like 25 minutes.......and we were off doing something else. Really.........the wierwille idolatry and pyramid structure was NOT all that big of deal.
BUT...........in hindsight, I find it disgusting to see the gritty details of wierwille and his board buddies. The manipulative tricks, the motorcoach approach, the plaigarist panhandling, and mog smog........wierwille and upper hierarchy were the antithesis of the gospel/epistle records. Sure, I saw red flags time and time again.......but took the view of "not thinking evil of other believers."
They have no power over my life, my memories. In the end.........."I'm thankful I am the man I grew to be."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
TWI . . . . the gift that keeps on giving.
Edited by geisha779Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
I just skimmed this thread for the first time...
Wasn't/Isn't there a sign over the door of the BRC saying something like, "The Good Old Days are NOW!"?
Heck, those who are innies now (but not yet posters here) might well look back in 10 years or so on their time now and think it was the good old days.
Some of the best people I have ever met have been in TWI.
Some of the worst people I have ever met have been in TWI.
I knew nobody already in when I joined.
I know some people now that I maintain still contact with. Am friends with, even. Am glad to know.
There are others that I have not yet heard of/been in contact with that I would like to know about.
Then there are are the other people ... that I would have difficulty being anywhere near. They are few and far between.
Brainfixed, your time will probably pan out like that too. It wasn't all bad, it certainly wasn't all good. It's looking at it for what it was, and trying to find a balanced view. Not wildly one extreme or another. What does it take to make your heart peaceful?
Your head is a bit of a whirl but you sound like you're "getting there." Be patient with yourself. The rubbish in your head wasn't put there overnight and it won't be cleaned out overnight, either.
Dooj says some good stuff.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I saw a sign in a tavern that said "Free Beer Tomorrow." :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
which tavern did you say it was? :o
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I'm not sure, but I think that sign may still be hanging on the wall.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
what year was that sunofabeech born ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cheranne
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ok i just looked up on the internet if it's true
he was born in 1916 and i was born in 1956
when he started counseling me on the way of a man with a maiden i was 19, so he 59
when he got me on the coach i was 23 and he was 63
talk about "good times"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GeorgeStGeorge
In 1979, I was in my first full year with Twig Fellowships and taking the Advanced Class. I was 23 also.
I would consider those some of MY good times. I'm very sorry how horrible it must have been for you. :(
George
Link to comment
Share on other sites
geisha779
So, in 6 years you will be the same age that VP was when he hurt you?
Excathedra, your posts reveal a dear and tender woman. I mean that sincerely. . .
and it breaks my heart if he still has any power to cause you pain and sorrow.
I am sorry for what you and many women endured. It was wrong. It was evil and it was sick.
Let them own their own garbage. . . . . . it belongs to them.
I hope some day we can all bury him. . . consign him to the warm climate in which he dwells. . . . . and be rid of him.
They all had their time in our lives. . . VP. . . LCM. . . Rosie. . . TWI. . . BOT. . and the I say "To hell with them".
I remember the good people I met along the way. . .the laughs. . .the kindness I knew. . . but the rest of it. . . . gets no more from me.
I gave them more than my share. . .
They are not worthy of one more tear or bit of anguished regret any of us have.
Let them wallow in their filth . . . drown in it for all I care.
They took enough. . . . TWI doesn't get to define my past. . . I do.
Edited by geisha779Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
I can see your point Geisha.
I think though that in my case...those good people and fun times were at the cost of losing the real good times with my own family...birthdays, holidays, vacations, time irretrievably lost with now deceased grandparents.
Whenever I think about my *good* times...inevitably the unsettling thought creeps in ....wondering how many excathedras or Kristins were being coerced into sex...how many children like brainfixed and bolshevic were being mistreated...how many people like Tom and Roxanne were driven to suicide....folks who`s marriages and families were being ripped apart....all while I sat on my happy little fanny at any given fellowship, blissfully ignorant.
Sigh...you talk about not letting that define us now...but gosh...I just don`t see how some things from then that can be undone... friends and family who died from following twi doctrine...people like me who cannot bring life to the child that it was insisted that God required aborted.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
brainfixed
even though i wasn't looking for "help" i found it in rascal's words and now yet again rascal has come forward and said the things i found my heart was yearning to hear. just an acknowledgement of what was happening to others while she was enjoying her good times. it's not blame or accepting responsibility where she had none, but it's just the acknowledgement, just saying "Whenever I think about my *good* times...inevitably the unsettling thought creeps in ....wondering how many excathedras or Kristins were being coerced into sex...how many children like brainfixed and bolshevic were being mistreated...how many people like Tom and Roxanne were driven to suicide....folks who`s marriages and families were being ripped apart....all while I sat on my happy little fanny at any given fellowship, blissfully ignorant."
i wasn't out to take away from anybody's good times, and until i read rascal's words i didn't realize that all i really needed to begin a real healing in my heart was to hear the acknowlegement of the price paid for "good times".
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Brainfixed, I am glad that you can find some small measure of comfort in my words all of these years later....
For me personally, it is even worse when I think about the culpability of who I think of as the *good* folks....sigh...the people like us who never saw the dark side...who never deliberatly hurt another.... we lived our lives without malice or cruelty, people who did their very best to live as principled, men and women of honesty, and good character.
Wierwille couldn`t have functioned without well intentioned, wholesome appearing christians to hide his true nature behind. While we were happily living our lives of service, caring for one another, studying our scriptures, laboring for the Lord....presenting a front of spiritual wholesomeness and well being....nobody would have been fooled into following this psychopath`s doctrines.
Damn it, we thought that what we were doing was for God, to strike a blow against the darkness of evil...we wanted to be a force for good in this world....
That is the true outrage, we did what we did in the name of God with scriptural back up to justify and excuse.
They couldn`t have done what they did without our support, with our labors and finances. We were the unwitting decoys, lures designed to lull the potential prey into a sense of complacency and well being...
All I can do, is say that I truly am sorry for what was endured by so many innocent, and pray that God will forgive the damage wrought in our ignorance and stupidity.
Edited by rascalLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
I understand what rascal is saying, too.
I married in TWI--to one of the wows that got me in the class. Had three kids in TWI. Sure we had good times. But the bulk of those I had good TWI times with did not remain friends for long, just friends in passing. Most moved on away from TWI long before we did. People came and went.
Others who I was very close to when my kids were little marked and avoided our family as required when we left TWI...the minister who married us, who we so admired, morphed into an LCM enforcer. We saw our fellowship coord's personality change over the years and not for the better, to a harsh, arrogant man who used others like pawns on a chess board--but at one time he was a buddy of my hubby's-- they had 'good time' in the seventies. Believers we knew and enjoyed left, got M&A or put on probabtion, relationships ended abruptly. Friendships ceased to have any type of stability.
In the nineties people quit taking pictures of events etc--you just had to purge them later when people got M&A etc.
So good times, sure. I still know my family members in my wedding video. We had personal family events that are precious. But our cherished memories are the family times, not the TWI events we were part of. Lots of tainted memories. Do I really want to dredge up 'good times' of the ROA '94, and all those people who are not in our lives at all now, some who now depise us?
Twi was like an illness.Things started out all healthy but it was all downhill after that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
brainfixed
the words of jesus ring in my heart these days, and they are all the more poignant when reading these things. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". jesus knew.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bulwinkl
yeah good times. right
Nestle's and mayonaise sandwiches. sounds like good times to me alright.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.