I don't think it's much different Mr. H. I haven't even been out a year and what it took for me was:
1. asking too many questions about doctrinal issues
2. asking for how to practically apply the debt issue and to continue asking when they wouldn't give me an answer
3. sharing these frustrations with others still "in"
4. being accused of posting on GSpot
5. wanting to have children AND keep working since we couldn't afford them otherwise
6. confronting leadership when they were wrong or inconsistent
7. Never mentioned, but I think also having an excellent relationship with my BAPTIST, non-TWI family.
Today in TWI you can have a mortgage, but you are pushed to the outside ring of "insiders" and not allowed to be a HFC, WD, WC or wear your AC nametag because you no longer have that status. You also can't attend the AC special. I'll bet that those who have bought houses are also financing cars and not mentioning that. Why bother? You're already "weak" in their eyes for not "believing God" to meet your need.
If you question leadership, doctrine or express doubt or lack of support for TWIt leadership you will be very kindly shown the door. Individualism and Questions are not allowed. Just write them down on a sheet of paper and we'll answer them when the lights go out.
The Way is always going to do well in terms of money and supporters no matter what any one says about them even when it is the truth.
Religions survive, and radio talk shows continue to grow, because they offer people the option of relinquishing their God given right of independent thought.
The price is good 10 or 15 percent of you time and/or money.
Religion and gov’t are the most in demand services on the planet. I personally think the worst of them all is the Christian religion precisely because of all the splinter groups like the Way.
1. Get a loan. Any kind of loan, for house, car, education, etc. May have not been universal, but loads of people were harrassed and put out because of this.
Not a problem for me. I've been "cash and carry" for a long time,
2. Have a real problem. Especially mental or emotional. Sure quick ticket to the curb.
There are those who suggest that I have a mental problem ( :D-->); but again, not my experience.
3. Disagree with the MOG/WOG. Doesn't make any difference if you are right or wrong.
Here we go. As doctrines got nuttier and nuttier, I couldn't help but speak out. (I think two of my favorites were "It was okay for the Hebrew midwives to lie, because God told them to" and "The only reason for a space program is military dominance.") Even when I figured I'd just leave it alone, someone (usually my TC) would ask me what I thought about it. I never felt inclined to lie about it (although maybe God was telling me to ;)-->).
4. Offer a few real useful suggestions, like maybe we oughta take advantage of using the internet. Score one for Igotout.
I don't remember ever making suggestions on a grand scale like that. If I made suggestions about Twig, they were usually afforded consideration.
5. Work at a job that schedules you for work when you should be at "fellowship". It has happened..
Again, not my problem. Early on, when I was in graduate school, sometimes my duties conflicted with Twig; but I never got reproved for that. In later years, though, I had the audacity to play softball one night a week and miss one of the two (or three) retreads of the SNS.
6. Get sick during a meeting, and have to get up during said meeting. I personally know of one account that the person was told to leave and not come back because of it.
I got the stomach flu during an Advanced Class on the field (in Houston). This was years ago, and people actually were concerned about me.
7. Be under ANY suspicion of being a homosexual. False suspicion, or otherwise. Don't have a dog, and don't like to go hunting or fishing? You're a prime candidate.
My BC asked me if I were homosexual during a general reaming. Since ALL the evidence was contrary, he desisted. By this time, I was probably branded such a troublemaker that he was looking for this as an excuse to boot me.
8. Refuse to discuss your finances with your beloved "coordinator".
My ABS was probably the highest and most consistent of anybody in the branch, so I was never bothered about this. Especially since I had no debt.
So, from your experience, what did it take to get tossed out?
In my case, it was generally the ability to think logically. Interestingly, the "final straw" was my leading songs (FROM THE SONGBOOK) that others in the Twig didn't know. I was trying to add a little variety, but I was labeled "arrogant."
I used to read this comic called the fabulous furry freak bros. about 3 60s/70s style hippie dopers. One time they tried to go into Disneyland. Before they could go in, this man called the 'attitude inspector' looked intently into each of their eyes for a few seconds. Then he let 2 of them go in, but said the 3rd couldn't go in because he had a bad attitude. Sounds like TWI now uses this method.
Some people around here got thrown out because, they were just, really NICE. Goodhearted. I am only somewhat nice. Took them a little longer to notice me.
"Attitude inspectors" heh heh. I used to read those too. They decided to publish all of the old FFFB comics in a book form. Can be found on da web..
Boy, I think that's correct. A lot of the corpses sent here were kind of like that. But usually it wasn't attitude they looked at first.. first came the mouth inspection. Candidates had to be not only able to be "happy", but have a happy smile as well..
George, some on my list were not REAL widespread- I think some were usually something they sprung on somebody that they had already determined that they wanted to get rid of.
