I dunno.. seems to me, once one learns how to ride a bike, one never forgets how. I think the little "stowry" sounds a little fishy. Straight handlebars, crooked.. the dynamics of riding a bicycle don't really change.. one would know the moment mounting the bike that the handlebars were "adjusted"..
how can one learn to ride a bike in the *wrong* manner? Either it works, or it doesn't.
what I think the little illustration did was to try to assert that learning to do something the RIGHT way, i.e. the vicster's way, can be "uncomfortable". Just let the "master" spiritually straighten things out for you..
"but don't blame me if you run into a telephone pole"
I never ran into a telephone pole. I did run into the back of a mail truck that was illegally parked in a bike lane once though. Didn't do much to the truck..
It IS a personal journey and there is no "one size fits all" solution. We are constantly adjusting things in our lives to make things for us, personally, go smoother. The minutiae is insignificant - it's the end result that matters.
How I have my kitchen organized may not be at all conducive to how you move around the kitchen. I could never be productive at work if my cube was organized like my co-workers. Why should our spiritual life be any different?
TWI was too caught up in straining gnats to actually help people.
I learned at my very first job that what works for one person might not work for everyone else. I shared a work space with another gal... she worked mornings and I worked evenings, and for a stretch of 2-3 hours in the middle we shared. She was my supervisor, and since she was already there when I would arrive, we would leave everything arranged "her" way as long as she was there working (and of course, I was trained with everything set up that way). But once I became fully aquainted with my duties, as soon as she would walk out th door I would rearrange the space, placing everything where I could most easily and most naturally get at things in a smoother pattern. And then I would put everything back the way it was before I left. I was far more efficient and effective doing it "my" way.
Later, it was the other way around where I was the supervisor/trainer and shared space with someone else, and I made sure to let them know they did not have to leave everything arranged "my" way when they were using the space. It seems a natural thing to understand... the details didn't matter, as long as we both got the job done properly.
I suspect the reason I was willing to put that knowlege aside in TWI was because we were talking about THE BIBLE, where you assume there is only one right way (well, I did because of my upbringing). I have since come to the conclusion that the Bible is full of examples of how, in order to achieve Godly results, different things were done. (well, I did see that even back then but it was put in the context of walking in revelation, and that was supposed to be done by our leadership and not us, and we all know how that went....)
Like the infamous red drapes, the snowy gaspumps, the Jain with the withered arm, or especially that "little boy" who got run over because his stupid mother didn't understand Wierwillian theology, this was just another B.S. story.
I haven't ridden a bike in years, but I have little doubt that I could ride one, whatever the current position of the handlebars might be. I don't think I ever really bought the story. Just thought the Vicster was trying to make a point, so I let it go. I realize NOW that we all cut him way too much slack. Live and learn I guess...
There's no "one size fits all" other than salvation by Jesus Christ.
Remember David choosing to do battle with Goliath with a slingshot and stones rather than the 'state of the art' armor Saul offered him? You gotta go with what works for YOU many times.
VP's analogy was comparing riding a bicycle with learning how to walk by the spirit of God rather than by the 5 senses that everybody is used to before salvation. There is a reason why bicycle handle bars are made straight in the factory.
I forgot about the bicycle and the handlebar thing. I was only 17 when I took "The Class" and still in my bike riding days.
I remember thinking gee, you'd have to be pretty stupid to ignore the fact that the bike was turning and maybe there was a problem (or problen as vic would say) with the handlebar alignment and just keep riding into a telephone pole. But who was I to say?
You want to know what happened to that little boy?
I'll tell you what happened to that little boy.
Ya see, people, he was born in India with a withered arm.
The only way he could ride a bicycle was if he twisted the handlebars sideways.
One night, some hooligan emerged from the local tavern and exclaimed, "I can whip any man in town!"
(For verily, he was filled with spirits.)
As luck would have it, there was not another soul in sight.
(They were all snowed in and didn't dare venture from the warmth and safety of their trailers.)
So instead, he brought his aggressions into manifestation by kicking the nearest object, which just happened to be that little boy's bicycle, thus throwing the handlebars into a state of serious misalignment.
The next morning, the little boy jumped on his bike and, as he sped away, he plunged head first into some snow covered gas pumps. Instantly a violent explosion ensued. Yes, that's right, the snow itself actually burst into flames and then exploded. (The gas pumps, ironically, were unscathed.)
His mother had him interred in a red draped coffin in honor of the boy's favorite stage play, Red's My Color, What's Yours? by Norman Wexler.
His mother was heard to say, "He was one mean, mean bicycle rider."
