Devil Spirits

OldSkool · July 14, 2010

Devil spirits seem to be the de-facto cause of anything even remotely anti-the way international. Even in spite of the way international's own wrong doings perpetrated by the board of dummies.

Obviously, this was used as a control and separation tactic starting from the early days of VeePee. Example:

Allegation - Miss Victim had sex with VeePee on the motor coach.

Response - Miss Victim is possessed with lying spirits and should be avoided.

Just a true to life example intended to make the point. But then the way international tells it's followers that they do the works of Jesus Christ. Can anyone find one record where Jesus warned his followers to avoid so and so because they were a willing host to devil spirits? Thought not - he CAST OUT the spirits!

What does the way international do? They accuse people of being possessed and then cast out the supposed possessed person! Then they issue warnings to those still in the way international to stay away from so and so because they are possessed.

But one of my all time favorites is the term "courting devil spirits." Ain't that a bitch? I've seen this tactic used to divide families. Example: "Your father is either possessed or courting major devil spirits." I've had similar statements used against my own family members. My sister is a chronic alcoholic and my mother's fellowship coordinator told her that "her daughter was a sinking ship and would take her down too unless she stayed away." Thankfully my mother left the cult about the same time I did and has since mended fences with my sister and started attending Al-anon meetings.

Just to reiterate for the lurking innies. Jesus cast out spirits not people! NOT ONE RECORD of him casting out people. Many, many records of him casting out the spirits though and keeping the people. Just a thought...eh?

WordWolf · July 14, 2010

(snip)

Just to reiterate for the lurking innies. Jesus cast out spirits not people! NOT ONE RECORD of him casting out people. Many, many records of him casting out the spirits though and keeping the people. Just a thought...eh?

Even twi will tell you that Jesus Christ never cast out JUDAS ISCARIOT-

the very man who betrayed him with a kiss, and betrayed him for 30 pieces of silver.

chockfull · July 14, 2010

What more direct proof do you need that God is not working in these people? Jesus actually had the spiritual power to cast out devil spirits and heal people. With a true movement of God you see this type of thing as well genuinely happening. No condemning of the people, just delivering them.

However, in TWI these people do not have spiritual power over the adversary. God is not working in them. So without this power, all they can do is label the people and stay away from them.

It's not that God doesn't have the power to deliver people, to heal people.

It absolutely is that these people by the fruit of their lives have departed from God and performed atrocities against God's people. God will no longer work in them. They have no spiritual power - they are running completely by the 5 senses. They cannot cast out spirits. All they can do is mark and avoid people, place them on 'spiritual probation', lie about them and warn people away from them.

The Way - NO power over the adversary.

If you want deliverance from something - look somewhere else.

JavaJane · July 14, 2010

And.... if as TWI teaches, Lucifer only took one-third of the angels with him when he fell, then why is so much emphasis placed on the "devil spirit realm"? And why is it that it is taboo to speak about angels (who are godly)? Why is it that guardian angels and angels that are talked about are considered to be devil spirits??

Hmmm.....

And why is it that VP thought the word "demon" was too "cute" to describe "devil spirits"??

The whole thing is wacky.

TrustAndObey · July 14, 2010

What does the way international do? They accuse people of being possessed and then cast out the supposed possessed person! Then they issue warnings to those still in the way international to stay away from so and so because they are possessed.

Just to reiterate for the lurking innies. Jesus cast out spirits not people! NOT ONE RECORD of him casting out people. Many, many records of him casting out the spirits though and keeping the people. Just a thought...eh?

Well said.. And I don't think I had ever thought about it that way either.. :eusa_clap:

Just seems rather silly too.. How dare you let us rob you blind.. You're possessed, go, get out of here.. lol.. Just plain silly..

Oh I'm sorry you got raped, only possessed people get raped.. What do you mean you were talked into having an abortion, only a possessed person would follow our advice and then complain about it! And how dare you have real family and friends that care and not in our cult, there is definitely devil spirits at work in your life!

