No Research Department at The Way International

[OldSkool]

Gradually, he helped me understand that the premises of fundamentalism, which Wierwille started from, were undermined by the very research Wierwille encouraged us to pursue. “Let’s face it, we can’t make literal facts out of metaphorical biblical language or perform linguistic gymnastics every time we don’t like a passage of scripture,” Joe pointed out. We could only surmise that Wierwille’s reasoning for having this department at all went something like this: he thought we’d be so loyal to him that we wouldn’t take issue with his work, only find ways to validate it. I began to understand that fundamentalism held the Way hostage in its research efforts. But expecting the Way to change was like expecting an oak tree to grow tulips – it’s impossible. Its nature can’t permit it.

From:

xAffinity for Windows

"Re-search" in today's way international is handled in large part by president's publications, where there was (dunno if still the case but as of 2008) a Research Department headed by one person who happened to be the only person in the department. This person was on the cabinet, a department coordinator of another large and busy department and had very limited hours for any actual research. Guess they didn't want the old boy having too much time to actually think about anything to do with research very long. Now, President's Pub's main job, sometimes in conjunction with Way Publications is to compare anything headed for media to "proven ministry research."

They are the rubber stamp arm of TWI. They compare everything with what's approved (mostly Wierwille's writings) and if they match, stamp em for approval by Rosalie. If not, work with author/presenter to have them remove contradictory content, receive revised content, and hopefully rubber stamp it for approval by Rosalie.

Present day way international's practices concerning research all makes sense to me now. We have done all the work so you don't have to. We don't want you to use the research principles we stole from Bullinger, especially on Wierwille's works. We already have. All you need to do is obey, keep reading until you are convinced of what we tell you. Oh, and we don't keep an actual "research department" with educated researchers anymore. Been there, done that, and it was all bad.

“Let’s face it, we can’t make literal facts out of metaphorical biblical language or perform linguistic gymnastics every time we don’t like a passage of scripture,” Joe pointed out. We could only surmise that Wierwille’s reasoning for having this department at all went something like this: he thought we’d be so loyal to him that we wouldn’t take issue with his work, only find ways to validate it.

This is exactly what happens now. Untold hours spent validating present publications with "proven ministry research." Rubber stamp after mind numbing rubber stamp.

We were expected to act like rubber stamps for his teachings.

This is RE-search in the way international. Wierwille is above question. His works, as sloppy and contradictory as the are, have been carefully edited - version after version - to sanitize them.

Countless volumes of ramblings in class series such as University of Life were pulled years ago, never to see the light of day. I guess Craig pulled them so he could be top dog and Rosalie limits access to them because, frankly, they are an embarrassment.

Thanks Charlene! You took a load off, and I am excited to read your full work upon completion.

Edited March 3, 2012 by OldSkool

[excathedra]

i liked joe and i like charlene :)

[waysider]

A research department at The Way....Isn't that a bit like having a test kitchen at the d-Con factory?

[OldSkool]

ROFL@ test kitchen in d-con factory!

I am drawn to this whole idea of biblical research and the way international. Once their research is exposed then the rest of what they have falls to pieces. It's taken me three full years to get my mind wrapped around their research being nothing more than a plagiarized fraud perpetrated by a sexually abusive, alcoholic, narcissist who called himself the MOGFODAT.

The biggest piece of wool pulled over my eyes by this group was they supposedly had "the truth" and NO ONE else did. I have heard so many people who were in the way international say "If only there was somewhere else to go, where they taught the truth." Some were no doubt insincere. Others, and the majority very much meant it.

Biblical research is their claim to fame but if those inside actually took the time to read the real inner workings of way international biblical research I doubt very many of them would remain.

Guess you can't blame TWI for telling devil spirit stories about all the fiery darts the adversary has out there on the internet. ROFL! I guess GSC is the adversaries fiery dart factory or something.

Really, they warned us adamantly about the internet and specifically not to read what was out there. If their biblical research was real and their character pure what would they possibly have to fear?