I dunno.. seems to me, once one learns how to ride a bike, one never forgets how. I think the little "stowry" sounds a little fishy. Straight handlebars, crooked.. the dynamics of riding a bicycle don't really change.. one would know the moment mounting the bike that the handlebars were "adjusted"..
how can one learn to ride a bike in the *wrong* manner? Either it works, or it doesn't.
what I think the little illustration did was to try to assert that learning to do something the RIGHT way, i.e. the vicster's way, can be "uncomfortable". Just let the "master" spiritually straighten things out for you..
"but don't blame me if you run into a telephone pole"
I never ran into a telephone pole. I did run into the back of a mail truck that was illegally parked in a bike lane once though. Didn't do much to the truck..
I remember that...The guy was more conerned over his bike than you.
I remember that...The guy was more conerned over his bike than you.
heheheh. I was wondering if you'd remember that..
*%$# mail truck.. right on Ashman Street, in the bike lane.. I'm pedalling back to the house.. just like any other day.. nothing was ever there before..
Probably shoulda gone to the emergency room..
poor dear wow brother.. I wonder how he's doing..
if you are reading dear "brother".. pm me and I'll see to it that you get the front forks of the bike replaced..
You want to know what happened to that little boy?
I'll tell you what happened to that little boy.
Ya see, people, he was born in India with a withered arm.
The only way he could ride a bicycle was if he twisted the handlebars sideways.
One night, some hooligan emerged from the local tavern and exclaimed, "I can whip any man in town!"
(For verily, he was filled with spirits.)
As luck would have it, there was not another soul in sight.
(They were all snowed in and didn't dare venture from the warmth and safety of their trailers.)
So instead, he brought his aggressions into manifestation by kicking the nearest object, which just happened to be that little boy's bicycle, thus throwing the handlebars into a state of serious misalignment.
The next morning, the little boy jumped on his bike and, as he sped away, he plunged head first into some snow covered gas pumps. Instantly a violent explosion ensued. Yes, that's right, the snow itself actually burst into flames and then exploded. (The gas pumps, ironically, were unscathed.)
His mother had him interred in a red draped coffin in honor of the boy's favorite stage play, Red's My Color, What's Yours? by Norman Wexler.
His mother was heard to say, "He was one mean, mean bicycle rider."
Like the infamous red drapes, the snowy gaspumps, the Jain with the withered arm, or especially that "little boy" who got run over because his stupid mother didn't understand Wierwillian theology, this was just another B.S. story.
I haven't ridden a bike in years, but I have little doubt that I could ride one, whatever the current position of the handlebars might be. I don't think I ever really bought the story. Just thought the Vicster was trying to make a point, so I let it go. I realize NOW that we all cut him way too much slack. Live and learn I guess...
One of the things that bothers me about the BS stories- especially ones like this one-
is that they were presented as FACTUAL-
in this case, vpw said "I was there and this is what I did."
Seeing this as just a made-up story- as, I think, we're all saying now-
is seeing vpw as a man who had no difficulty MAKING UP LIES and telling them as the truth.
It's one thing to hear a story and mistakenly pass it along as true.
(They were harder to verify before the internet, for one thing.)
However, to deliberately tell a false story (he knew he DIDN'T do this)
is something entirely different.
And, yes, it sprang from his specialty in Homiletics, or "making up little stories to use
Hey, I remember running into a car when I was about 10 - it was right outside somebody's house and the owner came rushing out of his house to inspect his car - and then inspect me - fortunately no damage to either. Never mind handlebars, I must have had my head on the wrong way to run into something stationary.
I forgot about the story-cyclist running into the telegraph pole - seems like he must have had his head on the wrong way also.
THW - yes, I used to job share, covered as a floater within a firm if someone was off sick or if someone had too much work - I was forever getting roasted just because I put something back *slightly* out of position. How picky can people get?
Belle - exactly. Not like we're all built the same externally or internally.
Yes, we are all going to the same place but we don't all start off from the same place. The poverty stricken and the rich don't have exactly the same journey, and the physically disabled and the wellbodied have different issues to deal with.
The African, the Indian, the Chinaman, the Australian Aborigine, the Columbian peasant, the Frenchman, the Brit and the Yank all have their different cultural biases, good things and bad, and instead of saying "YOU WILL DO IT THIS WAY" (as TWI tended to do, regardless of cultural differences), how much better would it have been to consider the good points in other cultures and what Biblical principles they illustrated.
Waysider - too much at this hour in the day!
