Like you, I hate being told what to do or how I should behave. Even if it comes from someone I love - my defenses go up like a brick wall.
I'm leery of anyone who is too cheerful or positive - even if it is sincere. I was never a very upbeat person when I was in TWI, had to work hard on that positive believing thing. Now that I'm not in TWI anymore, I've become much more negative, suspicious and cynical. Renewed mind is no longer an option.
Oh, and I've pretty much lost my faith. We tried church about a year after our escape from TWI, and as much as I wanted to be moved by the whole experience, or perhaps feel God's call again, it left me empty.
Please don't offer to pray for me because I don't think it will do any good!
I was in too long - any good TWI 1 did for me in the early years was made null and void by TWI 2.
No more than Christmas was "spoiled" when I found out there was no Santa Claus.
It was an eye-opener fer sure. But spoiled?
Nah, but like the "tree of knowledge" in the garden, once you taste of it, there's no going back. Really, I can't imagine ever entertaining any mystical notions of creation or an afterlife or any of the icky religious sort of feelings I had in church or WayWorld.
There's nothing to it. It's an empty cistern, a vapid, banal concept. Why does anyone waste their time with it?
Spoiled? Nothing, really. I've gotten to the point in my life where I don't give them that much power. I've always been pretty optimistic person and am again now that I'm out of der veg.
Except maybe that midwestern yelling thing. Nah, I didn't like it when I was in so that's the same too.
Good question though. I'm looking forward to hearing other answers.
I'm leery of anyone who is too cheerful or positive - even if it is sincere.
I hear that, loud and clear. But not only in the "religious" field. Working with folks who have handi-caps, I often notice the "staff" who are assigned to them, being just that way. They (the staff folks) talk in a louder voice (to the "clients"), appear to be more "cheery", upbeat, whatever -- to mask their feelings of discomfort of being in the situation called "work" at a group home.
I could go on and on about this, but I won't. To put it bluntly, the "overly-zealous" are salesmen, reguardless of the product.
I, for one, would never dream of trying to find another job that doesn't have folks with handicaps working there, cause they are just too much fun to be with! They are more real to me, than the "real" world, and "see things through a glass clearly". But I don't let the over-enthusiastic staff deter me from the pleasure I get from working with these people.
Nothing has been spoiled for me by my ex-twi experience, anymore than any other church I used to belong to. I still believe, I still find snippets of info that help me along the way, I toss out the trash, I hang on to the good, I incorporate into myself that which is (imho) "becoming, and profitable".
I do this at work, I do this with "religious beliefs", I do this with LIFE.
God can transcend all this crap, and I'm glad I'm on the road that may have a few detours here and there, but gets you there in the end.
I was in too long - any good TWI 1 did for me in the early years was made null and void by TWI 2.
****
Yup, that's how I feel about it,too.
I look at the photo albums of when my kids were small,but remember the behind the scenes crap we were going through. There was always something.
I do not enjoy groups, clubs or class settings, though if they are blue jean/sneaker casual I'm more comfortable. I tend to resent having to put the time into such things for work etc.
While I have gone to public festivals etc, I prefer to practice my beliefs in private in my own home and yard.
I'm no longer a Bible believer/Christian, but I do understand that not all groups/churches are like the Way. Most of the churches are much better in helping their followers with quality of life issues than the Way was, as far as I can see. I just lost interest somewhere along the way, and saw no reason to pretend to believe so I could belong to a group.
I already had a high level of skepticism for organized religion before my Way Dayz. I warily got involved because the idea that I could read the Bible myself and didn't have to rely on a preacher telling me what it all meant was appealing, and I wanted to hear more about it.
Once it dawned on me that, in practice, twi was just another religion with preachers telling me what the Bible said, it only strengthened my resolve not to get too entrenched ever again in any group of people for religious purposes. But it didn't affect my awe and love for God or Jesus Christ. I just went back to where I was before, believing that spirituality doesn't depend on a group or its leaders' approval.
