I too ran a twig of downers and outers, spiritual hobos, lost souls, deep discount oddballs.
Man, did we ever have a blast. We got more new people into the Word, full of joy, enjoying life, livin' da abundant life.
We had twig two nights a week, plus a getogether night.
We was cookin'. Hot bible teaching, lots of genuine Love of God.
We all had past problems, got delivered and we be livin' the high life.
Yeh man, Da Love Of God does heal.......
Until..............
Leadership got wind of us birds. Whats with all the new people?
You mean your putting new people thru the PFAL class? Your happy? Noway, man. Sumptin' sticks.
Well, our branch leader calls me and wants to come over and talk.
I say, OK, how about tonight. We're havin' a get together at the house, all the believers, we will have fun. BC says OK.
Well, he gets to my house, walks in, sees all the believers havin' fun, fellowshippin' and bein' happy. He sits down and scopes out the joint. Gee, everyone is happy, talkin', enjoyin' themselves and the fellowhip, not teachin', just kick back and relax.
The old BC comes up to me and asks me, "Do you guys do this every twig?" I say no. It's just kickback night, enjoy brother.
Than he lays it on me. "I think you guys are havin' orgies"
I'm in shock. I do the usual TWI thing, "don't think evil, just smile."
He leaves, I tell nobody what the dicccckhead said, and we continue to have a good time.
Well, a few months pass by, our twig doubles in size and we were commanded to do a split. Headquarters even announces that we are the only twig in Ohio that split that year. Sounds great, OK, we will do it, if you say so.
"Self governing, self propagating......so on, etc., etc."??
Straight out of the Way tree guidlines........??
NOT Quite..........
Just at the time were we, as a twig, were makin' all the arrangements for who will be attending what twig, which friends wanted to attend the same twig together and so on, the BC and another leader, the Territory leader shows up and tells me, that they will assign the believers to the twig they feel is right.
What can I do, I just got taken over.
So the BC and the territory leader made all the decisions.
Guess what?
They put who they thought were the fu7kups in the same twig; and let a unexperience believer run that twig.
The outcome: We now had two twigs of unhappy believers.
Nobody wanted the split in the first place. The NEED was to stay together.
Total outcome: one twig disbans, the other twig, unhappy.
I'm going to step in something here by posting this - I just know it - but here it goes...
TWI didn't initially acknowledge or communicate with us "possessed" folks by writing the letter about Mrs. W.'s situation. (Sorry Mikey).
They did it first by infiltrating WAYDALE back in early 2000 with WayGB posing as poster and chatroom participants. They caused a lot of problems - Radar can attest to this as well.
TWI leadership confronted many WAYDALE/GREASESPOT CAFE members about their activity here on the internet. Just look up some of the old WAYGB threads.
Additionally, TWI included the shutting down of WAYDALE in the settlement terms with the Allens. TWI DID NOT want WAYDALE accessable to the public. They don't want GREASESPOT CAFE to be up and running either.
Point: Harv didn't set any new standards for communicating with us OPPs other than that he released a letter to be posted on the site. He knew that if he had replied to JP it would also be made public. Harv did it was done as a "one up on you JP" thingy. BFD.
Of course they'd love to see us go away but since that won't work they can only THREATEN the people who are left (i.e. if you surf these sites you too will be possessed).
Now, a refresher course for those of you who took DEFEATING THE ADVERSARY...
What is the secret of the adversary's success?
The secrecracy of his (the adversary's) moves.
Now, some little cult in OH says we're possessed but yet our motives are out in the open. Theirs is not.
Spirit possession has always been used to leverage money to stay within the coffers of TWI.
It was the main accusation against those who stood up to top honchos within the organization and blew the whistle on their sick activities.
At HQ, the typical m.i. would be to fire and escort them off grounds as swiftly as possible to limit who had access to the whistleblower's information, and to intimidate people.
And while that was being done, the person would be immediately slandered as "possessed" at the next meal's announcements (and sooner through the grapevine) so that if and when believers were eventually contacted by the defamed person, they would not take seriously anything they said-- they're possessed, you know.
It is a tactic of fear and intimidation. The person being given the bum's rush is sometimes so stunned it might take them a few days to figure out what hit them. That buys precious time for TWI to cover their *** and do damage control.
If so and so contacts you, don't listen to him. Stay away from him. You know how those possessed people will behave-- they're so angry and possessed they might just pull a gun and... well, you know, it's happened before...
All to keep the abundant sharing from running right out the door at the first word of truth.
No wonder Martindale ran through personal assistants like water. To quote someone who knew..."Ever wonder why anyone who gets close to the guy gets possessed?"
