In VPW's last, last teaching he tells us (twice) to master the foundational and the intermediate classes, and the written materials that come with them.
That is one clue to the PFAL canon. I take it to include Way Mag articles because a subscription came with the class.
I took it as very significant that this most important teaching completely fell thru the cracks. I was 15 years late in seeing it. I did an informal poll that told me 99% of all non-Corps grads had no idea it existed. I regard the extremely poor handling of this teaching to be a colossal top leadership failure, and I see it as the most clear example of a total failure by the top leadership. I regard this teaching as THE smoking gun to tell us what went wrong.
So the rough handling of this teaching is a good indication to me that it's contents are very significant. This looks like it might be another variation on this thread's theme.
*/*/*/*
The PFAL canon has other anomalies, but I have not had time to work on them much. It is an open subject for me. I have recently mentioned this here before.
I like them and listen to them, but they were not put into that final written form the others have, which involved other people with holy spirit (even prior to VPW's working), and lots of editing time, and lots of prayer. I see VPW as just one player in the collaterals, while in LV and UoL he is central.
I feel that in all the classes there was that open possibility for passages being "almost straight prophesy" or "God-breathed" or "special." I first started thinking in the early 1970s of the film class in that way.
HOWEVER, it is hard to say where each such passage begins and ends.
*/*/*/*/*/*
I rarely got this far with detail on this 20 years ago. Too much fur was flying.
Another thing to note, 20 years ago I said there was no way I could logically prove that the collaterals being God-breathed.
This was heard by very few. Eventually I would dodge challenges to prove this, because it was impossible.Many thought I was constantly engaged in it, but that was not the case.
What I, however, WAS constantly engaged in was posting that VPW often claimed to be a spokesman for God, and in many different ways.People would post that VPW was rolling in his grave when I posted that way about him, because he taught just the opposite. People said that VPW could NEVER have said that.
So the big debate, as far as I was concerned, was that everyone who was criticizing what we were taught, did not understand what they criticizing.I claimed that VPW claimed it. I did not claim I could prove it true; I just simply believed what he claimed.
MANY said I was in error and I didn’t know what I was defending.So I slowly posted about 20 places where VPW claimed SOMETHING special about the collaterals, and prominently one such place was PFAL page 83.
Of all the “thus saith the lord” claims of VPW’s, page 83 is the corker. I first saw it in the late 1970s, and a few hard core friends of mine saw it too in the film class, where it is nearly identical.
So the big debate morphed again, from the 20 places where VPW claimed against all others, to just page 83.
“Mike, your grammar is crazy on page 83”was what 49 out of 50 people would tell me here, and in splinter groups. But a few grammar experts would agree with me over the years on this page 83 debate, so I pressed on with it, even though no one believed me here…. until Nathan_Jr showed up late one night and reluctantly agreed with me, last September.
So I never debated that the collaterals were “God-breathed.” just that VPW claimed it.
“No he didn’t”was thrown at me, and my comeback was “He did it 20 times” with one big enchilada in the film class and page 83 right under everyone’s noses.
I argued that all those claims of “thus saith the lord” by VPW eluded us for decades (me too except for page 83) and that we are not in a good position to criticize them because we ALL (1) forgot much of the material and (2) were not able to absorb it all.
My solution to this for me, when I saw it, was to follow VPW’s final instructions and come back to PFAL to master the class and master the collaterals the best I could.It was a good review I had for a good 20 years. I’m still learning from them. I am thankful to God for what He did for me, and I look forward to someday thanking Brother Jesus PERSONALLY for all he did to reconcile me to the Father.
So I never debated that the collaterals were “God-breathed.” just that VPW claimed it.
“No he didn’t”was thrown at me, and my comeback was “He did it 20 times” with one big enchilada in the film class and page 83 right under everyone’s noses.
I argued that all those claims of “thus saith the lord” by VPW eluded us for decades (me too except for page 83) and that we are not in a good position to criticize them because we ALL (1) forgot much of the material and (2) were not able to absorb it all.
My solution to this for me, when I saw it, was to follow VPW’s final instructions and come back to PFAL to master the class and master the collaterals the best I could.It was a good review I had for a good 20 years. I’m still learning from them. I am thankful to God for what He did for me, and I look forward to someday thanking Brother Jesus PERSONALLY for all he did to reconcile me to the Father.
