Yea - go hang out with "your fruit," your "babes."
Sheeesh!
Yeah......even during a 10-minute break, the grad was told to "watch over" your fruit.
Just wasn't enough to let them air their brain cells and all.......had to keep pumping in twi's doctrine. No space was given to allow questions to fester.
Yeah......even during a 10-minute break, the grad was told to "watch over" your fruit.
Just wasn't enough to let them air their brain cells and all.......had to keep pumping in twi's doctrine. No space was given to allow questions to fester.
<_<
There was barely enough time to go to the bathroom and get my buns to wake up from those hard, cold metal chairs...
With all the questions being thrown out by a few people here, its as if they are trying to trick, trap and denigrate God's kids here just like the Pharisees did.
What profit are these endless questions, constantly asked over and over by a few certain people here which are only designed to bait and trap, which are designed for a "gotcha" moment?
Why do some people here feel they must denigrate and make God's children look like fools?
Why do they feel they must war against God's children?
Maybe you should do a little research on foolish questions and see what the Bible has to say about them.
For some who profess to know God and his Word and have all the answers via PFAL, TWI and VP, you come off as unbelieveably ignorant and as babes needing milk.
There are some great books on Amazon, especially one on the History of Christian Thought, by Paul Tillich, whom VP liked a lot - its a VP approved author. Maybe do a little reading and get some eduction from a source outside of TWI.
Quite straining at gnats and going round and round and round and round and putting words and ideas (so, are you saying...) in people's posts that they did not say.
With all the questions being thrown out by a few people here, its as if they are trying to trick, trap and denigrate God's kids here just like the Pharisees did.
What profit are these endless questions, constantly asked over and over by a few certain people here which are only designed to bait and trap, which are designed for a "gotcha" moment?
Why do some people here feel they must denigrate and make God's children look like fools?
Why do they feel they must war against God's children?
Maybe you should do a little research on foolish questions and see what the Bible has to say about them.
For some who profess to know God and his Word and have all the answers via PFAL, TWI and VP, you come off as unbelieveably ignorant and as babes needing milk.
There are some great books on Amazon, especially one on the History of Christian Thought, by Paul Tillich, whom VP liked a lot - its a VP approved author. Maybe do a little reading and get some eduction from a source outside of TWI.
Quite straining at gnats and going round and round and round and round and putting words and ideas (so, are you saying...) in people's posts that they did not say.
Or are people really just this obtuse?
Actually, it's Friday night and everyone is on drugs..."obtuse drugs"!, OK
Ladies and gentle peoples. Me thinks presentation tis the problem. Be it known to all PFAL grads I am resorting to a semi-PFAL/TWI format for the remainder of this post in an attempt to confuse the unconfusable, refuse the unrefusable, and to use the unusable.
Welcome to the first session of Power for Overcoming the Power of the Power for Abundant Living Class. First of all, I would like to thank Pawtucket and the board of Grease Spotters for making it possible for me to share my heart on this post in this day and time and hour and format.
In this first session of Power for Overcoming the Power of the Power for Abundant Living Class I am going to show you one of the keys for overcoming the power of the PFAL class. I'm not going to show you all the keys – that is not the purpose of this post.
Have you ever wondered what is the greatest power available to the human mind? You ask the average PFAL grad in your community and you'll more than likely hear something about the law of believing.
[T-Bone stands up and walks over to a statuette of Elvis…licks lips…acts real natural] You know…after I first took the PFAL class I thought that was true. For years my wife and I were in TWI doing the things were thought would get the desired results. But somehow we lacked the intelligence…the reasoning…good ol' common sense if you please, to realize we were spinning our wheels.
Then one day a miracle happened. [pauses for effect] It had been a little while after I left TWI and was mulling over this problem – when it happened. It was an audible voice – as clear and distinct as if you were reading the words of this sentence out loud, right now [cue for the person running the class to lead every Grease Spotter into reading the last sentence out loud]. "Maybe this law of believing is a bunch of baloney." There…I said it! And when I opened my eyes, there was a baloney sandwich and Tea sitting in front of me. Tonto is so sweet - she had made that for me the night before…I was so busy thinking about this problem that I forgot to eat. And what color do you think the napkin was? White? Oh no it wasn't! It was fire engine red! We've been using leftover napkins from a Ho Ho Relo party.