The tactic hasn't changed. It is still employed to this very day from HQ on down to the local fellowship, to do damage control.
yes - I'm sure I'm a card carrying member of the OPP club. After my teenage son and I were falsely accused by twi of being homosexual, the family corps coordinator stated to the remaining in residence people that:
"he could FEEL my evil just by touching my hand"
No wonder they had to watch me closely during the one hour I was "given" to pack up and leave "their campus."
When I then called hq trying to get an appointment to speak with lcm to get to the bottom of this matter (silly me), I was told by the trunk coordinator that there were armed guards cruising hq with our photos so we would not be allowed on grounds.
(Guess they musta been some special kind of devil spirit killin guns...)
I'm proud to be in the company of such wonderful folks as rascal - one of the kindest people I've had the pleasure of knowing. I'd much rather be considered like rascal than like anyone on twi's "acceptable list."
Great information from ChasU and Bowtwi. Is TWI still doing that "homo" thing? You know, where everybody and everything is a "homo"? I haven't seen much of that since LCM left. Also, I could not figure out why Raf's site was "marked" against a Way believer by this Corpse guy they spoke with. I know he had an article pretty much stating tithing was not a law, which I believe, too. Just wondering if he had some personal exchange with TWI that made this guy believe that. His site isn't all that much listing articles against TWI. He does mention grace a lot in his writings. Maybe TWI can't stand that part, I don't know.
Whatever. But I kind of figured they didn't like Greasespot or Pawtucket. I don't know how Paw feels about that. Some ex-Wayers consider a "marked" status by TWI a badge of honor.
I'm still trying to figure out how someone can be possessed and redeemed at the same time. They taught us that being redeemed was one of our sonship rights and it meant we were bought back and the devil absolutely didn't own us anymore. Then one night I go out with the guys and have a bad thought and BOOP out goes the ..well, IN goes the button and I'm possessed.
Personally, I think RFR has the spirit of a diseased Jimmy Carter.
Actually, I think RFR looks more like a diseased Janet Reno.
Ever notice that when twi required us to give something to them, it was always something TANGIBLE?...but the "benefits" we supposedly received from them were always NON-TANGIBLE? Give us your money and we will give you "spiritual enlightenment", etc. The same worked in reverse also...The "consequences" for not obeying them were also NON-TANGIBLE. It's easy enough to say that someones possessed...can you say "applebutter"?
The truth of the matter is that if there even IS such a thing as "devil possession", twi has lost all credibility in making that judgement. Their sophmoric approach to biblical interpretation fails to stand up to even a cursory glance. My guess is that if lcm is not possessed, then nobody is.
quote:I'm still trying to figure out how someone can be possessed and redeemed at the same time. ...
Redemption isn't about the current or future mental condition of the old man. It's all about Christ's sacrifice, and one's acceptance of His lordship and resurrection...
quote:Also, I could not figure out why Raf's site was "marked" against a Way believer by this Corpse guy they spoke with. I know he had an article pretty much stating tithing was not a law, which I believe, too. Just wondering if he had some personal exchange with TWI that made this guy believe that. His site isn't all that much listing articles against TWI. He does mention grace a lot in his writings.
Eagle,
I've had no interaction at all, by e-mail, phone or any other means, with anyone in TWI. It is gratifying, however, to see that I got their attention.
I've removed the articles on the Blue Book and Actual Errors. I may post them again, but I'd rather keep that dialogue here. If that's what upset them, GOOD! If they were upset by my article on tithing, GOOD! If they were upset by my article on Power For Abased Living, GOOD! If they were upset by my various articles on faith, GOOD!
But my intent in my site is not to upset TWI. If I manage to accomplish that task by exposing their errors,...
quote:I'm still trying to figure out how someone can be possessed and redeemed at the same time. ...
Redemption isn't about the current or future mental condition of the old man. It's all about Christ's sacrifice, and one's acceptance of His lordship and resurrection...
====================
Here's one time I agree with Oldies.
Being Born Again is not a forcefield protecting you here and now from all
temptations, etc.
You DO have a "natural resistance", but not an "immunity".
That's still free-will.
If you ASK, God will really go to bat for you.
If you follow His instructions and "touch not the unclean thing",
your potential for harm is minimized.
All accounts I've read-authenticated ones- concerning full-possession
all have one thing in common:
occult activity in the past
Don't fiddle around with the occult, don't fiddle with drugs, stay off
alcohol (a toast is one thing, drunkenness is something else),
and possession should be effectively impossible for you.
You never left an unlocked door open for an intrusion.
Christians are harder to possess than non-Christians, first of all.
They also can call on deliverance, and they should know what to watch out
for. So, much less common for many reasons, but not impossible.
