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81 members have voted

  1. 1. If you are still at GS, what years did you enter TWI?

    • 60\
      0
    • 70\
      55
    • 80\
      21
    • 90\
      3
    • 2000
      1


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If you studied this, then you would know it's not a poll. Rather, it is an informal survey. As for the rest, if you had studied anything about polls or surveys, you would know that this "poll" couldn't possibly lead you to the conclusions you state. That makes your statement, informally speaking, pompous drivel.

Isn't that (what I have bolded and italicized), informally speaking, true of most dyed-in-the-wool TWI supporters?

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What is ...ed?

Feel like my 20's and 30's were stolen in the 70's and 80's? Nope, not even a little bit. Torture and near starvation can make for a strong person. A wow or anyone else involved in the many "self-improvement" programs can attest to that. I survived those years. Now, I am a tough, wise ole bat who can handle anything that comes my way.

I do miss that 21 inch waist, though.

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I know this is old, but wanted to bring up a point.

The accusation made was that this site is full of people who feel like their 20's and 30's were stolen in the '70's and '80's. In every accusation there is an element of truth, so I thought I'd dig into it.

For there to be a group of people who used to be associated with an organization that feels this way means that there is an organization that abused people in the '70's and '80's. One isolated incident is an anomaly, however, the vast majority experiencing the same thing means that perhaps the person with blinders on is the one that still is in the organization and still excusing away the abuses of the organization while blaming the victims of the organization. Is it really the vast majority? Let's look at numbers. Out of all the people, numbering in the hundreds of thousands, who took TWI's foundational class, how many are still associating themselves with the organization? Current membership is purported to be in the 2000 - 3000 people in the US. So even taking the least total number of 100,000 FNC graduates and 3000 current members, this points to about a 3% retention rate. Corps grads? Less than 5%. What does this show? At the least common denominator that TWI sucks at taking care of their own.

Would you find a university with these numbers? Never - even the worst retention rate university. Any organization that is financially dependent upon membership contributions with that kind of retention rate basically is circling the round bowl treading water to avoid being flushed.

The ONLY way this org is surviving is hording the property and money garnered during its heyday of the late 70's and early 80's. You have a very legalistic group at the top that operates on strict obedience to the President. You have a paranoid political environment at the top where everyone is afraid and no free thought or expanding or dissenting opinion is tolerated. You have the private lives of the people at the top in direct opposition to what they teach publicly.

The sneering down-the-nose look at ex-TWI members like those on this site who are piecing their lives back together and living them with the freedom that God intended rather than the indentured servitude to Pharisees that TWI offers kind of depicts the exact attitude that you will find pervasive throughout all of TWI leadership. It's sickening to God's stomach. Those Pharisees need to repent. But they won't because they think they are too egotistical. They will not receive reproof and correction from the scriptures. The real motto of the leadership - the Way Corps is not "It Is Written". It is "It Is Position". Because of primary concern is the position of the person speaking, not the scriptural truth of what is being said.

Christianity is designed for the masses. For the sinners. For the downtrodden. It was never designed to construct a hierarchy of idiots whose greatest reward in life is their stupid little positions and titles. As scriptures state, they have their reward. The rest of us can live our lives and develop ourselves with our Lord and Savior to lay up rewards that are not paper mache and plastic like that.

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Billy Boblet was getting the company line or was part of it him/her self.

I took PFAL in 1968. I'm probably not the best representative of GS in opinion or perspective, but I do know that most of the participants in this board weren't from the 70's and 80's. That statement indicates participation from the early growth surge of the Way through the death of the founder and the transition to Martindale.

IMO, most of the useful input has come from those involved in the 80's, 90's and into the 2000's....that era really shows the transition into what the Way is today - it covers the greatest impact of Martindale setting up shop and building - sorry, I meant destroying, the Way's structure.

As you note chockful, the Way's interests are served by re inventing the whole thing. That GS is full of old timers, belly achers, who aren't happy with this thing or that things but that's all changed, it's different, the Way of today isn't the same as what they're talking about blah blah blah.

But Rivenbark's been there since the 70's and the current Absence of Trust Trustees are all relatively recent generation flakes, goombahs that have glommed on to the tail of a very aging and decrepit dog in it's final years.