I'm sorry if I'm making light for those who truly were hurt.. I don't mean to offend, you certainly were not possessed. They were! You needed help, they attacked. You needed comfort, they bruised you more. You needed a true friend, and they threw you to the wolves. No, a normal person would be ashamed of such behavior.. But not TWI.. No, they call the good evil and the evil good. How dare they!

Edited July 14, 2010 by TrustAndObey

Nottawayfer · July 14, 2010

Using P&F Allen as an example, I remember we were told in our departments they were escorted off grounds because they were making very disparaging accusations against the BOT. Those on Staff were blind for another year until the law suit came out and portions of truth HAD to come out because we could read it in the newspaper. I got a kick seeing so many Staffers going to town to buy papers so they could see what was being said. They knew we weren't given the whole story. I don't remember being told the Allens were possessed, but they were definitely spoken badly of so we would take the side of the BOT.

We know the truth now.

WordWolf · July 14, 2010

Well said.. And I don't think I had ever thought about it that way either..

Just seems rather silly too.. How dare you let us rob you blind.. You're possessed, go, get out of here.. lol.. Just plain silly..

Oh I'm sorry you got raped, only possessed people get raped.. What do you mean you were talked into having an abortion, only a possessed person would follow our advice and then complain about it! And how dare you have real family and friends that care and not in our cult, there is definitely devil spirits at work in your life!

I'm sorry if I'm making light for those who truly were hurt.. I don't mean to offend, you certainly were not possessed. They were! You needed help, they attacked. You needed comfort, they bruised you more. You needed a true friend, and they threw you to the wolves. No, a normal person would be ashamed of such behavior.. But not TWI.. No, they call the good evil and the evil good. How dare they!

Isaiah 5:19 (KJV)

20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

========================================================

1 Peter 3:15-16 (New American Standard Bible)

15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

16and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

==============================================

Psalm 35 (NASB)

1Contend, O LORD, with those who contend with me;

Fight against those who fight against me.

2Take hold of buckler and shield

And rise up for my help.

3Draw also the spear and the battle-axe to meet those who pursue me;

Say to my soul, "I am your salvation."

4Let those be ashamed and dishonored who seek my life;

Let those be turned back and humiliated who devise evil against me.

5Let them be like chaff before the wind,

With the angel of the LORD driving them on.

6Let their way be dark and slippery,

With the angel of the LORD pursuing them.

7For without cause they hid their net for me;

Without cause they dug a pit for my soul.

8Let destruction come upon him unawares,

And let the net which he hid catch himself;

Into that very destruction let him fall.

9And my soul shall rejoice in the LORD;

It shall exult in His salvation.

10All my bones will say, "LORD, who is like You,

Who delivers the afflicted from him who is too strong for him,

And the afflicted and the needy from him who robs him?"

11Malicious witnesses rise up;

They ask me of things that I do not know.

12They repay me evil for good,

To the bereavement of my soul.

13But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth;

I humbled my soul with fasting,

And my prayer kept returning to my bosom.

14I went about as though it were my friend or brother;

I bowed down mourning, as one who sorrows for a mother.

15But at my stumbling they rejoiced and gathered themselves together;

The smiters whom I did not know gathered together against me,

They slandered me without ceasing.

16Like godless jesters at a feast,

They gnashed at me with their teeth.

17Lord, how long will You look on?

Rescue my soul from their ravages,

My only life from the lions.

18I will give You thanks in the great congregation;

I will praise You among a mighty throng.

19Do not let those who are wrongfully my enemies rejoice over me;

Nor let those who hate me without cause wink maliciously.

20For they do not speak peace,

But they devise deceitful words against those who are quiet in the land.

21They opened their mouth wide against me;

They said, "Aha, aha, our eyes have seen it!"

22You have seen it, O LORD, do not keep silent;

O Lord, do not be far from me.

23Stir up Yourself, and awake to my right

And to my cause, my God and my Lord.

24Judge me, O LORD my God, according to Your righteousness,

And do not let them rejoice over me.