As I ate my baloney sandwich and tea [sometimes when I'm very hungry I'll order a pack of gum] – I figured out that the greatest asset I have is the power to think. And the greatest secret at Way World today is that you can't go beyond what you're taught.
Well we disagree ,but then I don't have an axe to grind with PFAL mindset either. I don't see PFAL as a part of it at all. I see no scriptural support for it, that is different. PFAL getting something wrong and the Bible getting something wrong are two entirely different things.
Yes there are references to prayer to the LORD. That does not mean it is the same person,there are several Mikes here at GreaseSpot we are not the same person just because we have the same name. One would have to look at the usage of lord , note in the passage below that you offered the two lords...
...Your choice how you choose to act, but it does not follow even the logical pattern of human communication Do you when you want to ask your boss a question walk into the room full of people and just ask amiss and let them sort it out or do you go to the person that you wish to find the answer from? If you are asking your friend for a ride do you also just walk into a room and say hey Joe can you give me a ride and let everyone there sort it out or do you walk up to Joe and ask him? It amazes me that people follow logical communication patters in life and yet when it comes to communicating with God they leave all those behind and dream up a new plan on how they think it should work.
The point of my referencing the passages was to show instances of calling on the name of the Lord – i.e. prayer – are applied to both…You still are confused on Trinitarian doctrine – I'm not saying God the Father and Jesus the Son are the SAME person. It does appear to be some overlapping roles, one facilitating the other…I don't know…I'm not God…I don't pretend to have the inside scoop on how God works.
I am amused at the nitpicking arguments you throw out. Not worth my time to respond. Except for this one point here – because it really exemplifies the PFAL-mindset. The John 14 passage I referred to, doesn't give any details on how this communion occurs. If you're so adamant on specificity you ought to find a passage that indicates the standard communication format God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit uses.
While I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of trinitarian vs. unitarian theology, but many unitarians, either through ignorance or obstinance don't understand that trinitarians don't see The Father and The Son (or for that matter, the Holy Spirit) as identical, but as different personas, or aspects of one God. Many (not all) of the arguments that unitarians use focus on differences between The Father and The Son, assuming that it translates into a difference between God and Jesus.
While I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of trinitarian vs. unitarian theology, but many unitarians, either through ignorance or obstinance don't understand that trinitarians don't see The Father and The Son (or for that matter, the Holy Spirit) as identical, but as different personas, or aspects of one God. Many (not all) of the arguments that unitarians use focus on differences between The Father and The Son, assuming that it translates into a difference between God and Jesus.
I remember very well how VPW in JCING (no, I don't have the book and havent for over 27 years) referred to the definition of the Trinity as "...the father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and together, not exclusively, they form one God...that defines the doctrine of the trinity, and this I d not believe the Bible teaches."
What has always been interesting to me are all the references to the relationship between Jesus and God...as opposed to the relationship between Jesus and the Father. Jesus sitting on the right hand of God, praying to God...
One "incident" that will always remain in my mind is the time I heard taught, regarding "I and my father are One" as, "it doesn't mean that Jesus was God because jesus prayed to God". Someone here well versed in the Trinity, whether they believe it or not, can surely come up with an explanation of how Trinitarians don't see the verse that way. or how the dont see Jesus praying to God as a sign that Jesus is not God. After all, it's only faulty TWI logic...
Not quite. That explanation came...out of the blue...from the senior pastor of the United Methodist Church I was attending here for a while in the early 1980s (after my TWI time). It came during a church membership class, in a group of about ten. Never before or after did I hear anything from him about the issue, and i didnt press him on it. This senior pastor had been the chief pastor at the church for many years, and was nearing retirement.
Of course the idea of Jesus Christ not being God, among Christians, did not originate with VPW or JCING or TWI. When I forst became involved in TWI and hear about the teaching and the book, my reaction was like. so what's the big deal?
Golly gee, I apologize for being remiss – all your questions are very important! I've got my top researcher handling them right now – even as we speak.
While intense research is being conducted, everyone have a great Labor Day weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
quote: There are going to be people who thought they knew him who will be told to depart....pure and simple...there are going to be people whom are of the flesh whom will have no inheritance in the kingdom of God....
There will be those who are of the spirit and will recieve an inheritance and ever lasting life...