I will edit and re-post the articles (plus the link to the article on plagiarism on GS Cafe AND the brief about plagiarism in Order My Steps in Thy Word.
Did I read that right? Raf is going to re-post all that? TWI I don't believe was specifically mentioned, but Wierwille was in places. Funny thing is, TWI is trying to rid themselves of Wierwille, I think. So the only thing I can guess is that a lot of their "still current" doctrine and class material is still from Wierwille's class. I think the tithing article makes every tithing ministry or church upset at least some, I guess. Possibly the lack of legalism in his stuff rubs some of the Corpse the wrong way. It was just one Corpse guy telling this couple and he names sites. I have two issues on that. One, if he was Corpse, they are usually told what to do from higher authority, or number two, he tells them to avoid the sites specifically, actually wanting them to visit the sites for some reason. Why doesn't he just tell them to stay off the internet like we were told? Why pick on Grease Spot (never mind...I know why) or Living Epistles? Maybe getting all the frustration out in the open is bad on Grease Spot, but Living Epistles challenges some of their doctrine. Again, tithing, grace, the Blue Book, etc. It's hard to figure out who their Public Enemy number one is...Pawtucket or Raf. It seems neither one of them care what TWI thinks. In fact, Raf, you seem rather proud of it. Oh well, if you don't mind the notoriety. It just seems to me that if you went to TWI HQ and mentioned your name, the heads would start spinning and pea soup flying everywhere.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
12
16
14
13
Popular Days
Apr 26
58
Apr 28
24
Apr 27
23
May 2
13
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 12 posts
Eagle 16 posts
Mike 14 posts
Tom Strange 13 posts
Popular Days
Apr 26 2004
58 posts
Apr 28 2004
24 posts
Apr 27 2004
23 posts
May 2 2004
13 posts
Popular Posts
Digitalis
The category of Debul Spurt Possession and who is and what is possessed according to TWI really ticks me off. My Opinion here, this is what I believe, Dealing w/ Advesary, Defeating the Advesary, Ad
templelady
Actually taught by the Twig coordinator from the 9th ring of He!!
"it is okay, to lie, and cheat people who are not part of the household becuase GOD has already rejected them"
COnsidering his other activites.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lightside
CKEER,
I too ran a twig of downers and outers, spiritual hobos, lost souls, deep discount oddballs.
Man, did we ever have a blast. We got more new people into the Word, full of joy, enjoying life, livin' da abundant life.
We had twig two nights a week, plus a getogether night.
We was cookin'. Hot bible teaching, lots of genuine Love of God.
We all had past problems, got delivered and we be livin' the high life.
Yeh man, Da Love Of God does heal.......
Until..............
Leadership got wind of us birds. Whats with all the new people?
You mean your putting new people thru the PFAL class? Your happy? Noway, man. Sumptin' sticks.
Well, our branch leader calls me and wants to come over and talk.
I say, OK, how about tonight. We're havin' a get together at the house, all the believers, we will have fun. BC says OK.
Well, he gets to my house, walks in, sees all the believers havin' fun, fellowshippin' and bein' happy. He sits down and scopes out the joint. Gee, everyone is happy, talkin', enjoyin' themselves and the fellowhip, not teachin', just kick back and relax.
The old BC comes up to me and asks me, "Do you guys do this every twig?" I say no. It's just kickback night, enjoy brother.
Than he lays it on me. "I think you guys are havin' orgies"
I'm in shock. I do the usual TWI thing, "don't think evil, just smile."
He leaves, I tell nobody what the dicccckhead said, and we continue to have a good time.
Well, a few months pass by, our twig doubles in size and we were commanded to do a split. Headquarters even announces that we are the only twig in Ohio that split that year. Sounds great, OK, we will do it, if you say so.
"Self governing, self propagating......so on, etc., etc."??
Straight out of the Way tree guidlines........??
NOT Quite..........
Just at the time were we, as a twig, were makin' all the arrangements for who will be attending what twig, which friends wanted to attend the same twig together and so on, the BC and another leader, the Territory leader shows up and tells me, that they will assign the believers to the twig they feel is right.
What can I do, I just got taken over.
So the BC and the territory leader made all the decisions.
Guess what?
They put who they thought were the fu7kups in the same twig; and let a unexperience believer run that twig.
The outcome: We now had two twigs of unhappy believers.
Nobody wanted the split in the first place. The NEED was to stay together.
Total outcome: one twig disbans, the other twig, unhappy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eagle
What's all this about pancakes? I spit those out the last time I became possessed. "Exie" must mean ex-cathedra. I called her a "he". Sorry, Ex.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
T-Lady! what's the "9th ring of hell"??? Is that an area up there in Uhlaskey?
