I was in rez when LCM recorded his Advanced Class. He had a trial run first. It seemed pretty good to me at the time. But by then I was much more of a Wayferhead. Even so, it didn't stop me being aware of some basic "wordly" errors (like grammatical stuff).
Some of the sessions were where we seated in the auditorium in front of him. Then we were banished to the side room and watched him on a video link. He said that he found himself teaching to the needs of the people sitting in front of him, rather than to the needs of the people who would watch the class on video.
Or was that Defeating the Adversary???
Then there were various Advanced Class Specials and such like.
In common with other inrez Corps, we saw nothing of these as we were busy "serving" and doing support roles. At one such, I was working 20 hr days on Beverage Crew. (Try doing that for two weeks and keeping a smile on your face. When I burst into tears and had a hissy fit after about 10 days, I got reamed out for letting DSs infiltrate my thinking and trying to wreck the class. However, one of my Corps sisters with a lighter role did offer to help me by doing my laundry.)
So you could say, my expectations for the AC were - work, work, work, and more work. :unsure:
He said that he found himself teaching to the needs of the people sitting in front of him, rather than to the needs of the people who would watch the class on video.
That's corny.
So you could say, my expectations for the AC were - work, work, work, and more work
Nothing like having other people pay the way international (aka spiritual partners) for students to do slave labor on four hours of sleep a day.
Before I took the AC I'd heard that it was a "servant's class". I was already a twig coordinator for 2 years before taking it. I thought taking the AC would make me better at "serving" the people in my twig. Sadly, I can't say that it did. Don't think it made me WORSE, just not noticeably better.
Before I took the AC I'd heard that it was a "servant's class". I was already a twig coordinator for 2 years before taking it. I thought taking the AC would make me better at "serving" the people in my twig. Sadly, I can't say that it did. Don't think it made me WORSE, just not noticeably better.
I agree.....no significant change after taking advanced class.
And, lots of other information......the marxist minstrels, illuminati, the thirteenth tribe, the myth of the six milion, etc.
....all these tangents didn't help me to serve my twig either. Just seemed like wierwille was using "filler material" to
expand the class and AVOID TEACHING SPECIFICS on the other six manifestations.
I agree.....no significant change after taking advanced class.
And, lots of other information......the marxist minstrels, illuminati, the thirteenth tribe, the myth of the six milion, etc.
....all these tangents didn't help me to serve my twig either. Just seemed like wierwille was using "filler material" to
expand the class and AVOID TEACHING SPECIFICS on the other six manifestations.
The advanced class was a disappointment to me.
The newly, unimproved whitewashed class is no better. Craig taught his version of the advanced class to complete the way of abundance and power series. And it was very long and boring, with him screaming his head off towards the beginning of the class and many, many hours of him reading old testament records with comments smattered throughout in a monotone voice. We all know scandal had him removed from office, so Rosie has various cabinet men reteach the material. It went from bad to worse. Now they are selling a POS class with other people reading a crappy syllabus at $450.00 (unless it went up) and you have to get your own hotel!
Oh, and the syllabus is loaded with contradictions where Martindale would say something over here and contradict the same a few segments later.
Oh, and as a testimony to how inefficient Rosie is at getting things done - reworking the advanced class syllabus and having a new panel of teachers present it has taken her.......drum roll please......12 YEARS AND COUNTING!
Actually, OldSkool, the AC was recorded way before all the rest of it. The AC was recorded about 1992 or 1993. Then (I think) the Intermediate. Finally the Foundational one, WAP (which happily I never endured).
My expectations. I think the same as most.. Learn how to operate the other 6 manifestations... And maybe meet someone while there.. lol
And what did they teach. The other 6 manifestations won't happen until the moon is blue, a new heaven and earth, hell froze over, pigs fly, oh and elephants too.. While that may not be their words, they did say
A) It required YOU to do A.B.C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.K.L.M.... more if I think about it..
B) The other person that may be involved (wanting to be healed, etc..) to be doing A.B.C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.K.L.M....
C) God wanting and telling you to take action....
It was pretty much summed up like that so if it never worked for you, there was at least some variable that they could say, but.. that part wasn't right. You, them, God.. Someone wasn't perfectly in alignment. Their excuse, their out, of why nothing ever happens. And usually, it was on you! You weren't believing, you weren't SIT enough, you didn't have everything aligned, you weren't picturing it, you ...
