Well, the crap doesn't REALLY runneth through the goose. Crap can't do that.
slowly...richly....grads....
Technically the velocity of the children runneth in a circle is 0. Since they return to the origin.
Much the same as the crap returneth to the grass, which it fertilizeth, and the grass groweth to feedeth the deer. Which the lion eateth, and returneth to earth as crap. All is a cycle.
Like OldSkool said in the starter post, the current TWI is trying to coverup fallacies. The persistent problem as I see it, is that there are MULTIPLE issues in ‘the great principle’ (as it is in most of wierwille’s befuddling ‘theories’). wierwille’sinterpolations* (see footnotes) of John 16 had taken unjustified liberties – inserting foreign ideas and speculating on stuff of which he didn’t have a clue.
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
Not that this would be biblically accurate but if I had to give a linear representation of a John 16 “flowchart” it would be:
The Father - -> The Son — > The Holy Spirit — > you
trying to think of something catchy like ‘the great principle’ for this foursome maybe
RSVP Trinity Plus One
Or picking up on the flowchart concept – a river flowing – like the Guadalupe Riverbut it would be Quadalupe River
A flowchart is a modern construct…and I think if Jesus was indicating some type of movement – maybe it’s just that it all proceeds from The Father.…we’re talking about a mission - an important assignment carried out for a special purpose and it usually involves travel...ta-ta see ya around ...
...But anyway…that’s the bigger picture…the mission…we’ve been recruited for the mission…while on earth Jesus Christ carried out the mission…now the Holy Spirit is carrying out the mission through us. With the help of the Holy Spirit we bring people to Christ and Christ reconciles them back to the Father...On another thread I got into this a little bit - reflecting on my 12 years of involvement with TWI and how wierwille subverted the role of the Holy Spirit...instead of carrying out the mission that came from the Father to the Son to the Holy Spirit - I served a self-centered cult-leader and his agenda...I got off mission. damn that sucked
We are finite beings stuck in a specific spacetime continuum. But not so with The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.
How does anything work in the spiritual realm? I don't know!
And what is the spiritual realm? I don't know!
Imagine if you were a 2-dimensional sentient being – like a stick figure that the Divine Artist doodled on paper...what does divine mean anyway? I don't know - maybe the one who created you is otherworldly.
Now imagine if you got in a conversation with the Divine Artist. Do you think you could wrap your mind around the world of the Divine Artist when more than 2 dimensions are involved? "What do you mean there's stuff in front of and behind this piece of paper I'm on? What does that mean? I don't see anything! Is there more to life than this piece of paper?"
~ ~ ~ ~
In my opinion, the biggest problems are probably wierwille’s misconceptions as well as his anti-Trinitarian bias - instead of acknowledging the Spirit of truth (the Holy Spirit) as part of the Godhead – wierwille mixes up the Spirit of truth with the Father. wierwille probably ‘borrowed’ from Bullinger’s The Giver and His Gifts; Or, The Holy Spirit and His Work: Bullinger, E. W.: 9781614276739: Amazon.com: Booksanyway – Bullinger / wierwille differentiated God the Father as Holy Spiritand God’s gift – or ‘creation’ in you as holy spirit.
Fundamentalism tends to take everything so literally. I can see why – when you have such a wooden interpretation. Note the prayer of the psalmist:
Amplified Bible Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a right and steadfast spirit within me.
Psalm 51:10
Was the psalmist asking for God to literally create a new heart? Or could it have been like going to the Divine Designer and asking Him to take this old, dirty, and disorganized ‘interior’ and give it a fresh and neat new look?
I’ve shared on other threads > heresoul & spirit synonymous in Scriptureand > here incorruptible seed refers to the Word of Godwhich highlight the figurative…poetic…and non-technical narratives of the Bible…Bullinger and wierwille both had a tendency to squeeze the Bible so hard trying to make it fit into a preconceived mold of mathematical exactness and scientific precision...yeah mathematical exactness = 4 crucified
~ ~ ~ ~
Reflecting on my former TWI-mindset, a lot of my concepts I adopted from wierwille’s idiosyncratic and self-centered perspective. I’ve got my own holy spirit – woo-hoo I’m a big deal !Oh, the thrill of ownership!!!!
Try this – read the following and see if you can recall TWI’s slant on it:
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
I remember wierwille teaching that ourholy spirit is the down payment of our inheritance…
but another way to look at it is that the HolySpirit comes to indwell the believer – to secure…preserve our salvation. The “seal” refers to an official mark on a document or contract – and thus under the authority of the person whose stamp was on the seal. The Holy Spirit gives us permission to participate in the fullness of God’s love, mercy, and work here on earth until we reach our future inheritance in heaven.
