I always thought that was an excellent basis for condemnation, self- or other, for the hapless soul who was sick. Right up there with "all sickness is the result of sin."
What a strange conglomeration of lies, half-truths, strange doctrines that composed his classes.
Waysider... I worry about you. You seem to have all the class syllabuses, all the books, and can quote line for line what's in them. You can respond to most comments from other Spotters with an exact reference, ie, you know your way around this stuff. Surely you are not ... a secret VP worshipper? :wacko:
Or are you working your way through these materials, gradually bonking each nutty idea on the head?
Seriously, though, when you drag stuff out like this, it gives an opportunity to confront, discuss, and consider what truth (if any) is in the statement.
Considering the ailments VPW suffered from (and cancer takes a long time), then he was "sick" therefore "dead" for a very long time before he actually breathed his last. Folks, we were learning from the living dead...a zombie.
While I could understand sickness being death in part (death to some of der cells), but wouldn't death in whole be called death and not sickness?!
I agree with WG, it sets a basis for condemnation.. All back to seeing the debil in everything. Since the devil is the author of death. And well, if you're sick, then you must have allowed the debil in, cause God isn't the author of death.. Should have planned the debil out of your schedule. Or at least believe enough to thwart his attack.
Pure sadness.. I guess I never really recognized all the condemnation their twisted logic brought to the people.. :(
Yeah, I agree. Death isn't sickness----it's death. Though I can see where sickness could contribute to or even cause death.
Now the part about sickness being death "in part" makes no sense. Is it like some big jig saw puzzle? You put enough pieces together and "presto!", you have death in whole? Like every time you get a cold, another piece of the "jig saw puzzle of death" falls into place? It especially makes no sense when you factor in primary regeneration where cells are replaced by exact duplicates. Where is the death in that? If you say that death applies to the cell being replaced, you have to concede that it's canceled out by its replacement.
I think it's just something he read or heard somewhere and tossed in to show us all how "profound" his insight was.
At first I thought I didn't have a problem with the statement. Then I realized that there isn't really biblical. I would have no problem with the saying "All sickness is the result of Adam's sin." But sickness as death, no; though I will admit it can lead to death in some cases.
1. Primary regeneration------This is a cell by cell, exact duplication.
(Anyone who wears contact lenses and has suffered an abrasion has experienced this one.)
2. Secondary regeneration----- The cells are replaced by the same type of cells but not in a precisely duplicitous fashion.
3. Tertiary regeneration----- The cells are replaced by a different type of cell and may extend beyond the site of the initial insult.
4. Quaternary regeneration-----Simply stated, this would be a cancerous replacement of normal cells.
And then there is the matter of how the body continually replaces cells so that, in due time, none of the cells in your body are the ones you originally entered this world with.
Now, I suppose someone might point to the way some cells sacrifice themselves (die) to fight off infection. But, good golly, did you really need an "Advanced Class" to reiterate lessons from ninth grade biology?
Questions to ponder:
What (if anything) does this really mean?
Is there any scriptural basis to support this?
Did Wierwille, perhaps, simply "borrow" this phrase from some other source?
So much for vp's screwy biology. I think there's maybe something about how our body deals with sickness that puts it in a "better" light for me. Maybe it could be classified as the "upside" of sickness – or turning the tables on sickness.
If my understanding is right on this – turning the tables may be the principle they bank on - or whatever you want to call it - when using vaccines. The idea being – that once a person has survived a viral infection [a sickness – introduced via the vaccine] they have an immunity to the same virus making them sick in the future – their body now knows how to defeat it. So what is that? Fighting fire with fire or something? I dunno.
But anywho - vp's sickness-is-death-in-part-or-whole thing really sounds so profoundly stupid to me now - as only his stuff can. Well, he DID have a gift ministry – of an idiot, so what did you expect anyway.
Maybe there's something to the saying what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. But I just don't see the logic of sickness being death in part/whole. For that matter let's chug a gallon of antifreeze/coolant instead of getting a flu shot. Who knows - it may help deal with hot & cold flashes.
Did Wierwille, perhaps, simply "borrow" this phrase from some other source?
Not that it means much to me since I was never in TWI, but I like the way you're deconstructing/debunking TWI doctrine point-by-point.
Just a couple of comments:
In a sense that statement is true because in the olden days a common cold could easily lead to pneumonia and death. The increase in human life span is primarily due to the development of antibiotics and our ability to treat infectious diseases.
I do believe that cell reproduction is driven by God, the life force. (But God said in Genesis that he would limit man's years to 120.)
after this discussion and the last two i just responded to i am beginning to wonder if "doc vic" was like a neo nazi or something? seriously this stuff sounds like he was trying for a "super race" or something.
When you're sick, cells in your body die. Time and energy is sucked away from you. So yes, in a sense, sickness is death in part.
Didn't you already know that from 9th grade biology? Why did you need to quit your job, spend hundreds of dollars, drive "God only knows how many" miles and sweat through a miserable HQ summer to hear VPW present it like it was just handed down on a stone tablet?