Long story short, you are not perfect, but you knew that! Oh, but you know those other 3 manifestations.. They happen irregardless. They're so simple an idiot can do it irregardless of the circumstance. Even when their raping women in their own congregation. Yes, even that doesn't stop you from manifesting.
And usually, it was on you! You weren't believing, you weren't SIT enough, you didn't have everything aligned, you weren't picturing it, you ...
Yep!!! Happened to me and the Mrs. first hand and is one of the main reasons we left TWI - their formulas and dogmas DO NOT WORK of themselves like they promise. It's presented as when the person giving and the person receiving are all in alignment with God then it happens. So so many conditions must be fulfilled according to TWI and the BAM! Jesus never operated that way in the gospels. Even the record of the father who did not believe was handled so easily and them his child was healed at that moment. God does not place onerous conditions on people that are impossible to fulfill.
OldSkool, are you saying that Jacqui H is another of LCM's women? If so, when, what sort of time period?
(Mind you, doesn't surprise me...have ceased to be surprised by such revelations.
I thought the H0rn3ys were basically all right. J was quite fun to be around and quite laid back. E had a sterner side. He liked getting stuck into work though, hard worker, led from the front as far as I could ascertain. (They were my Corps Coords). He gave us some serious tickings-off though and once threatened to kick us all out because some weren't wearing hats on a calm day when the air temp was subzero, and a few other things like that. I got the impression that it wasn't really "him" but something he'd learned as an add-on, or been told to do or was trying to measure up to doing.
Anyway back to the AC - too long ago to remember, but from high expectations, I wondered if I'd missed something.
I did find some time afterwards though to study (alone) various words relating to healing, cure, etc, an interest from the AC.
Also studied some stuff about what are signs, what are miracles, and what are wonders, and who each is aimed at. That was interesting.
Yeah I think E like most of the way "leaders" walked around like he was some sort of "tough guy"
I believe the majority of of the "leaders" could'nt "Cut the mustard" in the real world so they become a leader in the way where absolute obedience to a leader is required.
When I first knew Ed, he seemed like a nice guy, diligent, hardworking, honest - strict, but wanted to get the best out of people. Over the time, however, as he settled more into being Corps Coord, he got harder and less fun to be around.
No telling what pressures had been exerted on him by LCM.
Maybe even at that stage he was disgusted by him but like so many, didn't know what to do, or thought he could change things from the inside.
Or maybe in an effort to fix things he was just wading deeper and deeper into the mire.
When I first knew Ed, he seemed like a nice guy, diligent, hardworking, honest - strict, but wanted to get the best out of people. Over the time, however, as he settled more into being Corps Coord, he got harder and less fun to be around.
That guy's whole existence centered around his absolute blind obedience to LCM. In times where okus prime was on a rampage and axing his peers in leadership right and left, that guy was the prime example of "who do you stand with?". He would sacrifice anything, even his own wife, to solidify his relationship with that man. He knew that was his ticket up in the organization, and he played it well, surpassing his peers and other leaders who had been around longer. It was only when the lawsuits came out, and the lawyers forced the "confessions" of LCM that JH's deeds came to light, then he was blackballed from higher levels of leadership.
There was a tremendous amount of hype surrounding the Advanced Class.
What were your expectations going in?
What was your biggest let down, after finishing it?
(By "after finishing it", I mean immediately after completing it.)
When I first got in the ministry there were people in my twig that were advanced class grads. Sometimes they would go to "advanced clas grad weekends" or other meetings. They whet my appetite by telling me that what they were a part of was "closed corporation", they couldn't tell me about it at all. I couldn't wait to take the AC so that I too could go to these exclusive meetings where the topics were of such top level spiritual material.
Then I finally got to go. My class was a video of the AC '79 by VPW. Wow, I was finally there! The excitement of being there carried me for a few days. But towards the end of the first week I began to think there was something wrong with me. Everyone else seemed so excited and seemed like they were "getting it" and I wasn't.
One of the biggest disappointments was that after stories of God working so mightily and in spectacular ways in people of our day (black hearts, white hearts, who's going to win the next horse race, bumps on the back of someone's hand that would reveal how to minister healing) we would be told that God didn't work that way any more. Those were in the category of phenomena and we weren't supposed to look for anything like that. We weren't to ask for signs though it was clear that VPW and others did exactly that.