"so and so has proven to have a problem with humility and obedience. He/she refuses to quit his job and find more suitable employment so as to be available at all times for da household.." This may sound ridiculous, but not far off from some of the explanations I have heard why somebody was not welcome anymore.
Have a brain and use it. I like that...maybee take a brain and warp it also..That is what you do if you want to be a way leader Key words discribing Way leaders being "Want to be"
That was SO true! Does anyone else remember this being used as an example of going "two by two" for safety and to share the word?
And then they would tell us we don't live seperately becuase we have to be in the world not retreat from it. Yet, we cannot hang out with the world. That would be devilish
Put an Alka Seltzer under your tongue at the beginning of fellowship...when somebody speaks in tongues...start growling and letting the foam run out of your mouth...
George, some on my list were not REAL widespread- I think some were usually something they sprung on somebody that they had already determined that they wanted to get rid of.
"so and so has proven to have a problem with humility and obedience. He/she refuses to quit his job and find more suitable employment so as to be available at all times for da household.." This may sound ridiculous, but not far off from some of the explanations I have heard why somebody was not welcome anymore.
Actually, I was hard-hearted because I wouldn't sell my house (which I owned free and clear, of course) to move closer to my TC (and 40 miles further from work). Of course, my TC wound up moving shortly thereafter -- to be closer to his work! -->
Honestly...I read these things and shake my head...
I came from the era when people didn't get kicked out of the ministry...This whole nazi, police state mentality, lets control their lives crap was all Martindale...Wierwille put the hammer down on people in the corps...but never "Joe believer" at home going to twig...
We used to have regular twig members who NEVER abundantly shared, only came to twig when they felt like it, never went to any "big meetings", questioned leadership constantly, smoked dope DURING twig fellowship, were in debt up to their arses, and had more personal problems than a toilet cleaner at a bean factory in Tiajuana...The teaching at the time was that we were to "love the unlovable" and that you ALWAYS welcomed people back into the fellowship...in order for somebody to be kicked out, they had to have stolen the ABS money, beat up the twig leaders wife and burned down the limb home...
To see how twi "evolved" under the watchful eye of Martinfail...is disturbing to say the least.
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Linda Z
Make the sign of the cross after every prayer. Pass around your copy of The Cult That Snapped. Ask lots of questions during the teaching. Ask if you can have some money from the horn of plenty beca
GrouchoMarxJr
Put an Alka Seltzer under your tongue at the beginning of fellowship...when somebody speaks in tongues...start growling and letting the foam run out of your mouth...
GrouchoMarxJr
Honestly...I read these things and shake my head... I came from the era when people didn't get kicked out of the ministry...This whole nazi, police state mentality, lets control their lives crap was
Belle
I don't think it's much different Mr. H. I haven't even been out a year and what it took for me was:
1. asking too many questions about doctrinal issues
2. asking for how to practically apply the debt issue and to continue asking when they wouldn't give me an answer
3. sharing these frustrations with others still "in"
4. being accused of posting on GSpot
5. wanting to have children AND keep working since we couldn't afford them otherwise
6. confronting leadership when they were wrong or inconsistent
7. Never mentioned, but I think also having an excellent relationship with my BAPTIST, non-TWI family.
Today in TWI you can have a mortgage, but you are pushed to the outside ring of "insiders" and not allowed to be a HFC, WD, WC or wear your AC nametag because you no longer have that status. You also can't attend the AC special. I'll bet that those who have bought houses are also financing cars and not mentioning that. Why bother? You're already "weak" in their eyes for not "believing God" to meet your need.
If you question leadership, doctrine or express doubt or lack of support for TWIt leadership you will be very kindly shown the door. Individualism and Questions are not allowed. Just write them down on a sheet of paper and we'll answer them when the lights go out.
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outandabout
Fall asleep during the teaching.
I saw a little kid get dragged out and screamed at for that.
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ex70sHouston
I was guilty of that on several occasions. The branch coordinator did a little talking but there was no throwing out
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lindyhopper
Here is a good one. I was almost thrown out after getting mugged and not telling my area coordinator about it.
Thankfully
--> I was given my "last chance" after making up some sh!t about how I was going to be a better man O God.
If I hadn't left on my own, I seemed dangerously close to getting tossed out for hanging out with my unbelieving friends a little too much.
Boy, I sure miss those bastards. Or not.
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outandabout
Ask A LOT of questions:
"Why is Donna still at HQ?"
"Where does all the money go?"
"What happened with all the lawsuits?"
"Can you buy houses now?"
"Can you have pets now?"
"Do you still hit kids with wooden spoons?"
"Can you teach fellowships from the Bible and not from the Way Rag?"
"Can I go to the grocery store alone now?"
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Ham
How about.. go on vacation- spend time with family on thanksgiving.