Didn't you already know that from 9th grade biology? Why did you need to quit your job, spend hundreds of dollars, drive "God only knows how many" miles and sweat through a miserable HQ summer to hear VPW present it like it was just handed down on a stone tablet?
Didn't you already know that from 9th grade biology? Why did you need to quit your job, spend hundreds of dollars, drive "God only knows how many" miles and sweat through a miserable HQ summer to hear VPW present it like it was just handed down on a stone tablet?
Small observation: You've just changed from the majority of the posts on this thread that were objecting to the substance of the subject to objecting to the man and his presentation of the substance. You accept the substance, but object to the man who presented it. If the substance was so obvious - "9th grade biology," it makes those who objected to it look awfully stupid.
Personally, I think it was a 1/2 way intelligent discussion. If so many objected to it, maybe it was a valid & necessary point for VP to bring it up as a point of truth - his supposed pretense to the authority of truth dispite your belittling of it as "9th grade biology" notwithstanding.
The increase in human life span is primarily due to the development of antibiotics and our ability to treat infectious diseases.
An incidental point here, but really the increase in lifespan has more to do with clean water and improved sanitation than with medical science. If you're looking for someone to thank for our length of years, your plumber deserves more credit than your doctor...
The above is a quote from the Advanced Class, a class that was touted as holding insight to great spiritual truths. I don't believe for a second that VPW was talking about cell death. If he was, it was certainly condescending of him to do so. Insisting that this justifies his statement only serves to trivialize the discussion and rationalize the fact that this is not a Biblical concept. I think most of us are well aware, to one degree or another, what cell death is and how it works. Ergo, we learned about it in ninth grade biology. In the context of the AC, VPW was clearly suggesting that this "sickness/death" relationship was a spiritual, not simply a physical one. Now let's move on and talk about the statement as it applies to the Advanced Class.
... I don't believe for a second that VPW was talking about cell death. If he was, it was certainly condescending of him to do so. Insisting that this justifies his statement only serves to trivialize the discussion and rationalize the fact that this is not a Biblical concept. I think most of us are well aware, to one degree or another, what cell death is and how it works. Ergo, we learned about it in ninth grade biology. In the context of the AC, VPW was clearly suggesting that this "sickness/death" relationship was a spiritual, not simply a physical one. Now let's move on and talk about the statement as it applies to the Advanced Class.
But was it not YOU who began this discussion by inferring his medical and "biology" knowledge of cells was faulty??
Granted, I'm sure VPW and LCM both had spiritual applications in the fact that death was not from God, ergo, sickness not from God.. But... That has already been mentioned.
And honestly, if I were to actually look over the AC sillybus, it is rather silly any of us traveled so many miles and spent so much $ and wasted our time on that crap. All to hear condemnation about how the debil is in everything. Debil spirits are here, they're their, they're everywhere!!! Oh my, run for your life! Sadly, I didn't get the "run for your life" message the first time I took it.
Recommended Posts
Ham
I think its just another wabbit the vicstermeister pulled out of the hat..
wouldn't suprise me though, if it appeared in Leonard's work, or Kenyon..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
I always thought that was an excellent basis for condemnation, self- or other, for the hapless soul who was sick. Right up there with "all sickness is the result of sin."
What a strange conglomeration of lies, half-truths, strange doctrines that composed his classes.
WG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Waysider... I worry about you. You seem to have all the class syllabuses, all the books, and can quote line for line what's in them. You can respond to most comments from other Spotters with an exact reference, ie, you know your way around this stuff. Surely you are not ... a secret VP worshipper? :wacko:
Or are you working your way through these materials, gradually bonking each nutty idea on the head?
Seriously, though, when you drag stuff out like this, it gives an opportunity to confront, discuss, and consider what truth (if any) is in the statement.
Considering the ailments VPW suffered from (and cancer takes a long time), then he was "sick" therefore "dead" for a very long time before he actually breathed his last. Folks, we were learning from the living dead...a zombie.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Ahhhhh!-------That has to be a GSC classic.
:)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
I can understand some of the thinking coming from a young person, but VPW was old enough to know better.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TrustAndObey
While I could understand sickness being death in part (death to some of der cells), but wouldn't death in whole be called death and not sickness?!
I agree with WG, it sets a basis for condemnation.. All back to seeing the debil in everything. Since the devil is the author of death. And well, if you're sick, then you must have allowed the debil in, cause God isn't the author of death.. Should have planned the debil out of your schedule. Or at least believe enough to thwart his attack.
Pure sadness.. I guess I never really recognized all the condemnation their twisted logic brought to the people.. :(
Link to comment
Share on other sites
frank123lol
In the late 90s Martindale was king,"Weakness brings down strength"he declared.
If you were sick,then you had somthing in your life "off the word"What a witch hunt it became.
could be a book,and object,maybe it was an extra 200 bucks you had that did not see its way to the coffers of twi.
It was horrible,fellowship became a time of questioning your motives for everything you did.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
nyunknown
Sounds like quack science to me. Sold by a snakeoil salesman.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Yeah, I agree. Death isn't sickness----it's death. Though I can see where sickness could contribute to or even cause death.