To someone like me - I don't care what someone who came along in the late 80's or the 90's does or thinks - I mean, I do but not if or in a way that validates the Way's integrity to a meaningful degree. To me - the 90's were all built around the pathologies of Martindale - a known quantity of failure and who appears to have had a public nervous breakdown and subsequent injection of personal pathologies on and into the organization he led. The Way never publicly tracked any action taken to correct that or even help him other than to boot him out - a good decision - but not effective if it was the only one.

Leaving the standing cootie platoon of "leadership" in place to 'fix" anything was ludicrous. They're under trained, under experience and under-undered everything to be able to lead anything bigger than a pod of goldfish.

I'm serious. They're nidiots.

When people still come tumbling out of that barrel in New Knoxville with complaints that sound like the same ones that were made 40, 30, 20, 10 years ago -

Duh. Get a clue Clyde.

And oh yeah - Merry Christmas! smile.gif/>

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i like that thing about "they have their rewards"

i never thought about that -- well -- at least not recently

got in '74 and got out when the pukingupapatriarch came out -- i can never remember when that was maybe '87 or so

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Two months ago I saw someone who has been in twi since the mid 70s. I hadn't seen him since the last roa I attended (1994). He was good to me in twi. He invited me to join a music group in St. Louis which opened doors for me to this day, and he picked me to take over his twig when he went in residence. I owe him a debt of gratitude. But, considering what twi has been like since I left, I wasn't sure that seeing him again would be pleasant.

He looked good. He is actually lightened up in some ways from what I remember him to be. He never drank with us back in the day. Didn't seem interested in cultural stuff like pro sports or rock bands. When I saw him 2 months ago we simply did NOT discuss certain things. There were 2 other people there and I didn't tell him why I left twi and he didn't talk about why he didn't, but we played music, drank wine, ate pizza, and had a generally peaceful interaction.

When LCM was still the president, every time I ran into someone from twi it was at best awkward and at worst creepy, but things have GOT to have lightened up since then. That guy that I saw was OK. He really did not seem to be overly burdened down with some agenda. Ironic that VPs ambassador theatre routine in session 7 is more likely to be true of twi people than anybody else for the past 30 years, but not the guy I saw.

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Morning, Johniam. I was in TWI during Rosalie's reign. What you are seeing is the kinder, gentler TWI of her administration. It is kinder and gentler on the outside. So kind and gentle that it's downright flavorless. But that's the surface. Rosalie is better at hiding her controlling methods than LCM was. She is a master of controlling things from behind the scenes through layers of bureaucracy and procedures and paperwork. Those you run into on the field will tell you it's so much better than it was before. That's true. On the surface... But all spontaneity in teaching is gone - it's been regulated away. The Sunday Teaching Service is READ from notecards at the podium, all personality and emotion scrubbed away beforehand by layers of proofreading and corrections. (Ask OldSkool - he went through it first hand.). But on the field it's probably a nicer place to be. Less stressful. Just attend your meetings and give your money and witness and you're good. No weekly a$$-rippings anymore. But when I left it was boring beyond belief. I have to be thankful for that boredom, though. It gave me time to think about things and sort things out. After a horrible micromanaged existence at HQ for two years I thought life out on the field would be better. It was. And it gave me time to sort things through in my head... And see how life on the field reflected life at HQ. Boy, it sure looked pretty on the outside... And was still dead on the inside.

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JJ, you surely have stamina. You managed two years on staff? At that period of TWI's existence? That takes stamina or complete numbness - and you weren't numb. Or dumb.

I thought at one time they might call me onto staff. The thought made my skin crawl. I had to go on some seriously long walks with God to get my head round it and accept that as a possibility. The thought of it still makes my skin crawl.

you've got stamina, girl. Live life to the full. Abundantly, in fact.

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I was in TWI during Rosalie's reign.

I went through the way corpse program, coordinated a dept. at HQ, and was on the presidents cabinet for two years during Rosalie's reign. Let me tell you from first hand experience from having access to Rosalie and witnessing all the so called "changes" that have supposedly made TWI better. It's all about avoiding more lawsuits. Rosie has worked with their lawyers for years to bullet proof their cult from being sued. The Allen lawsuit scared the bejessus out of them, and Rosalie will make damned sure they are never that vulnerable again.

