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Hi ProbablyAnAtheist, I doubt if anything I’d say could be relevant to you now since I got involved with TWI some 46 years ago (1974) - except for some similar aspects you described in your relationship…I was raised Roman Catholic, by late teens, no longer practicing, I met a young girl who was in TWI, we dated for a while, I got much more involved than she did, some 12 years later (1986) started to realize how corrupt it was (as you alluded to) and left, began reevaluating stuff, joined Grease Spot in 2006 – which expanded my horizons on a lot of things…yada yada yada…and now I think I’m a Christian agnostic (I know - I yada yadad over the best part – I should have mentioned the bisque ). Since I left some 34 years ago - I cannot speak to whether or not TWI has gotten better. You might want to do some more reading on Grease Spot that might be more up to date. Look in About the Way forum – Skyrider, WordWolf, Penworks, Rocky and a few others have some very informative threads – that get into the moral corruption, convoluted theology (a weird mix of fundamentalism, spiritualism, Gnosticism, know-it-all-ism… oh and plagiarism ), and the cultic mindset of TWI. Besides looking at the titles of the threads, you can also use the search engine at the top right of the page. Sometimes - on long threads or older threads - it might be helpful to click on the last few pages of a thread to read the input of folks who left TWI more recently…If you’re feeling a little froggy you might ask the TWI person you're dating some pointed questions – but that’s up to you. Getting back to your situation – I should at least say a few things as I reflect on my experience and how it may relate to yours. When I first met the girl who introduced me to TWI – I was already in a “searching mode” to try and figure out the big questions of life – color me naïve/a visual artist/musician really into the counterculture of the times. Back then the Catholic Mass was mostly in Latin and I rarely cracked open the Bible anyway. So anyone promising to make the Bible easy to understand and answer the big questions of life sounded pretty good to me. So, contrary to your situation – mine was focused on checking out this Bible-has-everything-you-need-to-know-about-life group. I was not really interested in developing a relationship with anyone at that time. Although I will add later on I went into TWI’s missionary program (W.O.W.) and where I met my future wife; we married, eventually went into TWI’s leadership training program (the way corps) – and from our mutual experiences of 12 years in TWI, we both came to the same conclusion - TWI was really fvcked up. We’re still together after 44 years and I will say this – in my opinion relationships based on simple things like love, respect, honesty, acceptance, etc. (and some common interests wouldn’t hurt either ) will fare a lot better than a relationship based on one’s acceptance of TWI doctrine. Again I don’t know how long term relationships fare in TWI nowadays – but back when I was in, the social dynamics of the group were mostly detrimental to natural, honest relationships whether family or friends…some family members became estranged, some couples divorced, some friendships were broken, some social ties were severed – often because the common denominator was that one party made TWI the MOST IMPORTANT thing. I don’t know if that last point (accepting TWI doctrine as the basis for a relationship) is a deal-breaker to either you or the TWI person. If so – I don’t know what else to say – except maybe ask if either one of you is willing to compromise…and I also wonder if you anticipate any pressure or flak from the parents who are higher up in TWI – since you don't seem to be onboard with their ideology. Good luck