And BTW, I'm from Ohio (the northern part), and we don't sound anything like VP or the TV preachers! And we certainly don't have LCM's Okie twang. :)-->
God? No. Fellowship? Definitely depends. I don't need other people around to know God loves me. I still pray in the name of Jesus Christ as before, but now that I have a family I make decisions accordingly. I didn't like church when I was a kid and my kids don't all like it and I'm not going to drag them to fellowship and make them feel like .... just because they don't like it now. Doing that would guarantee they'd never like it.
I guess there's some things that I'd never again take from any leader.
After being "in" for 12 years, and "out" for 4 years, I find that the longer I am away from twi, the more abhorrent the whole experience has become, and the less appeal any sort of organized religious experience holds for me. In fact, the whole idea of going to church gives me an involuntary shudder, and ANYTHING that involves regular meetings loses my interest immediately! Lots of repressed (and not so repressed!) anger over giving control of my life and my mind to the twi-ts for so many years.
I haven't been able to read the Bible (and so far don't find that is a problem either ) I work with someone who is extremely "churchy" and conservatively fundamental, and it irritates the h*ll out of me, and I find I go out of my way to say things I know will set her off, just because I can! My irreverance offends her, and her religiosity offends me. :P-->
I still believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible.
However, I am incredibly suspicious of anyone who tries to tell me what to do. We go to a small group at church, or used to, and had a few incidents which have encouraged me to stay away because it was to "TWI-ish": My husband works as a restaurant manager part time, because he likes to, and when this group met on Sunday nights, he had his schedule arranged so we could go. Then the group leaders decided to meet on Saturday nights and fussed and carried on and whined because my husband couldn't come. One woman even prayed for his schedule to change! This annoyed me no end. Set off alarms, too - no one's business what he does.
Then, the last time I went, one woman made this blanket statement: "It is the HEIGHT OF ARROGANCE not to read God's Word every day." My shi tometer went off on that one. Been there, done that. No fun.
I don't know if I will ever get to the point where I'm not on the lookout for TWI-like stuff from well meaning people.
but I don't blame God for this kind of crap. Well meaning people sometimes take things too seriously, starting with themselves, and then it gets all out of hand.
I don't read the BIBle(way brain), I don't trust anyone that does, don't like crowds, very cautious of male athority, refuse to discuss religion (will talk about spirituality), get very anxious when micromanaged, have a weary eye for those that are overyly positive and refuse to dressup when I do attend church.
On the other hand "religion" has pushed me to think for myself, trust my inner core, feel comfortable reading other material other than Christian, work on my confidence, set strong limits and boundries, not second guess myself and has opened up a rainbow of spirituality to me. So as much has been spoiled much has been gained.
For me it was 20 years ago, so its kinda a mute point. I have traveled the weary road of the First Assemblies and Lutheran Charismatics, and found that I can get disenfranchised their as well. However, it never has been the rhetorical doctrinal diputes with other Christians that occured with the Way. More like the proverbial why is this person gossiping about me when they should be keeping there mouths shut. And after that i went off verbially in there face, I could look at myself in the mirror and feel just fine. Kinda nice to hand out one of those rebukes on occassion and not get all spiritual about it. YYYYEEEEEEEEEE Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Spoiled?...I never lost my faith but I was angry with God for about ten years. That anger ended about 8 years ago and today I consider my twi experience to be valuble in the sense that I now have a well developed bull.... meter. I, like others, do not affiliate myself with any church or group of any kind. My faith is a personal journey and needs no validation or reinforcement from any institutions. I prefer it that way.
C'mon George, don't be so shy...tell us how you really feel.
quote:What is being kept from you possibly benefitting from things that you could use in your life because of your experience in TWI?
Absolutely nothing.
I refuse to be a continual victim, blaming twi for problems, or lost opportunities.
As long as I'm still breathing, I can still do things and enjoy accomplishments. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" is still the truth for today!