(edited cos I could only see the last 10 posts and not others I wanted to reply to)
Great point twinky. TWI left no room for personal long suits, ones unique insight. We had to do it all their was and there was no room for what suited us.
I remember that the lc in Alabama would take the guys out fishing or watch ball games...(the women had to have classes on how to be better wives on their days) those were considered acceptable spiritual activities.
But for me to ride horses, or train dogs with a group was a waist of God`s time. Never mind the fact that most of the people I brought to fellowship and eventually enrolled in classes came from folks I met at these activities...
The one time my face was melted was over the whole *animal* thing. My heart certainly wasn`t *corpes* if I allowed these distractions...my time was God`s time now...
What a lot about handling people there is to be learned from handling animals. You can beat them into doing what you want, or you can be a "Horse Whisperer" and gentle them into doing what you want. In fact, I learned something of that at Gunny for Family Camps!
There is much to be learned from other cultures, such as care of elderly relatives, distribution of responsibilities within the family, sharing of common moneys. A lot of poorer countries or people living in remote areas in wealthier countries, can only get by with this sort of culture.
It seriously concerned me in rez that some tremendously skilled people were on staff doing quite menial tasks when surely their abilities could have been used in more worthwhile manner.
Gosh, can you imagine instead of the bicycle story, the riding of a horse had been chosen? Then we would be into riding astride or, for women, sidesaddle. And as to the horse having a mind of its own ... actually that would have been a better analogy altogether. Because if it's supposed to be a spiritual analogy, we would have the rider (holy spirit) directing the horse (the five senses) to be obedient to what was really required. Because it would be the goodness of God cajoling the animal to repentance, to a more worthy endeavor, to bring its body into subjection, to ... whatever you like.
But then you might have to be kind to people or have some real "people skills". You might need compassion and to see people as individual parts of the Body of Christ with individual needs, and not interchangeable parts of a (money-making) machine.
Instantly a violent explosion ensued. Yes, that's right, the snow itself actually burst into flames and then exploded. (The gas pumps, ironically, were unscathed.)
Hey Waysider, do you remember the old vicster saying that about snow too? I don't know if it was a Dramboui daze revelation, or the far rightist Bircher prophecy, but it was a classic!!! LOL!
According to Martindale's class, science has discovered that the "bonds" in snow, if broken apart, would release the energy of massive bombs... Uh-huh.
A perspective I hadn't considered which was PM'd to me and, with permission, I share here:
My interpretation of the crooked handle bar thing wasn't about doing things the right or wrong way - I thought it was about the willingness to change one's perspective. Sure, the crooked handle bars worked - but what was wrong with learning to ride with them straigtened out? I saw the post about the possible disability of the rider - but that's not what the context of the story was about (and I agree, it was a story - not reality).
It's like when I get an updated version of a computer program. It's a pain in the foot to learn it another way - but in the long run, there are improvements - better and easier ways to accomplish the same task. Other times, yes, the changes don't seem to work as well as the original program (like Vista vs Windows XP) - but going back isn't always an option. Would you want to go back to technology that was around 4 or 5 years ago? Not me! I like the older version of PrintShop more than the newer one. But I also haven't given it a chance because I really didn't want to change (I had to because of VISTA).
Maybe my interpretation of the bicycle story makes more sense to me. Maybe it saved me from being in the box that most people think it relates to. Don't know. But I know that whenever I think that I don't want to change, I think about the guy with the crooked handlebars.
Some things in PFAL weren't that awful - especially when they weren't that biblical. I still like the joke about the kid with the dust under the bed - my kids thought it was funny when they were little!
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Ham
I dunno.. seems to me, once one learns how to ride a bike, one never forgets how. I think the little "stowry" sounds a little fishy. Straight handlebars, crooked.. the dynamics of riding a bicycle don't really change.. one would know the moment mounting the bike that the handlebars were "adjusted"..
how can one learn to ride a bike in the *wrong* manner? Either it works, or it doesn't.
what I think the little illustration did was to try to assert that learning to do something the RIGHT way, i.e. the vicster's way, can be "uncomfortable". Just let the "master" spiritually straighten things out for you..
"but don't blame me if you run into a telephone pole"
I never ran into a telephone pole. I did run into the back of a mail truck that was illegally parked in a bike lane once though. Didn't do much to the truck..
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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Belle
Excellent observation, Twinky!
It IS a personal journey and there is no "one size fits all" solution. We are constantly adjusting things in our lives to make things for us, personally, go smoother. The minutiae is insignificant - it's the end result that matters.
How I have my kitchen organized may not be at all conducive to how you move around the kitchen. I could never be productive at work if my cube was organized like my co-workers. Why should our spiritual life be any different?