Mornin' y'all, I was born into this ministry about 21 years ago to two Way Corps(e? lol) ministers who worked at HQ from I don't know when to 2013. That means- yes, your logical inferences are correct- I had to spend my entire childhood living in f*cking New Knoxville, OH. There were, I think, only two other kids my age who were born in '98 and stayed through '13; certainly there were none whose parents were fired in '13. So I'm sure whatever poor guy they've got monitoring this has already deductively identified me- but I don't care, I've already put my name to a review on Google Maps. 2 stars, I have only good memories of the food, especially that dope foot split pea soup. To give you an idea of the enduring psychological pain I've got, just writing that opener means my arms have started shaking and my mind has sorta gone blank. The shrink at my college told me I've got PTSD, though she was a PHD student so that's no official diagnosis. In the few years I've been out, I've managed to forget a lot, but I see that y'all are curious for what goes on past 2000, and I think it'll be a good exercise for me to try and remember. So any questions you've got about HQ, or even through R&R- my parents still keep up with that- I'm right here. I'll just use the rest of this post to detail the circumstances of our leaving, since I think they're pretty emblematic of the, uh, dank authoritarian vibes leadership has kept up past the Martindale era. In the 2011-2012 school year I was in eighth grade and I developed this illness which was pretty bad- kept me out of school almost every day in April of that year. My attendance freshman year was even worse; I think I missed close to 1/3 of all school days. What was this illness, you ask? The main symptom was very intense physical stomach pain- which doctors couldn't explain after 2 endoscopes and a colonoscopy. My personal theory is that it was literally a physical incarnation of the stress I was under, since it sort of magically disappeared about 6 months after my family left NK. Correlation =/= causation and all that, but whatever. So anyway, I go into sophomore year and rack up like 7 absences in 3 weeks and NKHS tells my parents look, ya kid is a straight-A student who easily passes his tests without attending class but we just can't do this relationship anymore because we're unwilling to bend our absence policy. So I'm politely shown the door to this alternative online high school. That's all it took, folks. See, Rivenbark apparently does not believe that online school is a place that good Way Corps should send their kids. So two weeks after my parents make this decision, she gets Phil to summarily fire them from their severely underpaid HQ jobs. (Thank god, maybe they still have time to save for retirement.) Then about a year later, they're booted from the core. It was my dream to be a Way Corps member through 9th grade, guys I was 100% sold. Now I flinch when I hear church music- I heard Rise and Shine a couple months ago and had a full-on mental breakdown. My parents have gone from making me speak in tongues to pleading with me to not give up on God. My honest response to that is that whatever God I believed in in childhood is 6 feet under, the new meme is judging people based on their actions and words instead of automatically hating gay people. I think I love them too much to ever say that, especially since sometimes I think otherwise about the first part. Anyway, thanks for reading, peace.

Hi all! Wow what a trip this is here. I was marked and avoided in 1995. How many people get to say they were shunned? I became involved in 84 Little Rock AFB Ar. Was a WOW Amb and advance class survivor. They started to get a bug up their butts when I decided all the dead end jobs were dead end and wanted to go to college. The twisted justification on the Ways part was how dare I rely on education and advancement to supply my needs. Also Martindale was becoming a person who seemed far from Christ like. There was already strike one from moving to go to school.My questioning the crap coming out of Loys mouth got me the mark and avoid. How dare I question.

Welcome to GSC, PAA. The love the Way showed to me was the linchpin that convinced me I had found nirvana. I was going through a very rough time in my life, when a complete stranger sat next to me at a cafe, and began talking to me. He was very kind and understanding to me. He invited me to a fellowship at his home, but Christmas break was just beginning at college, and I told him I would be going home for a month. He assured me he would contact me after the holidays were over, which he did. All (twig leafs, not sure that is the lingo today,) were very loving to me, and without a doubt, pulled me from the dark place I was in. Of course, that alone hooked me, and it was “full speed ahead,” from then on. I was willing to take all the classes they offered and joined all the programs they asked me to. However, as time goes on, you are expected to no longer think for yourself, and especially not ask for any “clarification” of anything they teach. The Way International believes they have “the word of God, like it has never been taught since the first century.” They may not state it those exact words today, but believe God gave Victor Wierwille the “right dividing of the word of God.” VPWs interpretation is the only valid understanding of God’s word. That is why they will not allow anyone to question their teachings. They talk about how the corruption had been cleaned up, but let me assure you, if anyone questioned the corruption as it was going on, they were “marked and avoided”, which means they were shunned. There is absolutely no room in the way to question a belief, or question the actions of any leader. If you do, you will be kicked out, as dissention is unacceptable at any and all levels of Way leadership. It does seem out of place that your love interest is discussing marriage and children with you, at this stage of your indoctrination into the Way. It maybe they have stooped to that level deception. Or, unless, as someone else suggested, she is planning an escape herself. If that is the case, you will be very important to her mentally and emotionally, as the guilt she will bear, will be overwhelming. Welcome to the GSC, and know you have everyones understanding.