“Nothing has been spoiled for me by my ex-twi experience, anymore than any other church I used to belong to. I still believe, I still find snippets of info that help me along the way, I toss out the trash, I hang on to the good, I incorporate into myself that which is (imho) "becoming, and profitable".
I do this at work, I do this with "religious beliefs", I do this with LIFE.
God can transcend all this crap, and I'm glad I'm on the road that may have a few detours here and there, but gets you there in the end.”
Could not have been said better, Hooray.
LindaZ-
“I already had a high level of skepticism for organized religion before my Way Dayz.”
Same here, and I think such is healthy for us. After all so many religions do take un-due advantage of their followers. . . .
“I warily got involved because the idea that I could read the Bible myself and didn't have to rely on a preacher telling me what it all meant was appealing, and I wanted to hear more about it.”
You hold fast to some parts, those parts which you can profit from and bless others with . . . .
Watery Gardens-
“but I don't blame God for this kind of crap. Well meaning people sometimes take things too seriously, starting with themselves, and then it gets all out of hand.”
I like that quote.
Oldie-
“I refuse to be a continual victim, blaming twi for problems, or lost opportunities.
As long as I'm still breathing, I can still do things and enjoy accomplishments. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" is still the truth for today!”
I will no longer call the Bible THE Word of God in the sense that TWI taught it, nor do I believe it is unerringly accurate, nor will I submit myself ever again to any man who wants spiritual authority over me, nor will I automatically give money to those who claim to be the only ones who should be receiving it.
TWI and other groups have probably queered the pitch.
GOd and Jesus Christ were my anchor before TWI and have remained so--B Ut I am leary of Preachers who claim to have my interest s at heart whose plea everyother week is for more money--(if it's a TV ministry make that 10+ times a day).
LIke the LDS church for that-don't have preachers per se and what you give is your business-no offering plates so everyone can quess you level of sprituality
You might give your tithing in envelopes to the local church leadership and outside of any formal collection templelady but the tithe is still preached and drummed into you time and again and the amount you give is noted as you have to complete a form to go in the envelope.
So it's hardly anonymous and can be used as a gauge of honesty in temple recommend interviews.
Nor are detailed accounts published for all to see where the money is going.
tithe is taught --I don't know about "drummed into" at least not in my little corner of the universe.
And No one outside of the Bishopric and the Ward clerk ever see the contents of that envelope--much better deal that the collection plate where everyone --from the snoopy lady across the street to the milk carrier-- can note just how much you gice and how often,at least I think so
I would define it as something that was once sweet but that ended up leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Something I used to take pleasure in but the more time I spent around it, I encountered mostly pain or unpleasantness.
...........................................
For me, God is still the same God. I assign no blame to God for any of my experiences. My choices to stay, leave, listen, talk, whatever were mine.
The Word is tainted for me in that every occurance of "also" or "receive" still seems to jump out at me (not in the literal sence, of course) but "way brain" as we often call it highlights certain word, verses, books, etc. from the Bible. I've taken to reading anything BUT the KJV as a result. I really enjoy one version called "The Word" and some other hippie version my husband has, although it's almost "too modern" - almost comical at places.
Religion - that's another story. I probably have way more respect for the diversity of beliefs than I had when I was in TWI, but I'm glad when they keep their beliefs to themselves. No thanks - not interested - gave at the office... I have no desire to join and don't miss "group sports".
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Hope R.
Oh Chas... where do I start?
Like you, I hate being told what to do or how I should behave. Even if it comes from someone I love - my defenses go up like a brick wall.
I'm leery of anyone who is too cheerful or positive - even if it is sincere. I was never a very upbeat person when I was in TWI, had to work hard on that positive believing thing. Now that I'm not in TWI anymore, I've become much more negative, suspicious and cynical. Renewed mind is no longer an option.
Oh, and I've pretty much lost my faith. We tried church about a year after our escape from TWI, and as much as I wanted to be moved by the whole experience, or perhaps feel God's call again, it left me empty.