Now, one might surmise that she is doing this to help people, or from a genuine desire to make things better because she has recognized errors in their ways. That would be a dead wrong assumption. She has made these changes very grudgingly, and only because she basically has had to in order to dunk TWI in formaldehyde.

Anecdote:

During one of our weekly cabinet meetings with Rosalie, she went on a rampage because someone who was clergy at HQ skipped the Sunday teaching service to go to their kids little league championship game. She plainly stated during her rantings "that she HATES all the changes that she has had to make in the way ministry since the Allen lawsuit."

She would prefer to have things the way they were during Craig's reign, where she could now be the WOG. She loves controlling people's lives to the minutest of details. People in TWI are just a means to an end to further all things TWI. And people are still disposable. Rosalie takes great pride in being a scheming, manipulative, snake in the grass. She even jokes about her maiden/middle name Fox, in the she is sly as one.

There have been no genuine, godly changes in the way TWI is managed. If anything, it's a cult that has morphed into a religion in order to survive. They have damn near deified Wierwille as some great man of God, and Craig has all but been erased from TWI's history. They have all huddled around an alcoholic, sex addict who was the shepherd who screwed the sheep.

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During one of our weekly cabinet meetings with Rosalie, she went on a rampage because someone who was clergy at HQ skipped the Sunday teaching service to go to their kids little league championship game. She plainly stated during her rantings "that she HATES all the changes that she has had to make in the way ministry since the Allen lawsuit."

f-u rosiedosie you should have been such a loving parent

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f-u rosiedosie you should have been such a loving parent

Including being involved in her kids lives as opposed to marking and avoiding them for their problems and cutting off all communication. What kind of mother does that? Not even those with a kid on death row.

It's all right - Jesus Christ will make it all come out in the wash. I'm sure he'll be well able to point out all of the crucial points in the kids lives where if she would have cared at all or taken ANY positive action at all it would have made a huge difference. He'll be well able to point out the hypocrisy in micromanaging everyone else's life while her own is in shambles - neglecting her God-given responsibilities and politically manipulating moving herself into the presidency of a ministry - what a lie!!! People do lie to themselves and deceive themselves just like I John says. And when it all comes out at the return, people's works will be consumed and the evaluation will be that she had her reward - being recognized as "President" in all of it's little various manifestations.

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I keep in touch with some people that are still active in the Way, see them or communicate few times a year. Great people.

I have fairly clear cut views on certain things and if we were to discuss those things there might be agreement or disagreement. I usually stay out of what's going on "now" because as far as the Way itself goes, I don't really care what's going on now.

I visit their website or go off on them here but I have the same care and concern for them I would anyone else. I don't consider the existing Way Nash a remnant of anything, just the echoes of a distant past for those who remember it. The Way that's there now is not The Way that was envisioned by me or what I was working towards.

Whatever they are now, really are, I'm not involved with them so it's not my concern. They don't affect me or mine - now. So it's not a really big deal.

I care about my friends though and would be happy to discuss anything that's relevant to their lives, their concerns, families, etc.

I can be extremely blunt and anyone that knows me knows that but that's not the "real me". For GS, it's a write/read medium so I use hyperbole and overstatement to make my points clear. When I say "I don't like something" I want it clear that I don't care whether my reasons convince anyone else, my conclusions are what they are, period.

Have they "changed"? Couldn't tell you. If Rivenbark's still running it I would assume for very good reason that it's about like chockfull states.

People involved with the Way now can be very happy though because if they're living honestly and according to their faith they're no better or worse off than anyone else. How honestly does anyone really live, in their heart, at their best? I'm not that judge to say.

As for the influence of the Way, the further you are from their control the better. And for reasons chockfull states they have to be careful now that they realize they have to obey the law and must remain within the parameters of their state, county and city/village laws.

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The only memory I have of Rosalie is from Living Victoriously (1982). She and Bob Winegarner shared the task of MCing the nightly meetings. She seemed like a cookie cutter charming southern lady. Not much to go on, but LindaZ has posted much about what it was like to work with her. Based on that, I don't think I'd want to meet her, formally or otherwise.

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She seemed like a cookie cutter charming southern lady

She certainly acts like this, but there is nothing sweet about the old bag.

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She seemed like a cookie cutter charming southern lady.

She certainly acts like this, but there is nothing sweet about the old bag.