By the end of the class I felt like I had missed something. Surely I was asleep when the really cool stuff was taught. I had more questions than answers. I think I walked with less power after the AC then before.
I think I walked with less power after the AC then before.
I think that just about sums it up.
We got those "16 keys to walking in the spirit" and it all became paint-by-numbers, gotta do it this way, and rather than walking by the spirit, we ended up straight-jacketing the spirit.
Quench not the spirit!
Which puts the AC in direct contravention of what God says.
I'll throw this in here...I believe in the concept of "walking with God". That's what the AC was supposed to help us do, but "walking with God" implies that God is in the equation. If the first thing that pops in your mind is 16 keys or endless one liners, then where's God?
I'll throw this in here...I believe in the concept of "walking with God". That's what the AC was supposed to help us do, but "walking with God" implies that God is in the equation. If the first thing that pops in your mind is 16 keys or endless one liners, then where's God?
Be careful, John.......you are starting to come over to the "dark side" with this line of questioning.
I think I walked with less power after the AC then before.
good point -- even more so when i went into way corps training....
when i was a "new" person (not PFAL grad), i was so excited and young, i think god was actually working in me with me whatev -- the only thing i was thinking about was helping people
it has happened to me also since leaving the way
i wish it would happen more, but i'm sad and bogged down with some personal horrible problems and maybe i'm not listening to god anymore -- i just need his help so desparately -- for someone in my own life -- that i can't seem to think about anything else
Ex: You still do. It just feels different. I think about what Paul said...that single people care about the things of the Lord but married people care about the things of this world. I think that transfers to kids as well. You know God hasn't gone anywhere. I pray that whatever these problems are God will give you closure, healing, whatever you need.
Skyrider: Aw, c'mon. I don't think of any of you as evil. Overtaken in a fault? Conformed to this world? Maybe, but not evil, or dark.
I'll throw this in here...I believe in the concept of "walking with God". That's what the AC was supposed to help us do, but "walking with God" implies that God is in the equation. If the first thing that pops in your mind is 16 keys or endless one liners, then where's God?
The "first thing" in the head deal sure got out of hand.
Some of the stuff - the physical indicators - who knows. I know there's all manner of things possible and would vouch for the veracity of what I read in the Bible.
That God provides, I believe, now as then. That He will provide on demand and in a way I prescribe - no, don't believe that.
I personally learned through the A.C. that all of this kind of stuff - "revelation", whatever - happens very quickly, very fast and in relation to how I normally think and act, much faster. "Faster" is a word that doesn't exactly describe what I'm thinking but close - when it's occurring it's like how you might respond to a gust of wind that blows up and past you. That's not exactly what I mean either but when Jesus said something like that in John 3:8 I can see it in the same way in the broader context of life and what goes on.
Me, I'd never encourage another to not look to God, to pray, to expect God's guidance in their own affairs. Working that out in one's life is an individual effort. Any one who says they can predict it, demand it, produce it at will - nuts, IMO.
Didn't they tell us it's available to walk by the spirit 24/7? I don't need to walk by the spirit to get dressed, get in my car, drive it, do my work, etc. My whole day is consumed with things like that. SOME down time maybe, but when Jesus walked by the spirit he just spoke and did things that were right, sometimes on the fly. He told Peter flesh and blood did not reveal this to him.
Once I lived with a couple; my room was down stairs, theirs was upstairs. I had spent probably an hour in my room and I walked upstairs to the kitchen and the man came in and told me that I was walking with God by deciding to come upstairs. ????? He said he needed to talk to me right then. ???? Can't remember what he wanted to talk about.
quote:
I personally learned through the A.C. that all of this kind of stuff - "revelation", whatever - happens very quickly, very fast and in relation to how I normally think and act.
Glad you said that. This is weird. I lived with this believer in a 1 bedroom apt. It was Sunday afternoon. The roommate wasn't there. I sat down and started reading the funnies. At that time I did not normally read the funnies. Wasn't part of my habit patterns. Yet, I just found myself reading the funnies. One part of the STL Post-dispatch Sunday funnies was something called 'our own oddities'. People would send in stories or anecdotes and the paper staff would select a few of them and illustrate them with a brief cartoon. That day. one of the selections was a woman who found a contact lens which had been stuck in her eye for 4 years. I spent 1 hour reading the funnies and stopped.
