The basic Way course culminated with the students speaking in tongues, though Kalher claimed that "The secret, though no one would ever admit it, is you make it all up."
And it comes full circle. One of the comments comes from a person who I go to church with and we play music together. Little does he know that I spent almost 10 years in TWI. I'm fond of saying that you are only 5 degrees away...
The basic Way course culminated with the students speaking in tongues, though Kalher claimed that "The secret, though no one would ever admit it, is you make it all up." One of the many seemingly fragmented doctrines of the way is its obsession with speaking in tongues, gifts of the spirits, and something about "administrations," which I do not completely understand.
Karl is looking to promote a book, if this is the best he can come up with.
If he wants to comment on life at Hdqtrs, go for it. He is probably qualified to speak about that.
Maybe HE made up SIT while in twi, but don't lay that POS *generalization* on MY doorstep.
I spoke in tongues long before being associated with docvic and twi. With no *class* instructing me how.
And no --- it wasn't then, it isn't now, nor will it ever be *made up*.
Karl is looking to promote a book, if this is the best he can come up with.
If he wants to comment on life at Hdqtrs, go for it. He is probably qualified to speak about that.
Maybe HE made up SIT while in twi, but don't lay that POS *generalization* on MY doorstep.
I spoke in tongues long before being associated with docvic and twi. With no *class* instructing me how.
And no --- it wasn't then, it isn't now, nor will it ever be *made up*.
SIT may or may not have been made up. I still find myself speaking in tongues from time to time...but I honestly don't have a clue if there's anything spiritual about it. I do think it's possibly just a creative aspect of my brain playing with sounds and words. I used to make up languages and speak them as a child...I wasn't "born again" then....was I speaking in tongues anyhow? Was I just making up languages because I liked the way it sounded and it was fun? Who knows?
I always had a problem with the excellor sessions though...how could you increase your fluency in a language unknown to you by deliberately making alphabetical sounds...when you didn't even know the alphabet of your "tongue" to begin with? If it really was an inspired language to speak the "wonderful works of God" wouldn't forcing different sounds and words be counter-productive to the process?
But I digress...The point I wanted to make was that while SIT may or may not be "made up"...in my experience and apparently that of many other posters here over the years...The interpretation and prophecy of SIT was quite often made up. Usually it was a regurgitation of whatever the current teaching and buzz words of the day were.
I ALWAYS pre-thought something to say if called on...and I was praised for having such a long suit in interpretation and prophecy. Just my opinion, but I think interpretation and prophecy were usually made up.
Interesting (or absurd?) historical beliefs popular among Way members include their claim that George Washington was not actually the first U.S. President
i'm with you 2for!so damn phoney at times it made my skin crawl
alshanta my arse
Someone in our fellowship always started their SIT with Loshanta Malacasita etc, etc...it sounded the same every single time, no matter what the interpretation was...It's making my skin crawl thinking about it now.
Off topic, I know, but I thought I'd point out that Mr. Samuel Huntington served as President of the Continental Congress from 1779 to 1781, which was well beyond the one-year term limitation now mandated by the ratified Articles of Confederation.
Despite this Huntington was recognized as President of the United States in Congress Assembled during the ratification celebration of March 1781 and presided over the new Government until the election of President Thomas McKean.
There were nine more US Presidents who served under the Articles before George Washington’s inauguration in 1789 making him the eleventh (see http://www.uspresidency.com).
In and of itself, probably not much, except it illustrates how TWI was always trying to prove they had some golden nugget of information that the average Joe didn't.
Ron rightly points out that we had a government for years before the Constitution wa ratified and Washington was elected.
I believe, however, that the "Washington wasn't our first President" bit claimed that Washington was actually impersonated by an impostor from a secret society (the Masons, perhaps?).
Appreciate the historical perspective Ron G and all. Does anyone know when or where this was presented the first time? It's a new one to me but a lot of things are new to me. (fortunately in some cases, not so in others. Not sure where this one falls so I've pended for future pondering). Since this person did some checkin', I wondered who got the check on that one.
I'm not sure how much that piece of information would help anyone, but then this is the Way we're talking about so it's always interesting to get some insight into their little world view and see what's hot and what's not. If we tallied up all of the little bits and pieces of tangential type information that made it's way into Way teachings and classes it would probably make a nice little stack of stuff.
Off topic, I know, but I thought I'd point out that Mr. Samuel Huntington served as President of the Continental Congress from 1779 to 1781, which was well beyond the one-year term limitation now mandated by the ratified Articles of Confederation.
Despite this Huntington was recognized as President of the United States in Congress Assembled during the ratification celebration of March 1781 and presided over the new Government until the election of President Thomas McKean.
There were nine more US Presidents who served under the Articles before George Washington’s inauguration in 1789 making him the eleventh (see http://www.uspresidency.com).
Back to our regularly scheduled topic.
What's that got to do with TWI?