What a cheap shot – you throw wierwille under the bus – that’s pretty low since you have been the one claiming PFAL was God-breathed.
So, your solution was to disengage your cognitive skills.
So I slowly posted about 20 places where VPWclaimed SOMETHING special about the collaterals, and prominently one such place was PFAL page 83.
31 minutes ago, Mike said:
So I never debated that the collaterals were “God-breathed.” just that VPWclaimed it.
31 minutes ago, Mike said:
“No he didn’t”was thrown at me, and my comeback was “He did it 20 times” with one big enchilada in the film class and page 83 right under everyone’s noses.
So what. Victor asserted a claim. So what? He asserted oodles of claims that have been throughly refuted as lies, falsehoods and errors.
He claimed he invented the hook shot!!
Victor Barnard claimed... Jim Jones claimed... L. Ron Hubbard claimed...
Beware the self proclaimed. The one who asserts the claim that he speaks for God is surely the one who does not.
Self proclamations are the confessions of hucksters and liars.
So what. Victor asserted a claim. So what? He asserted oodles of claims that have been throughly refuted as lies, falsehoods and errors.
He claimed he invented the hook shot!!
Victor Barnard claimed... Jim Jones claimed... L. Ron Hubbard claimed...
Beware the self proclaimed. The one who asserts the claim that he speaks for God is surely the one who does not.
Self proclamations are the confessions of hucksters and liars.
Here is the logic:
I post that VPW claimed PFAL God-breathed.
Others post that he did not claim that.
I post 20 such claims.
Then I post that the others' knowledge of PFAL is insufficient to criticize PFAL because they all missed the 20 claims due to (1) forgetting (2) not absorbing all of it when they heard it.
Meanwhile everyone thinks I am trying to prove that PFAL is God-breathed, when I feel it can only be proved to be true by living it.
There are some subtle things here.
I'll keep trying to clearly describe them.
I post that VPW claimed PFAL God-breathed.
Others post that he did not claim that.
I post 20 such claims.
Then I post that the others' knowledge of PFAL is insufficient to criticize PFAL because they all missed the 20 claims due to (1) forgetting (2) not absorbing all of it when they heard it.
Meanwhile everyone thinks I am trying to prove that PFAL is God-breathed, when I feel it can only be proved to be true by living it.
There are some subtle things here.
I'll keep trying to clearly describe them.
Victor claiming that PFAL is God-breathed should be evidence enough that PFAL is NOT God breathed.
HOWEVER, just in case one misses victor's self-indicting claim, there are oodles and oodles of errors that can prove PFAL is not God-breathed. There are so many errors, who could keep track of them all - the ocean of error is vast, many are easily missed.... the first time.
[Well, we all know THIS isn't going to be sound, but let's see what it is.]
"I post that VPW claimed PFAL God-breathed.
Others post that he did not claim that."
[Yes, that's correct.]
"I post 20 such claims."
vpw, following the pattern of other speakers because he lacked the originality to make up a completely new style himself, used the best phrases and expressions he could find, and pretended he either made them up, or used known ones for some humorous purpose, or so on.
In an attempt to halt disagreement with him, a speaker who was teaching the Bible sometimes would claim "Don't blame me- I didn't write The Book." The meaning is clear- they are claiming to be teaching what THE BIBLE says, and by disagreeing with them, someone is disagreeing with what THE BIBLE says, and not their own opinion. There are other expressions where one claims separation from something to avoid people coming after them, but this one was common enough among Bible teachers, sermonists, homiletists, and so on.
So, here comes vpw. He makes some claim, possibly a controversial claim, that he claims is in THE BIBLE. He forestalls a debate on the subject by claiming it's God's Idea, not his. "Don't blame me- I didn't write the book." Now, remembering that people who came later cleaned up vpw's tortured grammar, added punctuation, and added capitalization where they thought it belonged (vpw was too lazy to do it himself or even proofread the results), we know the expression was the same one, and a lack of capitalization wasn't in what he said because capitalization isn't spoken out loud. His transcribers added-or failed to add- them. So, vpw claims he didn't write THE BIBLE. What other book would he possibly have been referring to at the time? Time, Life, Look, Saturday Evening Post? Supposedly, vpw was entirely about THE BIBLE. When he spoke out loud, he was speaking of THE BIBLE.