Just then my roommate came back. Within 1 minute he said he couldn't find one of his contact lenses. I quickly told him with confidence that it was in his eye. He looked at me weird and checked it out. No luck. Fifteen minutes later he checked again. Bingo! I told him I believed God worked in me to read the funnies which led to the story about the lost contact lens and that was why I felt compelled to read the funnies when I normally wouldn't. He looked at me funny again. The next day he worked with our twig leader who lived with the area leader. I never heard about the contact lens again, but I suspect my roommate told the twig leader what happened and asked if this was possible. Next thing I knew I was going to be twig coordinator when the current one went in res.
Yet, to this day I don't feel comfortable saying I was definitely walking by the spirit. Oh, sure, you could make a case for it, but is that proof? Maybe, maybe not, but that was what I thought of when you said "in relation to how I normally think and act".
LCM's "first thought" reinvented VPW's point which allowed for "if" - there was no guarantee that the revelation would be there, occur, float by, whatever.
At the same time though VPW strongly implied that "all 9 all the time" was the order of the day. An individual should expect action. So where do you draw the line? I put it just right of center, more conservative and cautious.
Yeh, LCM was a first thoughter alright. It really was funny in an bad sort of way that LCM (and others) would so quickly take an idea and just amp it up and "establish" it even further, just pound it into the ground to a pulp. He had a really irksome way of making an idea into a bunch of jargonish gobbeledee gook and then act like
"well, that's it! it's just got to become a part of our logic, our thinking, our thought patterns so that it becomes a part of the fiber of our everyday walks with the Father so that we can then prevail above and beyond those things of which we've been taught and to the extent that we can, with believing action, move out, standing upon the promises that we've been given in this day and time and as we speak the greatness of the Word of God will come into fruition in that every day walk for the Father. "
And stuff.
1. It's an unseemly approach, I agree johniam - for want of a better word. Kind of buys into the same keg that's producing all of the last decade's "warrior" mentality amongst some Christians, the "I've got power and I'm not afraid to use it!" ex Way posturing, the x-treme for Jesus stuff. Trendy.
2. First thought is a bad way to phrase any of this - picture VPW in class snapping his fingers and saying "When you're really walking baby (snap snap) it's just right there, with real dynamic and an effervescence (snap snap), you're just walking, you just know that you know (snap snap)...that's it baby!" Sounded like Ginger Ale during a Castanet playoff.
3. "The walk" part of it all is pretty much the point and that idea relates well to what's in the Bible. Discussing those kinds of things - like a "16 keys" is fine IMO, reading records, hearing stor-eez, etc. It's not a big deal. Expecting that's what's going to happen all the time and the "walk" of power is some kind of 24 hour drill is nuts though, and produces the kinds of eccentricities and superstitions that we saw in the Way.
4. It served a lot of different interests to mysticize this stuff and give it a lot of Ooooh factor.
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Twinky
I was in rez when LCM recorded his Advanced Class. He had a trial run first. It seemed pretty good to me at the time. But by then I was much more of a Wayferhead. Even so, it didn't stop me being aware of some basic "wordly" errors (like grammatical stuff).
Some of the sessions were where we seated in the auditorium in front of him. Then we were banished to the side room and watched him on a video link. He said that he found himself teaching to the needs of the people sitting in front of him, rather than to the needs of the people who would watch the class on video.
Or was that Defeating the Adversary???
Then there were various Advanced Class Specials and such like.
In common with other inrez Corps, we saw nothing of these as we were busy "serving" and doing support roles. At one such, I was working 20 hr days on Beverage Crew. (Try doing that for two weeks and keeping a smile on your face. When I burst into tears and had a hissy fit after about 10 days, I got reamed out for letting DSs infiltrate my thinking and trying to wreck the class.
However, one of my Corps sisters with a lighter role did offer to help me by doing my laundry.)
So you could say, my expectations for the AC were - work, work, work, and more work. :unsure:
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OldSkool
That's corny.
Nothing like having other people pay the way international (aka spiritual partners) for students to do slave labor on four hours of sleep a day.
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johniam
Expectations?
Before I took the AC I'd heard that it was a "servant's class". I was already a twig coordinator for 2 years before taking it. I thought taking the AC would make me better at "serving" the people in my twig. Sadly, I can't say that it did. Don't think it made me WORSE, just not noticeably better.