Those guys were just in charge of the continental congress, not real presidents. George Washington was the first president, because the role of president was defined by the U.S. Constitution, which comes long after the Articles of Confederation.
As to SIT, I do remember reading articles where it was researched. You could say that it was somewhat inconclusive and could be interpreted any number of ways.
Basically, for someone that believes in SIT as a supernatural thing, the data showing that some brain function stops that are normally present is a sign that it is the "spirit" causing it rather than the human brain. For those that believe SIT to be pure nonsense, it's a sign that people simply aren't thinking when they do it, and gibberish comes out as a result.
So at this point, there's nothing to conclusively define it. However, I tend to lean towards the gibberish side. I don't doubt that people really aren't faking it, but rather that it's something not fully understood, sort of like daydreaming.
Considering Wierwille's hedonistic lifestyle, it's difficult for me to believe that he led ANYONE into anything "spiritually supernatural"...his own tongue was bullsh *t...lo shanta kalimisita (over and over again)...and the circumstances behind his "being led into tongues" was laden with lies and sexism...snowstorm in Tulsa my foot.
I don't buy it...I will not deny the reality of speaking in tongues but Victor Cornfield Werewolf never did it...nor did he ever lead anyone into it...he was as phoney as a three dollar bill...and I don't doubt dmiller's experience for a moment...he's a REAL Christian...my "perception".
Those guys were just in charge of the continental congress, not real presidents. George Washington was the first president, because the role of president was defined by the U.S. Constitution, which comes long after the Articles of Confederation.
Good point, but it illustrates an orderly progession of goverment. The US presidency didn't occur in a vaccum.
I don't buy it...I will not deny the reality of speaking in tongues but Victor Cornfield Werewolf never did it...nor did he ever lead anyone into it...he was as phoney as a three dollar bill..
Hi Groucho, I'll give you the point of cornfield vic faking the speaking in tongues, but didn't he personally lead Jimmy Do*p and Steve Heefn*r into tongues in person in California? Wasn't that what turned them toward him in the first place?
I also think Piffle taught countless people to SIT, although I never did it at the end of the class, I did it at home afterward, on my own, and I feel the same as dmiller about it, I was 16 at the time, my tongue is still the same and as fluent as the first day I did it.
It makes me wonder about the cornbred huckster though, he certainly knew a money making machine when he saw it, it even had the appearance of the power of god.
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excathedra
Thanks. I got this far --
I can't agree with that.
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RumRunner
Pretty insightful for someone who has never really been "in." Thanks for posting that link
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T-Bone
Thanks for the link, Paw - he comes across as a very sharp & articulate fella.
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Tzaia
And it comes full circle. One of the comments comes from a person who I go to church with and we play music together. Little does he know that I spent almost 10 years in TWI. I'm fond of saying that you are only 5 degrees away...
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cheranne
Thanks,very intresting,the family tables thing of twi gave me the creeps!
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ChasUFarley
I'm impressed with the thoroughness and energy this guy put into his blog entry. The boy did his homework well.
I also noticed that he linked to this website too - good taste.
I'm curious how he got his hands on Jesus Christ Is Not God - does he say?
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dmiller
Karl is looking to promote a book, if this is the best he can come up with.
If he wants to comment on life at Hdqtrs, go for it. He is probably qualified to speak about that.
Maybe HE made up SIT while in twi, but don't lay that POS *generalization* on MY doorstep.
I spoke in tongues long before being associated with docvic and twi. With no *class* instructing me how.
And no --- it wasn't then, it isn't now, nor will it ever be *made up*.
Edited by dmillerLink to comment
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2fortheroad
SIT may or may not have been made up. I still find myself speaking in tongues from time to time...but I honestly don't have a clue if there's anything spiritual about it. I do think it's possibly just a creative aspect of my brain playing with sounds and words. I used to make up languages and speak them as a child...I wasn't "born again" then....was I speaking in tongues anyhow? Was I just making up languages because I liked the way it sounded and it was fun? Who knows?
I always had a problem with the excellor sessions though...how could you increase your fluency in a language unknown to you by deliberately making alphabetical sounds...when you didn't even know the alphabet of your "tongue" to begin with? If it really was an inspired language to speak the "wonderful works of God" wouldn't forcing different sounds and words be counter-productive to the process?
But I digress...The point I wanted to make was that while SIT may or may not be "made up"...in my experience and apparently that of many other posters here over the years...The interpretation and prophecy of SIT was quite often made up. Usually it was a regurgitation of whatever the current teaching and buzz words of the day were.
I ALWAYS pre-thought something to say if called on...and I was praised for having such a long suit in interpretation and prophecy. Just my opinion, but I think interpretation and prophecy were usually made up.
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coolchef
i'm with you 2for!so damn phoney at times it made my skin crawl
alshanta my arse
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frank123lol
Speaking in tounges,was is and will be for me,I still do,not alot
not for the reasons twi said it was,it is a personal "thing"
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socks
Can anyone elaborate on this?