Now the part about sickness being death "in part" makes no sense. Is it like some big jig saw puzzle? You put enough pieces together and "presto!", you have death in whole? Like every time you get a cold, another piece of the "jig saw puzzle of death" falls into place? It especially makes no sense when you factor in primary regeneration where cells are replaced by exact duplicates. Where is the death in that? If you say that death applies to the cell being replaced, you have to concede that it's canceled out by its replacement.
I think it's just something he read or heard somewhere and tossed in to show us all how "profound" his insight was.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Keith
At first I thought I didn't have a problem with the statement. Then I realized that there isn't really biblical. I would have no problem with the saying "All sickness is the result of Adam's sin." But sickness as death, no; though I will admit it can lead to death in some cases.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
So much for vp's screwy biology. I think there's maybe something about how our body deals with sickness that puts it in a "better" light for me. Maybe it could be classified as the "upside" of sickness – or turning the tables on sickness.
If my understanding is right on this – turning the tables may be the principle they bank on - or whatever you want to call it - when using vaccines. The idea being – that once a person has survived a viral infection [a sickness – introduced via the vaccine] they have an immunity to the same virus making them sick in the future – their body now knows how to defeat it. So what is that? Fighting fire with fire or something? I dunno.
But anywho - vp's sickness-is-death-in-part-or-whole thing really sounds so profoundly stupid to me now - as only his stuff can. Well, he DID have a gift ministry – of an idiot, so what did you expect anyway.
Maybe there's something to the saying what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. But I just don't see the logic of sickness being death in part/whole. For that matter let's chug a gallon of antifreeze/coolant instead of getting a flu shot. Who knows - it may help deal with hot & cold flashes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
soul searcher
Not that it means much to me since I was never in TWI, but I like the way you're deconstructing/debunking TWI doctrine point-by-point.
Just a couple of comments:
In a sense that statement is true because in the olden days a common cold could easily lead to pneumonia and death. The increase in human life span is primarily due to the development of antibiotics and our ability to treat infectious diseases.
I do believe that cell reproduction is driven by God, the life force. (But God said in Genesis that he would limit man's years to 120.)
I'm just thinking out loud. Carry on. :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
we're all fru cking dying a little bit at a time i guess
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom
Way to cut to the quick, girl.
Love ya,
Happy New Year!!
Tom
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
oh i love you too litwin !!!!! so much !!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
brainfixed
after this discussion and the last two i just responded to i am beginning to wonder if "doc vic" was like a neo nazi or something? seriously this stuff sounds like he was trying for a "super race" or something.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
in his sicko psycho dreams the loser
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
When you're sick, cells in your body die. Time and energy is sucked away from you. So yes, in a sense, sickness is death in part.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Didn't you already know that from 9th grade biology? Why did you need to quit your job, spend hundreds of dollars, drive "God only knows how many" miles and sweat through a miserable HQ summer to hear VPW present it like it was just handed down on a stone tablet?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
My dad told me too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom
Small observation: You've just changed from the majority of the posts on this thread that were objecting to the substance of the subject to objecting to the man and his presentation of the substance. You accept the substance, but object to the man who presented it. If the substance was so obvious - "9th grade biology," it makes those who objected to it look awfully stupid.
Personally, I think it was a 1/2 way intelligent discussion. If so many objected to it, maybe it was a valid & necessary point for VP to bring it up as a point of truth - his supposed pretense to the authority of truth dispite your belittling of it as "9th grade biology" notwithstanding.
Tom
Link to comment
Share on other sites
George Aar
An incidental point here, but really the increase in lifespan has more to do with clean water and improved sanitation than with medical science. If you're looking for someone to thank for our length of years, your plumber deserves more credit than your doctor...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
"Sickness is death in part or in whole."
The above is a quote from the Advanced Class, a class that was touted as holding insight to great spiritual truths. I don't believe for a second that VPW was talking about cell death. If he was, it was certainly condescending of him to do so. Insisting that this justifies his statement only serves to trivialize the discussion and rationalize the fact that this is not a Biblical concept. I think most of us are well aware, to one degree or another, what cell death is and how it works. Ergo, we learned about it in ninth grade biology. In the context of the AC, VPW was clearly suggesting that this "sickness/death" relationship was a spiritual, not simply a physical one. Now let's move on and talk about the statement as it applies to the Advanced Class.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
TrustAndObey
But was it not YOU who began this discussion by inferring his medical and "biology" knowledge of cells was faulty??
Granted, I'm sure VPW and LCM both had spiritual applications in the fact that death was not from God, ergo, sickness not from God.. But... That has already been mentioned.
And honestly, if I were to actually look over the AC sillybus, it is rather silly any of us traveled so many miles and spent so much $ and wasted our time on that crap. All to hear condemnation about how the debil is in everything. Debil spirits are here, they're their, they're everywhere!!! Oh my, run for your life! Sadly, I didn't get the "run for your life" message the first time I took it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.