[Steve Lortz]

Their research is fake, and their character is polluted.

Love,

Steve

[Ham]

Besides that..

someone has infiltrated the essence of their natural bodily fluids..

[penworks]

If their biblical research was real and their character pure what would they possibly have to fear?

Glad the article is helpful.

I agree. The research couldnt' be "real" because it stated its hypothesis as if it were the result. i.e. Biblical inerrancy. That was never shown to be true in TWI nor is it shown anywhere else IMO. Inerrancy is not critical to appreciating the Bible.

VP's reseach efforts were a stab at being accepted in the scholarly world. Some on our team during the 1980s would attend the Society of Biblical Literature meetings and report on what TWI was doing, i.e. the Aramaic Concordance. VP wanted respect from scholars who attended it yet often denounced such scholars as "intellectual egotists" or unbelievers. Crazy. And he used W*alter C*mmins, a good hearted person taken in by VP, to do his bidding. Interesting that W*alter still promotes VP's stuff and follows his methodology...

Once the foundaton of TWI's research is understood, i.e. fundamentalism -- a plagiarized fundamentalism at that! -- TWI's value unravels for many of us. Also, when you give up believing VP's cult leader claim (the snow story)-- the whole thing unravles pretty fast, too.

Cheers!

Pen

[OldSkool]

Glad the article is helpful.

I agree. The research couldnt' be "real" because it stated its hypothesis as if it were the result. i.e. Biblical inerrancy. That was never shown to be true in TWI nor is it shown anywhere else IMO. Inerrancy is not critical to appreciating the Bible.

It goes further than that in present day TWI. The way international claims to not use deductive reasoning in their biblical research, defined by them as starting with a premise and seeking supporting evidence to substantiate the premise, but inductive reasoning where no premise exists until the research dictates one.

Guess they lied about that too.

Edited March 5, 2012 by OldSkool

[WordWolf]

(snip)

VP's reseach efforts were a stab at being accepted in the scholarly world. Some on our team during the 1980s would attend the Society of Biblical Literature meetings and report on what TWI was doing, i.e. the Aramaic Concordance. VP wanted respect from scholars who attended it yet often denounced such scholars as "intellectual egotists" or unbelievers. Crazy. And he used W*alter C*mmins, a good hearted person taken in by VP, to do his bidding. Interesting that W*alter still promotes VP's stuff and follows his methodology...

(snip)

In hindsight, it's easy to understand a lot more.

vpw was both LAZY and INSECURE.

He was LAZY and took all sorts of shortcuts.

He was INSECURE because his shortcuts were used in place of actually DOING THE WORK.

So, like any fraud, he knew he didn't have the foundation of substance the real deals have.

He couldn't HONESTLY earn accolades and validation without actually working.

Rather than work, he decided to fake it and try for FAKE accolades.

While attacking real scholars (those who exceeded his abilities because he was a FAKE scholar),

he ALSO wanted the respect of real scholars.

He had to attack them because they could expose him,

and he had to court them because he was INSECURE.

Sad how W@lter C knew (and knows) full well how vpw used other peoples' work- he'd SEEN the books

of others kept as a private stash- but still supports that system.

I guess for some the idea of making less money and having fewer accolades but doing it honestly

just doesn't appeal enough to stop defrauding people if they're willing to invite you to do it.

[OldSkool]

I guess for some the idea of making less money and having fewer accolades but doing it honestly

just doesn't appeal enough to stop defrauding people if they're willing to invite you to do it.

I'm not better or worse, but I am trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater and then make sure I go back with a towel to get up all the drops spilled from chucking the both of them!

It's mostly for conscience sake. I was way corps and seek to stand upright because I now know I perpetrated a system of lies and enslavement. Therefore I will work as hard as I can to sort this out and leave it in writing on a public forum as a warning to others.