Could he have meant the Orange Book, the White Book, the Blue Book? That would have been a heck of a trick- they weren't done when he was first saying all that! There WERE no such books as he got into the habit of saying that. Only years later did they actually get printed- and his meanings didn't suddenly shift to them. When vpw tried to claim he spoke what THE BIBLE said, he claimed to disagree with him was to disagree with THE BIBLE, and thus to disagree with GOD ALMIGHTY.
So, when vpw said "Don't blame me- I didn't write The Book!", its meaning was plain to everyone who took the classes for decades..... until Mike came along and, all by himself, began insisting that it never actually MEANT "THE BIBLE" when vpw said "THE BOOK" there. Even people who've never heard of twi, of vpw, all know The Book is "The Bible." (Back in college, I was waiting for something to start. Other early arrivals were also getting fidgety. I began reading. One of them asked me, "What book are you reading?" I showed them the leather cover. "Oh- THE Book." I went back to reading.)
So, vpw uses that same catchphrase some 20 times, all to prevent people from arguing with him because he supposedly was just reporting the contents of THE BIBLE and he didn't write THE BIBLE. That's not hard to understand.
To hear Mike say it, vpw was disavowing the writing of one pfal book or another. This would be coming from a man who slapped his name on the work of EVERYBODY whenever he got a chance- JCOPS, JCOP, books he barely prefaced, all with "BY VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE" proudly displayed on the cover. Not "EDITED BY" or anything else. But somehow, he decided to keep his name on the cover of certain other books, that say "BY VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE" on the cover, but he made some offhand comments that he didn't actually write them- despite their covers saying that for multiple printings long after he said that.
It's easy to understand for everyone EXCEPT MIKE, who has proudly made up his mind.]
"Then I post that the others' knowledge of PFAL is insufficient to criticize PFAL because they all missed the 20 claims due to (1) forgetting (2) not absorbing all of it when they heard it."
[So, Mike invents a fake standard, where people who failed to MISread or failed to MISunderstand are somehow less astute because they understood EXACTLY what was being said. Mike, however, has the HIDDEN, OCCULTED meanings of the contents. This makes Mike special.]
"Meanwhile everyone thinks I am trying to prove that PFAL is God-breathed, when I feel it can only be proved to be true by living it."
[Meanwhile, pfal specified what it meant for something to be God-breathed, and this is testable for anything written, including pfal. When someone actually tries pfal's standard for "God-breathed" on pfal itself, it fails to hold up, falling FAR short of meeting that standard. Since pfal never claims pfal actually IS "God-breathed", this isn't a problem for anyone else BUT MIKE, the one person who insists that pfal was "God-Breathed." So, it can be proven FALSE easily enough- and was done so about TWENTY FREAKING YEARS AGO, when this was first brought up. Mike keeps skipping over that, of course.
But Mike's said before, that the only way to prove him right or wrong is to ASSUME Mike is right, then spend several months living as if Mike is right, THEN seeing what one thinks. Well, DUH! if one spends several months BRAINWASHING themselves, at the end, they're going to be BRAINWASHED! Mike's offer generally doesn't get a lot of takers.]
"I feel that in all the classes there was that open possibility for passages being "almost straight prophesy" or "God-breathed" or "special." I first started thinking in the early 1970s of the film class in that way. "
[Yet, one of his claims was that this was something Mike came to in later years. So, he BEGAN his experiences with the film class with this idea EARLY ON.]
"Another thing to note, 20 years ago I said there was no way I could logically prove that the collaterals being God-breathed. "
[Actually, it was logically proven that the collaterals were NOT God-breathed."]
"Mike, your grammar is crazy on page 83”was what 49 out of 50 people would tell me here, and in splinter groups. But a few grammar experts would agree with me over the years on this page 83 debate, so I pressed on with it, even though no one believed me here…. until Nathan_Jr showed up late one night and reluctantly agreed with me, last September."
[So, that's a standard few of us would emulate. 98% of the public disagreeing with you, and ONE PERSON agreeing with you, and declaring you're right and declaring victory. The possibility that the ONE PERSON might be wrong or honestly mistaken isn't even a possibility. ONE PERSON agrees with you, and even the Doctored experts on the subject who responded must be wrong. But one layman agreed with you, so he and you have to be correct on that. Anybody with those kinds of results who's being honest with themselves and the results knows exactly what it means.]