Hey, an acknowledgment that all was not well. It still is not well; "cleaning it up and it's way better now" sounds like denial of what's happened and happening. There's a lot of crises going on at the moment. Perhaps you and Friend can volunteer at a local Foodbank, or pandemic helpcentre, or join a neighbourhood help group to assist the housebound, those who aren't allowed out, those who don't have money, etc. Offer to help at some local church in its outreach to these groups. Yes - volunteer. At something that is not a TWI-event. What does Friend think about that? Ask what Friend's parents are doing to help their community - you don't say if they live in the same area and I sense they may live at HQ or close to it. (If you live near each other, maybe you can ask them to join you at the Foodbank/debt counselling center/collection of prescriptions etc etc. I can see that going down well, LOL.) Ask what TWI is doing to help others. Choose your crisis. What - and where - are they doing things to help alleviate suffering from that crisis? If the answer is still "We teach people The Word," well, you know that words and actions that don't match are not Godly. It's all talk, talk, talk. No walk, walk, walk. I can only say that my tiny church puts its actions where its mouth is. Food parcels for those with too little money to look after themselves and their families; cooking meals to deliver to housebound; visiting; finding clothes or blankets or furniture; caring phone calls to those who can't be visited; comforting the bereaved and "being there" for those who are developing mental health issues - and so on - for those who have little else in their lives and nowhere to turn to. Individuals help as wider community volunteers, at refuges, foodbanks, marshalling at mass vaccination centers, all sorts. And all where we're in lockdown and not allowed to visit unless essential and we have to keep 6 or 8 feet apart. Nobody tries "preaching the gospel," quoting Bible verses, or urging to come to church; but actions have won people and the church is growing! The church is busier than ever - and normal activities continue as best as possible, with Zoom church, Zoom kids' club, Zoom youth club, Zoom coffee mornings, etc etc. Now. What is TWI doing? What are Friend's parents doing? What is HQ doing?

You know, Allan, that any "good stuff" that they taught, was because it was pinched from genuine God-loving Christians. Besides that, VPW had "itching ears" and grabbed other bits and pieces from get-rich-quick merchants, and from "spiritualists" and mediums. All jumbled up together to become their version of Christianity. And whatever TWI teaches, whether originally Godly or not, is corrupted by filthy and abusive practices.

Before I forget, you can't really understand twi without trying to understand vpw. (there's several threads about him, this is a severe abbreviation.) Victor Paul Wierwille was a narcissist and sociopath who concluded that ministry was a relatively soft life compared to his other options, that also got you respect. He worked with a local Christian magazine, and probably plagiarized their contents for his Sunday sermons. About a year into his work as a pastor, he FIRST believed the Bible was the Word of God- according to him. Over the next few decades, he had lukewarm success, except when he plagiarized. Someone recommended EW Bullinger's books to him, and he bought them all and began teaching as if he independently came to the same conclusions as Bullinger. He met JE Stiles, who led him into the modern practice called "speaking in tongues" (as practiced by twi and all its splinters/offshoots to this day.) He bought Stiles' book and retyped it, claiming he wrote it. He took BG Leonard's class on the Hoiy Spirit ("Gifts of the Spirit") and then began teaching it as his own class, "Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" (later "Power For Abundant Living", divided into 3 classes and supplemented with Bullinger and Stiles to fill them out.) When he read that there were counter-establishment Christian hippies in California, he went there.(1969-1971.) He meant to hijack them all into his group if he could, and to try to get some of the "free-love" that hippies were supposedly into. (He also tried to convince J1m D00p that God Almighty was alright with ORGIES.) He managed to convince some of them that he had a special connection to God and that's why he knew everything "he taught" (that Bullinger, Stiles and Leonard taught.) Shortly after that, he began to tell the story that in 1943 God Almighty made a special promise to him that God would teach him if he'd teach others. (The exact claim is in other threads that have discussed it.) He also added that God confirmed this promise with a miraculous snowstorm. He got a legitimate Masters in Theology from Princeton Theological Seminary. He then went on to get a "Doctorate" from an unaccredited degree mill. twi's growth in numbers can be traced ENTIRELY to the influx of Christian hippies who were legit Christians and recruited people to twi. vpw gradually added all sorts of adulation for himself- insisting everyone call him "Doctor", teaching that you stand when a teacher approaches the pulpit/podium to teach, having them play "Hail to the Chief" when he entered the room, having twi buy a plane and calling it "Ambassador One" (a la "Air Force One"), and so on. Many pages have been written on him. vpw taught that positive believing (faith) brought positive results, and negative believing (doubt, worry, fear) brought negative results, regardless of the content of the belief. He also taught that cancer, having a life of its own, was devil-spirit (demon) based in origin. Guess who died of cancer in 1985? Yes, the man who put forth that he was some sort of Super-Believer, who failed to blast away the cancer cells with his Believing-Vision! vpw had personally selected loy craig martindale (lcm) as his successor, despite others being more qualified in one or MANY ways. The sole reason was that lcm was fanatically loyal to him and was convinced vpw's most conniving lies were really Revelation From God Almighty. Between 1985 and 1989, a number of things happened. vpw was increasingly ignored in his final weeks. He went to Scotland, to his other fanatically loyal drone, chris geer. After vpw died, cg confronted twi with "The Passing of the Patriarch", a 40-page paper that made no specifics whatsoever, but claimed that twi had problems, and they were ENTIRELY due to them ignoring vpw and in effect, killing him by making him sad. A number of lcm's peers started either to find out about rapes in twi either by vpw, lcm, both, or their cadre and spoke out, or decided they could run a religious group as well as lcm. For one or the other reason, there were more confrontations in twi, where a few groups split off from twi. In 1988-1989, lcm DEMANDED an Oath of Loyalty to himself, first from all the leadership, then the membership. Any answer other than blind obedience meant any leader was kicked out. This resulted in about 80% of the current leaders leaving, with about 80% of the current membership leaving WITH them. Some of them looked to geer for oversight, some didn't, but eventually, they all decided to do their own thing. Since then, there was ANOTHER drop in members when lcm was forced to step down from twi office by lawyers and stuff (the exact specifics are in sealed court documents as to who demanded it, a judge, or the lawyers for twi insisted on it) . Every once in a while, another handful of current leaders leaves twi and brings some of the current members with them. Right now, the actual numbers of twi membership is puny. There's perhaps as many as 3000 but possibly as few as a few HUNDRED now. Old members age out and are ignored once twi can no longer exploit them. (Thus, forming their own group as a golden parachute.) Every once in a while, a handful of the youngsters actually think they can REFORM twi. But twi was never good then turned bad- and it was designed to concentrate power autocratically. They think that EVERYBODY who tried before them were somehow deficient, but THEY will succeed. Ah, the optimism of youth.... There's relatively few people, who are soaked for a tithe. There's the existing assets, all organized to stay close to HQ. And there's an organization set up to charge members for everything they do- it's rather profitable in that sense, financially. The people at the top are enjoying all the perks while they can.