25Do not let them say in their heart, "Aha, our desire!"

Do not let them say, "We have swallowed him up!"

26Let those be ashamed and humiliated altogether who rejoice at my distress;

Let those be clothed with shame and dishonor who magnify themselves over me.

27Let them shout for joy and rejoice, who favor my vindication;

And let them say continually, "The LORD be magnified,

Who delights in the prosperity of His servant."

28And my tongue shall declare Your righteousness

And Your praise all day long.

OldSkool · July 14, 2010

Using P&F Allen as an example, I remember we were told in our departments they were escorted off grounds because they were making very disparaging accusations against the BOT. Those on Staff were blind for another year until the law suit came out and portions of truth HAD to come out because we could read it in the newspaper. I got a kick seeing so many Staffers going to town to buy papers so they could see what was being said. They knew we weren't given the whole story. I don't remember being told the Allens were possessed, but they were definitely spoken badly of so we would take the side of the BOT.

We know the truth now.

HA! Same old cover up methods reportedly used by Victor Paul Wierwille, except this time they didn't work! Love it.

skyrider · July 14, 2010

Just to reiterate for the lurking innies. Jesus cast out spirits not people! NOT ONE RECORD of him casting out people. Many, many records of him casting out the spirits though and keeping the people. Just a thought...eh?

This thread addresses :evildenk: spirits......

In wierwille's advanced class, he taught that CANCER was a devil spirit.

Why didn't the top cahoonahs CAST OUT THAT CANCER SPIRIT IN WIERWILLE BEFORE HE DIED?

:mooner:

Edited July 14, 2010 by skyrider

DrWearWord · July 14, 2010

I was taught by "the way" that every time I made love to my gay lover that I was being possessed by demons.

I will never take authoritatively any religion that defaces my sacred rite to being gay and following my heart and love.

Or shall we all go back to pre arranged marriages and have people committing suicide and joining convents just to escape heterosexual and pre arranged marriages?

It took me many years to get over the emotional damage that the way and biblical doctrine did to my head and heart. I have learned to reject it all!!! FIRST! then, and only then, if God has an issue with me he/she can get of their fat lazy butt and tell me themselves... I don't need false prophets and teachers filling me with their homophobia while my heart has ordained another way for me.

I would rather go to hell than be untrue to my heart. Spirit is invisible... but DNA is quite visible and the reason for why people are gay. Conservative Christians are still in the jungles with the apes trying to evolve into liberals.

Edited July 14, 2010 by DrWearWord

waysider · July 14, 2010

So how could VP (You know he wasn't really a doctor, don't you?) Wierwille stand in front of auditoriums filled with eager AC students and proclaim that this and that were caused by devil spirits when all the while his own lifestyle was an epitomization of what he was teaching? Simple. He didn't really believe it himself. He was like the used car salesman who tells you the car that has caught your eye was previously owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church on Sunday morning.

excathedra · July 15, 2010

drwearword, so so so sorry. i'm glad you're okay now

courting devil spirits -- in my time we were entertaining them

not sure which is worse -- i guess courting

all this stuff is so stupid

Allegation - Miss Victim had sex with VeePee on the motor coach.
Response - Miss Victim is possessed with lying spirits and should be avoided.

this is a tough one for me. knowing that frikkin wierwille (you know he wasn't a doctor right? lol) counseled me to get over being sexually abused as a child by men in family -- you know the stinking story -- he was the healer of that particualr possession i guess

DrWearWord · July 15, 2010

this is a tough one for me. knowing that frikkin wierwille (you know he wasn't a doctor right? lol) counseled me to get over being sexually abused as a child by men in family -- you know the stinking story -- he was the healer of that particualr possession i guess

Waking up from "the way" was harder than it was being lulled to sleep by the idiotic doctrines. I learned early that to outright deny "God" was "the way" to truth and holiness. A collegiate lesbian in a bar in Maine set me free, not Wierwille.

If God does have a problem with our denial of his/her laws, well, God does have a mouth (it is called consequence) and he/she will eventually tell us.