I believe that it is God-breathed,
but I don't think that is a provable thing.
According to the contents of pfal, it is possible to prove something written is NOT "God-breathed." When this standard was applied to pfal, it surprised nobody EXCEPT MIKE that pfal failed that test. Since it was never meant to be taken as "God-breathed" itself, that wasn't a problem, even for most of its fans. So, it's a DISprovable thing, and it was already disproven.]
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waysider
I knew someone who died trying to make it work. Then, the ministry blamed him for not having big enough believing. He left behind a wife and 2 young kids.
WordWolf
Every once in a while, in society and here, there's someone who engages in this specific fallacy. "I must be right because I'm in the minority." "I must be right because lots of people keep insistin
chockfull
As a different direction with respect to all of the philosophical angles on the law of believing, I am considering Jesus teachings in Matt 6:27 “which of you by taking thought can add one cubit to his
chockfull
Okay so the PFAL “collateral canon” is
FND
INT
Way mag
PFAL/RHST/Studies in Abundant Living
and nothing else.
Got it.
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chockfull
Nice! Those guys are super tight as well as innovative musically.
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OldSkool
No doubt, I love the layered vocals on The G.C...but overall they are smoking and all that to say heck yeah!
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OldSkool
vital information here...you have my 100
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Mike
You need to put fuzzy fonts on the word "is" up there.
And use pencil for all the other fonts.
And use fuzzy fonts on Way Mag
Not sure about JCNG, JCOP, JCPS
It's an open topic for me.
This is similar to the early committees working in the century before 425 A.D. on the NT canon.
*/*/*/*/*/*
And that's another reason Academia is low in my approval ratings: they dumped B.C. and A.D. designations on HisStory's Timeline.
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chockfull
What about Univ of Life? Or Living Victoriously?
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Nathan_Jr
Just look in the pockets of the cloak...or in the bookcase... you'll find the canon there.
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Mike
Oops! Double post.
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Mike
I like them and listen to them, but they were not put into that final written form the others have, which involved other people with holy spirit (even prior to VPW's working), and lots of editing time, and lots of prayer. I see VPW as just one player in the collaterals, while in LV and UoL he is central.
I feel that in all the classes there was that open possibility for passages being "almost straight prophesy" or "God-breathed" or "special." I first started thinking in the early 1970s of the film class in that way.
HOWEVER, it is hard to say where each such passage begins and ends.
*/*/*/*/*/*
I rarely got this far with detail on this 20 years ago. Too much fur was flying.
Another thing to note, 20 years ago I said there was no way I could logically prove that the collaterals being God-breathed.
This was heard by very few. Eventually I would dodge challenges to prove this, because it was impossible. Many thought I was constantly engaged in it, but that was not the case.
What I, however, WAS constantly engaged in was posting that VPW often claimed to be a spokesman for God, and in many different ways. People would post that VPW was rolling in his grave when I posted that way about him, because he taught just the opposite. People said that VPW could NEVER have said that.
So the big debate, as far as I was concerned, was that everyone who was criticizing what we were taught, did not understand what they criticizing. I claimed that VPW claimed it. I did not claim I could prove it true; I just simply believed what he claimed.
MANY said I was in error and I didn’t know what I was defending. So I slowly posted about 20 places where VPW claimed SOMETHING special about the collaterals, and prominently one such place was PFAL page 83.
Of all the “thus saith the lord” claims of VPW’s, page 83 is the corker. I first saw it in the late 1970s, and a few hard core friends of mine saw it too in the film class, where it is nearly identical.
So the big debate morphed again, from the 20 places where VPW claimed against all others, to just page 83.
“Mike, your grammar is crazy on page 83” was what 49 out of 50 people would tell me here, and in splinter groups. But a few grammar experts would agree with me over the years on this page 83 debate, so I pressed on with it, even though no one believed me here…. until Nathan_Jr showed up late one night and reluctantly agreed with me, last September.
So I never debated that the collaterals were “God-breathed.” just that VPW claimed it.
“No he didn’t” was thrown at me, and my comeback was “He did it 20 times” with one big enchilada in the film class and page 83 right under everyone’s noses.
I argued that all those claims of “thus saith the lord” by VPW eluded us for decades (me too except for page 83) and that we are not in a good position to criticize them because we ALL (1) forgot much of the material and (2) were not able to absorb it all.