Just wondering why you said the "flowchart" below would not be biblically accurate?
The Father - -> The Son — > The Holy Spirit — > you
Hi Charity,
I say stuff like that to alert readers I’m just thinking out loud – speculating – so take it with a grain of salt – I have no Scripture to back it up. There is no linear representation like the one I wrote - in the Bible. . A flowchart is a modern construct – but that’s how I understand what Jesus meant – the flowchart shows direction of movement – that it all proceeds fromThe Father.
For this post I was thinking along the lines of that thread you started, How does God work in us ...I like the mind-expanding quality of that thread – my takeaway from everyone’s input is that we humans are unique – so there will be some overlap but also distinctive differences – it's all soooooo fascinating - we recount how an indescribable divine being communicates with each one of us:
New Living Translation The high and lofty one who lives in eternity, the Holy One, says this: “I live in the high and holy place with those whose spirits are contrite and humble. I restore the crushed spirit of the humble and revive the courage of those with repentant hearts…Isaiah 57:15
wierwille’s ‘great principle’puts God in a box - and even conceptually it is speculative and contradictory – if spirit is spirit and matter is matter and never the twain shall meet – then wierwille’s ‘great principle’ has conflicting theories!
EXACTLY HOW God works in each one of us is a mystery to me…Best I know is just to say it all proceeds from the FatherThe Father - -> The Son — > The Holy Spirit — > you . Circling back to speaking in tongues – I’m of the opinion if you got it use it to serve others – whatever gifts you have use them to serve others:
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
There is one single key idea that should have run through all of those sessions. Does anyone remember what that was?
Who cares? Mike's playing games again.
Mike, don't you get it? Most of us here have moved on - moved way on - in our thinking from the little box in which VPW wanted to imprison us.
Do YOU remember what the one single key idea that should have run through all the Way ministry's teachings ought to have been?
Unlike you - I will give you a clue. It is to do with the fact that GOD LOVES US unconditionally and would really like it if we would love HIM back. Love him. And not some man, or some idol, or some book or some thing.
It is to do with the fact that GOD LOVES US unconditionally
Though I accept this fact as true, my FC reproved and corrected me on it. He tried to "teach" me that God's love is conditional. I can't remember what the alleged conditions are, but I suspect they have something to do with beleeeving the bullshonta of a charlatan.
Though I accept this fact as true, my FC reproved and corrected me on it. He tried to "teach" me that God's love is conditional. I can't remember what the alleged conditions are, but I suspect they have something to do with beleeeving the bullshonta of a charlatan.
Typical FC bullshonta. Guess dude never read Romans 8.
Technically the velocity of the children runneth in a circle is 0. Since they return to the origin.
Much the same as the crap returneth to the grass, which it fertilizeth, and the grass groweth to feedeth the deer. Which the lion eateth, and returneth to earth as crap. All is a cycle.
Ahhh but if a man speaks and there is no woman nearby to hear is the man still wrong?
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Charity
Reading twi's article both was emotionally and physically sickening. It so reinforced the doctrinal and practical errors that robbed believers of having a personal relationship with God and Jesus Chr
Bolshevik
Rocky
Who among you (or us) might be strategic thinkers? Was Victor Wierwille a strategic thinker? (not necessarily a rhetorical question) Is Mike a strategic thinker? (rhetorical questi
Bolshevik
Well, that excellorated quickly.
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waysider
Fun Fact: A session participant who has the ability to spark interest with fiery enthusiasm is known as an "excellorant".
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T-Bone
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1011 Corrections:Particle
ExcelloratorPossibly ExcelleraterPast Participle ExcellermundoParcheesi ExcelleramaParticle Accelerator
Dancing With the Stars ExcellorantExceller: The Basement Removal CompanyFresca Ex-Seltzer the non-carbonated alternativeUSS Starship Excelsior
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Bolshevik
According to VPW in PFAL, ducks just sit there.
In this thread DuckDuckGo was mentioned. This is an apparent contradiction.
DuckDuckGo is derived from duck duck goose, the children's game.
You see, the crap runneth through the goose as the goose goeth. Not the duck. It just sits there.
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Nathan_Jr
Well, the crap doesn't REALLY runneth through the goose. Crap can't do that.
slowly...richly....grads....
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Bolshevik
Technically the velocity of the children runneth in a circle is 0. Since they return to the origin.
Much the same as the crap returneth to the grass, which it fertilizeth, and the grass groweth to feedeth the deer. Which the lion eateth, and returneth to earth as crap. All is a cycle.