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skyrider
I agree.....no significant change after taking advanced class.
And, lots of other information......the marxist minstrels, illuminati, the thirteenth tribe, the myth of the six milion, etc.
....all these tangents didn't help me to serve my twig either. Just seemed like wierwille was using "filler material" to
expand the class and AVOID TEACHING SPECIFICS on the other six manifestations.
The advanced class was a disappointment to me.
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OldSkool
The newly, unimproved whitewashed class is no better. Craig taught his version of the advanced class to complete the way of abundance and power series. And it was very long and boring, with him screaming his head off towards the beginning of the class and many, many hours of him reading old testament records with comments smattered throughout in a monotone voice. We all know scandal had him removed from office, so Rosie has various cabinet men reteach the material. It went from bad to worse. Now they are selling a POS class with other people reading a crappy syllabus at $450.00 (unless it went up) and you have to get your own hotel!
Oh, and the syllabus is loaded with contradictions where Martindale would say something over here and contradict the same a few segments later.
Oh, and as a testimony to how inefficient Rosie is at getting things done - reworking the advanced class syllabus and having a new panel of teachers present it has taken her.......drum roll please......12 YEARS AND COUNTING!
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Twinky
Actually, OldSkool, the AC was recorded way before all the rest of it. The AC was recorded about 1992 or 1993. Then (I think) the Intermediate. Finally the Foundational one, WAP (which happily I never endured).
And now Rosie has re-done them....
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OldSkool
Thanks! 92-93 was pre-OldSkool
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TrustAndObey
My expectations. I think the same as most.. Learn how to operate the other 6 manifestations... And maybe meet someone while there.. lol
And what did they teach. The other 6 manifestations won't happen until the moon is blue, a new heaven and earth, hell froze over, pigs fly, oh and elephants too.. While that may not be their words, they did say
A) It required YOU to do A.B.C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.K.L.M.... more if I think about it..
B) The other person that may be involved (wanting to be healed, etc..) to be doing A.B.C.D.E.F.G.H.I.J.K.L.M....
C) God wanting and telling you to take action....
It was pretty much summed up like that so if it never worked for you, there was at least some variable that they could say, but.. that part wasn't right. You, them, God.. Someone wasn't perfectly in alignment. Their excuse, their out, of why nothing ever happens. And usually, it was on you! You weren't believing, you weren't SIT enough, you didn't have everything aligned, you weren't picturing it, you ...
Long story short, you are not perfect, but you knew that! Oh, but you know those other 3 manifestations.. They happen irregardless. They're so simple an idiot can do it irregardless of the circumstance. Even when their raping women in their own congregation. Yes, even that doesn't stop you from manifesting.
Oh the hypocrisy
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OldSkool
Yep!!! Happened to me and the Mrs. first hand and is one of the main reasons we left TWI - their formulas and dogmas DO NOT WORK of themselves like they promise. It's presented as when the person giving and the person receiving are all in alignment with God then it happens. So so many conditions must be fulfilled according to TWI and the BAM! Jesus never operated that way in the gospels. Even the record of the father who did not believe was handled so easily and them his child was healed at that moment. God does not place onerous conditions on people that are impossible to fulfill.
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mudflaps
Yeah I think E like most of the way "leaders" walked around like he was some sort of "tough guy"
I believe the majority of of the "leaders" could'nt "Cut the mustard" in the real world so they become a leader in the way where absolute obedience to a leader is required.
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Twinky
When I first knew Ed, he seemed like a nice guy, diligent, hardworking, honest - strict, but wanted to get the best out of people. Over the time, however, as he settled more into being Corps Coord, he got harder and less fun to be around.
No telling what pressures had been exerted on him by LCM.
Maybe even at that stage he was disgusted by him but like so many, didn't know what to do, or thought he could change things from the inside.
Or maybe in an effort to fix things he was just wading deeper and deeper into the mire.
Now back to the AC...
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chockfull
That guy's whole existence centered around his absolute blind obedience to LCM. In times where okus prime was on a rampage and axing his peers in leadership right and left, that guy was the prime example of "who do you stand with?". He would sacrifice anything, even his own wife, to solidify his relationship with that man. He knew that was his ticket up in the organization, and he played it well, surpassing his peers and other leaders who had been around longer. It was only when the lawsuits came out, and the lawyers forced the "confessions" of LCM that JH's deeds came to light, then he was blackballed from higher levels of leadership.