My solution to this for me, when I saw it, was to follow VPW’s final instructions and come back to PFAL to master the class and master the collaterals the best I could. It was a good review I had for a good 20 years. I’m still learning from them. I am thankful to God for what He did for me, and I look forward to someday thanking Brother Jesus PERSONALLY for all he did to reconcile me to the Father.
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T-Bone
What a cheap shot – you throw wierwille under the bus – that’s pretty low since you have been the one claiming PFAL was God-breathed.
So, your solution was to disengage your cognitive skills.
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Mike
I'm not following what you mean there.
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Nathan_Jr
So what. Victor asserted a claim. So what? He asserted oodles of claims that have been throughly refuted as lies, falsehoods and errors.
He claimed he invented the hook shot!!
Victor Barnard claimed... Jim Jones claimed... L. Ron Hubbard claimed...
Beware the self proclaimed. The one who asserts the claim that he speaks for God is surely the one who does not.
Self proclamations are the confessions of hucksters and liars.
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Mike
I believe that it is God-breathed,
but I don't think that is a provable thing.
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Rocky
It was a rhetorical question.
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Rocky
What? You didn't read it right????????
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Mike
Here is the logic:
I post that VPW claimed PFAL God-breathed.
Others post that he did not claim that.
I post 20 such claims.
Then I post that the others' knowledge of PFAL is insufficient to criticize PFAL because they all missed the 20 claims due to (1) forgetting (2) not absorbing all of it when they heard it.
Meanwhile everyone thinks I am trying to prove that PFAL is God-breathed, when I feel it can only be proved to be true by living it.
There are some subtle things here.
I'll keep trying to clearly describe them.
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Rocky
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Nathan_Jr
Victor claiming that PFAL is God-breathed should be evidence enough that PFAL is NOT God breathed.
HOWEVER, just in case one misses victor's self-indicting claim, there are oodles and oodles of errors that can prove PFAL is not God-breathed. There are so many errors, who could keep track of them all - the ocean of error is vast, many are easily missed.... the first time.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Rocky
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Rocky
Do you get the point, yet?
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So_crates
If your moved goal post now claims PLAF can only be proven it's God-breathe by living it, I and 18,000 others prove your postulate false.
I spent most of my life believing PLAF and trying to make it work. It never did.
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WordWolf
"Here is the logic:"
[Well, we all know THIS isn't going to be sound, but let's see what it is.]
"I post that VPW claimed PFAL God-breathed.
Others post that he did not claim that."
[Yes, that's correct.]
"I post 20 such claims."
vpw, following the pattern of other speakers because he lacked the originality to make up a completely new style himself, used the best phrases and expressions he could find, and pretended he either made them up, or used known ones for some humorous purpose, or so on.
In an attempt to halt disagreement with him, a speaker who was teaching the Bible sometimes would claim "Don't blame me- I didn't write The Book." The meaning is clear- they are claiming to be teaching what THE BIBLE says, and by disagreeing with them, someone is disagreeing with what THE BIBLE says, and not their own opinion. There are other expressions where one claims separation from something to avoid people coming after them, but this one was common enough among Bible teachers, sermonists, homiletists, and so on.
So, here comes vpw. He makes some claim, possibly a controversial claim, that he claims is in THE BIBLE. He forestalls a debate on the subject by claiming it's God's Idea, not his. "Don't blame me- I didn't write the book." Now, remembering that people who came later cleaned up vpw's tortured grammar, added punctuation, and added capitalization where they thought it belonged (vpw was too lazy to do it himself or even proofread the results), we know the expression was the same one, and a lack of capitalization wasn't in what he said because capitalization isn't spoken out loud. His transcribers added-or failed to add- them. So, vpw claims he didn't write THE BIBLE. What other book would he possibly have been referring to at the time? Time, Life, Look, Saturday Evening Post? Supposedly, vpw was entirely about THE BIBLE. When he spoke out loud, he was speaking of THE BIBLE.
Could he have meant the Orange Book, the White Book, the Blue Book? That would have been a heck of a trick- they weren't done when he was first saying all that! There WERE no such books as he got into the habit of saying that. Only years later did they actually get printed- and his meanings didn't suddenly shift to them. When vpw tried to claim he spoke what THE BIBLE said, he claimed to disagree with him was to disagree with THE BIBLE, and thus to disagree with GOD ALMIGHTY.