God tells us clearly how to tell one from the other...where is the butchery?
You're referring to Matt 7:23 or Matt 25:41. This was before the day of Pentecost. Jesus Himself didn't know the mystery, that Jews and Gentiles would become one body of Christ. Jesus didn't yet know that He would have to die; He didn't find that out until John 13. The people who were going to have to depart, according to the standard as if Israel had accepted Jesus as the Christ, were the Pharisees, some of whom were born of the wrong seed. But Israel did not accept Him. That standard never got to be applied. God had to go to plan B.
Galatians 5 is wriitten to the church of the body, those born again of incorruptible seed. We have Christ in us. That's not an illusion, it's reality. We have God's nature within us. Did we do anything to deserve it? No. We're the same human schmucks that people were before Pentecost, but because of God's grace and the finished work of Jesus the Christ, we are privileged to have access to God's throne room, the oval office in the sky, baby!
WW says he doesn't know exactly what Galatians 5:21 means. I do. Compare with 1 Corinthians 3:11-17. We all have flesh and we all have holy spirit. Some of our works are gold, silver, and precious stones; some of our works are wood, hay, or stubble. The former gets you an inheritance; the latter does not. To "not have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God doesn't mean you lose eternal life, it means no reward for the bad works.
You're guaranteed life everlasting. The "butchery" is trying to apply law administration standards to the grace administration. It doesn't fit. The only way anyone would qualify for the kingdom of God that way is to be perfect. You don't have to believe this if you don't want to, but I believe it. If VP really did what he's accused of here, then it will definitely affect his inheritance, but he did good too. Do you really believe he wasn't even a Christian? Remember session 7? "Have you accepted Christ? Do you believe God raised him from the dead? Have you?" That was powerful. Why would a devil do that?
Doesn't make sense unless you allow that a Christian has 2 natures to juggle.
Your posts have a pattern of questions after questions. IMO, at times, you phrase the question in such a way as to denigrate the poster.....NOT to really add to the discussion.
If you didn't notice, I was "messing" with you......to show you how easy it is to DOMINATE a conversation by asking question after question and getting the poster "back on his heels." It's one effective way to CONTROL THE FLOW of the conversation by using well-placed questions. Heck, twi taught us corps this stuff in one of the christian communication classes.
But hey, Larry.....if you want to stay in the "question mode" aspect in these discussions, go for it. Sometimes rhetorical questions, like Jesus used, are a very good quality to allow the person to think and reflect......and honest, open questions are welcomed in most any discussion.
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Mark Clarke
I still believe those few things, with one qualification. We were taught we didn't go to heaven "right away" as you put it. But they were rather vague about what happens in the end. I believe we do
Catcup
Since leaving TWI, I have kind of devolved back almost to where my beliefs were just before getting into TWI. Although in my family we were raised Southern Baptist, we never believed Jesus was God.
GrouchoMarxJr
Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not
excathedra
do you have a recipe ? big ;)
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Bumpy
Can Bumpy "pet" the females....Please!!
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excathedra
i don't know..... are you a fruit ????
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doojable
I think we all just have to roll our own.
(I know - I'm evil!)
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excathedra
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skyrider
Yeah......even during a 10-minute break, the grad was told to "watch over" your fruit.
Just wasn't enough to let them air their brain cells and all.......had to keep pumping in twi's doctrine. No space was given to allow questions to fester.
<_<
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doojable
There was barely enough time to go to the bathroom and get my buns to wake up from those hard, cold metal chairs...
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excathedra
i'm getting a headache thinking about faking enthusiasm when i was just trying to stay awake
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Ham
Sitting on tacks helped.. the looking "excited" part, that is..
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Bumpy
~Ex~ Nobody here mentioned...S E X
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excathedra
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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Sunesis
With all the questions being thrown out by a few people here, its as if they are trying to trick, trap and denigrate God's kids here just like the Pharisees did.
What profit are these endless questions, constantly asked over and over by a few certain people here which are only designed to bait and trap, which are designed for a "gotcha" moment?
Why do some people here feel they must denigrate and make God's children look like fools?
Why do they feel they must war against God's children?
Maybe you should do a little research on foolish questions and see what the Bible has to say about them.
For some who profess to know God and his Word and have all the answers via PFAL, TWI and VP, you come off as unbelieveably ignorant and as babes needing milk.