Oh wow guys I didn't expect such great responses! I also feel I should maybe clarify my username (ProbablyAnAtheist). I picked it just off the top of my head but now I'm realizing it could be seen as a sort of typical "angry atheist mocking Christians" sort of handle and I just want to say it is most definitely not. I've never really truly believed in God but I sometimes wish that I did. And indeed I try to behave as if I believed God to exist. The "meaning of it all" has always been a big fascination for me and I admire the way Christians are able to just believe so passionately that this is INDEED the way to live life correctly. I mean there is an abundance of great moral philosophy to be found in the Bible. I just never really connected with the idea of vicarious redemption through vicarious suffering of Jesus on the cross. It never made me feel any better or at peace or anything. Regardless, I try to live my life as best I can which probably means as close to the Ten Commandments as I can get. Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone was feeling disrespected by my username. That was most assuredly not the intent :) The situation I find myself currently involved in certainly seems sticky. This person I'm dating has been my friend for many years prior to this, after years of mutual pining after each other from afar. So I guess thank COVID for bringing us together as we quarantined. We're both in our early 30's. I believe they have taken the advanced class and gone to Camp Gunnison (I think thats what its called), and also hold their own fellowship at their apartment. I recently met the parents and I was little taken aback by all of the "wayspeak" and just sheer intensity of their lives. They are in their 60's and have been with the Way for decades. I asked them about some of the terrible events that some of you have been subjected to in the past by the Way and the parents basically said that yes, it was terrible, and that the Way was too tied up in only listening to one leader and that they've been cleaning it up and its way better now. I'm a little bit more of a skeptical person so I continue to research and listen to podcasts on VP Wierwille and Martindale. Crazy stuff! I've been streaming Sunday services and watching with my significant other. I just want to show support and let them know I'm not going to judge them. But the services haven't really been all that edifying to me. They all seem just like hour long "loyalty checks" to the ministry and very little on how to be a good human being for both yourself and the world around you. I sit there waiting for something that makes me feel inspired but all I seem to see is "make sure you do your abundant sharing" and "you just gotta believe a whole bunch!" I'm disappointed. This is a serious relationship for me. We've even talked marriage and children. So its definitely more than just a fling and thankfully not what Waysider was talking about (very sorry that happened to you!) This person is someone I have known for almost ten years, we've been all over the world together and I trust them. I just think they've been indoctrinated into something that may be nefarious in some ways. But they say that it brings them joy and peace and makes them want to be a better person. And they do indeed seem very bold and wonderful and happy. Meh I dunno. I hear all the horror stories of the past and wonder what the current climate is. I'm very much interested in learning about the parents since they've been through all of the time periods people on here discuss, and yet they have decided to stay for some reason. Again thank you all so much I'm trying to read as many threads as I can. Thank you for being so thorough and welcoming once again!