So, when vpw said "Don't blame me- I didn't write The Book!", its meaning was plain to everyone who took the classes for decades..... until Mike came along and, all by himself, began insisting that it never actually MEANT "THE BIBLE" when vpw said "THE BOOK" there. Even people who've never heard of twi, of vpw, all know The Book is "The Bible." (Back in college, I was waiting for something to start. Other early arrivals were also getting fidgety. I began reading. One of them asked me, "What book are you reading?" I showed them the leather cover. "Oh- THE Book." I went back to reading.)
So, vpw uses that same catchphrase some 20 times, all to prevent people from arguing with him because he supposedly was just reporting the contents of THE BIBLE and he didn't write THE BIBLE. That's not hard to understand.
To hear Mike say it, vpw was disavowing the writing of one pfal book or another. This would be coming from a man who slapped his name on the work of EVERYBODY whenever he got a chance- JCOPS, JCOP, books he barely prefaced, all with "BY VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE" proudly displayed on the cover. Not "EDITED BY" or anything else. But somehow, he decided to keep his name on the cover of certain other books, that say "BY VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE" on the cover, but he made some offhand comments that he didn't actually write them- despite their covers saying that for multiple printings long after he said that.
It's easy to understand for everyone EXCEPT MIKE, who has proudly made up his mind.]
"Then I post that the others' knowledge of PFAL is insufficient to criticize PFAL because they all missed the 20 claims due to (1) forgetting (2) not absorbing all of it when they heard it."
[So, Mike invents a fake standard, where people who failed to MISread or failed to MISunderstand are somehow less astute because they understood EXACTLY what was being said. Mike, however, has the HIDDEN, OCCULTED meanings of the contents. This makes Mike special.]
"Meanwhile everyone thinks I am trying to prove that PFAL is God-breathed, when I feel it can only be proved to be true by living it."
[Meanwhile, pfal specified what it meant for something to be God-breathed, and this is testable for anything written, including pfal. When someone actually tries pfal's standard for "God-breathed" on pfal itself, it fails to hold up, falling FAR short of meeting that standard. Since pfal never claims pfal actually IS "God-breathed", this isn't a problem for anyone else BUT MIKE, the one person who insists that pfal was "God-Breathed." So, it can be proven FALSE easily enough- and was done so about TWENTY FREAKING YEARS AGO, when this was first brought up. Mike keeps skipping over that, of course.
But Mike's said before, that the only way to prove him right or wrong is to ASSUME Mike is right, then spend several months living as if Mike is right, THEN seeing what one thinks. Well, DUH! if one spends several months BRAINWASHING themselves, at the end, they're going to be BRAINWASHED! Mike's offer generally doesn't get a lot of takers.]
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WordWolf
"I feel that in all the classes there was that open possibility for passages being "almost straight prophesy" or "God-breathed" or "special." I first started thinking in the early 1970s of the film class in that way. "
[Yet, one of his claims was that this was something Mike came to in later years. So, he BEGAN his experiences with the film class with this idea EARLY ON.]
"Another thing to note, 20 years ago I said there was no way I could logically prove that the collaterals being God-breathed. "
[Actually, it was logically proven that the collaterals were NOT God-breathed."]
"Mike, your grammar is crazy on page 83” was what 49 out of 50 people would tell me here, and in splinter groups. But a few grammar experts would agree with me over the years on this page 83 debate, so I pressed on with it, even though no one believed me here…. until Nathan_Jr showed up late one night and reluctantly agreed with me, last September."
[So, that's a standard few of us would emulate. 98% of the public disagreeing with you, and ONE PERSON agreeing with you, and declaring you're right and declaring victory. The possibility that the ONE PERSON might be wrong or honestly mistaken isn't even a possibility. ONE PERSON agrees with you, and even the Doctored experts on the subject who responded must be wrong. But one layman agreed with you, so he and you have to be correct on that. Anybody with those kinds of results who's being honest with themselves and the results knows exactly what it means.]
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WordWolf
According to the contents of pfal, it is possible to prove something written is NOT "God-breathed." When this standard was applied to pfal, it surprised nobody EXCEPT MIKE that pfal failed that test. Since it was never meant to be taken as "God-breathed" itself, that wasn't a problem, even for most of its fans. So, it's a DISprovable thing, and it was already disproven.]
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