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Bolshevik
Ah so by getting back to God's original intent, the point of origin; our velocity is zero, meaning we're getting nowhere.
The GP requires one to give, to give a crap, and VPW can only give that which he is. And giving equal receiving.
Thus by not giving a crap, one has attained enlightenment.
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Charity
Hi T-Bone
Just wondering why you said the "flowchart" below would not be biblically accurate?
The Father - -> The Son — > The Holy Spirit — > you
Edited by CharityLink to comment
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Rocky
Who among you (or us) might be strategic thinkers?
Was Victor Wierwille a strategic thinker? (not necessarily a rhetorical question)
Is Mike a strategic thinker? (rhetorical question)
I mean what really is a great principle? How does it apply to GSC?
Edited by RockyAre YOU a strategic thinker? (rhetorical question)
[stream of consciousness]
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Mike
The strategy behind Excellors' Sessions probably eludes everyone here.
I have posted what that strategy was, but it was probably not absorbed.
There is one single key idea that should have run through all of those sessions. Does anyone remember what that was?
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Nathan_Jr
Excellent video, Rocky!
I wish I could upvote it 7 x 70 or 427 or 5 times! Damn. Mmmmph.
HOWEVER, this is kryptonite for cult leaders like victor Paul wierwille and cult sycophants like Mike.
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T-Bone
Hi Charity,
I say stuff like that to alert readers I’m just thinking out loud – speculating – so take it with a grain of salt – I have no Scripture to back it up. There is no linear representation like the one I wrote - in the Bible. . A flowchart is a modern construct – but that’s how I understand what Jesus meant – the flowchart shows direction of movement – that it all proceeds from The Father.
For this post I was thinking along the lines of that thread you started, How does God work in us ...I like the mind-expanding quality of that thread – my takeaway from everyone’s input is that we humans are unique – so there will be some overlap but also distinctive differences – it's all soooooo fascinating - we recount how an indescribable divine being communicates with each one of us:
New Living Translation
The high and lofty one who lives in eternity, the Holy One, says this: “I live in the high and holy place with those whose spirits are contrite and humble. I restore the crushed spirit of the humble and revive the courage of those with repentant hearts…Isaiah 57:15
wierwille’s ‘great principle’ puts God in a box - and even conceptually it is speculative and contradictory – if spirit is spirit and matter is matter and never the twain shall meet – then wierwille’s ‘great principle’ has conflicting theories!
EXACTLY HOW God works in each one of us is a mystery to me…Best I know is just to say it all proceeds from the Father The Father - -> The Son — > The Holy Spirit — > you . Circling back to speaking in tongues – I’m of the opinion if you got it use it to serve others – whatever gifts you have use them to serve others:
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
I Corinthians 12
Edited by T-BoneT-Bone --> Grease Spot Cafe - - > typos - - > editor - - > Grease Spot Cafe
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Nathan_Jr
Slowly…rich emails…really…not really… grads…absorb…
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waysider
I must have dozed off. Can you briefly repeat it?
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OldSkool
Yeah..when we call bullshonta on various and sundry ludicrous practices initiated by wierwille it's because the bs has eluded us...
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chockfull
Yes. The strategy is the more you have people take action themselves in a class, the more money they are more likely to give you in the long run.
That is the single key idea in play here.
The rest of it is bullshonta on command. In order like the Way tree structure.
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Nathan_Jr
He can't. He doesn't have time to briefly repeat anything. Not REALLY. He's so busy. Too busy.
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chockfull
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Twinky
Who cares? Mike's playing games again.
Mike, don't you get it? Most of us here have moved on - moved way on - in our thinking from the little box in which VPW wanted to imprison us.
Do YOU remember what the one single key idea that should have run through all the Way ministry's teachings ought to have been?
Unlike you - I will give you a clue. It is to do with the fact that GOD LOVES US unconditionally and would really like it if we would love HIM back. Love him. And not some man, or some idol, or some book or some thing.
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Nathan_Jr
Though I accept this fact as true, my FC reproved and corrected me on it. He tried to "teach" me that God's love is conditional. I can't remember what the alleged conditions are, but I suspect they have something to do with beleeeving the bullshonta of a charlatan.
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OldSkool
Typical FC bullshonta. Guess dude never read Romans 8.
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OldSkool
Dude...that's an actual pic of the atom smasher Mike used to run.
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OldSkool
Dude...that's EXCELLORENT!!
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OldSkool
Ahhh but if a man speaks and there is no woman nearby to hear is the man still wrong?
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