There are some great books on Amazon, especially one on the History of Christian Thought, by Paul Tillich, whom VP liked a lot - its a VP approved author. Maybe do a little reading and get some eduction from a source outside of TWI.
Quite straining at gnats and going round and round and round and round and putting words and ideas (so, are you saying...) in people's posts that they did not say.
Or are people really just this obtuse?
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Bumpy
Actually, it's Friday night and everyone is on drugs..."obtuse drugs"!, OK
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T-Bone
Ladies and gentle peoples. Me thinks presentation tis the problem. Be it known to all PFAL grads I am resorting to a semi-PFAL/TWI format for the remainder of this post in an attempt to confuse the unconfusable, refuse the unrefusable, and to use the unusable.
Welcome to the first session of Power for Overcoming the Power of the Power for Abundant Living Class. First of all, I would like to thank Pawtucket and the board of Grease Spotters for making it possible for me to share my heart on this post in this day and time and hour and format.
In this first session of Power for Overcoming the Power of the Power for Abundant Living Class I am going to show you one of the keys for overcoming the power of the PFAL class. I'm not going to show you all the keys – that is not the purpose of this post.
Have you ever wondered what is the greatest power available to the human mind? You ask the average PFAL grad in your community and you'll more than likely hear something about the law of believing.
[T-Bone stands up and walks over to a statuette of Elvis…licks lips…acts real natural] You know…after I first took the PFAL class I thought that was true. For years my wife and I were in TWI doing the things were thought would get the desired results. But somehow we lacked the intelligence…the reasoning…good ol' common sense if you please, to realize we were spinning our wheels.
Then one day a miracle happened. [pauses for effect] It had been a little while after I left TWI and was mulling over this problem – when it happened. It was an audible voice – as clear and distinct as if you were reading the words of this sentence out loud, right now [cue for the person running the class to lead every Grease Spotter into reading the last sentence out loud]. "Maybe this law of believing is a bunch of baloney." There…I said it! And when I opened my eyes, there was a baloney sandwich and Tea sitting in front of me. Tonto is so sweet - she had made that for me the night before…I was so busy thinking about this problem that I forgot to eat. And what color do you think the napkin was? White? Oh no it wasn't! It was fire engine red! We've been using leftover napkins from a Ho Ho Relo party.
As I ate my baloney sandwich and tea [sometimes when I'm very hungry I'll order a pack of gum] – I figured out that the greatest asset I have is the power to think. And the greatest secret at Way World today is that you can't go beyond what you're taught.
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WhiteDove
HEY ! You got some problem with White things there T-Bone?
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doojable
What do you think his sandwich looked like?
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T-Bone
The point of my referencing the passages was to show instances of calling on the name of the Lord – i.e. prayer – are applied to both…You still are confused on Trinitarian doctrine – I'm not saying God the Father and Jesus the Son are the SAME person. It does appear to be some overlapping roles, one facilitating the other…I don't know…I'm not God…I don't pretend to have the inside scoop on how God works.
I am amused at the nitpicking arguments you throw out. Not worth my time to respond. Except for this one point here – because it really exemplifies the PFAL-mindset. The John 14 passage I referred to, doesn't give any details on how this communion occurs. If you're so adamant on specificity you ought to find a passage that indicates the standard communication format God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit uses.
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Oakspear
T-Bone:
While I don't pretend to understand the ins and outs of trinitarian vs. unitarian theology, but many unitarians, either through ignorance or obstinance don't understand that trinitarians don't see The Father and The Son (or for that matter, the Holy Spirit) as identical, but as different personas, or aspects of one God. Many (not all) of the arguments that unitarians use focus on differences between The Father and The Son, assuming that it translates into a difference between God and Jesus.
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Lifted Up
I remember very well how VPW in JCING (no, I don't have the book and havent for over 27 years) referred to the definition of the Trinity as "...the father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and together, not exclusively, they form one God...that defines the doctrine of the trinity, and this I d not believe the Bible teaches."
What has always been interesting to me are all the references to the relationship between Jesus and God...as opposed to the relationship between Jesus and the Father. Jesus sitting on the right hand of God, praying to God...