Casually ask if Donnie and Rosie are still "an item".
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Ham
"You've been on the internet!!!!!" "Nooooooo.."
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peahead
The Way is always going to do well in terms of money and supporters no matter what any one says about them even when it is the truth.
Religions survive, and radio talk shows continue to grow, because they offer people the option of relinquishing their God given right of independent thought.
The price is good 10 or 15 percent of you time and/or money.
Religion and gov’t are the most in demand services on the planet. I personally think the worst of them all is the Christian religion precisely because of all the splinter groups like the Way.
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outandabout
But TWI has a website and then there was that short lived attempt at that forum thing.
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GeorgeStGeorge
In my case, it was generally the ability to think logically. Interestingly, the "final straw" was my leading songs (FROM THE SONGBOOK) that others in the Twig didn't know. I was trying to add a little variety, but I was labeled "arrogant."
George
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Steve!
How to get thrown out of "twig":
1. Have a brain.
2. Use it.
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Ham
Steve, I don't think they wait that long. Any look in your eye that some lights are going off, and you're done.
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johniam
I used to read this comic called the fabulous furry freak bros. about 3 60s/70s style hippie dopers. One time they tried to go into Disneyland. Before they could go in, this man called the 'attitude inspector' looked intently into each of their eyes for a few seconds. Then he let 2 of them go in, but said the 3rd couldn't go in because he had a bad attitude. Sounds like TWI now uses this method.
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Ham
Some people around here got thrown out because, they were just, really NICE. Goodhearted. I am only somewhat nice. Took them a little longer to notice me.
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Ham
"Attitude inspectors" heh heh. I used to read those too. They decided to publish all of the old FFFB comics in a book form. Can be found on da web..
Boy, I think that's correct. A lot of the corpses sent here were kind of like that. But usually it wasn't attitude they looked at first.. first came the mouth inspection. Candidates had to be not only able to be "happy", but have a happy smile as well..
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Ham
George, some on my list were not REAL widespread- I think some were usually something they sprung on somebody that they had already determined that they wanted to get rid of.
"so and so has proven to have a problem with humility and obedience. He/she refuses to quit his job and find more suitable employment so as to be available at all times for da household.." This may sound ridiculous, but not far off from some of the explanations I have heard why somebody was not welcome anymore.
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peahead
Have a brain and use it. I like that...maybee take a brain and warp it also..That is what you do if you want to be a way leader Key words discribing Way leaders being "Want to be"
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learning
That was SO true! Does anyone else remember this being used as an example of going "two by two" for safety and to share the word?
And then they would tell us we don't live seperately becuase we have to be in the world not retreat from it. Yet, we cannot hang out with the world. That would be devilish
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Jim
Decline to go door-to-door witnessing.
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JustThinking
THE #1 WAY TO GET KICKED OUT:
STOP GIVING MONEY!!!!!!!
ALL ELSE CAN AND WILL BE FORGIVEN IF YOU GIVE ENOUGH.
JT
(No, my caps lock was not on)
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Linda Z
Make the sign of the cross after every prayer.
Pass around your copy of The Cult That Snapped.
Ask lots of questions during the teaching.
Ask if you can have some money from the horn of plenty because "I'm a little short this week."
Volunteer to lead a song, and make it one by the Rolling Stones.
Answer every rhetorical question posed during the teaching--with the wrong answer.
Ask if your fellowship can go to New Knoxville and take a dip in Rosalie's pool.
I think any one of these would work.
:D-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
Put an Alka Seltzer under your tongue at the beginning of fellowship...when somebody speaks in tongues...start growling and letting the foam run out of your mouth...
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GeorgeStGeorge
Actually, I was hard-hearted because I wouldn't sell my house (which I owned free and clear, of course) to move closer to my TC (and 40 miles further from work). Of course, my TC wound up moving shortly thereafter -- to be closer to his work!
-->
George
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GrouchoMarxJr
Honestly...I read these things and shake my head...
I came from the era when people didn't get kicked out of the ministry...This whole nazi, police state mentality, lets control their lives crap was all Martindale...Wierwille put the hammer down on people in the corps...but never "Joe believer" at home going to twig...
We used to have regular twig members who NEVER abundantly shared, only came to twig when they felt like it, never went to any "big meetings", questioned leadership constantly, smoked dope DURING twig fellowship, were in debt up to their arses, and had more personal problems than a toilet cleaner at a bean factory in Tiajuana...The teaching at the time was that we were to "love the unlovable" and that you ALWAYS welcomed people back into the fellowship...in order for somebody to be kicked out, they had to have stolen the ABS money, beat up the twig leaders wife and burned down the limb home...
To see how twi "evolved" under the watchful eye of Martinfail...is disturbing to say the least.
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