TWI was too caught up in straining gnats to actually help people.
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TheHighWay
I learned at my very first job that what works for one person might not work for everyone else. I shared a work space with another gal... she worked mornings and I worked evenings, and for a stretch of 2-3 hours in the middle we shared. She was my supervisor, and since she was already there when I would arrive, we would leave everything arranged "her" way as long as she was there working (and of course, I was trained with everything set up that way). But once I became fully aquainted with my duties, as soon as she would walk out th door I would rearrange the space, placing everything where I could most easily and most naturally get at things in a smoother pattern. And then I would put everything back the way it was before I left. I was far more efficient and effective doing it "my" way.
Later, it was the other way around where I was the supervisor/trainer and shared space with someone else, and I made sure to let them know they did not have to leave everything arranged "my" way when they were using the space. It seems a natural thing to understand... the details didn't matter, as long as we both got the job done properly.
I suspect the reason I was willing to put that knowlege aside in TWI was because we were talking about THE BIBLE, where you assume there is only one right way (well, I did because of my upbringing). I have since come to the conclusion that the Bible is full of examples of how, in order to achieve Godly results, different things were done. (well, I did see that even back then but it was put in the context of walking in revelation, and that was supposed to be done by our leadership and not us, and we all know how that went....)
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Eyesopen
I dont know about you'all but I have never fit into a "one-size fits all" anything!
But I do believe that my front wheel is going in the right direction.
That really is a great observation! Thanks.
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George Aar
I'm with the squirrel on this one.
Like the infamous red drapes, the snowy gaspumps, the Jain with the withered arm, or especially that "little boy" who got run over because his stupid mother didn't understand Wierwillian theology, this was just another B.S. story.
I haven't ridden a bike in years, but I have little doubt that I could ride one, whatever the current position of the handlebars might be. I don't think I ever really bought the story. Just thought the Vicster was trying to make a point, so I let it go. I realize NOW that we all cut him way too much slack. Live and learn I guess...
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johniam
There's no "one size fits all" other than salvation by Jesus Christ.
Remember David choosing to do battle with Goliath with a slingshot and stones rather than the 'state of the art' armor Saul offered him? You gotta go with what works for YOU many times.
VP's analogy was comparing riding a bicycle with learning how to walk by the spirit of God rather than by the 5 senses that everybody is used to before salvation. There is a reason why bicycle handle bars are made straight in the factory.
[edited to remove ad hominem argument]
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outintexas
I forgot about the bicycle and the handlebar thing. I was only 17 when I took "The Class" and still in my bike riding days.
I remember thinking gee, you'd have to be pretty stupid to ignore the fact that the bike was turning and maybe there was a problem (or problen as vic would say) with the handlebar alignment and just keep riding into a telephone pole. But who was I to say?
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waysider
You want to know what happened to that little boy?
I'll tell you what happened to that little boy.
Ya see, people, he was born in India with a withered arm.
The only way he could ride a bicycle was if he twisted the handlebars sideways.
One night, some hooligan emerged from the local tavern and exclaimed, "I can whip any man in town!"
(For verily, he was filled with spirits.)
As luck would have it, there was not another soul in sight.
(They were all snowed in and didn't dare venture from the warmth and safety of their trailers.)
So instead, he brought his aggressions into manifestation by kicking the nearest object, which just happened to be that little boy's bicycle, thus throwing the handlebars into a state of serious misalignment.
The next morning, the little boy jumped on his bike and, as he sped away, he plunged head first into some snow covered gas pumps. Instantly a violent explosion ensued. Yes, that's right, the snow itself actually burst into flames and then exploded. (The gas pumps, ironically, were unscathed.)
His mother had him interred in a red draped coffin in honor of the boy's favorite stage play, Red's My Color, What's Yours? by Norman Wexler.
His mother was heard to say, "He was one mean, mean bicycle rider."
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frank123lol
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now I see
LOL!!!!!
!!!! 
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excathedra
waysider, i just died
ohmy
no i mean REALLY
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T-Bone
Twinky – great point on one-size-fits-all-thinking.
Waysider – you’re a riot dude!....That’s what happens to a bicycle rider without a pedaler’s license.
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Ham
heheheh. I was wondering if you'd remember that..
*%$# mail truck.. right on Ashman Street, in the bike lane.. I'm pedalling back to the house.. just like any other day.. nothing was ever there before..
Probably shoulda gone to the emergency room..
poor dear wow brother.. I wonder how he's doing..
if you are reading dear "brother".. pm me and I'll see to it that you get the front forks of the bike replaced..
and the wheel..