That's a bummer Lightside! It's amazing what could happen when people walked in love. Still is methinks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
fortunateone
Ha Ha
The pot calling the kettle black.
Name calling and finger pointing is so old school
and downright common.
Get over yourselves you wayfers!
Get out if TWI now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChasUFarley
I'm going to step in something here by posting this - I just know it - but here it goes...
TWI didn't initially acknowledge or communicate with us "possessed" folks by writing the letter about Mrs. W.'s situation. (Sorry Mikey).
They did it first by infiltrating WAYDALE back in early 2000 with WayGB posing as poster and chatroom participants. They caused a lot of problems - Radar can attest to this as well.
TWI leadership confronted many WAYDALE/GREASESPOT CAFE members about their activity here on the internet. Just look up some of the old WAYGB threads.
Additionally, TWI included the shutting down of WAYDALE in the settlement terms with the Allens. TWI DID NOT want WAYDALE accessable to the public. They don't want GREASESPOT CAFE to be up and running either.
Point: Harv didn't set any new standards for communicating with us OPPs other than that he released a letter to be posted on the site. He knew that if he had replied to JP it would also be made public. Harv did it was done as a "one up on you JP" thingy. BFD.
Of course they'd love to see us go away but since that won't work they can only THREATEN the people who are left (i.e. if you surf these sites you too will be possessed).
Now, a refresher course for those of you who took DEFEATING THE ADVERSARY...
What is the secret of the adversary's success?
The secrecracy of his (the adversary's) moves.
Now, some little cult in OH says we're possessed but yet our motives are out in the open. Theirs is not.
Who's got the debbil spirit problems, I ask?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tom Strange
oooh! good points ChasU!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Man -- guess I left too early!!
:(-->
I only learned how to DEAL WITH THE ADVERSARY, not defeat him!
-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Was the "advo" vpw, lcm or the "debil" ??
:P--> 
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
NAw, tom, It's from Dante's novel "THe Inferno" the ninth ring of hell is where GOD sent Judas Iscariot
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Digitalis
Chas ..... Great Point ....
Here is another from that class.
Defeating the Advesary
"the advesary accuses you of what he himself is"
Digi
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
it's ok you didn't discern me, eagle (as that spiritual heavy chewster did)
;)-->
gosh ckeer and lightside, i would take your fellowships any day over the rut locale ones i attended
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catcup
Spirit possession has always been used to leverage money to stay within the coffers of TWI.
It was the main accusation against those who stood up to top honchos within the organization and blew the whistle on their sick activities.
At HQ, the typical m.i. would be to fire and escort them off grounds as swiftly as possible to limit who had access to the whistleblower's information, and to intimidate people.
And while that was being done, the person would be immediately slandered as "possessed" at the next meal's announcements (and sooner through the grapevine) so that if and when believers were eventually contacted by the defamed person, they would not take seriously anything they said-- they're possessed, you know.
It is a tactic of fear and intimidation. The person being given the bum's rush is sometimes so stunned it might take them a few days to figure out what hit them. That buys precious time for TWI to cover their *** and do damage control.
If so and so contacts you, don't listen to him. Stay away from him. You know how those possessed people will behave-- they're so angry and possessed they might just pull a gun and... well, you know, it's happened before...
All to keep the abundant sharing from running right out the door at the first word of truth.
No wonder Martindale ran through personal assistants like water. To quote someone who knew..."Ever wonder why anyone who gets close to the guy gets possessed?"
The tactic hasn't changed. It is still employed to this very day from HQ on down to the local fellowship, to do damage control.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bowtwi
yes - I'm sure I'm a card carrying member of the OPP club. After my teenage son and I were falsely accused by twi of being homosexual, the family corps coordinator stated to the remaining in residence people that:
"he could FEEL my evil just by touching my hand"
No wonder they had to watch me closely during the one hour I was "given" to pack up and leave "their campus."
When I then called hq trying to get an appointment to speak with lcm to get to the bottom of this matter (silly me), I was told by the trunk coordinator that there were armed guards cruising hq with our photos so we would not be allowed on grounds.
(Guess they musta been some special kind of devil spirit killin guns...)
I'm proud to be in the company of such wonderful folks as rascal - one of the kindest people I've had the pleasure of knowing. I'd much rather be considered like rascal than like anyone on twi's "acceptable list."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eagle
Great information from ChasU and Bowtwi. Is TWI still doing that "homo" thing? You know, where everybody and everything is a "homo"? I haven't seen much of that since LCM left. Also, I could not figure out why Raf's site was "marked" against a Way believer by this Corpse guy they spoke with. I know he had an article pretty much stating tithing was not a law, which I believe, too. Just wondering if he had some personal exchange with TWI that made this guy believe that. His site isn't all that much listing articles against TWI. He does mention grace a lot in his writings. Maybe TWI can't stand that part, I don't know.
