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Thomas Loy Bumgarner

Leah Remini/ Scientology and similarity to TWI

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Last night Tonto and I watched several episodes from the first season. I was so captivated by the stories that afterwards  i had to analyze why it held my interest the whole time.

 

We had both read several books on Scientology and so were familiar with their tenets, control tactics, and certain  followers’ personal stories of abuse and harassment...so much is so similar - just the abuse of power is termed differently - as it’s already been pointed out on Grease Spot ...for example to “declare” someone an enemy of the Church of Scientology is equivalent to TWI’s “mark and avoid”.

 

The appeal of this series is different for everyone...I imagine those who have never been deeply involved in an abusive and exploitative cult are just fascinated and maybe somewhat incredulous that anyone would fall for this stuff (oh the good old daze of the young and naive - :spy:)...for me, the series is like preaching to the choir (Sea Org = way corps) ; as each personal story unfolded and they talked about their recovery from a cult - there was something resonating within me...looking passed the doctrine and terminology - maybe it was an empathetic connection I guess - that I find healing, encouragement and strength from folks having a similar experience.

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On 2/9/2018 at 1:52 PM, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Actually, it will be in April

instead it will be August or September for season 3

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One of the most helpful things anyone can say that may nudge a cult follower to take their first steps toward freedom - is something Leah says at the beginning of each episode, and it’s put forth as a simple challenge...it’s almost like daring someone who is absolutely convinced their belief system is bulletproof, to pick up a loaded gun and prove it...Leah says something like - if your religion is so great and is doing all these wonderful things then it should be able to stand up to some questions.

And really what I think is most effective - is to get the cult follower to ask the questions themselves...they are used to outsiders challenging their beliefs - yes, usually (depending on their length and level of involvement) they have been indoctrinated so as to be thoroughly prepared for any confrontation to what they hold near and dear to their hearts.

 

Perhaps one of the things cults deem mission critical to control is the constant reinforcement of “defense mechanisms” planted in the mind through indoctrination - that is really one of the few means they have to make you think the tenets of your faith are bulletproof. I think it takes a very deliberate and brave act of the will to momentarily disarm even one of those internal defense mechanisms - to ignore what the cult says is forbidden to do or think - and fire away at a target.

 

I remember in PFAL the session about the fall of man:

what’s the first thing the serpent got Eve to do?

To question God’s Word...

that little baby is probably one of the main components of TWI’s indoctrination - it worked in my case for 12 years of my involvement ...think about it...

...I mean really think about that...go ahead - think !  :biglaugh:

 

If I questioned something in corps training or a teaching -     It’s almost like a little pop-up thought automatically starts playing in my head “uh oh, remember the road downhill - Eve questioned the word” or maybe an old friend says something derogative about TWI - “uh oh , the devil is working through that person to get me to doubt the word.”

 

The truth is - TWI is NOT so great and has zilch on the wonderful things scoreboard - so it is totally incapable of standing up to some questions!

 

Remember kids, guns don’t kill cults - but questioning minds do.

Edited by T-Bone
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1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

One of the most helpful things anyone can say that may nudge a cult follower to take their first steps toward freedom - is something Leah says at the beginning of each episode, and it’s put forth as a simple challenge...it’s almost like daring someone who is absolutely convinced their belief system is bulletproof, to pick up a loaded gun and prove it...Leah says something like - if your religion is so great and is doing all these wonderful things then it should be able to stand up to some questions.

And really what I think is most effective - is to get the cult follower to ask the questions themselves...they are used to outsiders challenging their beliefs - yes, usually (depending on their length and level of involvement) they have been indoctrinated so as to be thoroughly prepared for any confrontation to what they hold near and dear to their hearts.

 

Perhaps one of the things cults deem mission critical to control is the constant reinforcement of “defense mechanisms” planted in the mind through indoctrination - that is really one of the few means they have to make you think the tenets of your faith are bulletproof. I think it takes a very deliberate and brave act of the will to momentarily disarm even one of those internal defense mechanisms - to ignore what the cult says is forbidden to do or think - and fire away at a target.

 

I remember in PFAL the session about the fall of man:

what’s the first thing the serpent got Eve to do?

To question God’s Word...

that little baby is probably one of the main components of TWI’s indoctrination - it worked in my case for 12 years of my involvement ...think about it...

...I mean really think about that...go ahead - think !  :biglaugh:

 

If I questioned something in corps training or a teaching -     It’s almost like a little pop-up thought automatically starts playing in my head “uh oh, remember the road downhill - Eve questioned the word” or maybe an old friend says something derogative about TWI - “uh oh , the devil is working through that person to get me to doubt the word.”

 

The truth is - TWI is NOT so great and has zilch on the wonderful things scoreboard - so it is totally incapable of standing up to some questions!

 

Remember kids, guns don’t kill cults - but questioning minds do.

I wanted to pull some important  points out of this to highlight but it's so packed with good advise, I found that to be an impossible task.:eusa_clap:

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btw, today's lectionary was Genesis chapter 3. My pastor gave an entirely different approach to the scripture than VPW or LCM

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9 minutes ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

btw, today's lectionary was Genesis chapter 3. My pastor gave an entirely different approach to the scripture than VPW or LCM

Imagine that! :dance:

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16 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

LOL Thomas! Surprise, surprise, surprise!

Thanks Gomer, eh I mean DWBH:biglaugh:

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A and E is re-running Season 2 tonight and at 10pm. Leah interviews former members of Jehovah's Witness and their similarities to Scientology. I wish she and Mike had instead interviewed, Karl, Kristin, and Charlene.