One "incident" that will always remain in my mind is the time I heard taught, regarding "I and my father are One" as, "it doesn't mean that Jesus was God because jesus prayed to God". Someone here well versed in the Trinity, whether they believe it or not, can surely come up with an explanation of how Trinitarians don't see the verse that way. or how the dont see Jesus praying to God as a sign that Jesus is not God. After all, it's only faulty TWI logic...
Not quite. That explanation came...out of the blue...from the senior pastor of the United Methodist Church I was attending here for a while in the early 1980s (after my TWI time). It came during a church membership class, in a group of about ten. Never before or after did I hear anything from him about the issue, and i didnt press him on it. This senior pastor had been the chief pastor at the church for many years, and was nearing retirement.
Of course the idea of Jesus Christ not being God, among Christians, did not originate with VPW or JCING or TWI. When I forst became involved in TWI and hear about the teaching and the book, my reaction was like. so what's the big deal?
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T-Bone
Golly gee, I apologize for being remiss – all your questions are very important! I've got my top researcher handling them right now – even as we speak.
While intense research is being conducted, everyone have a great Labor Day weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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johniam
quote: There are going to be people who thought they knew him who will be told to depart....pure and simple...there are going to be people whom are of the flesh whom will have no inheritance in the kingdom of God....
There will be those who are of the spirit and will recieve an inheritance and ever lasting life...
God tells us clearly how to tell one from the other...where is the butchery?
********************************************************************************
You're referring to Matt 7:23 or Matt 25:41. This was before the day of Pentecost. Jesus Himself didn't know the mystery, that Jews and Gentiles would become one body of Christ. Jesus didn't yet know that He would have to die; He didn't find that out until John 13. The people who were going to have to depart, according to the standard as if Israel had accepted Jesus as the Christ, were the Pharisees, some of whom were born of the wrong seed. But Israel did not accept Him. That standard never got to be applied. God had to go to plan B.
Galatians 5 is wriitten to the church of the body, those born again of incorruptible seed. We have Christ in us. That's not an illusion, it's reality. We have God's nature within us. Did we do anything to deserve it? No. We're the same human schmucks that people were before Pentecost, but because of God's grace and the finished work of Jesus the Christ, we are privileged to have access to God's throne room, the oval office in the sky, baby!
WW says he doesn't know exactly what Galatians 5:21 means. I do. Compare with 1 Corinthians 3:11-17. We all have flesh and we all have holy spirit. Some of our works are gold, silver, and precious stones; some of our works are wood, hay, or stubble. The former gets you an inheritance; the latter does not. To "not have an inheritance in the Kingdom of God doesn't mean you lose eternal life, it means no reward for the bad works.
You're guaranteed life everlasting. The "butchery" is trying to apply law administration standards to the grace administration. It doesn't fit. The only way anyone would qualify for the kingdom of God that way is to be perfect. You don't have to believe this if you don't want to, but I believe it. If VP really did what he's accused of here, then it will definitely affect his inheritance, but he did good too. Do you really believe he wasn't even a Christian? Remember session 7? "Have you accepted Christ? Do you believe God raised him from the dead? Have you?" That was powerful. Why would a devil do that?
Doesn't make sense unless you allow that a Christian has 2 natures to juggle.
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Larry N Moore
Yea, and your point is? ;)
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waysider
Whatta ya say we cruise down a different street in the same neighborhood?
Dr. Wierwille taught that alcoholism is caused by a devil spirit called a "spirit of leviathan".
This is documentable.
So, here's that pesky dilemma, once again.
We either followed a man who hosted at least one devil spirit(spirit of leviathan),
or
He was wrong about what causes alcoholism.(again, the credibility issue)
Are there other options I'm not seeing here?
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skyrider
Your posts have a pattern of questions after questions. IMO, at times, you phrase the question in such a way as to denigrate the poster.....NOT to really add to the discussion.
If you didn't notice, I was "messing" with you......to show you how easy it is to DOMINATE a conversation by asking question after question and getting the poster "back on his heels." It's one effective way to CONTROL THE FLOW of the conversation by using well-placed questions. Heck, twi taught us corps this stuff in one of the christian communication classes.
But hey, Larry.....if you want to stay in the "question mode" aspect in these discussions, go for it. Sometimes rhetorical questions, like Jesus used, are a very good quality to allow the person to think and reflect......and honest, open questions are welcomed in most any discussion.
Have a good weekend.
:)
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