When I took "the class" nearly 50 years ago, it was a fairly common practice (unbeknownst to me at the time) to use "date and switch" to enroll new students in the class. After I was enrolled and pretty much hooked on the organization, I came to find out this person was actually romantically entangled with a leadership figure, while feigning personal interest in me. There are probably quite a few posters here that can tell you similar stories. I'm not saying this is the case in your situation. Ask yourself, though, what sort of organization would be so unscrupulous that they encourage their followers to recruit by methods involving romantic deception? And when I say "romantic deception", you can be sure I'm being generously euphemistic. Feel free to PM me if there's something I can help with.

What Outie said. Don't worry about going to a church other than the Catholic one. God wants people to love him, and that's across all denominations - or none. God didn't desire division and denominations. God doesn't even require you to attend church, though he does say it's good to assemble together from time to time. You may find any Way fellowship very pleasant, to begin with. Friendly people, and seem interested in you. But they will gently or not-so-gently pressure you into taking The Class or whatever they're calling it these days. ("Have you taken the class yet?" and "Oh, there's an answer to that question in the class, about session **.") The Class version they have now is not what most of the posters here will have taken - but that's not to say that the content and intent isn't the same. It presents a selective version of Christianity, and God, and there's no opportunity to ask questions during the (usually) taped/CD classes. If you were to start the Class then drop out, I can pretty much guarantee that your friend would take off and you would be shunned by everyone in the fellowship group. As your friend's parents are high-ups in TWI, then your friend was probably more or less raised in TWI and has some strange thinking patterns. Stay open to discussion with friend, but don't get sucked in to the organization. It could be that you are the only external person that your friend dare trust, if s/he's thinking of making a getaway. If that happens, be very patient. Friend will be in real culture shock. Collectively, we may know something about the parents (though our knowledge as a group is a bit dated). You are always welcome to come here and ask questions. If you think you see a bit of a red flag about some practice or doctrine, don't ignore it but come and ask. Most of us here wish we'd paid early attention to those red flags, and not shut our eyes and jumped down the rabbit hole. One more thing. Draw up a seat and have a cup of something and a bite to eat, before you start your adventures.

Stick around here and you can learn from people that have been in The Way and their experiences. Some good but also bad. Your romantic interest probably feels obligated to make you into a Wayfer in order to make your relationship acceptable to her friends and family. Otherwise, he or she will not want to commit themselves to you. Just my two cents. We Wayfers were always to to "put God first" which really meant put The Way first. Which means anyone or anything that interferes with total devotion to the "household" is not acceptable. Good luck. The best you can hope for is that he or she decides to defect. Could happen but likely not. This reminds me of when I was in The Way, i was in a relationship with a non-Way person. I wouldn't let myself commit to him because he wasn't in TWI. He would make one-liner comments that made a lot of sense. I regret now that I didn't leave then.

Stepping away from God’s protection was my biggest concern leaving the way. They are able to keep people by instilling fear if you leave your life will be over. I have been gone 25 years and it has only gotten better. The name of this web site is in reference to LCM always saying, if you left the protection of God’s ministry, you would be a grease spot my midnight. I wonder if LCM believed he would be a grease spot when he was booted out?

Hey @AC04Ohio! My husband and I both grew up in TWI and left 3 years ago at ages 26 and 28 when we became Christians. We were just talking about how thankful we are that we left TWI for actual Christianity, and that we’ve pursued stable careers in the tech industry. Welcome to the other side! The journey out can be a bit messy, so let us know if you need any support.