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New season begins November 27

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51 minutes ago, outandabout said:

"The difference between a church and a cult is what they do when you try to leave" - Mike Rinder

Mike, could you be more specific?  No one did anything to me when I left TWI; I left very quietly, and no one said Jack to me.

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6 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Mike, could you be more specific?  No one did anything to me when I left TWI; I left very quietly, and no one said Jack to me.

I left during the big exodus of 1989/1990.  The Branch pretty much all left together.  (Much of the Territory and Limb, also, for that matter.)  I continued to get mail from twi for a few years, then they stopped.   Other than that, hq never tried to contact me or my family.

 

For many people, the story was very different. When they wanted to leave, they were harangued.  Some people were told their children would die if they left.  When T0m M1tche11 wanted to take his wife R@m0n@ and leave (he didn't like lcm boinking his wife), lcm sent one of his stooges to stop the wife and talk her into staying.  He succeeded. Shortly thereafter, T0m blew his own brains out.    There's lots of people who got different types of pressure put on them when they tried to leave- and there's probably a few who are still in as a result.

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39 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

I left during the big exodus of 1989/1990.  The Branch pretty much all left together.  (Much of the Territory and Limb, also, for that matter.)  I continued to get mail from twi for a few years, then they stopped.   Other than that, hq never tried to contact me or my family.

 

For many people, the story was very different. When they wanted to leave, they were harangued.  Some people were told their children would die if they left.  When T0m M1tche11 wanted to take his wife R@m0n@ and leave (he didn't like lcm boinking his wife), lcm sent one of his stooges to stop the wife and talk her into staying.  He succeeded. Shortly thereafter, T0m blew his own brains out.    There's lots of people who got different types of pressure put on them when they tried to leave- and there's probably a few who are still in as a result.

WW, unbelievable!!  I perhaps was more forunate than others; no one tried to prevent me from leaving.  But, at the time I left in May of 1988, I was stationed in Italy; perhaps TWI had forgotten about me. I left very quitely, and never ever regreted it. 

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It was harder to leave if you were Corps.  We had a "lifetime commitment."  It might have not been any kind of physical restraint but it was psychological.  I was subjected to an hour long yelling and blaming fest by the branch leader because I had mentioned to another person that sometimes I felt like leaving, who then ratted on me.

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39 minutes ago, outandabout said:

It was harder to leave if you were Corps.  We had a "lifetime commitment."  It might have not been any kind of physical restraint but it was psychological.  I was subjected to an hour long yelling and blaming fest by the branch leader because I had mentioned to another person that sometimes I felt like leaving, who then ratted on me.

Outie, another reason why I am glad I never joined The Way Corps.

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3 hours ago, outandabout said:

It was harder to leave if you were Corps.  We had a "lifetime commitment."  It might have not been any kind of physical restraint but it was psychological.  I was subjected to an hour long yelling and blaming fest by the branch leader because I had mentioned to another person that sometimes I felt like leaving, who then ratted on me.

Yep. Not to mention as corps our lives were so intertwined with our assignments. Financially, socially, family, et al. When me n my ex left, I had us the hell away from all things twi by insisting that we relocate to a city near hq where my child's healthcare was being handled at the time. The day I emailed john rupps sorry behind our resignation letter we had literally spent months extricating ourselves from twi tentacles. It took several years after leaving to come to grips with reality...the reality that i volunteered myself in the prime of my life and spent many years advancing an abusive cult that works on a pyramid scheme. I knew of the abuses but thought it would never come my way....wrong.....wrong.

Anywho, Happy Thanksgiving all!

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happy New Year. Last night's episode was about Shelly Misagavege and her disappearance.Some say her husband David has her imprisoned, others claim he killed her for disobedience. She hasn't been seen since November 12, 2012. Would Wierwille, Martindale, or Geer done similar things? One wonders about these things

Edited by Thomas Loy Bumgarner

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On 11/19/2018 at 6:21 PM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Mike, could you be more specific?  No one did anything to me when I left TWI; I left very quietly, and no one said Jack to me.

Mike Rinder is from Scientology, not TWI. I don't know if he and Leah know of this website

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Last night was about Scientology trying to access all of Clearwater Florida to own. Wonder if Wierwille wanted to annex all of New Knoxville to TWI?

 

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1 hour ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Last night was about Scientology trying to access all of Clearwater Florida to own. Wonder if Wierwille wanted to annex all of New Knoxville to TWI?

 

We know he was interested in buying up all the adjoining farms.  If he'd focused more twi-specific activities around NK, it would probably be de facto twi territory if not de jure. (Not legally theirs, but theirs in practice.)  I think he had his sights set on bigger areas, mostly due to growth that H33fn3r and D00p had started- especially since he didn't have to lift a finger and was not expected to.  He effectively claimed all those people on both coasts without any personal effort- which is what he wanted all along.

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Well Sydney and Minister were Way Properties near New Knoxville

Edited by Thomas Loy Bumgarner

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1 hour ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Well Sydney and Minister were Way Properties near New Knoxville

Was the Sydney one the "Fine Arts and Historical Center"?

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8 hours ago, WordWolf said:

Was the Sydney one the "Fine Arts and Historical Center"?

Yes, it was immaculate inside. Had a huge staircase which was really beautiful. I remember spending the night in it once for a "teen advance". We actually had a great time during that particular event. I think Mark Carli was our counselor. Vaguely remember some tunnel in the basement.

Edited by Infoabsorption

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On 11/13/2018 at 6:49 PM, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

A and E is re-running Season 2 tonight and at 10pm. Leah interviews former members of Jehovah's Witness and their similarities to Scientology. I wish she and Mike had instead interviewed, Karl, Kristin, and Charlene.

Still hope they will do that in the near future

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