[Twinky]

I don't know that the Research Department was ever anything but a sham. It sounded good, to say they had a research dept. As if they were some genuine organization. And the gullible (myself included) thought (at least at first) that real stuff was being discovered - put out, say, in the GMIR articles (they were always the most interesting part of the Way mag).

I waited for some sort of position statement on the Dead Sea Scrolls...what new light if any did they shed on what was already known? Alas, that might have taken some scholarship...

But VPW was dead and no-one else had the guts to lie quite like he did, or invent any explanation, or steal others' research.

... We're all still waiting for the position statement.

[waysider]

... We're all still waiting for the position statement.

When I was involved, The Dead Sea Scrolls were declared by the presiding leadership to be fraudulent and "spiritually counterfeit".

(Everything was "counterfeit" if it didn't originate at The Way.) <_<

edit: One of the identifying signs of a cult is that they claim to have proprietary knowledge.

Edited March 6, 2012 by waysider

[Twinky]

Don't think they were ever mentioned while I was there.

I did ask at twig before I got majorly involved, but can't remember the response - but it was clearly some sort of fudged answer.

[penworks]

I don't know that the Research Department was ever anything but a sham. It sounded good, to say they had a research dept. As if they were some genuine organization. And the gullible (myself included) thought (at least at first) that real stuff was being discovered - put out, say, in the GMIR articles (they were always the most interesting part of the Way mag).

I waited for some sort of position statement on the Dead Sea Scrolls...what new light if any did they shed on what was already known? Alas, that might have taken some scholarship...

But VPW was dead and no-one else had the guts to lie quite like he did, or invent any explanation, or steal others' research.

... We're all still waiting for the position statement.

Hi there.

Three things:

1) the Dead Sea scrolls contain portions of the Old Testament. None of those manuscripts were accessible to the public for years and years. It's possible some of them could impact current teachings in Jewish or Christian circles but while I was in TWI, B*rnita J*ss and I did talk about what their value might be. We didn't see them as "contaminated" etc. That sounds like something LCM would say. We saw them behind glass cases in the museum in Jerusalem on the Bible Lands Tour 1985.

2) Having been on the Research Team, I can vouch that it was a "sham," as you put it, not only because we had to "back up" VP doctrine but because of the limits that a fundamentalist approach to the Bible put on research done in TWI, in particlular, inerrancy. Inerrancy demanded the Bible "fit like a hand in a glove" without errors, etc.

For the record, I believe the Aramaic Concordance was the only true research resource we produced because it was simply that, a Concordance.

However, The Aramaic Interlinear (completed after the Concordance), which was a reference book, but got "contaminated" in my opinon by Wierwille's psuedo-theology because the person who finished that translation made certain changes that "lined up" with VP's interpretations.

Some of this I included in my Affinity story.

3) As for GMIR, a lot of nice information was offered in those articles but they all had to comply with the basic premise of inerrancy which skewed their findings. I knew some reserachers who would not submit articles to GMIR because of the heavy editing done by the in-house Team and Way Publications for the material to "comply" with existing teachings.

Cheers,

Pen

Edited March 7, 2012 by penworks

[Linda Z]

Penworks wrote:

3) As for GMIR, a lot of nice information was offered in those articles but they all had to comply with the basic premise of inerrancy which skewed their findings. I knew some reserachers who would not submit articles to GMIR because of the heavy editing done by the in-house Team and Way Publications for the material to "comply" with existing teachings.

Just to clarify this point...having worked in Way Publications, I can say we didn't change the intent of what was written; it was the job of the Research Dept. to make sure what was written lined up with "the Word" (in reality, with anything previously written by VPW). Our job in Way Pub was to correct grammar, syntax, punctuation, etc. Any questions about the actual content, or any editing that potentially could change the content, had to be answered/approved by the Research Dept.

In other words, Way Pub was responsible for style, but Research was responsible for substance.