:biglaugh:/>

I have lived in several places in the south, including nearby where she came from, and I have never heard such an awful exaggeration of a southern drawl as she had. All the great southern accents have been beautiful to listen to exept for hers.

To me it always was like fingernails across a blackboard, as was looking at her.

Probably the best spiritual suspicion I ever had. <_</> :blush:/> :blush:/>

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I lived in St Marys for a year in '85. I knew some artists in way publications, which Rosie was running at the time. I was told that you had to sign in and out at restroom need. One could hardly call them breaks. That's all I knew about her-but it was enough to kill any ideas I may have had about working there.

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I lived in St Marys for a year in '85. I knew some artists in way publications, which Rosie was running at the time. I was told that you had to sign in and out at restroom need. One could hardly call them breaks. That's all I knew about her-but it was enough to kill any ideas I may have had about working there.

Rosalie is some sort of control freak. If she had it her way, she would micro manage personal needs out of people's lives so they have "more" to give to the way ministry. She was the one behind the scheduling nightmare inflicted on TWI's followers in the late 90s. I was at HQ during the Allen lawsuit when the orders came down from Rosalie that they no longer could legally collect personal schedules from staffers. They were breaking the law all along and could have cared less. It took the Allen lawsuit to get them to back off.

Prime example of how sick these people really are. With Rosie as the head sicko.

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Rosalie has no soul. By that, I mean she has no "feel" to her. You know how you can tell someone walks into a room or is right behind you even when you don't register it consciously? Rosalie doesn't give off anything. Once, while "treving" (using the HUGE industrial vacuum to clean the carpets) in the OSC, she came up on me. I looked up and almost ran her over before I realized she was there. It gave me the creeps. At the time I renewed my mind by saying to myself that it happened because she was just an extraordinarily peaceful person. Now I think she is (a) sneaky and always has been in the background with no one knowing and (b) she has no soul.

BTW, I used to clean her office. She'll get a copy of this thread printed out (no computer) so she can be kept informed. That was my first exposure to GSC. Reading a thread that she had left on her desk... Yep.

Hi, Linder. Tell Rosalie I wave my buttocks and fart in her general direction.

Also, maybe the bathroom break procedure caused people to hold it too long which would explain the constantly backed up toilets near Rosie's office.

:)

I am a bad, bad, girl.

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BTW, I used to clean her office. She'll get a copy of this thread printed out (no computer) so she can be kept informed. That was my first exposure to GSC. Reading a thread that she had left on her desk... Yep.

She hates computers with a passion and prides herself on not having one in her office. She does have email, but has someone else keep up on it. I have been in Linder's office before when he was browsing and printing GSC threads. The woman has issues.

And ya, hi Rosie. Life is so much better without you and your ilk. Have fun ruling the cornfield and what's left of TWI. Sorry to tell you that you and TWI are not important in the scheme of things.

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She hates computers with a passion and prides herself on not having one in her office. She does have email, but has someone else keep up on it. I have been in Linder's office before when he was browsing and printing GSC threads. The woman has issues.

That strikes me very much as "not having a mortgage" - you don't have a mortgage because you borrowed from your parents and pay them back, ie, you get someone else to do the "dirty work." Rosalie can pride herself on not having a computer because basically she keeps it in someone else's office.

:offtopic:/> On that note, I reckon if he'd been born in our time, Jesus would have been computer literate, had a computer and a mobile phone. Not sure he would have had a Facebook account though, too much else going on in his life. And certainly not a Twitter account.

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I slink in and slink back out occasionally. In Twi in 1972. Left Twi in 1997. "Thrown out" actually AFTER i left.

Found Waydale shortly after I left,which was key to my recovery. Came to GSC after Waydale shut down and hung around until I needed to move on.

Am very happy with my life now and glad to be done with TWI. Feel sorry for thise still stuck there and stuck in between.

Come here once in a great while to make a comment and say hi.

HI!

-=^._.^=- C[_]

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Are you kidding me, Rivenbark prides herself on NOT having a computer?

What an artifact. A Neanderthal, really.

No one will drag her kicking and screaming into the 21st century, eh?

Sad.

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OldSkool said: "That was my first exposure to GSC. Reading a thread that she had left on her desk... Yep."

That is far and away the funniest thing I've read on GSC in years. Thank you for the laugh!!!

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