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2fortheroad
Someone in our fellowship always started their SIT with Loshanta Malacasita etc, etc...it sounded the same every single time, no matter what the interpretation was...It's making my skin crawl thinking about it now.
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doojable
Yea.. I never heard that one either. :blink:
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potato
I was in for 20 years and never heard that one.
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Ron G.
Off topic, I know, but I thought I'd point out that Mr. Samuel Huntington served as President of the Continental Congress from 1779 to 1781, which was well beyond the one-year term limitation now mandated by the ratified Articles of Confederation.
Despite this Huntington was recognized as President of the United States in Congress Assembled during the ratification celebration of March 1781 and presided over the new Government until the election of President Thomas McKean.
There were nine more US Presidents who served under the Articles before George Washington’s inauguration in 1789 making him the eleventh (see http://www.uspresidency.com).
Back to our regularly scheduled topic.
What's that got to do with TWI?
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waysider
In and of itself, probably not much, except it illustrates how TWI was always trying to prove they had some golden nugget of information that the average Joe didn't.
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WordWolf
True.
Nice article. It's got a few details wrong, but for an outsider, it was pretty good.
I notice someone got to him with the inflated numbers, too.
The highest # twi ever claimed was 100,000, which was the number of people
who ever signed up for pfal.
As we all know, that's not the same as "the number of people who stayed around
for at least 3 months after pfal" or even "the number of people who finished
pfal", let alone "the number of people who attended Session 1."
When I took it, 8 people signed up (thus, all 8 count towards that total),
7 showed up for Session 12, and 3 of us finished the class, although all 3
of us did stay around. The 100,000 number was an inflation.
Someone somehow started floating an even bigger #, which this guy heard.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Ron rightly points out that we had a government for years before the Constitution wa ratified and Washington was elected.
I believe, however, that the "Washington wasn't our first President" bit claimed that Washington was actually impersonated by an impostor from a secret society (the Masons, perhaps?).
George
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Mike
Benjamin Franklin was the only President of the United States...
...who was NEVER President of the United States!
Firesign Theatre "Everything You Know Is Wrong" 1974
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socks
Appreciate the historical perspective Ron G and all. Does anyone know when or where this was presented the first time? It's a new one to me but a lot of things are new to me. (fortunately in some cases, not so in others. Not sure where this one falls so I've pended for future pondering). Since this person did some checkin', I wondered who got the check on that one.
I'm not sure how much that piece of information would help anyone, but then this is the Way we're talking about so it's always interesting to get some insight into their little world view and see what's hot and what's not. If we tallied up all of the little bits and pieces of tangential type information that made it's way into Way teachings and classes it would probably make a nice little stack of stuff.
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Mister P-Mosh
Those guys were just in charge of the continental congress, not real presidents. George Washington was the first president, because the role of president was defined by the U.S. Constitution, which comes long after the Articles of Confederation.
As to SIT, I do remember reading articles where it was researched. You could say that it was somewhat inconclusive and could be interpreted any number of ways.
Basically, for someone that believes in SIT as a supernatural thing, the data showing that some brain function stops that are normally present is a sign that it is the "spirit" causing it rather than the human brain. For those that believe SIT to be pure nonsense, it's a sign that people simply aren't thinking when they do it, and gibberish comes out as a result.
So at this point, there's nothing to conclusively define it. However, I tend to lean towards the gibberish side. I don't doubt that people really aren't faking it, but rather that it's something not fully understood, sort of like daydreaming.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Considering Wierwille's hedonistic lifestyle, it's difficult for me to believe that he led ANYONE into anything "spiritually supernatural"...his own tongue was bullsh *t...lo shanta kalimisita (over and over again)...and the circumstances behind his "being led into tongues" was laden with lies and sexism...snowstorm in Tulsa my foot.
I don't buy it...I will not deny the reality of speaking in tongues but Victor Cornfield Werewolf never did it...nor did he ever lead anyone into it...he was as phoney as a three dollar bill...and I don't doubt dmiller's experience for a moment...he's a REAL Christian...my "perception".
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Ron G.
Good point, but it illustrates an orderly progession of goverment. The US presidency didn't occur in a vaccum.
It's just a historical fact.
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now I see
Hi Groucho, I'll give you the point of cornfield vic faking the speaking in tongues, but didn't he personally lead Jimmy Do*p and Steve Heefn*r into tongues in person in California? Wasn't that what turned them toward him in the first place?
I also think Piffle taught countless people to SIT, although I never did it at the end of the class, I did it at home afterward, on my own, and I feel the same as dmiller about it, I was 16 at the time, my tongue is still the same and as fluent as the first day I did it.
It makes me wonder about the cornbred huckster though, he certainly knew a money making machine when he saw it, it even had the appearance of the power of god.
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