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PatAnswer
When I first got in the ministry there were people in my twig that were advanced class grads. Sometimes they would go to "advanced clas grad weekends" or other meetings. They whet my appetite by telling me that what they were a part of was "closed corporation", they couldn't tell me about it at all. I couldn't wait to take the AC so that I too could go to these exclusive meetings where the topics were of such top level spiritual material.
Then I finally got to go. My class was a video of the AC '79 by VPW. Wow, I was finally there! The excitement of being there carried me for a few days. But towards the end of the first week I began to think there was something wrong with me. Everyone else seemed so excited and seemed like they were "getting it" and I wasn't.
One of the biggest disappointments was that after stories of God working so mightily and in spectacular ways in people of our day (black hearts, white hearts, who's going to win the next horse race, bumps on the back of someone's hand that would reveal how to minister healing) we would be told that God didn't work that way any more. Those were in the category of phenomena and we weren't supposed to look for anything like that. We weren't to ask for signs though it was clear that VPW and others did exactly that.
By the end of the class I felt like I had missed something. Surely I was asleep when the really cool stuff was taught. I had more questions than answers. I think I walked with less power after the AC then before.
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skyrider
After the advanced class.....I was puzzled by this as well.
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Twinky
I think that just about sums it up.
We got those "16 keys to walking in the spirit" and it all became paint-by-numbers, gotta do it this way, and rather than walking by the spirit, we ended up straight-jacketing the spirit.
Which puts the AC in direct contravention of what God says.
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johniam
I'll throw this in here...I believe in the concept of "walking with God". That's what the AC was supposed to help us do, but "walking with God" implies that God is in the equation. If the first thing that pops in your mind is 16 keys or endless one liners, then where's God?
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skyrider
Be careful, John.......you are starting to come over to the "dark side" with this line of questioning.
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excathedra
good point -- even more so when i went into way corps training....
when i was a "new" person (not PFAL grad), i was so excited and young, i think god was actually working in me with me whatev -- the only thing i was thinking about was helping people
it has happened to me also since leaving the way
i wish it would happen more, but i'm sad and bogged down with some personal horrible problems and maybe i'm not listening to god anymore -- i just need his help so desparately -- for someone in my own life -- that i can't seem to think about anything else
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johniam
Ex: You still do. It just feels different. I think about what Paul said...that single people care about the things of the Lord but married people care about the things of this world. I think that transfers to kids as well. You know God hasn't gone anywhere. I pray that whatever these problems are God will give you closure, healing, whatever you need.
Skyrider: Aw, c'mon. I don't think of any of you as evil. Overtaken in a fault? Conformed to this world? Maybe, but not evil, or dark.
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socks
I'll throw this in here...I believe in the concept of "walking with God". That's what the AC was supposed to help us do, but "walking with God" implies that God is in the equation. If the first thing that pops in your mind is 16 keys or endless one liners, then where's God?
The "first thing" in the head deal sure got out of hand.
Some of the stuff - the physical indicators - who knows. I know there's all manner of things possible and would vouch for the veracity of what I read in the Bible.
That God provides, I believe, now as then. That He will provide on demand and in a way I prescribe - no, don't believe that.
I personally learned through the A.C. that all of this kind of stuff - "revelation", whatever - happens very quickly, very fast and in relation to how I normally think and act, much faster. "Faster" is a word that doesn't exactly describe what I'm thinking but close - when it's occurring it's like how you might respond to a gust of wind that blows up and past you. That's not exactly what I mean either but when Jesus said something like that in John 3:8 I can see it in the same way in the broader context of life and what goes on.
Me, I'd never encourage another to not look to God, to pray, to expect God's guidance in their own affairs. Working that out in one's life is an individual effort. Any one who says they can predict it, demand it, produce it at will - nuts, IMO.
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waysider
Somethin' to ponder.
All that talk about how more S.I.T.= more revelation....hmmmm
Typical day at A.C......lots of S.I.T./not much revelation.
Leads me to believe we were taught something wrong about at least one of the two....Or even the whole concept.
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WordWolf
I'd also like to point out that the exemplar of "leading with the first thought" because
"the first thought is always from God" was lcm, and examples include
"God's Word is now over the world" and "All corps will now go full-time" and
others of his boondoggles.