Welcome, AC04! Good for you, getting out of that organization and moving on so well with your life. A master's degree, great job, and own home, all sound absolutely great. Talking like a normal person in society is very good and perhaps you've lost the "trigger" words that set your mind back to TWI days (hard to overcome those trigger words). Still a good idea to give away a reasonable amount of your money - to places of your own choosing - a church or charity that you like, or a neighbor who is in need. And it is a very good idea to stay out of debt. Having said that, after worrying for a long time, I bought a house myself and worked hard at paying off the mortgage, making overpayments as permitted without penalties. I couldn't afford to rent my own home even when I first bought the house, and now that the mortgage is so tiny ... well, let's say, no regrets. I have the money to redeem in full in my bank account, could have paid it off a few years ago, but my interest rate is very low and the penalty for early repayment exceeds that. So. Draw up a chair, tell us what news you know. Have a cuppa and a slice of cake. Somebody might offer you stronger stuff than tea or coffee.

Welcome!! Keep browsing here. That’s how I got my family out. He was brought up from birth in TWI so old habits die hard. Just realize that you escaped the cult and now you can find what you like / love/ want without the pressure of having to put “the Ministry first”! Oh I know they say Gawd First but the ministry = God =ministry and all that. take it one day at a time. You’re in the right place - keep searching for peace!

actually after looking at actual footage of the BEHAVIOR of a number of the protesters especially the ones yelling and screaming IN THE FACES of people, including police officers and the 'building up' of boldness and aggressiveness when more and more protesters surround ONE individual that has pi$$ed them off...I believe it is a very pertinent question. As one who believes those same mob spirits that incited the crowd towards Jesus have not been taking an extended vacation in Key Largo or some such place, smoking 50 cent cigars and congratulating each other on a job well done 2000 years ago, I believe they are very much active at present.

I don't know a lot about the Way International as far as inner workings. I know what I've read and what I experienced as a child. I've lived with what happened since the early 80's. It happened between the ages of 7-10. I came here several years ago to tell my story and was immediately called a liar. Some did support me, but the experience traumatized me and I left the forums. I'm back because I can't believe more information does not exist. I know that at least one incident happened at Camp Gunnison, in one of the rooms with bunk beds. When I found the group on Facebook, I recognized one of the rooms and was especially triggered by a room with bunk beds. I remembered that room, and I remembered a hallway with a yellow light. I remember much more, of course, but I will not go into details. Suffice it to say that I believe I was sexually abused while there. I've been in counseling on and off for over twenty years. I started having flashbacks long before I ever got into counseling. The things that I remember are horrific, but I know there's much more below the surface. I'm not saying everything that happened to me happened there. In fact, I'm pretty sure quite a lot happened off site. My father was also a pedophile. Everything that happened could very well have happened independent of the group, after all, pedophiles are always looking for places that they can get access to children. I wouldn't have even written this if Lifted Up had not mentioned sexual abuse as children. It's been frustrating to not find other stories like mine, because I know they are out there. Other than the guy who kept "maidens" for himself rather recently (and this came out a few years after my first attempt to reach out here), I haven't seen anything, even though a research book contains a passage about the Way and allegations of child sexual abuse. So I'm rather at a loss. But thank you, Lifted Up, for speaking out. God bless.

Hi Ghosted, I just saw your post and want to respond even if kinda late... (I post here irregularly but read posts more often to keep me balanced in my own PTSD recovery from the way, among other things.) Wow, you have been through a lot, but I am very glad that you have some good support, and are able to put these unimaginable things into words so well. Yes, I too trigger when I hear certain songs, and just reading about your story sent me to the kitchen for some comforting hot tea and a break... The motherly side of me comes out when I hear of these very difficult things that we parents have unintentionally exposed our children to. I send heartfelt thoughts, wishes, prayers (take your pick) for your recovery. My own daughter had attendance problems due to stomach issues in 7th grade (my h and I had left the way in Indiana in '88, but I had "trained my children in the way they should go" very stridently so that they would not have to go thru all of the childhood trauma or hippie years I went thru; when things started to fall apart in those early years, my h and I ended up divorcing; was extremely hard on my daughter and all of us) After being dismissed from public school, my daughter had a really tough time in several not-good schools. She still has some struggles these 7 years later, but has some good counseling (EMDR is helping her alot with PTSD if you want to explore something like that) and is doing much better. Anyway, thank you for sharing your story here, and for offering your perspective on what has happened recently at HQ! The very best to you! (Sending a virtual emoticon with a raised glass to celebrate YOU!)