Please don't offer to pray for me because I don't think it will do any good!
I was in too long - any good TWI 1 did for me in the early years was made null and void by TWI 2.
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George Aar
I dunno. Spoiled?
No more than Christmas was "spoiled" when I found out there was no Santa Claus.
It was an eye-opener fer sure. But spoiled?
Nah, but like the "tree of knowledge" in the garden, once you taste of it, there's no going back. Really, I can't imagine ever entertaining any mystical notions of creation or an afterlife or any of the icky religious sort of feelings I had in church or WayWorld.
There's nothing to it. It's an empty cistern, a vapid, banal concept. Why does anyone waste their time with it?
I couldn't begin to tell you, anymore...
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JustThinking
Spoiled? Nothing, really. I've gotten to the point in my life where I don't give them that much power. I've always been pretty optimistic person and am again now that I'm out of der veg.
Except maybe that midwestern yelling thing. Nah, I didn't like it when I was in so that's the same too.
Good question though. I'm looking forward to hearing other answers.
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dmiller
I hear that, loud and clear. But not only in the "religious" field. Working with folks who have handi-caps, I often notice the "staff" who are assigned to them, being just that way. They (the staff folks) talk in a louder voice (to the "clients"), appear to be more "cheery", upbeat, whatever -- to mask their feelings of discomfort of being in the situation called "work" at a group home.
I could go on and on about this, but I won't. To put it bluntly, the "overly-zealous" are salesmen, reguardless of the product.
I, for one, would never dream of trying to find another job that doesn't have folks with handicaps working there, cause they are just too much fun to be with! They are more real to me, than the "real" world, and "see things through a glass clearly". But I don't let the over-enthusiastic staff deter me from the pleasure I get from working with these people.
Nothing has been spoiled for me by my ex-twi experience, anymore than any other church I used to belong to. I still believe, I still find snippets of info that help me along the way, I toss out the trash, I hang on to the good, I incorporate into myself that which is (imho) "becoming, and profitable".
I do this at work, I do this with "religious beliefs", I do this with LIFE.
God can transcend all this crap, and I'm glad I'm on the road that may have a few detours here and there, but gets you there in the end.
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dmiller
woops --- guess I just became a salesman!
--> 
:D-->
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Bramble
Quote, Hope R:
I was in too long - any good TWI 1 did for me in the early years was made null and void by TWI 2.
****
Yup, that's how I feel about it,too.
I look at the photo albums of when my kids were small,but remember the behind the scenes crap we were going through. There was always something.
I do not enjoy groups, clubs or class settings, though if they are blue jean/sneaker casual I'm more comfortable. I tend to resent having to put the time into such things for work etc.
While I have gone to public festivals etc, I prefer to practice my beliefs in private in my own home and yard.
I'm no longer a Bible believer/Christian, but I do understand that not all groups/churches are like the Way. Most of the churches are much better in helping their followers with quality of life issues than the Way was, as far as I can see. I just lost interest somewhere along the way, and saw no reason to pretend to believe so I could belong to a group.
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WordWolf
Well,
now I pay attention to the man behind the curtain.
Other than that, no.
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Linda Z
I already had a high level of skepticism for organized religion before my Way Dayz. I warily got involved because the idea that I could read the Bible myself and didn't have to rely on a preacher telling me what it all meant was appealing, and I wanted to hear more about it.
Once it dawned on me that, in practice, twi was just another religion with preachers telling me what the Bible said, it only strengthened my resolve not to get too entrenched ever again in any group of people for religious purposes. But it didn't affect my awe and love for God or Jesus Christ. I just went back to where I was before, believing that spirituality doesn't depend on a group or its leaders' approval.
And BTW, I'm from Ohio (the northern part), and we don't sound anything like VP or the TV preachers! And we certainly don't have LCM's Okie twang.