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johniam
Didn't they tell us it's available to walk by the spirit 24/7? I don't need to walk by the spirit to get dressed, get in my car, drive it, do my work, etc. My whole day is consumed with things like that. SOME down time maybe, but when Jesus walked by the spirit he just spoke and did things that were right, sometimes on the fly. He told Peter flesh and blood did not reveal this to him.
Once I lived with a couple; my room was down stairs, theirs was upstairs. I had spent probably an hour in my room and I walked upstairs to the kitchen and the man came in and told me that I was walking with God by deciding to come upstairs. ????? He said he needed to talk to me right then. ???? Can't remember what he wanted to talk about.
quote:
I personally learned through the A.C. that all of this kind of stuff - "revelation", whatever - happens very quickly, very fast and in relation to how I normally think and act.
Glad you said that. This is weird. I lived with this believer in a 1 bedroom apt. It was Sunday afternoon. The roommate wasn't there. I sat down and started reading the funnies. At that time I did not normally read the funnies. Wasn't part of my habit patterns. Yet, I just found myself reading the funnies. One part of the STL Post-dispatch Sunday funnies was something called 'our own oddities'. People would send in stories or anecdotes and the paper staff would select a few of them and illustrate them with a brief cartoon. That day. one of the selections was a woman who found a contact lens which had been stuck in her eye for 4 years. I spent 1 hour reading the funnies and stopped.
Just then my roommate came back. Within 1 minute he said he couldn't find one of his contact lenses. I quickly told him with confidence that it was in his eye. He looked at me weird and checked it out. No luck. Fifteen minutes later he checked again. Bingo! I told him I believed God worked in me to read the funnies which led to the story about the lost contact lens and that was why I felt compelled to read the funnies when I normally wouldn't. He looked at me funny again. The next day he worked with our twig leader who lived with the area leader. I never heard about the contact lens again, but I suspect my roommate told the twig leader what happened and asked if this was possible. Next thing I knew I was going to be twig coordinator when the current one went in res.
Yet, to this day I don't feel comfortable saying I was definitely walking by the spirit. Oh, sure, you could make a case for it, but is that proof? Maybe, maybe not, but that was what I thought of when you said "in relation to how I normally think and act".
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socks
LCM's "first thought" reinvented VPW's point which allowed for "if" - there was no guarantee that the revelation would be there, occur, float by, whatever.
At the same time though VPW strongly implied that "all 9 all the time" was the order of the day. An individual should expect action. So where do you draw the line? I put it just right of center, more conservative and cautious.
Yeh, LCM was a first thoughter alright. It really was funny in an bad sort of way that LCM (and others) would so quickly take an idea and just amp it up and "establish" it even further, just pound it into the ground to a pulp. He had a really irksome way of making an idea into a bunch of jargonish gobbeledee gook and then act like
"well, that's it! it's just got to become a part of our logic, our thinking, our thought patterns so that it becomes a part of the fiber of our everyday walks with the Father so that we can then prevail above and beyond those things of which we've been taught and to the extent that we can, with believing action, move out, standing upon the promises that we've been given in this day and time and as we speak the greatness of the Word of God will come into fruition in that every day walk for the Father. "
And stuff.
1. It's an unseemly approach, I agree johniam - for want of a better word. Kind of buys into the same keg that's producing all of the last decade's "warrior" mentality amongst some Christians, the "I've got power and I'm not afraid to use it!" ex Way posturing, the x-treme for Jesus stuff. Trendy.
2. First thought is a bad way to phrase any of this - picture VPW in class snapping his fingers and saying "When you're really walking baby (snap snap) it's just right there, with real dynamic and an effervescence (snap snap), you're just walking, you just know that you know (snap snap)...that's it baby!" Sounded like Ginger Ale during a Castanet playoff.
3. "The walk" part of it all is pretty much the point and that idea relates well to what's in the Bible. Discussing those kinds of things - like a "16 keys" is fine IMO, reading records, hearing stor-eez, etc. It's not a big deal. Expecting that's what's going to happen all the time and the "walk" of power is some kind of 24 hour drill is nuts though, and produces the kinds of eccentricities and superstitions that we saw in the Way.
4. It served a lot of different interests to mysticize this stuff and give it a lot of Ooooh factor.
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