I had a very pleasant splinter group experience and have very little negative to say about it. (It was Vince Finnegan's group) But as I am no longer a believer, I'll just leave it at that.

Thank you Volchic for sharing your story. Sorry late to the thread. I'm normally only on here lately to fix the site when it breaks or, as tonight, to apply a security upgrade to keep it from breaking. Happened to see this thread. Hit a bit close to home. Started with The Way about the same time and age. Left when Craig got caught with his d*ck out but didn't handle it well and marriage didn't survive. Nice to see you were able to do better than I. It is much better being in control of your own life. The Way only took. Took our time, our money, our energy, our family relationships, our self-control. They gave nothing in return. I see they splintered again. Not surprising. I recognized and know most of the names you mentioned. Only thing splinters are good for is giving people an excuse to leave. Glad you took it. Welcome.

I decided that what good things the Way contributed to in my life had to be re-evaluated. When I was sexually assaulted in the name of the "love of God" all things, good and bad, had to be reviewed because the good, whatever there might have been, was used to hurt. Intent doesn't matter. Like one thing I participated in, using believing to degrade and belittle others, the most obvious example being chastising people for not believing...and therefore not being faithful to God...because they had incurred some illness, in many cases things as minor as mild sniffles. Anyway, I know I am far from alone in having to associate big hurts with what was presumably God's Love being taught, and ex-Way people are not alone: I have come across some in my male survivor support group who have somewhat the same problem, being sexually abused in church, often as children. Therefore, I am re-learning God with the help of my sexual assault counselor and faith based support. Of course this wipes out the ,myth of the Way being the only place God could be really taught. I think I have covered this before on posts elsewhere, but briefly, the teachnig by VPW that leaders (such as corps men) were entitled to have their sexual needs fulfilled (for the good of the ministry) was the reason why I was sexually assaulted by two women. Easy to understand, especially after reading Charlene Edge's account (in "Undertow") of how she discovered that even VPW had women around who went along with his sexual "doctrine". Maybe a little irony in how I am now learning abut our Real God, and considering forgiveness, even as I have recieved recent indications that my main assaulter still doesn't think she could have hurt me. Men, in the Way and in the world, are often perceived as sex starved animals who cannot be hurt by sex and so my "loosening up" (I overheard clearly that term being used specifically about me i the event) and it still was just "playing around" to her. I think I can extend forgiveness because I have learned from my counselor and others what it is, and more importantly what it is NOT. I just wonder if it can be accepted. But I understand also it is for ME, not them.

You sound bitter, Grace. Say three Hail Dorothies, two Our Rhodas and go to concession before next service. While at concession, pick me up a beer.

Hi Volchic! Welcome to the Spot! And, thank for sharing some of your story. I agree with you, that “working out” some of the confusing and cognitively dissonant experiences in your years with TWIt is important. The old adage, “If we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.”, aptly applies here. I think as time goes by, and you take your time here to gather info, make new acquaintances, and, most importantly, continue to dialogue with the other members here about your experiences, thoughts, emotions, and psychosocial interactions during your time in TWIt, in order to effectively sort through “the good, the bad, and the ugly” of your TWIt year, will be an important beginning in your full understanding of what TWIt was, and how it affected you. Doing so will relieve any anxiety, embarrassment, guilt, or shame, which may accompany your self-reflection and your journey of self-identity. At the very least, I think GSC will provide a great launching point for your objective inquiry into the whys and whats of your involvement with a destructive, fundamentalist “Christian” cult. The very first step is overcoming that twinge of discomfort that often hits when confronting the denial which usually comes with the realization that the words, “The Way” and “a religious cult” are synonymous. I’m sure you will find the compassionate support and understanding so freely offered here among those of us who have made and are making the same journey you are. I bid you Godspeed in your exciting, self-determined new journey!

There have been a few threads in the About the Way forum about the Revival and Restoration thing. I linked to one of the threads above (in Red) when you mentioned it. I applaud you for being open and available in your Dad's last days. I'm sure it meant a lot to him. Being a grandfather now, I can safely say that it must have provided him with great joy and comfort to have gotten to be with your children when they were very young. Your descriptions of events certainly fit with what we've known. Please don't feel like you need to apologize for how you say things or what you say about your experiences in TWI. I'm also confident you will find a lot of validation here if you share more of what you went through.