:)-->
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Tom Strange
Sometimes... depends... can't give you any more of a concise answer than that...
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johniam
God? No. Fellowship? Definitely depends. I don't need other people around to know God loves me. I still pray in the name of Jesus Christ as before, but now that I have a family I make decisions accordingly. I didn't like church when I was a kid and my kids don't all like it and I'm not going to drag them to fellowship and make them feel like .... just because they don't like it now. Doing that would guarantee they'd never like it.
I guess there's some things that I'd never again take from any leader.
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2fortheroad
After being "in" for 12 years, and "out" for 4 years, I find that the longer I am away from twi, the more abhorrent the whole experience has become, and the less appeal any sort of organized religious experience holds for me. In fact, the whole idea of going to church gives me an involuntary shudder, and ANYTHING that involves regular meetings loses my interest immediately! Lots of repressed (and not so repressed!) anger over giving control of my life and my mind to the twi-ts for so many years.
I haven't been able to read the Bible (and so far don't find that is a problem either
) I work with someone who is extremely "churchy" and conservatively fundamental, and it irritates the h*ll out of me, and I find I go out of my way to say things I know will set her off, just because I can! My irreverance offends her, and her religiosity offends me. 
:P-->
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Watered Garden
I still believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible.
However, I am incredibly suspicious of anyone who tries to tell me what to do. We go to a small group at church, or used to, and had a few incidents which have encouraged me to stay away because it was to "TWI-ish": My husband works as a restaurant manager part time, because he likes to, and when this group met on Sunday nights, he had his schedule arranged so we could go. Then the group leaders decided to meet on Saturday nights and fussed and carried on and whined because my husband couldn't come. One woman even prayed for his schedule to change! This annoyed me no end. Set off alarms, too - no one's business what he does.
Then, the last time I went, one woman made this blanket statement: "It is the HEIGHT OF ARROGANCE not to read God's Word every day." My shi tometer went off on that one. Been there, done that. No fun.
I don't know if I will ever get to the point where I'm not on the lookout for TWI-like stuff from well meaning people.
but I don't blame God for this kind of crap. Well meaning people sometimes take things too seriously, starting with themselves, and then it gets all out of hand.
WG
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Bluzeman
Chas...those of us in the mid-west do NOT have an accent. It's the rest of the country that has an accent!
:D-->
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imbus
I don't read the BIBle(way brain), I don't trust anyone that does, don't like crowds, very cautious of male athority, refuse to discuss religion (will talk about spirituality), get very anxious when micromanaged, have a weary eye for those that are overyly positive and refuse to dressup when I do attend church.
On the other hand "religion" has pushed me to think for myself, trust my inner core, feel comfortable reading other material other than Christian, work on my confidence, set strong limits and boundries, not second guess myself and has opened up a rainbow of spirituality to me. So as much has been spoiled much has been gained.
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sky4it
For me it was 20 years ago, so its kinda a mute point. I have traveled the weary road of the First Assemblies and Lutheran Charismatics, and found that I can get disenfranchised their as well. However, it never has been the rhetorical doctrinal diputes with other Christians that occured with the Way. More like the proverbial why is this person gossiping about me when they should be keeping there mouths shut. And after that i went off verbially in there face, I could look at myself in the mirror and feel just fine. Kinda nice to hand out one of those rebukes on occassion and not get all spiritual about it. YYYYEEEEEEEEEE Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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GrouchoMarxJr
Spoiled?...I never lost my faith but I was angry with God for about ten years. That anger ended about 8 years ago and today I consider my twi experience to be valuble in the sense that I now have a well developed bull.... meter. I, like others, do not affiliate myself with any church or group of any kind. My faith is a personal journey and needs no validation or reinforcement from any institutions. I prefer it that way.
C'mon George, don't be so shy...tell us how you really feel.
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oldiesman
Absolutely nothing.
I refuse to be a continual victim, blaming twi for problems, or lost opportunities.