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Eyesopen
Waysider-that was hysterical!!!
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WordWolf
I just have one question.
His mother,
whose wife will she be in the resurrection?
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WordWolf
One of the things that bothers me about the BS stories- especially ones like this one-
is that they were presented as FACTUAL-
in this case, vpw said "I was there and this is what I did."
Seeing this as just a made-up story- as, I think, we're all saying now-
is seeing vpw as a man who had no difficulty MAKING UP LIES and telling them as the truth.
It's one thing to hear a story and mistakenly pass it along as true.
(They were harder to verify before the internet, for one thing.)
However, to deliberately tell a false story (he knew he DIDN'T do this)
is something entirely different.
And, yes, it sprang from his specialty in Homiletics, or "making up little stories to use
as life-lessons".
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Twinky
Great posts, all.
Hey, I remember running into a car when I was about 10 - it was right outside somebody's house and the owner came rushing out of his house to inspect his car - and then inspect me - fortunately no damage to either. Never mind handlebars, I must have had my head on the wrong way to run into something stationary.
I forgot about the story-cyclist running into the telegraph pole - seems like he must have had his head on the wrong way also.
THW - yes, I used to job share, covered as a floater within a firm if someone was off sick or if someone had too much work - I was forever getting roasted just because I put something back *slightly* out of position. How picky can people get?
Belle - exactly. Not like we're all built the same externally or internally.
Yes, we are all going to the same place but we don't all start off from the same place. The poverty stricken and the rich don't have exactly the same journey, and the physically disabled and the wellbodied have different issues to deal with.
The African, the Indian, the Chinaman, the Australian Aborigine, the Columbian peasant, the Frenchman, the Brit and the Yank all have their different cultural biases, good things and bad, and instead of saying "YOU WILL DO IT THIS WAY" (as TWI tended to do, regardless of cultural differences), how much better would it have been to consider the good points in other cultures and what Biblical principles they illustrated.
Waysider - too much at this hour in the day!
(edited cos I could only see the last 10 posts and not others I wanted to reply to)
Edited by TwinkyLink to comment
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rascal
Great point twinky. TWI left no room for personal long suits, ones unique insight. We had to do it all their was and there was no room for what suited us.
I remember that the lc in Alabama would take the guys out fishing or watch ball games...(the women had to have classes on how to be better wives on their days) those were considered acceptable spiritual activities.
But for me to ride horses, or train dogs with a group was a waist of God`s time. Never mind the fact that most of the people I brought to fellowship and eventually enrolled in classes came from folks I met at these activities...
The one time my face was melted was over the whole *animal* thing. My heart certainly wasn`t *corpes* if I allowed these distractions...my time was God`s time now...
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Twinky
What a lot about handling people there is to be learned from handling animals. You can beat them into doing what you want, or you can be a "Horse Whisperer" and gentle them into doing what you want. In fact, I learned something of that at Gunny for Family Camps!
There is much to be learned from other cultures, such as care of elderly relatives, distribution of responsibilities within the family, sharing of common moneys. A lot of poorer countries or people living in remote areas in wealthier countries, can only get by with this sort of culture.
It seriously concerned me in rez that some tremendously skilled people were on staff doing quite menial tasks when surely their abilities could have been used in more worthwhile manner.
Gosh, can you imagine instead of the bicycle story, the riding of a horse had been chosen? Then we would be into riding astride or, for women, sidesaddle. And as to the horse having a mind of its own ... actually that would have been a better analogy altogether. Because if it's supposed to be a spiritual analogy, we would have the rider (holy spirit) directing the horse (the five senses) to be obedient to what was really required. Because it would be the goodness of God cajoling the animal to repentance, to a more worthy endeavor, to bring its body into subjection, to ... whatever you like.
But then you might have to be kind to people or have some real "people skills". You might need compassion and to see people as individual parts of the Body of Christ with individual needs, and not interchangeable parts of a (money-making) machine.
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now I see
Hey Waysider, do you remember the old vicster saying that about snow too? I don't know if it was a Dramboui daze revelation, or the far rightist Bircher prophecy, but it was a classic!!! LOL!
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TheHighWay
According to Martindale's class, science has discovered that the "bonds" in snow, if broken apart, would release the energy of massive bombs... Uh-huh.
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Tom Strange
ButnowIsee... I know this has been covered before butnowIforgot... is that a picture of Bush eating a chihuahua?
...or a small kitten?
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Belle
A perspective I hadn't considered which was PM'd to me and, with permission, I share here:
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