[chockfull]

Penworks wrote:

Just to clarify this point...having worked in Way Publications, I can say we didn't change the intent of what was written; it was the job of the Research Dept. to make sure what was written lined up with "the Word" (in reality, with anything previously written by VPW). Our job in Way Pub was to correct grammar, syntax, punctuation, etc. Any questions about the actual content, or any editing that potentially could change the content, had to be answered/approved by the Research Dept.

In other words, Way Pub was responsible for style, but Research was responsible for substance.

I think that changed after LCM dismantled the Research Dept. Nowadays there are 7 or 8 reviewers and/or reviews for every Way Rag article all from Way Pub. Some of those are focused solely on "does it line up with proven/published ministry works"? Others of course are grammar/style reviews. If something is questionable it is flagged and the original author has to change it. There are other reviews of personal anecdotes and incidents that many times are flagged and required to be removed - the reason given is like "we want to make sure it translates to a world wide audience". In reality it is simply removing any personality.

[Naten00]

I am wondering about the new discovery that was found.... A FIRST CENTURY fragment of Mark with six other sources like sermons from Pauls letters and such... I wonder what they will do what that in their research? WIll they still hold that the gospels were written in Aramaic? What if....... the early second century sermons..... say something opposite to how they "accurately divide the word"....

In any case I can't wait for them to come out so I can make the determination myself.

Here is an interview with one the the scholars...

http://www.hughhewitt.com/transcripts.aspx?id=2ae35594-18e1-4776-bd4a-ca8f77c4deb6

Edited March 8, 2012 by Naten00

[What About It]

I wrote a Way Magazine article that keyed off one of VeePee's chapters in the blue book. It was all fine and dandy until I used a definition of a Greek word from Bullinger's lexicon instead of from VeePee's "proven ministry research." In truth, seeing Bullinger's definition really opened my eyes to the meaning behind this Greek word, which I had heard from only VP's slant for years. The end result: everything that I wrote based on Bullinger's definition was stripped or changed to agree with VP's and ONLY VP's definition of this word. Sad but true. And this was not in the 1970s or 1980s. It was in 2000+. So yes, in case you are wondering, VP seems to be alive and well. Or at least his minions are.

[Steve Lortz]

I am wondering about the new discovery that was found.... A FIRST CENTURY fragment of Mark with six other sources like sermons from Pauls letters and such... I wonder what they will do what that in their research? WIll they still hold that the gospels were written in Aramaic? What if....... the early second century sermons..... say something opposite to how they "accurately divide the word"....

In any case I can't wait for them to come out so I can make the determination myself.

Here is an interview with one the the scholars...

http://www.hughhewitt.com/transcripts.aspx?id=2ae35594-18e1-4776-bd4a-ca8f77c4deb6

OMG!?! :blink:

What'll we do if the Word, as written in the first century, doesn't line up with the Word, as it hasn't been known since the first century? :unsure:

Love,

Steve

[waysider]

OMG!?! :blink:

What'll we do if the Word, as written in the first century, doesn't line up with the Word, as it hasn't been known since the first century? :unsure:

Love,

Steve

Simple. We'll proclaim the newly found material to be counterfeit.

There, now wasn't that easy?

[OldSkool]

Simple. We'll proclaim the newly found material to be counterfeit.

There, now wasn't that easy?

You have my vote to the Board when a chair comes open...well...if there ever was a vote for something like that...

[Naten00]

Simple. We'll proclaim the newly found material to be counterfeit.

There, now wasn't that easy?

If only we had an......... Wait fooor it....... It's coming.... an easy button.

[JustThinking]

If only we had an......... Wait fooor it....... It's coming.... an easy button.

No, no, no, a million times NO!!!

It's a Sleazy Button! And the color is WAY green with gold inlay and wheat symbols, a Bible and VP's crest on top of everything. Don't you see? It's as simple as beep beep beep, boop boop boop! :) You just take anything decent and honest then hit the Sleazy Button and, presto, plain as the nose on your face! It's contaminated and rotten!

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