As long as I'm still breathing, I can still do things and enjoy accomplishments. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" is still the truth for today!
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Galen
Dmiller-
“Nothing has been spoiled for me by my ex-twi experience, anymore than any other church I used to belong to. I still believe, I still find snippets of info that help me along the way, I toss out the trash, I hang on to the good, I incorporate into myself that which is (imho) "becoming, and profitable".
I do this at work, I do this with "religious beliefs", I do this with LIFE.
God can transcend all this crap, and I'm glad I'm on the road that may have a few detours here and there, but gets you there in the end.”
Could not have been said better, Hooray.
LindaZ-
“I already had a high level of skepticism for organized religion before my Way Dayz.”
Same here, and I think such is healthy for us. After all so many religions do take un-due advantage of their followers. . . .
“I warily got involved because the idea that I could read the Bible myself and didn't have to rely on a preacher telling me what it all meant was appealing, and I wanted to hear more about it.”
You hold fast to some parts, those parts which you can profit from and bless others with . . . .
Watery Gardens-
“but I don't blame God for this kind of crap. Well meaning people sometimes take things too seriously, starting with themselves, and then it gets all out of hand.”
I like that quote.
Oldie-
“I refuse to be a continual victim, blaming twi for problems, or lost opportunities.
As long as I'm still breathing, I can still do things and enjoy accomplishments. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" is still the truth for today!”
Agreed.
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Trefor Heywood
How do you define "spoiled"?
I will no longer call the Bible THE Word of God in the sense that TWI taught it, nor do I believe it is unerringly accurate, nor will I submit myself ever again to any man who wants spiritual authority over me, nor will I automatically give money to those who claim to be the only ones who should be receiving it.
TWI and other groups have probably queered the pitch.
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templelady
GOd and Jesus Christ were my anchor before TWI and have remained so--B Ut I am leary of Preachers who claim to have my interest s at heart whose plea everyother week is for more money--(if it's a TV ministry make that 10+ times a day).
LIke the LDS church for that-don't have preachers per se and what you give is your business-no offering plates so everyone can quess you level of sprituality
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Trefor Heywood
You might give your tithing in envelopes to the local church leadership and outside of any formal collection templelady but the tithe is still preached and drummed into you time and again and the amount you give is noted as you have to complete a form to go in the envelope.
So it's hardly anonymous and can be used as a gauge of honesty in temple recommend interviews.
Nor are detailed accounts published for all to see where the money is going.
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templelady
Trevor,
tithe is taught --I don't know about "drummed into" at least not in my little corner of the universe.
And No one outside of the Bishopric and the Ward clerk ever see the contents of that envelope--much better deal that the collection plate where everyone --from the snoopy lady across the street to the milk carrier-- can note just how much you gice and how often,at least I think so
Cheers
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ChasUFarley
Spoiled...
I would define it as something that was once sweet but that ended up leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Something I used to take pleasure in but the more time I spent around it, I encountered mostly pain or unpleasantness.
...........................................
For me, God is still the same God. I assign no blame to God for any of my experiences. My choices to stay, leave, listen, talk, whatever were mine.
The Word is tainted for me in that every occurance of "also" or "receive" still seems to jump out at me (not in the literal sence, of course) but "way brain" as we often call it highlights certain word, verses, books, etc. from the Bible. I've taken to reading anything BUT the KJV as a result. I really enjoy one version called "The Word" and some other hippie version my husband has, although it's almost "too modern" - almost comical at places.
Religion - that's another story. I probably have way more respect for the diversity of beliefs than I had when I was in TWI, but I'm glad when they keep their beliefs to themselves. No thanks - not interested - gave at the office... I have no desire to join and don't miss "group sports".
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def59
What was spoiled for me?
My desire to be in a cult, where I was one of the elite, special ones.
My love for the King James Version of the Bible.
My respect for any organization.
Apple Juice in August.
Nametags and trips to Ohio and Kansas.
The ability to rationalize sin.
Other than that, not much.
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