Whatever. But I kind of figured they didn't like Greasespot or Pawtucket. I don't know how Paw feels about that. Some ex-Wayers consider a "marked" status by TWI a badge of honor.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
I'm still trying to figure out how someone can be possessed and redeemed at the same time. They taught us that being redeemed was one of our sonship rights and it meant we were bought back and the devil absolutely didn't own us anymore. Then one night I go out with the guys and have a bad thought and BOOP out goes the ..well, IN goes the button and I'm possessed.
Personally, I think RFR has the spirit of a diseased Jimmy Carter.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
Actually, I think RFR looks more like a diseased Janet Reno.
Ever notice that when twi required us to give something to them, it was always something TANGIBLE?...but the "benefits" we supposedly received from them were always NON-TANGIBLE? Give us your money and we will give you "spiritual enlightenment", etc. The same worked in reverse also...The "consequences" for not obeying them were also NON-TANGIBLE. It's easy enough to say that someones possessed...can you say "applebutter"?
The truth of the matter is that if there even IS such a thing as "devil possession", twi has lost all credibility in making that judgement. Their sophmoric approach to biblical interpretation fails to stand up to even a cursory glance. My guess is that if lcm is not possessed, then nobody is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
def59
I believe demons can oppress Christians.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
oldiesman
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Eagle,
I've had no interaction at all, by e-mail, phone or any other means, with anyone in TWI. It is gratifying, however, to see that I got their attention.
I've removed the articles on the Blue Book and Actual Errors. I may post them again, but I'd rather keep that dialogue here. If that's what upset them, GOOD! If they were upset by my article on tithing, GOOD! If they were upset by my article on Power For Abased Living, GOOD! If they were upset by my various articles on faith, GOOD!
But my intent in my site is not to upset TWI. If I manage to accomplish that task by exposing their errors,...
GOOD!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
====================
Here's one time I agree with Oldies.
Being Born Again is not a forcefield protecting you here and now from all
temptations, etc.
You DO have a "natural resistance", but not an "immunity".
That's still free-will.
If you ASK, God will really go to bat for you.
If you follow His instructions and "touch not the unclean thing",
your potential for harm is minimized.
All accounts I've read-authenticated ones- concerning full-possession
all have one thing in common:
occult activity in the past
Don't fiddle around with the occult, don't fiddle with drugs, stay off
alcohol (a toast is one thing, drunkenness is something else),
and possession should be effectively impossible for you.
You never left an unlocked door open for an intrusion.
Christians are harder to possess than non-Christians, first of all.
They also can call on deliverance, and they should know what to watch out
for. So, much less common for many reasons, but not impossible.
===================
Raf,
didn't you get their message?
Someone wishes to read your articles!
(Otherwise, why an opinion.)
Obviously, they want access to them!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Raf
Grrr. I hate when you have a point.
I will edit and re-post the articles (plus the link to the article on plagiarism on GS Cafe AND the brief about plagiarism in Order My Steps in Thy Word.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Eagle
Did I read that right? Raf is going to re-post all that? TWI I don't believe was specifically mentioned, but Wierwille was in places. Funny thing is, TWI is trying to rid themselves of Wierwille, I think. So the only thing I can guess is that a lot of their "still current" doctrine and class material is still from Wierwille's class. I think the tithing article makes every tithing ministry or church upset at least some, I guess. Possibly the lack of legalism in his stuff rubs some of the Corpse the wrong way. It was just one Corpse guy telling this couple and he names sites. I have two issues on that. One, if he was Corpse, they are usually told what to do from higher authority, or number two, he tells them to avoid the sites specifically, actually wanting them to visit the sites for some reason. Why doesn't he just tell them to stay off the internet like we were told? Why pick on Grease Spot (never mind...I know why) or Living Epistles? Maybe getting all the frustration out in the open is bad on Grease Spot, but Living Epistles challenges some of their doctrine. Again, tithing, grace, the Blue Book, etc. It's hard to figure out who their Public Enemy number one is...Pawtucket or Raf. It seems neither one of them care what TWI thinks. In fact, Raf, you seem rather proud of it. Oh well, if you don't mind the notoriety. It just seems to me that if you went to TWI HQ and mentioned your name, the heads would start spinning and pea soup flying everywhere.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Wolf and Oldies: Your points are true enough, but there's still no place in the NT which says any believer is possessed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.